DTF Chat Thread v.BrexitMeansBrexit

[King Postwhore]

My dad lost his shit when the phone bill came in.  My cousin and I called WBCN all weekend asking them to play the new Van Halen song, Mean Street.

[TAC]

 

[Lonk]

And I would never say in my fogey voice that kids these days don't understand the concept of money. But when I look at college debt, and again, this isn't a statement on today's youth....you can either afford Boston College or you can't. Sure you can finance your education, but you're just screwing yourself.

But I think you are right. When I was growing up, I would ask my father for something that would cost $50 and I would get “maybe I’ll buy it” response and eventually I wouldn’t get it. I understood it was because money needed to be spent on more important things. Many kids now a day ask for things that go for $300 or more and throw a tantrum if they don’t get it.

I know this kid who is 22 years old, has never had a job and his mom is full of debt. Yet he spends $700+ or a new phone every year, plus the new Jordan’s every few months, plus new video games here and there.

[TAC]

I know this kid who is 22 years old, has never had a job and his mom is full of debt. Yet he spends $700+ or a new phone every year, plus the new Jordan’s every few months, plus new video games here and there.

That is very sad.

[wolfking]

I'm not sure you understand. Apps like venmo and paypal are tied to your bank account. It's no different at the end of the day as paying cash so you cant go in debt, you either have the money or you dont. Now some apps are like swiping a credit card but it's usually tied to a real credit card so it's no different than using a credit card. There's really no difference between the way you pay today vs a credit card.

Now having frivolous expenses and monthly occurring Bill's like cell phones and netflix and spotify, those are costs no one had back when I was a kid and almost seemed necessary by today's youth.

I'm guess I'm talking more in the sense of taking a percentage of what you make in a week for spending and sticking to it.  I understand what you mean mate, but as Tim said, it's control.  You can have all the apps in the word and methods to splurge money but if you have the smarts and control, you won't use them.  I was just basically saying stupid people are more impulsive and yes, IMO there is a tangibleness to having cash.  I truly think having it laid out in a physical form as oppsed to other methoda, you'd be inclinded to spend less.

You're right, if you have the money you have the money, but for years, whatever my income has been for the fortnight as I get paid fortnighly, I budget how much to save and how much to spend.  The money I spend on food, fuel, other necessities, I like to have as cash.  Once it starts running down, I think about what else I will need to buy and budget based on what I have left.  If I want something like a cd, I'll budget that in, not spend extra.

Obviously car serivces, things that come out monthly, emergency things are different but I like to budget as much as the weekly stuff as I can.  I think this is slightly missing in todays society.  Yes, I do agree the scoial media thing is factor come to think of it, plus the accessibility of basically buying what you want at a click of a button.  I understand what you are saying mate, I know you are still spending your money regardless of the method, I just think people don't think about it as much these days based on these methods.

So many of my younger staff make a stupid amount of money, who live at home and have no real expenses, I hear them talking about waiting for pay day as they only have $12 in their bank account.  Blows my mind.  I just think sometimes handing over cash instead of tapping with their phone, they may think twice if what they are buying they really need, but saying that with the youth of today, perhaps not.

[wolfking]

I know this kid who is 22 years old, has never had a job and his mom is full of debt. Yet he spends $700+ or a new phone every year, plus the new Jordan’s every few months, plus new video games here and there.

That is very sad.

It'd disgusting.

[wolfking]

And I would never say in my fogey voice that kids these days don't understand the concept of money.

I probably would.

[TAC]

 

Old man.

[wolfking]

Old man.

Totally.  As time goes by, I'm scaring myself more and more.   

[TAC]

35 is the new 55.

[Evermind]

In my experience, people paying with cash in grocery stores are often annoying. I see something like this all the time: the guy in front of me buys two packs of eggs and a beer for, say, $16 (just so I don't bother you with our currency) and when it's time to pay he says "cash" and there are two options:

1) he takes out his wallet and slowly goes "here's a $5, yeah, here's another $5, what was the amount again, another $5, oh and wait I've got some small change *starts rummaging in his pockets*, oh wait no there are only 75 cents, *gets the wallet out again*, yeah here's another five

2) he gives the cashier the largest fucking bill there is ($200 in this example, even though it doesn't exist), when asked if he has any smaller notes he would say "nope, you've got to give me the change" and now the whole line is waiting until the cashier either counts his change of $184 or even better, goes to other cashiers to see if they have it. Bonus points if this is in the morning and there are no $184 in the small local grocery store.

Now, I'm not saying that there's something wrong with paying cash, but if you do pay cash, maybe count the rough amount you'll have to pay before checkout (I do this even though I pay with a card), get the cash ready and available, do not use $100 bill on a $8 purchase, be mindful of the line behind you and don't be a selfish asshole.

That being said, I find paying with a card to be quicker and far more convenient. Not sure what's the problem with budgeting is, just allocate how much you can spend this day/week/weekend/fortnight/whatever, don't be an idiot and treat the money like money, whether it's cash or on your card.

[wolfking]

Is our time that precious and we are that important that we can't wait an extra few seconds?  Our eftpos machines always time out and sometimes takes longer than using cash at times anyway.

In relation to your last paragraph, I mean more it would be beneficial for people that can't budget and are impulsive people by nature.

[Evermind]

I can wait an extra few seconds, but it's still mildly irritating. In case of the second option, it's often a few minutes though.  I even had to go to another store once as the situation escalated.

I still think it's a common courtesy to use the appropriate bills. The amount is below $10? Use $10 and $20, not the $50 and $100, and so on (obviously depending on the store, use whatever you wish in a huge Wal-Mart or what do you guys have). My dad is one of the people who would buy a bottle of water in a small local shop and pay with a $100 bill. Fuck that.

I can see how paying with the card could make it worse to impulsive people with ordering online. I'm not sure how it translates to the general shopping, but that's probably because I don't have a credit card. Can't spend what I don't have.

[JayOctavarium]

My GF and I have decent amount of income that goes through PayPal (85% of her income and my side money I make when I house / dog sit).

She gets paid through Paypal? I don't understand.

So if you walk a dog, instead of someone writing you a check, they Paypal you the money? Is that linked to a (your) bank account?

It's mostly through a 3rd party company (Rover). She also does a lot of work (freelance advertising related) that pays via PayPal. It's linked to our bank account, but honestly she (and I to a point but) uses Paypal as her main bank account. We have Debit cards linked to them and everything. Their security is actually better than most banks.

[wolfking]

I can wait an extra few seconds, but it's still mildly irritating. In case of the second option, it's often a few minutes though.  I even had to go to another store once as the situation escalated.

I still think it's a common courtesy to use the appropriate bills. The amount is below $10? Use $10 and $20, not the $50 and $100, and so on (obviously depending on the store, use whatever you wish in a huge Wal-Mart or what do you guys have). My dad is one of the people who would buy a bottle of water in a small local shop and pay with a $100 bill. Fuck that.

I can see how paying with the card could make it worse to impulsive people with ordering online. I'm not sure how it translates to the general shopping, but that's probably because I don't have a credit card. Can't spend what I don't have.

I am 100% with being mindful on what notes to use.  People use fifties where I am for something under five bucks and it annoys the fuck out of me.  First thing in the morning too is the fucking kicker.  I always have the correct money ready to go or an appropriate note.  I do agree people fucking around at the checkout regardless is annoying.

No credit card for me also mate.  I just use a pre paid one so I can buy stuff online.

[Podaar]

1) he takes out his wallet and slowly goes "here's a $5, yeah, here's another $5, what was the amount again, another $5, oh and wait I've got some small change *starts rummaging in his pockets*, oh wait no there are only 75 cents, *gets the wallet out again*, yeah here's another five

I can count on this happening in front of me every time I go to the liquor store.    I've kinda gotten used to it.

I've found that paying by tapping with my iPhone to be the best thing ever!

[cramx3]

Podaar is like the modern old man, keto and paying with his iphone 

Also, people fucking around at the register is the worst.  Things like having more than 20 items in the 20 item and under line, or fucking around figuring out how to pay when its time to pay up (including writing a check, which has become much more rare but when you do see it, it's even more time consuming due to how rare it is and cashiers not knowing what to do).

[Stadler]

It is control, but it's also different. 

When I was 17, I had three (banking) things:  A check book, a pass book (it looked like a passport, but it was the register for my bank account) and whatever cash I had.  I had these expenses:  rent, food, gas, car insurance, electric, beer.   As long as the check book matched the pass book, I was good to go.   

When his mom (my wife) moved out to live with me, we went over this with my step son (a very smart, very reasonable young man; we did the same thing with my step daughter when she got married, and with my daughter when she went to college).   Asked him what "his expenses" are:  rent, food, gas, car insurance, car payment, electric, water, cable, internet, phone, Spotify, Netflix, Sirius, beer.  We walked through what all that "later" stuff added up to, and it's not at ALL insignificant. 

Anyone heard of Dave Ramsey?  In simple terms:  "take your paycheck, and put the cash in envelopes:  $20 for food, $100 for electric, $$75 for cable, etc. and pay those bills out of the envelope.   If you want to 'drink beer', put an envelope, but the trick is, don't drink more beer than there is cash in the envelope."   It was an almost impossible thing to do virtually (as in not tangibly).   It's impossible.   You're at the bar; "want another round?"  click click on the phone, "yeah there's $100 in my account; let's do it!".    Or, for my step son, "hey, a cool BMW M3 series engine is on Craigslist....  click click, there's $500 in my account, let's do it!" 

Honestly, it's not about "the kids these days" for me; I don't agree with him 100%, but I think TAC is generally right in that the kids today aren't dummies, but honestly, I don't think we as humans are wired for this.  This is not a circumstance or arrangement that any human in the history of the PLANET has ever had to contend with.  I was never really great with money, in the sense that I had that youthful invincibility ("I'm Stadler, I'll make more if I need it!") about the future,  but I find myself now struggling in terms of "does this make sense? Is this necessary?"    I'm like anyone else; I have my stresses and my pressure points, and I've been going through my CD collection, inputting it into Discogs, and it's actually, literally dizzying to see what I've spent on 4 3/4" silver disks.  Add social media to it, and all the rest...

[Podaar]

Podaar is like the modern old man, keto and paying with his iphone 

 

I still wear New Balance trainers and baggy Levi's so it kinda balances out.

[cramx3]

I still wear New Balance trainers and baggy Levi's so it kinda balances out.

35 is the new 55.

I'm 35 and wear New Balance.  TAC may be onto something 

Honestly though, I had been feeling older and older until I lost weight and been more active.  I feel younger today than I had for the last 5 years.  If any of you had seen me in the Epica mosh pit, you may agree

[Stadler]

Velcro?  Anyone for velcro?

[King Postwhore]

Podaar is like the modern old man, keto and paying with his iphone 

 

I still wear New Balance trainers and baggy Levi's so it kinda balances out.

As long as it's not the Velcro New Balance sneakers you are good.  LOL

Dammit Stadler!  Ninja'd!

[Lonk]

Velcro?  Anyone for velcro?

As long as it's not the Velcro New Balance sneakers you are good.  LOL

Dammit Stadler!  Ninja'd!

 

[JayOctavarium]

The last pair of New Balances I had were insanely comfortable. They were on my radar until Christmas when my GF bought me 4 pairs of Vans

[cramx3]

Ive been buying the same pair every other year for  3 cycles now and I'm due for a 4th cycle.  I wear them almost every day and they just don't get beat up easily.  It's only because I get them stained over time that I need to replace them.  So comfortable and good for my daily use as I don't have a typical desk job.  I then keep the replaced pair as my yardwork shoes and toss the older pair as by that point they are way too beat up.

[Lonk]

I haven't worn NB in a while. I've been exclusively using Skechers for the past 4-5 years now. For me, they are by far the most comfortable shoes I have ever worn. New Balance are not too far behind though.

[cramx3]

My dad was asking me why I don't like his sketchers, they were TOO soft, like I didn't feel any support.  I have some shitty ankles and I need support.  I'm sure sketchers have a pair that would do the trick but I havent looked into it.  Those shoes my dad had were really really comfy though, just not for me.

[Podaar]

I have some Sketchers golf shoes that are the second most comfy shoes I've ever owned...which is absolutely amazing for a waterproof golf shoe!

[wolfking]

It is control, but it's also different. 

When I was 17, I had three (banking) things:  A check book, a pass book (it looked like a passport, but it was the register for my bank account) and whatever cash I had.  I had these expenses:  rent, food, gas, car insurance, electric, beer.   As long as the check book matched the pass book, I was good to go.   

When his mom (my wife) moved out to live with me, we went over this with my step son (a very smart, very reasonable young man; we did the same thing with my step daughter when she got married, and with my daughter when she went to college).   Asked him what "his expenses" are:  rent, food, gas, car insurance, car payment, electric, water, cable, internet, phone, Spotify, Netflix, Sirius, beer.  We walked through what all that "later" stuff added up to, and it's not at ALL insignificant. 

Anyone heard of Dave Ramsey?  In simple terms:  "take your paycheck, and put the cash in envelopes:  $20 for food, $100 for electric, $$75 for cable, etc. and pay those bills out of the envelope.   If you want to 'drink beer', put an envelope, but the trick is, don't drink more beer than there is cash in the envelope."   It was an almost impossible thing to do virtually (as in not tangibly).   It's impossible.   You're at the bar; "want another round?"  click click on the phone, "yeah there's $100 in my account; let's do it!".    Or, for my step son, "hey, a cool BMW M3 series engine is on Craigslist....  click click, there's $500 in my account, let's do it!" 

Honestly, it's not about "the kids these days" for me; I don't agree with him 100%, but I think TAC is generally right in that the kids today aren't dummies, but honestly, I don't think we as humans are wired for this.  This is not a circumstance or arrangement that any human in the history of the PLANET has ever had to contend with.  I was never really great with money, in the sense that I had that youthful invincibility ("I'm Stadler, I'll make more if I need it!") about the future,  but I find myself now struggling in terms of "does this make sense? Is this necessary?"    I'm like anyone else; I have my stresses and my pressure points, and I've been going through my CD collection, inputting it into Discogs, and it's actually, literally dizzying to see what I've spent on 4 3/4" silver disks.  Add social media to it, and all the rest...

Thanks.  This is exactly the type of thing I was referring to.

[cramx3]

I know that's what you guys meant, but that type of mentality went out the door when credit cards became something everyone needed and I'm surprised you don't have one but maybe that's an Aussie thing?  Here in the states you have a credit score tied to you and it's important to have a good score to get good rates and approvals for lines of credit such as a mortgage, car loan, and so on. 

I never had a credit card until after college.  But I realized if I wanted to have better than a 600 credit score, I should get one and keep it in check (I'm at my all time high of 815 as of last week when I checked).  Which goes back to the mentality you guys are all talking about.  It's definitely harder to do that when you have a credit card vs cash in hand, but swapping the phone with a credit card doesn't change that mentality IMO.  Either way, I think it's harder today to keep yourself straight with your money than it was years ago, social media has made keeping up with the jones's even more of a thing plus there's so much temptation on spending money like things Stadler pointed out that didn't even exist before. 

I personally have a concert addiction that eats up all my spending money.  In return, I don't go out for nice dinners, to the movie, to sport games, buy many videos games (a few a year), I dont have netflix or any subscription service... I make my own sacrifices to do what I want to do.  I know I can't have it all, sadly not everyone feels that way and so many people are OK with credit card debt that it boggles my mind.

[Stadler]

There's a difference between spending the money you have on the things you've prioritized that you like, and spending money you don't have on such that you can't spend on things you've prioritized that you NEED.

[millahh]

Fuckity-fuck-fuck-fuck.

My program at work just got cancelled.  It was my "developmental" assignment,,to learn about and become credible in certain aspects of biotechnology.  But now it's getting canned when I've only had about nine months on the program, and before they key event (an FDA meeting) that I could wave around as credibility. And I gave up my role as the lead on one of our giant programs (with a nine figure budget) to take this assignment.  And given that we are getting bought...I figured they'd keep me on for another six months after the close, because of some key activities on the program.  Now? I'm probably disposable pretty quickly.  i'm not worried so much about $, as our severance package is generous, but I'm really worried about getting necessary experience; I'm really exposed right now.  I can hopefully get some sort of role on a related program, but they don't really need me, and I could still wind up on the block about six months sooner than i expected, without the experience I need to get the type of role I want...which means I won;t have any way to get that experience at all.  The trajectory of my career may have just gotten fucked in the ass.

[cramx3]

Damn that sucks Matt, sorry.  Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise though.  Hang in there, you're a smart guy and will land on your feet even if your trajectory takes a bit of a turn.

[wolfking]

There's a difference between spending the money you have on the things you've prioritized that you like, and spending money you don't have on such that you can't spend on things you've prioritized that you NEED.

Exactly.  It's not about the sake of spending and how you spend, it's the control and ability to prioritize and still get the things you need comfortably.  People don't want to make sacrifices these days, plus they simply lose track of spending the money they shouldn't be spending due to complusion and therefore can't properly pay their way on what they need to, leading to debt.  People need to just look at what they purchase and figure out how of their purchases they really need, or they simply wanted.

[cramx3]

I was discussing something similar wiht my coworker and mentioned how I don't carry credit card debt and he coward a bit and said "oh, I do..." and I just wanted to shake him for stupidity.  I know everyone's got their issues and situations.  I can see someone going into credit card debt under emergency situations.  But this guy doesn't qualify.  I have no idea what he's spending money on, but I can't see a single reason for him to carry credit debt.  The sad thing is, I think it's really really normal for Americans to have credit card debt.  That's scary.  Those interests rates are insane and it's likely because they purchased something they can't afford and isn't a need.  Sad.  I'd be pissed paying $300 for something that costs $200 just because I could pay it over the course of a year instead at once.  Makes little sense to me.  I mean, I do have a car loan but it's low interest.  I could pay it off today but I don't think it makes much sense so I just pay a little extra each month.  Which then reminds me of people who buy nice car leases to look flashy but are just throwing money away.  I could go on and on about people's bad use of money. 

There's a question on okcupid (dating site I've used) about "would you date someone in considerable debt?"  My answer is hell no.  Unless it's medical/mortgage/business related/student debt and it's justified by a well thought out plan, fuck no.  Huge turn off to me for people who spend money to look like something they aren't meanwhile having demons in their closet.  Definitely not taking on that burden.