DTF Chat Thread v.BrexitMeansBrexit

[wolfking]

I was discussing something similar wiht my coworker and mentioned how I don't carry credit card debt and he coward a bit and said "oh, I do..." and I just wanted to shake him for stupidity.  I know everyone's got their issues and situations.  I can see someone going into credit card debt under emergency situations.  But this guy doesn't qualify.  I have no idea what he's spending money on, but I can't see a single reason for him to carry credit debt.  The sad thing is, I think it's really really normal for Americans to have credit card debt.  That's scary.  Those interests rates are insane and it's likely because they purchased something they can't afford and isn't a need.  Sad.  I'd be pissed paying $300 for something that costs $200 just because I could pay it over the course of a year instead at once.  Makes little sense to me.  I mean, I do have a car loan but it's low interest.  I could pay it off today but I don't think it makes much sense so I just pay a little extra each month.  Which then reminds me of people who buy nice car leases to look flashy but are just throwing money away.  I could go on and on about people's bad use of money. 

There's a question on okcupid (dating site I've used) about "would you date someone in considerable debt?"  My answer is hell no.  Unless it's medical/mortgage/business related/student debt and it's justified by a well thought out plan, fuck no.  Huge turn off to me for people who spend money to look like something they aren't meanwhile having demons in their closet.  Definitely not taking on that burden.

That first paragraph summed up everything I was saying.  Those people are all too common and it's happening more and more. 

In relation to your second point, I don't know how you would find out they are in considerable debt until your are quite deep into the relationship.  I would always pay if I took her out so I wouldn't know unless she came out and told me or things started getting serious.

[cramx3]

Yea, thats why I think its a good question for a dating site.  Get that over with quickly.

[wolfking]

Yea, thats why I think its a good question for a dating site.  Get that over with quickly.

Never used dating sites, but that question is on people's profiles or something!? wow haha.

In answer, if I knew they were badly in debt and poor with money, no fucking way.

[cramx3]

Well, you don't have to answer these questions but it matches people by % of compatibility based on how you answer questions.  I answered that for sure so I'll be more likely to match with people who also answered it similarly. In theory at least.

[wolfking]

Well, you don't have to answer these questions but it matches people by % of compatibility based on how you answer questions.  I answered that for sure so I'll be more likely to match with people who also answered it similarly. In theory at least.

Oh yeah, if the ability is there for sure.  But yeah, someone bad with money and in debt I would steer clear from.  I like my money way too much.

[Stadler]

I have no doubt that both of you already understand this and aren't including this in your analysis (which I largely agree with, by the way) but there ARE extenuating circumstances.  Things like "divorce" can throw this all into a tizzy.  I do understand all that you've both said, and I agree, but I know going through the end of a marriage that was failing, and a divorce that involved lawyers (though is amicable now) there were decisions made that, in the cold light of 20/20 hindsight, would be done differently today.   As for "taking that on", also agreed, but again... without airing someone's dirty laundry, I know someone who was in a marriage, in a financial situation that made a lot of sense in the family sense but maybe not in a single mom sense, and when he upped and left, she was holding the bag.   She was able to refinance and keep the house (an asset) but had to absorb some debt along the way.

Again, I know you guys know this, but I only write this to say that all debt isn't de facto bad, it's the decision-making that goes INTO the debt. 

[cramx3]

I know everyone's got their issues and situations. 

Yea, I took that into account and wasn't including legit reasons.  Something I actually am familiar with when I broke up with my fiance.  We owned a new house together, in both our names.  Also had a shared bank account and 3 pets, furniture... luckily no kids.  It got real messy and I paid her out of the home ownership, gave her all the furniture, and all 3 of our cats so I could keep the house.  I had under $1k in my bank account after the refinance/payout to x and an empty house besides my bed and TV. 

Now that I think about it, damn I came out of that really well 5 years later 

[wolfking]

I've seen that happen with a couple of women Stads.  The guy uses them, takes and blows all their money.  Divorce, the women refinances and takes back on years of debt.  Awful situation.  I definitely wasn't thinking about that sort of scenario.  The women I know both just keep on going and paying it down while working full time and supporting themselves day by day.  Must be harrowing and personally couldn't contrmplate being in a situation where I get screwed over and get taken 20 years back financially.  Awful.

[Evermind]

My mom turned 53 today so I've bought a box of Movenpick passion fruit/mango sorbet ice cream and champagne and we're viciously consuming it now. This is the best cheat day I've had for a while. This ice cream is seriously amazing.

[cramx3]

That's sweet of you 

Snowing here, new girl I've been seeing is coming over for the day/night and we'll be cooking and watching the Harry Potter movies today with some white claws. Should be a good day in 

[wolfking]

My mom turned 53 today so I've bought a box of Movenpick passion fruit/mango sorbet ice cream and champagne and we're viciously consuming it now. This is the best cheat day I've had for a while. This ice cream is seriously amazing.

I tried a tub of swiss choc Movenpick a few weeks ago and I'd say it could have been the best tub of ice cream I've ever eaten.  I didn't think anything could beat Ben and Jerrys but I was wrong.

[JayOctavarium]

So

My buddy's office really wants me to work there. They told him they'd be willing to, if I interview and get hired (no reason why I wouldn't get through the interview), assign my training at full time (which they don't normally do), and set my schedule me the same exact schedule as he so I can ride with him). I sent them an email to set up an interview, and am now composing an email to my boss basically giving them the heads up that I have an offer for a job, and would like to basically give them a chance to fix the issues we have with my schedule and what not, if they don't... See ya!

[jingle.boy]

So

My buddy's office really wants me to work there. They told him they'd be willing to, if I interview and get hired (no reason why I wouldn't get through the interview), assign my training at full time (which they don't normally do), and set my schedule me the same exact schedule as he so I can ride with him). I sent them an email to set up an interview, and am now composing an email to my boss basically giving them the heads up that I have an offer for a job, and would like to basically give them a chance to fix the issues we have with my schedule and what not, if they don't... See ya!

For starters, if that's your tactic, make sure this other job is 100% in the bag before sending that email to your current employer.

Secondly, why would you continue to work for a company that only values you as an employee if you threaten to leave them?  Accepting counter-offers is a terrible thing to do - it's a signal to your employer that you'll put up with them treating you like shit, and they only have to rectify things when it gets SO bad for you that you've gone to the trouble of securing work elsewhere.

[millahh]

So

My buddy's office really wants me to work there. They told him they'd be willing to, if I interview and get hired (no reason why I wouldn't get through the interview), assign my training at full time (which they don't normally do), and set my schedule me the same exact schedule as he so I can ride with him). I sent them an email to set up an interview, and am now composing an email to my boss basically giving them the heads up that I have an offer for a job, and would like to basically give them a chance to fix the issues we have with my schedule and what not, if they don't... See ya!

For starters, if that's your tactic, make sure this other job is 100% in the bag before sending that email to your current employer.

Secondly, why would you continue to work for a company that only values you as an employee if you threaten to leave them?  Accepting counter-offers is a terrible thing to do - it's a signal to your employer that you'll put up with them treating you like shit, and they only have to rectify things when it gets SO bad for you that you've gone to the trouble of securing work elsewhere.

It's also a signal that you're a flight risk, and that you might wind up leaving any time...so they will start working around you, and may eventually look for a way to get rid of you, because they don't feel they can rely on you.  It is extremely rare that accepting a counter-offer (whether in $ or in changed working environment) ever works out for the employee.  Leave or don't, because playing the middle is tough.  And since we are all repleacable, you're marking yourself as a priority to be replaced.  They showed you who they are...trying to use leverage will only get you what you want for a short period, until they've figured out how to move on from you.

[millahh]

Damn that sucks Matt, sorry.  Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise though.  Hang in there, you're a smart guy and will land on your feet even if your trajectory takes a bit of a turn.

Thanks Mark...I'm stepped back from the ledge a bit, and can see things a little more clearly now.  I'm still in a tougher spot than I originally thought I'd be, but I think I have some ways to make it work.  I'll be spending tomorrow reworking my CV...good times.

I also made a ceremonial change yesterday...I finished the last of my "career/work milestone" scotch" (Macallan 15), and got the "job hunting" scotch (Macallan Classic Cut).

[JayOctavarium]

So the email I sent was essentially me bringing up the issues I've been having. The schedule. The shifts. The fact that I have basically been told by the account manager that I can't call out sick as my schedule is "fluid". The fact that it's easier to talk to a brick wall than it is to talk to the account manager. I basically asked if we could discuss these issues and work towards getting me working the position I was told I'd be getting, and not just a glorified filler.

I didn't mention the potential job. And won't mention it until it's a solid offer.

I did get a call from one of the owners (the one that promised me all of this, who I've worked with for the last 7.5 years). The OTHER owner saw the email, saw the one thing about sick time, and then told the other that I was resigning due to the sick issue. Which was not the case. So he called me and asked about that specifically, saying they'll make it right and pay me out for the day I tried to call in sick and was denied. I asked if he had read the email yet. "Not yet I'll try to get to it asap and call you back"

We'll see what happens. I basically was asking to stop being used as a filler for endless graveyards. That was the main thing. That and scheduling me in a way where I have 6 hours of time home between shifts. Technically, from what I was promised, I should be making my own schedule (to a point). I'm so far from that right now.

They need me.. At least as a glorified filler (God knows the account manager isn't going to work shifts at 1:45a). Even if I were to tell them I'm looking, they would still be able to use me to a point until I'm gone. I'm trained at 6 accounts, and have never caused any issues. I show up to these shifts with a smile on my face and do the job 100%, when the next best they get from people is 75%. The amount of overtime it would cause to drop me completely would be insane. But that's also why I don't think things will change. They have a reliable Rover, who works his shifts even if he protests it.

[Stadler]

So

My buddy's office really wants me to work there. They told him they'd be willing to, if I interview and get hired (no reason why I wouldn't get through the interview), assign my training at full time (which they don't normally do), and set my schedule me the same exact schedule as he so I can ride with him). I sent them an email to set up an interview, and am now composing an email to my boss basically giving them the heads up that I have an offer for a job, and would like to basically give them a chance to fix the issues we have with my schedule and what not, if they don't... See ya!

For starters, if that's your tactic, make sure this other job is 100% in the bag before sending that email to your current employer.

Secondly, why would you continue to work for a company that only values you as an employee if you threaten to leave them?  Accepting counter-offers is a terrible thing to do - it's a signal to your employer that you'll put up with them treating you like shit, and they only have to rectify things when it gets SO bad for you that you've gone to the trouble of securing work elsewhere.

This last one; I'm not a fan of playing that card.   If they REALLY want you, and there's been some misunderstanding, and they're hip enough to that, they'll reach out and talk to you.  But not a fan of dangling the new offer; that's a card you can only play once, and there will always be that thought "why should we commit to Jay full on if he's always looking?"

[JayOctavarium]

I'm going to wait to see if they do anything before I play the "Other offer" card. Basically "Welp there hasn't been any change, and I have a job offer wanting me to start ASAP. Here is my 2 week notice. Because I am not an asshole"

[wolfking]

They need me..

Your irreplaceable?

[JayOctavarium]

They need me..

Your irreplaceable?

In the short term, yes. It takes a lot of time to train someone on 6 different accounts (or find someone willing to even) to fill all of the holes they've had me filling. It takes 3 shifts to train someone fresh, and 2 to train someone who knows the company's procedures and policies and just need to learn the individual properties. 

They can't even get one person hired for holes at one property, let alone hiring to fill the holes across multiple properties as I have been used to fill.

[wolfking]

They need me..

Your irreplaceable?

In the short term, yes. It takes a lot of time to train someone on 6 different accounts (or find someone willing to even) to fill all of the holes they've had me filling. It takes 3 shifts to train someone fresh, and 2 to train someone who knows the company's procedures and policies and just need to learn the individual properties. 

They can't even get one person hired for holes at one property, let alone hiring to fill the holes across multiple properties as I have been used to fill.

Yet, if you left, they would have no choice but to do that anyway.  If they are treating you like shit now, what makes you think they will change everything up to make you happy so you don't leave?  I haven't given a lot of thought know what's going on mate so dismiss me totally, but all I know is, I've seen people who think they are god's gift to their job be tossed away in a second without a second thought.

If you think that, that's cool, just don't let that type of mindset cloud your judgement.  I've thought that myself in my job, yet whether I think that or not, I would get replaced and the business would still run.  It may not run as efficiently in the short term, but it won't collapse if I walk out the door.

[JayOctavarium]

In other news, had a middle aged housewife and her really cute masseuse friend hitting on me at work a little bit ago. If I didn't feel like utter shit today (shoulda called out of work... ironically might call out for the shift I have to go back to tonight), it would have totally made my day

[axeman90210]

I'm in a kinda similar place with my job. Got my year end salary increase/bonus numbers and while they weren't as bad as I was expecting, that's only because my expectations were that low. I'm already 18 months into doing the job of a vice president even though I'm only an assistant vice president, and my boss told me that they'll be handing me additional responsibilities this year. My boss has acknowledged that I'm undercompensated for a couple years now, but at a company this big, he can't just rectify that on his own. He's always said that if I were to go out and get an offer from somewhere else that then he could make a business case to get something done to keep me. So I told him that I'm at the end of my patience and I'm going to start actively looking and now he wants a number from me. Been doing a bit of digging around on Glassdoor and Payscale over the weekend.

[millahh]

I'd never looked on Payscale before.  If that's to be believed, I'm, uhhh....radically underpaid.  Probably around 5th percentile.  I know that I'm somewhat underpaid (but accept that as a tradeoff for invaluable experience), but those numbers (especially at the high end) seem like a stretch.  I don't think I'm underpaid by ~$400K/yr.

[JayOctavarium]

Heard from my boss today. Shirt phone call. Basically he said he was sending me an email response but essentially they aren't going to be making much adjustments for me. Not even the biggest thing for me (graveyards). I'll see what the email says tomorrow, but I'm also looking forward to a response from this other company to set up an interview.

[axeman90210]

I'd never looked on Payscale before.  If that's to be believed, I'm, uhhh....radically underpaid.  Probably around 5th percentile.  I know that I'm somewhat underpaid (but accept that as a tradeoff for invaluable experience), but those numbers (especially at the high end) seem like a stretch.  I don't think I'm underpaid by ~$400K/yr.

Yeah, I don't know how much stock I'd put in the top end numbers, pretty easy for one outlier to skew things in some cases. My problem is that depending on whether I search for the title I have (AVP) or the title commensurate with the job I'm doing for them, particularly this upcoming year (VP) I'm either comfortably below the median or threatening to drop below the ass end of the whole spectrum.

[millahh]

I'd never looked on Payscale before.  If that's to be believed, I'm, uhhh....radically underpaid.  Probably around 5th percentile.  I know that I'm somewhat underpaid (but accept that as a tradeoff for invaluable experience), but those numbers (especially at the high end) seem like a stretch.  I don't think I'm underpaid by ~$400K/yr.

Yeah, I don't know how much stock I'd put in the top end numbers, pretty easy for one outlier to skew things in some cases. My problem is that depending on whether I search for the title I have (AVP) or the title commensurate with the job I'm doing for them, particularly this upcoming year (VP) I'm either comfortably below the median or threatening to drop below the ass end of the whole spectrum.

I struggled with the same.  And it's a little goofy about what titles it will accept.  It didn't like "Director", and tried to sub in things like Office Director, Policy Director, Operations Director...but was just fine with Exec Director (the problem being the my title is Director).  The numbers in my previous post were all for exec director (which is the role I've been at, even if it's not my title), I'm sure it's much worse taking the hit down to director.  But the numbers I've seen don;t make me think it's really worth my while to try to refine it down.

[JayOctavarium]

Received a hard response via email basically saying "deal with it".

And then had an extra overnight shift added to my weeks.


So... I have an interview a week from tomorrow. Let's see how this goes.

[millahh]

Received a hard response via email basically saying "deal with it".

And then had an extra overnight shift added to my weeks.


So... I have an interview a week from tomorrow. Let's see how this goes.

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=8401.0

 

Fuck 'em, go kick some ass in the interview at the (hopefully) new place.

[JayOctavarium]

God that thread is 11 years old? Wow time flies

[wolfking]

Received a hard response via email basically saying "deal with it".

And then had an extra overnight shift added to my weeks.


So... I have an interview a week from tomorrow. Let's see how this goes.

Take that as they don't think your as irreplaceable as you think you are mate.  Nevertheless, that's the way it is, good luck with the interview.

[Stadler]

THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NO REFLECTION ON JAY...

... but in my experience, NO ONE is as "irreplaceable" as they think.   If you think about it who really is?  GE replaced the irreplaceable Reg Jones... with Jack Welch.   The Yankees replaced Joe DiMaggio... with Mickey Mantle.   Van Halen replaced David Lee Roth... with Sammy Hagar.    I guess there are always exceptions, but I think it's hard to live your life by the exception.   

[Adami]

Stads is irreplaceable.

[JayOctavarium]

I mean... I never meant that I was irreplaceable, but it would be a pain in the ass to in the short term to find someone to deal with this. They have become BIG on cutting overtime. They're already understaffed and barely making it staffing wise with me here. Without me they are screwed unless they can hire people for these accounts I've been filling asap. Which isn't going to happen. It's already to the point where if I call in sick, they eat over and double time for the entire shift. They just don't have the staffing.

[jingle.boy]

Received a hard response via email basically saying "deal with it".

And then had an extra overnight shift added to my weeks.


So... I have an interview a week from tomorrow. Let's see how this goes.

Take that as they don't think your as irreplaceable as you think you are mate.  Nevertheless, that's the way it is, good luck with the interview.

Bingo!

NO ONE is as "irreplaceable" as they think.

Bingo #2.  Everyone needs to get their ego in check.  For 99.9% of employees, the company has been in existence for x number of years and did just fine with out you... and will continue to do just fine without you.