What happened to JP's playing style?

[lucidlydreaming]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

[rab7]

.....have you not heard the outro to At Wit's End?

[lovethedrake]

There are a couple times I feel that way on this album but for the most part I feel like JP's solos are a pretty nice combination of well written/melodic and technical.   There is a ton of melody from JP on this album. 

The more I listen the more his solos have clicked for me as well.    I think JP is pretty much on fire on D/T.

[jakepriest]

I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Nah this album isn't Train of Thought.

[GasparXR]

JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.

[bosk1]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Not sure why you would think that since, as others have posted above, that is demonstrably false.  But if your intent is to come here to bash the members of the band, then I will point out that such conduct clearly violates forum rule #12, and if you continue, you will be shown the door.

[Dedalus]

I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Nah this album isn't Train of Thought.

This Dying Soul..... 

[lucidlydreaming]

JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.

His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).

[mikeyd23]

OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.

[Dream Team]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Let me guess - you have not listened to The Astonishing?

[lucidlydreaming]

OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.

And yet none of those melodies have stuck in my head.  Who knows why that is?  Perhaps my issue is more about the writing than the playing...Although bot kind of go hand in hand.

[Lonk]

In every album there’s at least one song/solo petrucci shows his melodic/emotional side. This album and TA have a few, DT12 had STR and the bigger picture, ADTOE had This is the Life, BAI.

[wolfking]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

I would have kind of agreed or at least seen where you are coming from this time last week.  Then I heard the new album.  JP has been pretty stale for a while, but with D/T, he's made me fall in love with him again as a fellow guitarist.  He has recaptured so much in this album from his glory days or guitar soloing.  Even solos like BAI didn't really knock me down when you compare it to something like TSCO. At Wit's End and Out of Reach in particular show he can still produce solos as good as anything on I&W up to Scenes.

As a guitarist myself, JP was losing touch with me and has done for a long while.  That's changed in a matter of days.  He's found something special again IMO.

[gabeh1018]

JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.

His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).

I couldn't agree more with the above post
I love JP
he's been my favorite guitarist for years now
I own 3 of his signature guitars
but ever since a Dramatic turn of events
like the previous member posted...
his tone, style, even technique seems different
Even when he writes new melodies,  something seems off to me
I don't get it
Glad I'm not the only one  who feels this way

[gmillerdrake]

The absurdity of the OP doesn’t even warrant a response actually.

[Progmetty]

Have you heard the middle section of FITL? folks posted good examples here but that FITL part is up there with the best heart felt work he's ever done. I've been comparing it to the middle section of Master of Puppets, I've never compared anything to Master of Puppets! heh

[TAC]

OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.

Or The Astonishing. Seems like a weird time to make this OP..

[rumborak]

I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.

The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on. But that's nitpicking.

[wolfking]

I think the OP should have been broken down a bit more and explained.  If he gave examples and perhaps explained himself a bit better, it might not seem so abrupt and offensive.  I think the wording is not right, but as I mentioned, in a way I kind of see what he is getting at.

Although the line 'I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.' is false and I don't agree with at all.  I think even though JP is one of the best in the world, as the years roll by he has gotten a little stale at times and a lot of his work and playing is not as memorable as some of the solos from Scenes and before.  When you play for years and years, you get to a point where you just sit and find your style and technique and you essentially stop learning and developing on your own.  I hear it often with guitarists that their earlier stuff is so inspired and memorable and as their career goes on they get into a bit of a niche where things aren't as creative.  Maybe it's workload, less effective writing, boredom or all of the above.

JP has never been a slouch but I feel his later career his stuff while amazing, it's not as memorable, again songwriting could have something to do with it.  He does love a shred, but I don't agree that he's never let that overtake a song that doesn't really need it.  If anything he did that more back in the day where he would fall into a shred pattern that is questionable, mainly live though.  This album however I feel he has revived a spark and magic with his playing, like he's learning and discovering new things altogether.  It's probably too hard to describe but his playing on this album is the best he's played since TOT, possibly Scenes IMO.  For me to say that, that's huge.

[wolfking]

I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.

The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on.

Pretty much what I think I'm getting at in a nutshell.

Speaking of jazz the solo in Room 137 is something I feel he hasn't really done in years.  The bluesy overtones are wonderful.

[bosk1]

I think the OP should have been broken down a bit more and explained.  If he gave examples and perhaps explained himself a bit better, it might not seem so abrupt and offensive. 

Exactly.

[wolfking]

Random, but the bend at 7:19 of At Wit's End is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry.  Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.

This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.

[bosk1]

Random, but the bend at 7:19 is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry.  Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.

This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.

  Are you talking about At Wit's End?  (that and PBD are the only songs that are long enough to have a "7:19")  I don't hear a bend there.  I hear vibratto, but I'm not sure he bends to that.  He does bend into the high note about 2 second later though.  Is that what you mean?

[Learning2Live]

Not to pick on the OP as he/she is entitled to their own opinion just like the rest of us, but it seems a little contradictory to make this statement but yet over in the Greatest Hit 2 thread, he/she comments that they are not really familiar with the post-MP material. I get the point the OP is trying to make and too feel to a small degree that there is 'something' different with the newer music (JP is still by far my favorite guitar player and always will be, not slogging on the guy by any means) - but seems hard to make that claim and yet admitting to not knowing the recent material to base that claim off of.

[wolfking]

Random, but the bend at 7:19 is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry.  Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.

This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.

  Are you talking about At Wit's End?  (that and PBD are the only songs that are long enough to have a "7:19")  I don't hear a bend there.  I hear vibratto, but I'm not sure he bends to that.  He does bend into the high note about 2 second later though.  Is that what you mean?

Yeah sorry, At Wit's End.  Maybe it's 7:20, it's an amazing bend which follows a 4 note run down and then some quick shred.  JP plays the note first with some stacato then bends the note in such a why like he's making the guitar cry.

[wolfking]

Not to pick on the OP as he/she is entitled to their own opinion just like the rest of us, but it seems a little contradictory to make this statement but yet over in the Greatest Hit 2 thread, he/she comments that they are not really familiar with the post-MP material. I get the point the OP is trying to make and too feel to a small degree that there is 'something' different with the newer music (JP is still by far my favorite guitar player and always will be, not slogging on the guy by any means) - but seems hard to make that claim and yet admitting to not knowing the recent material to base that claim off of.

Fair point.  Perhaps hence the one sentence OP.  Perhaps it couldn't be elaborated on, which in turn doesn't seem valid.

[pg1067]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Strange comments given your admission that you're not particularly familiar with DT's post-MP material.  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53476.msg2524721#msg2524721

[DT1138]

I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.

The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on.

Pretty much what I think I'm getting at in a nutshell.

Speaking of jazz the solo in Room 137 is something I feel he hasn't really done in years.  The bluesy overtones are wonderful.

My thoughts exactly.  That solo was awesome, took me by surprise.

Just a thought - could JP possibly not have enough time to spend on solos like he used to due to taking on more responsibility in working behind the scenes?  That might also explain changes to his style and/or the types of solos he is putting out these days. 

I love all of his solos regardless.

[lovethedrake]

His solos are awesome on this album and they were great on TA.   I don't understand this thread.

Does he shred too much sometimes?   Yes.  But thats been a thing since TOT.     

If he anything the melody writing is back in full force on the last 3 albums IMO.

[lucidlydreaming]

He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.

Strange comments given your admission that you're not particularly familiar with DT's post-MP material.  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53476.msg2524721#msg2524721

I keep tabs on the band. I've stopped buying the albums long ago, but I usually listen to every release to see if anything grabs me.  I liked a few songs here and there, but nothing really made me go back and want to hear more besides ONW and Illumination Theory (which is damn fantastic)...
I don't know most of the song titles, but I've listened to most of them a handful of times.

Dream Theater to me the past 12 years are sort of on the same boat as Metallica.  I'll always check out their new material to see if I like it. Probably on Spotify or Youtube when I get wind of new music.

I feel like the last time I really loved JP on a track was The Best of Times.  He didn't overplay. It was tasteful and restrained.  Not only that, it was memorable. 

[wolfking]

Just a thought - could JP possibly not have enough time to spend on solos like he used to due to taking on more responsibility in working behind the scenes?

Definitely.  That's what I meant when I used the term 'workload.'  More focus and responsibility on the final product you think in time would have to affect some subtleties in one's playing.

[erciccio]

Is this post a joke?

The interlude of Fall into the Light is not melodic?
All the solos of Barstool Warrior are not melodic?
The outro of at Wit's end is not melodic?
Out of reach?

And the outro solo of PBD, is that "just shredding"?

And, even though not melodic, ALL the solos in this album are very well crafted and thought (maybe just the middle solo of AWE is a bit over the line)

There are a couple of albums where it probably was "just shredding", but those albums are called Train of Thoughts and Systematic Chaos (only "melodic" solo there is the outro of TMOLS, but that is not even a real solo).


Even in Octavarium the only real "melodic" solo is the outro of the title track.

So, to sum up, the post is indeed a joke.

Btw- of course saying "Petrucci solos are horrible" is a legitimate opinion, but the initial statement of the post is wrong.

[Addy]

Uhmm... What? There are so many beautiful melodies on D/T as well as on other recent albums. Yes, his style evolved a bit. I think he focuses more on melody now than in the past. He may have decreased a bit in terms of precision (ToT era was his peak IMO), but still is one of the best out there.

I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes, he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.

The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on. But that's nitpicking.

The "jazzy" harmony, chromatics and melodic minor modes he used to incorporate were awesome. In terms of harmony, yes, he's doing simpler things now. A bit of a shame.

His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).

His sound evolved and switching from Ibanez to EBMM has very little to do with it. Early MM JP model and Ibanez JPM weren't much different in terms of construction and sound. Right now, yes, he uses i.e. different tonewoods and hotter pickups. But overall it's more about what he does now with FX and amp settings and the modern recording techniques and production style - more processing basically. I prefer his current tone, to be honest. BCSL and ADToE were amazing, so is D/T. Not a fan of the sound of the previous two releases.

[Architeuthis]

On the contrary, he's better than ever!
   Long live the KING OF STRINGS !!!   

[V_R11]

I'll second most of what has been stated above. I felt the "not memorable melodic lines" at first, but they just need a little time. I have JP's At Wit's End solo stuck in my head at this very moment. Sure, the solos on this album might not be something as big as, say Razor's Edge or TSCO, but there are great melodic lines

I do admit I'm a huge Petrucci-fangirl and find it hard to dislike him at any point BUT I was just thinking yesterday how I feel like he kept it pretty simple with this album and was so much more about melody than technique. It hasn't always been that way, but I honestly don't see how OP can make this kind of comment after the latest album

Also here's what JP himself has to say about musicality vs. speed: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_musicality_is_king_on_any_instrument_but_speed_is_still_fun.html