DTF Chat Thread v.BrexitMeansBrexit

[Adami]

Getting a lawyer to protect dad's money. We can't sell the house until it fully goes through probate.

So much red tape even though the will has my brother and I as the primary recipients.  And such a long process.

Protect it from whom?

When my grandparents died, one of my aunts was all ready to fight it in court to get more than everyone else. Luckily my grandparents saw that coming and put in a clause that said that if anyone contested the will, they'd be written out.

Well, Florida, we needed a lawyer because that's the law, but "protect" is just as likely from creditors.  We got claims in on the estate from all over, ranging from $500 to $22,000, and various points in between. I THOUGHT my dad planned rather well, and in hindsight, he did a B, B+.  There's always something to learn, though. 

I'd say that makes sense but I can't follow much of it. No legal mind here. But I do remember learning about the estate tax when my grandparents died. Turns out they don't care of the money is cash or in property. We lost a LOT because the government saw that my grandparents owned millions in properties, thus owed them half. So we had to sell everything (except our house) to pay off the taxes, most of it for not nearly what the worth was supposed to be according to the gov.

For all the criticism that Florida takes, they DO look after their own.  There is a provision in the Florida Constitution called the "Homestead Exemption" that CONSTITUTIONALLY keeps that property you live in free from creditors, full stop.  It doesn't apply to ALL property, but it prevents creditors from demanding the sale of the primary residence in order to cover outstanding claims.   But you need a lawyer to affect that protection under law from the courts.

Does that apply to something like the estate tax or just independent creditors? Cause, for my grandparents, there were no independent creditors, just the estate tax.

[Stadler]

Getting a lawyer to protect dad's money. We can't sell the house until it fully goes through probate.

So much red tape even though the will has my brother and I as the primary recipients.  And such a long process.

Protect it from whom?

When my grandparents died, one of my aunts was all ready to fight it in court to get more than everyone else. Luckily my grandparents saw that coming and put in a clause that said that if anyone contested the will, they'd be written out.

Well, Florida, we needed a lawyer because that's the law, but "protect" is just as likely from creditors.  We got claims in on the estate from all over, ranging from $500 to $22,000, and various points in between. I THOUGHT my dad planned rather well, and in hindsight, he did a B, B+.  There's always something to learn, though. 

I'd say that makes sense but I can't follow much of it. No legal mind here. But I do remember learning about the estate tax when my grandparents died. Turns out they don't care of the money is cash or in property. We lost a LOT because the government saw that my grandparents owned millions in properties, thus owed them half. So we had to sell everything (except our house) to pay off the taxes, most of it for not nearly what the worth was supposed to be according to the gov.

For all the criticism that Florida takes, they DO look after their own.  There is a provision in the Florida Constitution called the "Homestead Exemption" that CONSTITUTIONALLY keeps that property you live in free from creditors, full stop.  It doesn't apply to ALL property, but it prevents creditors from demanding the sale of the primary residence in order to cover outstanding claims.   But you need a lawyer to affect that protection under law from the courts.

Does that apply to something like the estate tax or just independent creditors? Cause, for my grandparents, there were no independent creditors, just the estate tax.

Estate tax too.

[Adami]

Woah. Ah well, even though I partially grew up in Florida, all of this happened in St. Louis.

Damn.

[Stadler]

But let's not lose the message moving forward:  estate planning is not for the faint of heart.   I know with my dad, I early on said "put me down, I'll handle it", and I will.  But I'm seriously thinking of who I can use that is NOT my wife or daughter, simply to spare them the ordeal.   I have an attorney friend I may ask.

I am also being maniacal in terms of making sure beneficiary forms are in place and up to date, and I am seriously considering a trust for my assets to facilitate non-probate transfer (Adami, that might have helped your family). I'm not really "wealthy" enough to traditionally consider a trust, but in terms of administration, or lack thereof, it's a valuable tool.

[Adami]

But let's not lose the message moving forward:  estate planning is not for the faint of heart.   I know with my dad, I early on said "put me down, I'll handle it", and I will.  But I'm seriously thinking of who I can use that is NOT my wife or daughter, simply to spare them the ordeal.   I have an attorney friend I may ask.

I am also being maniacal in terms of making sure beneficiary forms are in place and up to date, and I am seriously considering a trust for my assets to facilitate non-probate transfer (Adami, that might have helped your family). I'm not really "wealthy" enough to traditionally consider a trust, but in terms of administration, or lack thereof, it's a valuable tool.

Easy solution, leave everything to me.

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, Like Stads, we knew we needed help.  It's so many little loopholes that I don't have the time or energy to follow through so We'll pay for the help. 

[millahh]

When the time comes, I am *not* looking forward to dealing with this stuff.  My relationship with my parents is somewhere between strained and estranged, and I have a feeling everything will be a mess both from a logistics and drama standpoint. Like, I would be probably be willing to forego my share of anything just to not have to deal with any of it.
--

Having a bit of a do-over of Mother's Day here, as much body was trying to violently turn itself inside-out on the actual Mother's Day.  And of course Ivy comes down with a stomach bug this morning, and J may be getting it was well [/facepalm]...

[KevShmev]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look. 

[Adami]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

I honestly forgot he was alive.

[cramx3]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

I'm not sure I know who either of these two are (both names sound familiar, but I can't pin point who either are or known for).

[jingle.boy]

Conservative Religious fleece master.

Unabomber.

[cramx3]

Conservative Religious fleece master.

Unabomber.

Oh ok, two douches 

[hefdaddy42]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

It's a fine look.  Kaczynski ceased being relevant years ago.

I mean, I'm not one to speak ill of the dead in most circumstances, but were I to be, Pat Robertson would be high on my list, and I certainly have nothing GOOD to say about him.

[millahh]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

In fairness, with Kaczynski, evil was punished while he was alive. Robertson is only getting his punishment now.

[KevShmev]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

In fairness, with Kaczynski, evil was punished while he was alive. Robertson is only getting his punishment now.

How is Robertson getting his punishment now?  He is dead. 

[Stadler]

And they are different in other ways:  Kaczynski directly caused three people to die, as determined by a court of law, the standard we use in a country free of thought, speech and deed to determine such things.   Robertson...    He took some odious positions, positions I patently DO NOT agree with, but I'm not on board with this assumption that he's now somehow responsible for the things we're talking about in the various threads here.

Yet another example of the ridiculous proposition that "hate is bad, I hate hate, we need to get rid of all hate...well, expect when it's my hate. That hate is okay."

[millahh]

So....I see some just couldn't wait to speak ill of the dead when that was Pat Robertson (for whom I had zero liking) last week, but Ted Kaczynski dies days later and not a peep.  What a great look.

In fairness, with Kaczynski, evil was punished while he was alive. Robertson is only getting his punishment now.

How is Robertson getting his punishment now?  He is dead.

I was trying to be clever, insinuating that he is in hell.

[KevShmev]

And they are different in other ways:  Kaczynski directly caused three people to die, as determined by a court of law, the standard we use in a country free of thought, speech and deed to determine such things.   Robertson...    He took some odious positions, positions I patently DO NOT agree with, but I'm not on board with this assumption that he's now somehow responsible for the things we're talking about in the various threads here.

Yet another example of the ridiculous proposition that "hate is bad, I hate hate, we need to get rid of all hate...well, expect when it's my hate. That hate is okay."

Agreed.  I know that kind of thing is rampant on Twitter, but it's a bit sad to see it exist with some here as well. Not that I think "DT FORUMERS ARE THE BEST HUMANS ON THE PLANET," but to see some flaunt their hate so willingly, while appearing completely oblivious to it, is very unfortunate.

Full disclosure: I had a member of my extended family member totally go off about Robertson on FB (a reminder of why I rarely go there anymore) over the weekend, but didn't say a single word about Kaczynski, and I thought of that when reading the speaking ill of the dead thread in P/R.

[hefdaddy42]

Just trying to understand your point (and again, as someone who rarely if ever speaks ill of the dead):  It's OK if you speak ill of ALL of the bad dead guys?

[Adami]

I don't have hate in my heart (well....except for the French....bastards). So I have no feelings of any really toward Pat or Ted.

That said, Ted was universally despised and FAR removed from the public zeitgeist when he died. Speaking ill of Ted is preaching to the choir.

Pat, on the other hand, had millions upon millions of devoted fans and followers. He was not punished for anything he did (and you can disagree that he did anything wrong at all) and he didn't die in prison. So their deaths invoke different reactions in people.

Also, is it okay to speak ill of Ted? Cause hating murderers is an arbitrary line of hatred and other people have their own arbitrary lines.


Hating the French, on the other hand, is an objective measure.

[Stadler]

Just trying to understand your point (and again, as someone who rarely if ever speaks ill of the dead):  It's OK if you speak ill of ALL of the bad dead guys?

My point was about the "hate" to begin with.  I have a sort of philosophical problem with a lot of the dialogue in P/R that seems to isolate, alienate and marginalize a group of people for their hate... all by ANOTHER group of people that, lo and behold, have their own hate (and are so often either oblivious to it, or try to rationalize their own hate away).  I just find it hypocritical at worst and head-scratching at best.   What makes you so special that YOUR hate is okay and someone else's isn't?

(And INB4 the "Well, Pat Robertson was BAD!"  Maybe, maybe not, but regardless that assessment right now is being made by YOU the individual to justify your hate, and if you don't think the haters in P/R that are targeted and marginalized don't have the SAME rationalizations, you're not paying attention.  So who gets to decide whose rationalization is right?   And in terms of those subjected to that "hate", why do we expect that the reactions and consequences are any different?  If "hate" causes a gay kid to retreat, medicate, or otherwise suffer, wouldn't - shouldn't - we expect that those that are subject to the state-sanctioned hate have the same reactions?  How is that any good?)

EDIT:  Most of the "you's" are general and not to any specific person here.

[KevShmev]

Just trying to understand your point (and again, as someone who rarely if ever speaks ill of the dead):  It's OK if you speak ill of ALL of the bad dead guys?

No, that is not what I said or implied. I think I said in that thread in P/R (back before I requested to have my P/R posting privileges removed) that I am not a fan of trashing someone right after they die.  I was raised to be better than that.   

And I don't disagree with any of what was said about Robertson (I have come to really dislike organized religion, and I find people like him pretty vile), but if someone's grave was going to be pissed on last week, I would think the guy who killed people by mailing them bombs would have been first on the list.

[cramx3]

That said, Ted was universally despised and FAR removed from the public zeitgeist when he died. Speaking ill of Ted is preaching to the choir.

Pat, on the other hand, had millions upon millions of devoted fans and followers. He was not punished for anything he did (and you can disagree that he did anything wrong at all) and he didn't die in prison. So their deaths invoke different reactions in people.

This.

[KevShmev]

I get that, but did Robertson have any devoted fan or follower here? And, at that, an outspoken one?  I would get it if someone was talking him up, and some came back with, "No, actually, he was a piece of shit," but that doesn't appear to be what happened. 

[Adami]

I get that, but did Robertson have any devoted fan or follower here? And, at that, an outspoken one?  I would get it if someone was talking him up, and some came back with, "No, actually, he was a piece of shit," but that doesn't appear to be what happened.

I highly doubt Robertson has a supporter here, but I'm not sure that matters in general. It's the general response, the fact that it's DTF is irrelevant.

[hefdaddy42]

Just trying to understand your point (and again, as someone who rarely if ever speaks ill of the dead):  It's OK if you speak ill of ALL of the bad dead guys?

My point was about the "hate" to begin with.  I have a sort of philosophical problem with a lot of the dialogue in P/R that seems to isolate, alienate and marginalize a group of people for their hate... all by ANOTHER group of people that, lo and behold, have their own hate (and are so often either oblivious to it, or try to rationalize their own hate away).  I just find it hypocritical at worst and head-scratching at best.   What makes you so special that YOUR hate is okay and someone else's isn't?

(And INB4 the "Well, Pat Robertson was BAD!"  Maybe, maybe not, but regardless that assessment right now is being made by YOU the individual to justify your hate, and if you don't think the haters in P/R that are targeted and marginalized don't have the SAME rationalizations, you're not paying attention.  So who gets to decide whose rationalization is right?   And in terms of those subjected to that "hate", why do we expect that the reactions and consequences are any different?  If "hate" causes a gay kid to retreat, medicate, or otherwise suffer, wouldn't - shouldn't - we expect that those that are subject to the state-sanctioned hate have the same reactions?  How is that any good?)

EDIT:  Most of the "you's" are general and not to any specific person here.

Sorry, Stads.  I was asking Kev and wasn't clear.

[KevShmev]

I get that, but did Robertson have any devoted fan or follower here? And, at that, an outspoken one?  I would get it if someone was talking him up, and some came back with, "No, actually, he was a piece of shit," but that doesn't appear to be what happened.

I highly doubt Robertson has a supporter here, but I'm not sure that matters in general. It's the general response, the fact that it's DTF is irrelevant.

Well, if "we" want to turn the forum into a Twitter-type "hey, let's overreact to the worst things and people" atmosphere instead of adjusting to those around you, I suppose it is what it is.  Let the hate continue!!!

[Adami]

Alright?

I wasn't justifying any hate. Nor was I spewing any hate. I was just trying to provide a possible explanation as to why one person got 5 or so posts of hate and one person did not.

[KevShmev]

The hate comment was in reference to Bill's post about the people who proclaim to hate hate, yet are all about it when it is their hate.  I don't expect it to stop, so carry on.

[Adami]

The hate comment was in reference to Bill's post about the people who proclaim to hate hate, yet are all about it when it is their hate.  I don't expect it to stop, so carry on.

Humans have and will continue to be quite depressing. I feel ya.

[KevShmev]

The hate comment was in reference to Bill's post about the people who proclaim to hate hate, yet are all about it when it is their hate.  I don't expect it to stop, so carry on.

Humans have and will continue to be quite depressing. I feel ya.

 

And to be clear, my frustration really is in general, and not really directed at anyone specific here.  I am just so sick and tired of the negativity and division.

[Stadler]

The hate comment was in reference to Bill's post about the people who proclaim to hate hate, yet are all about it when it is their hate.  I don't expect it to stop, so carry on.

Humans have and will continue to be quite depressing. I feel ya.

 

And to be clear, my frustration really is in general, and not really directed at anyone specific here.  I am just so sick and tired of the negativity and division.

As am I. Kev, you don't post in P/R, but I don't know if you read there; I pretty much post once a day - minimum - about that divisiveness being THE primary problem facing the US right now.  I deeply believe it's driven by a deep, systemic insecurity, and that same insecurity is a contributor to our mass killing problem, our suicide problem and a host of other ills.  The political bickering is just one symptom of it.


I watched a 20/20 episode about the University of Idaho killings; they interviewed the parents of one of the girls - last name, Goncalves - and I finally had to fast forward over their parts.  EVERY interview was confrontational or self-affirming, but in a really awkward, off-putting way.   The police kept the investigation VERY quiet, and in hindsight, it was the right thing to do. They handled that investigation almost PERFECTLY, and had the suspect in their sights within days of the murder, even though they didn't arrest him till almost a month later.  In the intervening time, they kept collecting evidence, and they way they handled it, the suspect did several things that will now help implicate him in court.   Masterful. 

And the one thing they asked was, they would give info to the families a day or so before, but asked that they keep it quiet.  Not that family, though. They had to go public and declare how "brave" their daughter was, and that SHE alone had "defensive wounds" (contrary to some of the other evidence that was found).  That might compromise the case against this killer.   In each interview they were consistently puffing out their chest - "that guy picked the wrong family!" kind of stuff.  In the court room the dad was all "I kept staring at him, daring him to look me in the eye."   And I kept thinking, "Dude, this isn't about your masculinity.  Chill the fuck out.  I get it your daughter was brutally slaughtered at the doorstep of the prime of her life, but you HAVE to let the experts do what they do, and get the hell out of their way".  What was dad going to do? Fight the guy in court?  It just struck me as exceedingly "American", that "we've got to fight even to our detriment even if it jeopardizes all we claim to stand for". 

[KevShmev]

Thanks for that post, Bill.  It's heartening to see that others see it as well. 

Your Idaho story reminds me about the people who get fired because something happens at work and they feel the need to complain about it on Twitter or TikTok, and then get fired when their employer finds out about it.  Actions have consequences.  I feel like many have forgotten that or simply do not realize it. 

[TAC]

And the one thing they asked was, they would give info to the families a day or so before, but asked that they keep it quiet.  Not that family, though. They had to go public and declare how "brave" their daughter was, and that SHE alone had "defensive wounds" (contrary to some of the other evidence that was found).  That might compromise the case against this killer.   In each interview they were consistently puffing out their chest - "that guy picked the wrong family!" kind of stuff.  In the court room the dad was all "I kept staring at him, daring him to look me in the eye."   And I kept thinking, "Dude, this isn't about your masculinity.  Chill the fuck out.  I get it your daughter was brutally slaughtered at the doorstep of the prime of her life, but you HAVE to let the experts do what they do, and get the hell out of their way".  What was dad going to do? Fight the guy in court?  It just struck me as exceedingly "American", that "we've got to fight even to our detriment even if it jeopardizes all we claim to stand for".

I don't know, Bill. I totally get what you're saying and while we all try to imagine us being cool as a cucumber under those circumstances, having a child brutally murdered is a test to all we believe in life. I'd probably cut the guy a little slack.

[Stadler]

And the one thing they asked was, they would give info to the families a day or so before, but asked that they keep it quiet.  Not that family, though. They had to go public and declare how "brave" their daughter was, and that SHE alone had "defensive wounds" (contrary to some of the other evidence that was found).  That might compromise the case against this killer.   In each interview they were consistently puffing out their chest - "that guy picked the wrong family!" kind of stuff.  In the court room the dad was all "I kept staring at him, daring him to look me in the eye."   And I kept thinking, "Dude, this isn't about your masculinity.  Chill the fuck out.  I get it your daughter was brutally slaughtered at the doorstep of the prime of her life, but you HAVE to let the experts do what they do, and get the hell out of their way".  What was dad going to do? Fight the guy in court?  It just struck me as exceedingly "American", that "we've got to fight even to our detriment even if it jeopardizes all we claim to stand for".

I don't know, Bill. I totally get what you're saying and while we all try to imagine us being cool as a cucumber under those circumstances, having a child brutally murdered is a test to all we believe in life. I'd probably cut the guy a little slack.

I don't disagree with you on that; and I thought of that mightily while watching it and then again while posting it. And there's always the "TV" angle; those are the quotes that the producers of the show decided to air; who knows what else they said, right?  But none of the other parents were like that; one of the others was clearly a dear in headlights, a single dad who's daughter was unequivocally the best thing he's ever done in his life.

I opted to post it in part because of the same thing you wrote:  that was their truth under pressure.  That was what they opted for when they didn't know what to do.  If, in their grief, they opted to spew out about "n------s" and "f--s" and what not, we wouldn't give them a pass then.   I'm not sure we should give a pass here, at least not a full pass.  Maybe give them the pass individually, but use it as a teaching lesson for the rest of us. I don't know.