Author Topic: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?  (Read 9604 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #35 on: February 26, 2019, 08:07:28 AM »
Honestly I never really noticed him playing that differently live. Was this something he did just at non filmed shows?

I have an example, though it's more nitpicky and doesn't truly affect the flow of the song: compare the studio version and the Live at Budokan versions of the intro to As I Am. There's a clear development in the drum fill patterns in the studio version and, in the live version, MP plays the 4th and final fill third, inventing something else for the fourth and final fill live.

It doesn't change much, but it's just a recorded example of how he would go off-script at times if you were curious.

Do we know this is "off script"?   I've been burning my CDs to a harddrive (lossless) and I decided to burn my DVD audio as well, so for the past week or so I have been ass-deep in live Dream Theater from about 1992 to 2006 or so, and if "exactly like the record" is the standard, MP is not the only offender, and I would posit that he's not really the WORST offender.   If you watch the docs that seem to come with 90% of the live DVDs (they're gold, by the way, and I'm uisually not into those kinds of things) there is almost ALWAYS a clip of him at soundcheck going "hey; are you going to stick with the two beats of F# or do you think you're going to go for a beat and three quarters of Bb?"  Meaning, I think there's improv, but I think there's a fair amount of discussion about the possibilities within that improv. 

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that there was no "there" there, but I think the band was a lot more on the same page than history is trying to present at this point.   It might not have been sustainable, I grant you, but the idea that Portnoy was a loose cannon and driving the train at 165 mph to the cliff and they were saved by the bell on September 8th, 2010 and now everyone can breath a sigh of relief I don't think is accurate.

Me? I'm still first-day buying DT, and I'm going to see them this tour (again) because I love LaBrie, I love Petrucci, I love Rudess, and I love the music.  I do prefer the style and impact of Portnoy's drums, but that's a feel thing.  I don't go in for "better" or "worse" (I don't think it's debatable that Bruce Kulick is a more technically accomplished player than Ace Frehley, but Ace is the original and that's the essence of Kiss to a VAST majority of people) but for how I feel listening.   I've written this before but I feel like Mike P's talent is taking something that is in 15/13 time and making it groove and flow like it's 4/4, and Mike M's talent is taking something in 7/8 time and making it feel like it's 15/13.   It all depends on what you're in for.  I prefer the former. 

EDIT:  To be fair, though, I do think there is something to the idea that Mike started to view DT as "his" Anthrax (i.e. he's the bandleader, he does the lyrics, the backing vox, the this, the that, and he needed to be seen as a hip metal drummer ala his friend Benante).   I think he started to play out a little more and the metal side took over; whereas I&W and Metropolis were awesome amalgamations of all things DT, almost uncatagorizable, as we get past 6DOIT, it becomes "the metal album", the "U2 album", the "this album", the "that album".   The approach changed, even the look changed (as it did for all the members; they never looked like an over-the-hill biker gang back in 2007; now all the promo pictures look almost identically faded out and they're all in black looking like they have beef to settle with SAMCRO)...  I'm looking forward to hearing the new album (I don't do snippets anymore) because all I'm hearing is that it might be a step back to that more mish-mash approach, which I'm all in on.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:15:32 AM by Stadler »

Offline rumborak

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #36 on: February 26, 2019, 08:23:01 AM »
You haven't heard the new album?
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #37 on: February 26, 2019, 08:27:37 AM »
Actually a lot of FII.

LITS, 4:08-4:30. Absolutely unbelievable.

Yep, that is good stuff.

And in the annals of drum fills you air drum every single time, I would submit the drum fill between the bolded words in the line, "Helps us to understand the turbulence deep inside," from Losing Time/Grand Finale (from 6DOIT).  Unless I am driving and that hits when I am turning or unable to do it for fear of crashing :lol, I cannot not air drum that fill.  So simple, yet so good.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2019, 08:29:44 AM »
Maybe in your circle of friends, but in mine the opening of 6:00 is traded as one of *the* MP moments.

Yes, but that is part of the flash. Do you know somebody who would point to the brilliance of the drumming in The Mirror? Or Scarred?


Speaking of which, I got the impression the opening of PBD was in a similar vein to the 6:00 opening, but it also shows the difference between MP and MM.

They are both drum solo intros, but the feel of the songs themselves are very different, so how could they be comparable? Can you do a groovy drum intro ala-6:00 given the music of PBD? What is more comparable is the drum intro of Paralyzed, which if the band only decided to start with instead of the riff would be similar to what they were going for with 6:00.

Offline porcacultor

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2019, 08:32:40 AM »
Honestly I never really noticed him playing that differently live. Was this something he did just at non filmed shows?

I have an example, though it's more nitpicky and doesn't truly affect the flow of the song: compare the studio version and the Live at Budokan versions of the intro to As I Am. There's a clear development in the drum fill patterns in the studio version and, in the live version, MP plays the 4th and final fill third, inventing something else for the fourth and final fill live.

It doesn't change much, but it's just a recorded example of how he would go off-script at times if you were curious.

Do we know this is "off script"?   I've been burning my CDs to a harddrive (lossless) and I decided to burn my DVD audio as well, so for the past week or so I have been ass-deep in live Dream Theater from about 1992 to 2006 or so, and if "exactly like the record" is the standard, MP is not the only offender, and I would posit that he's not really the WORST offender.   If you watch the docs that seem to come with 90% of the live DVDs (they're gold, by the way, and I'm uisually not into those kinds of things) there is almost ALWAYS a clip of him at soundcheck going "hey; are you going to stick with the two beats of F# or do you think you're going to go for a beat and three quarters of Bb?"  Meaning, I think there's improv, but I think there's a fair amount of discussion about the possibilities within that improv. 

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that there was no "there" there, but I think the band was a lot more on the same page than history is trying to present at this point.   It might not have been sustainable, I grant you, but the idea that Portnoy was a loose cannon and driving the train at 165 mph to the cliff and they were saved by the bell on September 8th, 2010 and now everyone can breath a sigh of relief I don't think is accurate.

Me? I'm still first-day buying DT, and I'm going to see them this tour (again) because I love LaBrie, I love Petrucci, I love Rudess, and I love the music.  I do prefer the style and impact of Portnoy's drums, but that's a feel thing.  I don't go in for "better" or "worse" (I don't think it's debatable that Bruce Kulick is a more technically accomplished player than Ace Frehley, but Ace is the original and that's the essence of Kiss to a VAST majority of people) but for how I feel listening.   I've written this before but I feel like Mike P's talent is taking something that is in 15/13 time and making it groove and flow like it's 4/4, and Mike M's talent is taking something in 7/8 time and making it feel like it's 15/13.   It all depends on what you're in for.  I prefer the former. 

EDIT:  To be fair, though, I do think there is something to the idea that Mike started to view DT as "his" Anthrax (i.e. he's the bandleader, he does the lyrics, the backing vox, the this, the that, and he needed to be seen as a hip metal drummer ala his friend Benante).   I think he started to play out a little more and the metal side took over; whereas I&W and Metropolis were awesome amalgamations of all things DT, almost uncatagorizable, as we get past 6DOIT, it becomes "the metal album", the "U2 album", the "this album", the "that album".   The approach changed, even the look changed (as it did for all the members; they never looked like an over-the-hill biker gang back in 2007; now all the promo pictures look almost identically faded out and they're all in black looking like they have beef to settle with SAMCRO)...  I'm looking forward to hearing the new album (I don't do snippets anymore) because all I'm hearing is that it might be a step back to that more mish-mash approach, which I'm all in on.

I've been duly corrected by fellow board members that this was an honest flub by MP and not an intentional rearrangement. Just for the sake of clarity!

Offline genome

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2019, 08:48:35 AM »
Actually a lot of FII.

LITS, 4:08-4:30. Absolutely unbelievable.

Yep, that is good stuff.

And in the annals of drum fills you air drum every single time, I would submit the drum fill between the bolded words in the line, "Helps us to understand the turbulence deep inside," from Losing Time/Grand Finale (from 6DOIT).  Unless I am driving and that hits when I am turning or unable to do it for fear of crashing :lol, I cannot not air drum that fill.  So simple, yet so good.

The reverse drum fill in The Glass Prison for me. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O__pcncOpNw

1:24

Offline bill1971

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2019, 08:55:09 AM »
I never minded MP's "overplaying" it's when he started to become stale and seem to mail it in. Honestly in my opinion was only his last 2 albums, even at that I loved the beginning of Systematic Chaos. For me it was his ever increasing "vocals" and his look at me attitude. But from I and W for a very long time he was in my top 5 favorite drummers, second only to Peart and Bruford.

Offline Zook

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2019, 09:06:28 AM »
You haven't heard the new album?

I have several times, but as crazy as Mike is on the album, it never strikes me as overplaying. There are fills, but there aren't FILLS.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2019, 09:17:15 AM »
You haven't heard the new album?

I have several times, but as crazy as Mike is on the album, it never strikes me as overplaying. There are fills, but there aren't FILLS.

I think rumbo was responding to Stadler. ;)

Offline rumborak

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2019, 09:32:55 AM »
Speaking of which, I got the impression the opening of PBD was in a similar vein to the 6:00 opening, but it also shows the difference between MP and MM.

They are both drum solo intros, but the feel of the songs themselves are very different, so how could they be comparable? Can you do a groovy drum intro ala-6:00 given the music of PBD? What is more comparable is the drum intro of Paralyzed, which if the band only decided to start with instead of the riff would be similar to what they were going for with 6:00.

The two are obviously not very similar in style, but rather in function in the song, as the buildup to the song where the sole focus is on the drums. I just think it displays how MP and MM approach something like that differently. MP chose a groovy run, whereas MM went for something non-groovy but incredibly hard to play. (that missed hihat hit is driving me nuts though)
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Offline utopiarun

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2019, 09:51:00 AM »
I admittingly know diddly squat technically about drumming. So if Mangini is doing incredibly difficult stuff, I'm not really noticing it. Portnoy's fills (as predictable as they have become) still float my boat and I have listened to parts of D/T and said "damn there should be a fill in there" when Mangini is playing it straight. Not nearly as much air drumming to MM as MP.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2019, 10:00:12 AM »
You haven't heard the new album?

Nope; my Amazon purchase was inexplicably delayed.  The only thing I heard so far was that short video with what seemed to me to be a montage of bits from the album.  I loved it, but I put no stock in it, because I have yet to hear a snippet that really accurately presents an albums (correction:  there was one; the snippet I heard for DTP's Transcendence).   I hated the snippets from ADOTE (probably my favorite MM-era DT album) and my classic go-to is HATING "Tattoo" from Van Halen's ADKOT, which later turned out to be my album of the year for 2012 (and I LOVE Tattoo in the context of the album). 

Offline rumborak

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2019, 10:09:39 AM »
I admittingly know diddly squat technically about drumming. So if Mangini is doing incredibly difficult stuff, I'm not really noticing it.

The beginning of PBD is crazy difficult to play, and I think it's fair to say that only MM can play it like that, because (I believe) he hits the hihat with one hand only.

You haven't heard the new album?

Nope; my Amazon purchase was inexplicably delayed.

But ... that's crazy! It's like not opening the presents on Christmas Day saying "I'm kinda busy, I'll get to it". I mean, you clearly purchased the album, so it's not like you would be stealing it, so why wouldn't you grab it from one of the myriad places in the meantime so you can listen to it?
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Offline BeatriceNB

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2019, 10:30:07 AM »
OK, I respect MP 100% for what he did to Prog Metal (and he inspired one of my fav drummers), but, I said sometimes, his only good performance, to me, is WDADU, and the only time he sounded good (hate his overly loud drums).

The problem with overplaying is not overplaying per se, is that MP knows like 5 or 7 fills, and uses them everywhere. To the point I could make a MP drums generator sampling the BC&SL stems. Just look at Blake Richardson: dude adds tons of fills and syncopated lines, but his style is so diverse it feels fresh every time. Mangini did the same exact thing on TA: syncopated lines, blast beats, Pop 4/4 (ANB), odd time signatures, and even Broadway musical drum fills (Wicked comes to mind).

I understand why people prefer MP, but, I have never been a fan of his "clown+llama" style, not at all. Since MM joined the band, they seem to have a chill vibe; man, they're old, they can't follow the Rock & Roll life forever (that only works for The Rolling Stones, haha).

Mangini is superhuman, not only with his speed, the band chose him for a reason. Marco Minnemann is also one of my favourite drummers, but, his style doesn't fit in DT at all; he's improvisation-friendly and you can see that, and DT is like the opposite of that nowadays.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2019, 11:03:06 AM »
I admittingly know diddly squat technically about drumming. So if Mangini is doing incredibly difficult stuff, I'm not really noticing it.

The beginning of PBD is crazy difficult to play, and I think it's fair to say that only MM can play it like that, because (I believe) he hits the hihat with one hand only.

You haven't heard the new album?

Nope; my Amazon purchase was inexplicably delayed.

But ... that's crazy! It's like not opening the presents on Christmas Day saying "I'm kinda busy, I'll get to it". I mean, you clearly purchased the album, so it's not like you would be stealing it, so why wouldn't you grab it from one of the myriad places in the meantime so you can listen to it?

In that sense, I have it; I have access to an immediate download when I buy.   I'm just not set up that way, YET.   99% of my listening - literally, 99% - is on CD in the car, or on my home system.   Part of the burning I've been talking about is to set up my system so that it can be virtual and do what you're suggesting.

But I'm old, so baby steps.  :) 

Offline devieira73

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2019, 11:33:19 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
I believe it's note per note drum cover of PBD :tup
I'm always amazed how this youtube musicians can learn to play these difficult songs apparently overnight.
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Offline Pettor

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2019, 12:40:07 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
I believe it's note per note drum cover of PBD :tup
I'm always amazed how this youtube musicians can learn to play these difficult songs apparently overnight.

What the hell! That looks insanely hard and he did it 2 days after release. I was still trying to understand the song after 2 days  :o

Offline rumborak

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2019, 12:45:02 PM »
What the hell! That looks insanely hard and he did it 2 days after release.


I ... kinda doubt he only had the album for 2 days at that point.
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Offline Dedalus

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2019, 01:17:26 PM »
A good exemple on "overplaying":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqr6O7shCrw

The final solo (06:00-07:40).
 
The original song ends with a beautiful guitar solo, while bass and drums make a simple groove and keyboard an equally simple accompaniment.

In the YouTube version the drummer chose to turn the end of the song into a guitar solo plus a kind of "drum solo". The nice bass + drums simple groove is over.

At the end of the day is about a choice.

Offline devieira73

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2019, 01:39:26 PM »
Ironically, from what I remember, this guy above covered almost the rest of the Astonishing, faithfull to the original arrangements.
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Offline Anxiety35

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2019, 01:41:04 PM »
Were we spoiled by Portnoy's overplaying?

No.

We got used to it. It was part of what he did in DT.

As a drummer for 35 years (I'm almost 42 and started playing when I was 6), one of the most difficult things to do is play to the music within the song. Don't let yourself be way out front but don't sound like you just had a lesson learning how to play the snare on the 2 and 4. The temptation is to throw in fills and chops because we want to be noticed. TBH it's fun to do and it sounds really cool. But, does the song call for that? That's the ultimate question a drummer must decide when they compose for a song.

In my earlier years of drumming I was totally into the over the top & virtuoso type players. I was enamored with the fills. MP scratched my itch because DT was the musical marriage of prog, rock, and metal. I liked prog and I liked metal so DT was a great fit for me to get all of that in one band.

As a drummer, I think Awake is MP's best work. His drumming fits the songs best on that album. I don't think he overplayed much, if at all. His playing was creative and fresh. Not saying his playing on other albums isn't good because it is. I think he started really going overboard with the 2hands up/2feet down fill on SFAM. That became his thing. Kinda like Zakk Wyle with pinch harmonics on the guitar. It wasn't new in drumming but it became his signature fill (hence the "bag of tricks" reference in the Liquid Drum Theater video). He got into doing a lot of the 32nd note fills too. He started to "fill it up" in areas where, in my honest opinion, it wasn't needed. Think about the fill on top of the keyboard solo in Blind Faith. It's an awesome fill and it sounds incredible but did it work there? Opinions vary.

His playing became bland to me on Systematic Chaos and BCSL. His drumming was good (always has been) but it was predictable. When we don't know what else to do, we do what we know to do. So, fill it up he did. I always thought he would have greatly benefited from a drum teacher just to get a different view of the instrument and to be inspired to go to another level of playing. But doing the things he was doing for the band in addition to drumming may have taken precedent over spending time to get to another level of playing & composing. Maybe the break he was wanting for the band would have been good for him not just to do other projects but to reinvent himself behind the kit.

In no way am I the best drummer in the world. In no way is this a diss of MP. I've been a fan since 1994 and have much respect for him. He gets gigs today because he's a good drummer. He nails it in studio and live. He's a professional. People seem to want him on their recordings or on tour because they know what they're going to get and they are confident that MP will deliver. I'm just sharing my honest thoughts in regards to the OP's question.

Offline lucidlydreaming

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2019, 01:54:40 PM »
^ Interestingly enough, that was when the band started self producing....I feel like they really needed to be reined in as a whole during the post ToT era.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2019, 02:40:21 PM »
His playing became bland to me on Systematic Chaos and BCSL. His drumming was good (always has been) but it was predictable. When we don't know what else to do, we do what we know to do. So, fill it up he did. I always thought he would have greatly benefited from a drum teacher just to get a different view of the instrument and to be inspired to go to another level of playing. But doing the things he was doing for the band in addition to drumming may have taken precedent over spending time to get to another level of playing & composing. Maybe the break he was wanting for the band would have been good for him not just to do other projects but to reinvent himself behind the kit.
As a fellow skinbeater I share the same opinion but I started to feel that already in the Train of Throught days, that's when I started to loose interest in DT and MPs predictable playing was a part of it.
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:23 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
I believe it's note per note drum cover of PBD :tup
I'm always amazed how this youtube musicians can learn to play these difficult songs apparently overnight.
That first 16th note pattern is nasty and of course it's with the lefty.  :eek


Actually a lot of FII.

LITS, 4:08-4:30. Absolutely unbelievable.

Yep, that is good stuff.

And in the annals of drum fills you air drum every single time, I would submit the drum fill between the bolded words in the line, "Helps us to understand the turbulence deep inside," from Losing Time/Grand Finale (from 6DOIT).  Unless I am driving and that hits when I am turning or unable to do it for fear of crashing :lol, I cannot not air drum that fill.  So simple, yet so good.

The reverse drum fill in The Glass Prison for me. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O__pcncOpNw

1:24
Most of the fills you guys talk about except Kev is pretty much variations of this kind of fill that MP has done for ages: https://youtu.be/Ab2uWmHaw-o?t=57




« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 02:58:52 PM by MrBoom_shack-a-lack »
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2019, 02:47:54 PM »
As a fellow skinbeater...

That's a new one. Are you the masseuse that Robert Kraft visited?
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Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2019, 02:59:26 PM »
As a fellow skinbeater...

That's a new one. Are you the masseuse that Robert Kraft visited?
:zydar:
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Offline aglenn01

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2019, 06:37:18 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
I believe it's note per note drum cover of PBD :tup
I'm always amazed how this youtube musicians can learn to play these difficult songs apparently overnight.
That first 16th note pattern is nasty and of course it's with the lefty.  :eek


Actually a lot of FII.

LITS, 4:08-4:30. Absolutely unbelievable.

Yep, that is good stuff.

And in the annals of drum fills you air drum every single time, I would submit the drum fill between the bolded words in the line, "Helps us to understand the turbulence deep inside," from Losing Time/Grand Finale (from 6DOIT).  Unless I am driving and that hits when I am turning or unable to do it for fear of crashing :lol, I cannot not air drum that fill.  So simple, yet so good.

The reverse drum fill in The Glass Prison for me. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O__pcncOpNw

1:24
Most of the fills you guys talk about except Kev is pretty much variations of this kind of fill that MP has done for ages: https://youtu.be/Ab2uWmHaw-o?t=57
On a side note, Todd Sucherman in that clip is an absolutely underrated rock drummer; check out some of his stuff on the tubes. I would love for him to get with Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson for some stuff now that Neil P. has retired. He'd be a great fit for those guys. I'm not sure if he'd leave Styx to do it, but I'm also not sure why the heck he wouldn't! I mean it would be Geddy and Alex.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 06:42:55 PM by aglenn01 »

Offline aglenn01

  • Posts: 19
Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2019, 06:41:08 PM »
.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 08:17:04 PM by aglenn01 »

Offline lucidlydreaming

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2019, 08:28:05 PM »
I like his fill on The Spirit Carries On. 

Offline Scottjf8

  • Posts: 157
Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2019, 09:23:12 PM »
Mangini doesn't stand up while he plays, and he doesn't do those awful falsetto vocals.  I liked MP's backing vocals until seeing him during the Medley thing on Chaos in Motion.  He ruined Octavarium.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2019, 11:01:37 PM »
Speaking of which, I got the impression the opening of PBD was in a similar vein to the 6:00 opening, but it also shows the difference between MP and MM.

They are both drum solo intros, but the feel of the songs themselves are very different, so how could they be comparable? Can you do a groovy drum intro ala-6:00 given the music of PBD? What is more comparable is the drum intro of Paralyzed, which if the band only decided to start with instead of the riff would be similar to what they were going for with 6:00.

The two are obviously not very similar in style, but rather in function in the song, as the buildup to the song where the sole focus is on the drums. I just think it displays how MP and MM approach something like that differently. MP chose a groovy run, whereas MM went for something non-groovy but incredibly hard to play. (that missed hihat hit is driving me nuts though)

But the other song is technical while the other is groovy, so doesn't that dictate more how the drum intro would shape up rather than the approach of the drummers?

Again, I think the better comparison is Paralyzed, where the riff was based on the drum pattern so they could have arranged it with a solo drum intro if they wanted. Or better is Challenge Accepted in the Into The Great Divide album. That is a groovy drum intro, not a technical one, which fits well with the spirit of the song.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2019, 01:24:41 AM by erwinrafael »

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

  • I hit things for a living!
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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2019, 01:22:09 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsmQWV8Iro
I believe it's note per note drum cover of PBD :tup
I'm always amazed how this youtube musicians can learn to play these difficult songs apparently overnight.
That first 16th note pattern is nasty and of course it's with the lefty.  :eek


Actually a lot of FII.

LITS, 4:08-4:30. Absolutely unbelievable.

Yep, that is good stuff.

And in the annals of drum fills you air drum every single time, I would submit the drum fill between the bolded words in the line, "Helps us to understand the turbulence deep inside," from Losing Time/Grand Finale (from 6DOIT).  Unless I am driving and that hits when I am turning or unable to do it for fear of crashing :lol, I cannot not air drum that fill.  So simple, yet so good.

The reverse drum fill in The Glass Prison for me. Love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O__pcncOpNw

1:24
Most of the fills you guys talk about except Kev is pretty much variations of this kind of fill that MP has done for ages: https://youtu.be/Ab2uWmHaw-o?t=57
On a side note, Todd Sucherman in that clip is an absolutely underrated rock drummer; check out some of his stuff on the tubes. I would love for him to get with Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson for some stuff now that Neil P. has retired. He'd be a great fit for those guys. I'm not sure if he'd leave Styx to do it, but I'm also not sure why the heck he wouldn't! I mean it would be Geddy and Alex.
Yea, he's one of my favourite drummers these days. I'm glad though that he's more recognized than ever and his name is spreading.
"I said to Nigel Tufnel, 'The door is open if you want to do anything on this record,' but it turns out Nigel has a phobia about doors." /Derek Smalls

Offline 1neeto

  • Posts: 403
Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2019, 08:01:13 PM »
To me Hell’s Kitchen does it. Every single hit counts in that song. That MP at his best IMO.

Offline bill1971

  • Posts: 743
Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2019, 07:32:12 AM »
To me Hell’s Kitchen does it. Every single hit counts in that song. That MP at his best IMO.

Yes, great part. Also the beginning of Misunderstood. MP from the start was a big part of why I got in DT. Then things changed. Maybe he just hit a wall. Maybe he was so burnt out on being the voice and "leader" of DT that he put the drumming on the back burner. It was like he was bored with just being the drummer where I thought he did an amazing job for a long time.

Offline EPIC Outro

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Re: Were We Spoiled by Portnoy's Overplaying?
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2019, 07:39:55 AM »

For the life of me, I can't tell the difference between one drummer and another. I don't know how to play the drums, so it all sounds like a wash if background noise to me, and I couldn't identify any individual fill or moment that stands out anywhere in the DT discography, aside from maybe the opening of 6:00. I know both Portnoy and Mangini are among the best drummers in the world, and I respect both of them greatly, but their instrumental contribution to the band is the one I understand the least.