Author Topic: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music (Read 28582 times)

WildRanger · « **Reply #70 on:** February 25, 2019, 08:11:23 AM »

Quote from: Stadler on February 25, 2019, 07:31:54 AM

If we ask "what is the best album of all time?" and leave it open to interpretation, it's subjective. If we say "what is the best album of all time?" and say "best, as defined by albums sold", it's objective. Now, we can argue about whether "albums sold" is the right standard, and we can propose other standards, but as long as we are weighing in on a third party standard, it is objective.

Impact is a much better standard than album sales. Pet Sounds is not a big seller, but it's one of the most impactful albums ever. That's probably a main reason why that album is featured on most "Greatest albums of all time" lists.

Zantera · « **Reply #71 on:** February 25, 2019, 08:59:33 AM »

I don't think sales would ever be a good measuring stone for quality because with that reasoning something like the cheeseburger at mcdonalds would be the best burger in the world. Then again I don't subscribe to the idea that opinions can be twisted and turned into right or wrong. There's so many different types of music out there and people get different things from it. To me I have no issues with a person who listens to the exact opposite music as me, but I do take offense with the person trying to tell me that there's music "objectively" better than what I enjoy. Whether it's band popularity or sales or album ratings on RYM/Sputnikmusic or something else, there's a lot of factors that played into why some bands got a big break and some didn't that go beyond just quality. Right place right time, so on.

Worst thing that comes to mind are those often shared FB pictures like "it took this effort to make this prog song VS look how simple this pop song is" which is always shared and liked by people who are biased to begin with which makes it pointless. In the end music is about making us feel something (happiness, sadness, anger, whatever it may be) and if you get that out of a 20 minute song with complex time changes and long solos OR a 3 minute pop song with a catchy chorus you end up singing in the shower, it makes the discussion "whats objectively the best" just a waste of time.

Stadler · « **Reply #72 on:** February 25, 2019, 08:59:42 AM »

I wouldn't argue with either of the previous two posts (especially the second one), but the point is, you've set the standard, so it's no longer "subjective". We CAN measure impact, we CAN measure record sales, even if it's next to impossible to do so to a sufficient accuracy.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #73 on:** February 25, 2019, 09:25:06 AM »

For me in the 70's a lot of the popular music was written by the artist. Now, it's written buy someone else and that always irked me. I'm not saying every decade didn't have someone who had songs written for them but the percentages were a lot lower.

In the 80's that changed when bands were forced to use outside writers more.

Adami · « **Reply #74 on:** February 25, 2019, 09:29:22 AM »

Lots of pop have been written by outside writers.

I get that it can be annoying, but let's not forget classical music. Orchestras don't write their own material either. Though I guess a big difference is we're celebrating the composer, and with pop we rarely have any idea who writes what and we only celebrate the performer. Hm.

But even going with people like Frank Sinatra, I'm pretty sure they rarely, if ever, wrote their own stuff.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #75 on:** February 25, 2019, 09:40:45 AM »

Most of the 50's had outside writers for sure and hell, had musicians play their music.

Anguyen92 · « **Reply #76 on:** February 25, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »

Quote from: kingshmegland on February 25, 2019, 09:40:45 AM

Most of the 50's had outside writers for sure and hell, had musicians play their music.

Elvis comes to mind regarding this stuff right? He didn't write any of the music or lyrics, or did he?

Samsara · « **Reply #77 on:** February 25, 2019, 10:01:56 AM »

Pop artists have generally had more outside writers doing their stuff, at least through what I've observed over the years. What was really nice about hard rock and metal acts was that they, for the most part, particularly while they were establishing themselves, they wrote it all themselves.

Take Aerosmith. Throughout the 70s, they wrote that stuff themselves. And then in the mid-80s, they started employing outside writers to help polish up their stuff and make it more appealing to a broad audience. It worked. Bon Jovi, sorta the same deal. But they have done it ever since their third album, Slippery When Wet (and the first one was pretty much a Jon solo record).

But metal bands, are at least heavy bands, rarely did it. You might see a co-write with someone here and there, but generally speaking at least for me personally, the fact those bands wrote their own stuff was why I gravitated to them.

Here's a big disappointment. Take Revolution Saints, the band fronted by Deen Castronovo, who put out a couple records on Frontiers. I bought the first one, and then saw the band didn't write the songs. I got rid of it (the physical version). It just takes all the steam out of it for me.

Ninjabait · « **Reply #78 on:** February 25, 2019, 11:02:48 AM »

Yeah, but the thing most people forget is that these songs are specifically written for the artist most of the time. Like, usually the songwriter and producer have a certain person in mind when they're writing that song. There are some exceptions, ofc, but it's not like they produce a whole bunch of beats and hock them on pop star eBay. How would that be different from the band making and performing a song that was just written by the drummer or guitarist? Or by a former member?

And for group songwriters, I fail to see how that's different from how bands approach writing. You usually have a bunch of songwriters and friends sitting around at a table (including the named artist) throwing out ideas and being like "yeah I like that, but let's try x instead of y". A band would do the same thing. Again, you have exceptions. Taylor Swift and Adele write their own lyrics solo, and Carly Rae Jepsen works with only one other songwriter iirc.

SoundscapeMN · « **Reply #79 on:** February 25, 2019, 11:08:41 AM »

I swear there was 1 or more previous topics more or less doing the same thing. But I suspect a Mod deleted them $:\$

King Postwhore · « **Reply #80 on:** February 25, 2019, 11:45:12 AM »

Quote from: Ninjabait on February 25, 2019, 11:02:48 AM

Yeah, but the thing most people forget is that these songs are specifically written for the artist most of the time. Like, usually the songwriter and producer have a certain person in mind when they're writing that song. There are some exceptions, ofc, but it's not like they produce a whole bunch of beats and hock them on pop star eBay. How would that be different from the band making and performing a song that was just written by the drummer or guitarist? Or by a former member?

And for group songwriters, I fail to see how that's different from how bands approach writing. You usually have a bunch of songwriters and friends sitting around at a table (including the named artist) throwing out ideas and being like "yeah I like that, but let's try x instead of y". A band would do the same thing. Again, you have exceptions. Taylor Swift and Adele write their own lyrics solo, and Carly Rae Jepsen works with only one other songwriter iirc.

I'm talking about a specific decade where bands and singer songwriters became the popular music. If you look at the Billboard charts in the 70's, that decade had a high % of bands and singer songwriters that were popular music. Every decade has pop start that have music written for them and other like Lady Gaga who write the majority of her much or collaborates with other writers.

I just brought up that specific decade. In the 80's when band's popularity waned record companies forced bands like Cheap Trick, Heart and Areosmith to use outside writers.

Ben_Jamin · « **Reply #81 on:** February 26, 2019, 12:54:04 PM »

Quote from: Ninjabait on February 25, 2019, 11:02:48 AM

Yeah, but the thing most people forget is that these songs are specifically written for the artist most of the time. Like, usually the songwriter and producer have a certain person in mind when they're writing that song. There are some exceptions, ofc, but it's not like they produce a whole bunch of beats and hock them on pop star eBay. How would that be different from the band making and performing a song that was just written by the drummer or guitarist? Or by a former member?

And for group songwriters, I fail to see how that's different from how bands approach writing. You usually have a bunch of songwriters and friends sitting around at a table (including the named artist) throwing out ideas and being like "yeah I like that, but let's try x instead of y". A band would do the same thing. Again, you have exceptions. Taylor Swift and Adele write their own lyrics solo, and Carly Rae Jepsen works with only one other songwriter iirc.

Then you have guys like Arjen and Tobias writing their own songs and knowing which singer would suit the song. Example being Mystery of A Blood Red Rose, intended for Meat Loaf which somehow he declined.

Then producers and songwriters have to compromise.

Or, if you want to go hardcore, their is The Monkees.

WildRanger · « **Reply #82 on:** March 03, 2019, 03:47:13 PM »

Album Rumours (and Nicks/Buckingham era Fleetwood Mac in general) sucks.

King Postwhore · « **Reply #83 on:** March 03, 2019, 04:03:31 PM »

Quote from: WildRanger on March 03, 2019, 03:47:13 PM

Album Rumours (and Nicks/Buckingham era Fleetwood Mac in general) sucks.

I question everything about your though process.

Crow · « **Reply #84 on:** March 03, 2019, 06:22:12 PM »

i've got a thread-ending opinion:

all music ever made is objectively bad

Ben_Jamin · « **Reply #85 on:** March 03, 2019, 07:18:48 PM »

Quote from: Parama on March 03, 2019, 06:22:12 PM

i've got a thread-ending opinion:

all music ever made is objectively bad

Haha...thats more of a thread starting opinion.

Here's one...

Korn is an excellent band. They have a style that is amazing. See You On The Otherside is great record. Since then their albums were iffy, all due to Bryan "Head" Welch leaving. Since he's back, they're back to their older sound which also incorporates newer stuff they learned. Black is The Soul has that old school sound of Issues, Untvouchables and Take a Look in The Mirror, the best 3 run album ever for Korn.

TAC · « **Reply #86 on:** March 03, 2019, 07:21:25 PM »

I've seen Korn twice, in a club in '95, and an arena in '96, and they have to be one of the worst bands I've ever seen.

TheCountOfNYC · « **Reply #87 on:** March 03, 2019, 08:44:35 PM »

Quote from: Parama on March 03, 2019, 06:22:12 PM

i've got a thread-ending opinion:

all music ever made is objectively bad

It’s also objectively good. Such is the nature of art.

jammindude · « **Reply #88 on:** March 03, 2019, 08:57:06 PM »

Quote from: TheCountOfNYC on March 03, 2019, 08:44:35 PM

Quote from: Parama on March 03, 2019, 06:22:12 PM
i've got a thread-ending opinion:

all music ever made is objectively bad

It’s also objectively good. Such is the nature of art.

"My mother said I sound like Luther Vandross" - tone deaf loser trying out for American Idol

Some opinions are just wrong.

Stadler · « **Reply #89 on:** March 04, 2019, 09:19:07 AM »

Quote from: TAC on March 03, 2019, 07:21:25 PM

I've seen Korn twice, in a club in '95, and an arena in '96, and they have to be one of the worst bands I've ever seen.

I saw them open for... Ozzy I think it was, and they sucked. In totality, that was one of the worst concerts I've ever seen (at least with big name acts). Ozzy had Joe Holmes with him and it was just... I expected better. And I'm not even talking about Ozzy's singing; I'm used to that at this point. It was short, it was an average set, it was... boring. And Korn was worse than Ozzy, if that's possible.

Other points:
Rumours is as good - or better - than the hype. That's damn close to a perfect record.

Elvis: Double check me, but I believe Elvis had about 10 writing credits, and actually wrote like one or two. Famously, he came up with the phrase "All Shook Up", and another guy wrote the song to that. For the title, Presley got a credit. There are a couple songs he "wrote" with a woman named "Vera Mattox" or "Matson" or something like that, and the songs were actually written by a guy. Elvis wouldn't sing those without getting a 50% writing credit, so the guy added his wife to the song too, because "she didn't write it either".

Ninjabait · « **Reply #90 on:** March 04, 2019, 10:25:34 AM »

Speaking of Korn, here's another one:

Nu metal and metalcore aren't usually as bad as metalheads say they are. Linkin Park, Korn, Disturbed, etc. all have some pretty bangin' tunes

Anguyen92 · « **Reply #91 on:** March 04, 2019, 10:40:18 AM »

Quote from: Ninjabait on March 04, 2019, 10:25:34 AM

Speaking of Korn, here's another one:

Nu metal and metalcore aren't usually as bad as metalheads say they are. Linkin Park, Korn, Disturbed, etc. all have some pretty bangin' tunes

Adding to that, after seeing Disturbed in January, they put on a great show with decent production values for an arena show and have a good amount of solid songs that people do not give them enough credit for. People only know them due to Down with the Sickness, but Stupify is a solid staple on rock radio as is Voices, The Game, Prayer, their cover of Land of Confusion, Stricken, Ten Thousand Fists, etc. Heck, they were still able to create hits even after the peak of the Nu-metal period ended (Inside the Fire, Indestructible, and their Sound of Silence cover to name a few).

Stadler · « **Reply #92 on:** March 04, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »

Quote from: Anguyen92 on March 04, 2019, 10:40:18 AM

Quote from: Ninjabait on March 04, 2019, 10:25:34 AM
Speaking of Korn, here's another one:

Nu metal and metalcore aren't usually as bad as metalheads say they are. Linkin Park, Korn, Disturbed, etc. all have some pretty bangin' tunes

Adding to that, after seeing Disturbed in January, they put on a great show with decent production values for an arena show and have a good amount of solid songs that people do not give them enough credit for. People only know them due to Down with the Sickness, but Stupify is a solid staple on rock radio as is Voices, The Game, Prayer, their cover of Land of Confusion, Stricken, Ten Thousand Fists, etc. Heck, they were still able to create hits even after the peak of the Nu-metal period ended (Inside the Fire, Indestructible, and their Sound of Silence cover to name a few).

I'm no Disturbed fan at all, but I have to say that cover of Sound of Silence is killer.

Zantera · « **Reply #93 on:** March 04, 2019, 01:41:47 PM »

It might be controversial but I absolutely hate the Disturbed cover of Sound of Silence. The original is great because it's so subdued and quiet and the level of emotion in it is so great and then the cover is just this big bombastic power ballad with vocals overdoing it to the top. But I know some people love it so maybe it's just me.

Adami · « **Reply #94 on:** March 04, 2019, 01:44:03 PM »

Quote from: Zantera on March 04, 2019, 01:41:47 PM

It might be controversial but I absolutely hate the Disturbed cover of Sound of Silence. The original is great because it's so subdued and quiet and the level of emotion in it is so great and then the cover is just this big bombastic power ballad with vocals overdoing it to the top. But I know some people love it so maybe it's just me.

I get both perspectives. I'm not super attached to the original, so I don't care if they change it, but it definitely feels SO overproduced to the point of sounding manufactured.

I probably feel the way you do about this, with Space Dye Vest. I really did not like when DT played it recently. Not at all. For similar reasons as you not liking SoS.

Stadler · « **Reply #95 on:** March 04, 2019, 08:07:47 PM »

Quote from: Zantera on March 04, 2019, 01:41:47 PM

It might be controversial but I absolutely hate the Disturbed cover of Sound of Silence. The original is great because it's so subdued and quiet and the level of emotion in it is so great and then the cover is just this big bombastic power ballad with vocals overdoing it to the top. But I know some people love it so maybe it's just me.

Believe it or not, I totally get that opinion. Totally. But for some reason it clicked with me.

SoundscapeMN · « **Reply #96 on:** March 04, 2019, 10:19:50 PM »

Quote from: SoundscapeMN on February 25, 2019, 11:08:41 AM

I swear there was 1 or more previous topics more or less doing the same thing. But I suspect a Mod deleted them $:\$

correction.

It was not deleted

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=48430.0

DoctorAction · « **Reply #97 on:** March 04, 2019, 11:27:46 PM »

The Rolling Stones are the most over rated band in popular musical history. Arse. They have an albums worth of ok stuff, I guess, but I'm being generous. Jagger's an unbelievably annoying baffoon and Richards seems to love himself for some reason. It dumbfounds me how so many quote one of their albums as the best of all time.

ABBA on the other hand are amazing, and better than either the Stones or Beatles.

WildRanger · « **Reply #98 on:** March 05, 2019, 06:00:37 AM »

In one facebook rock fans group someone posted this question: "Name a better 3 musician band than Rush, if you can" and one man responded with a big list of trio bands including Blink 182 and Green Day.

Even if someone is a big Rush hater I don't get how he can have an opinion that Blink 182 and Green Day are a 'better 3 musician bands' than Rush.
His statement was extremely controversial and objectively wrong.

Dream Team · « **Reply #99 on:** March 05, 2019, 06:39:08 AM »

Well what do you expect, the only Rush song he ever heard is probably Tom Sawyer.

Adami · « **Reply #100 on:** March 05, 2019, 07:00:00 AM »

God dammit no more objectivity vs subjectivity stuff!

Can this be a rule on the forum? Anytime someone states that art (or anything else) can be objectively good or bad, it's just deleted.

CDrice · « **Reply #101 on:** March 05, 2019, 07:13:07 AM »

I started to get interested in music thanks to Green Day's American Idiot and then became fan of Blink-182 and other pop-punk bands. And to be honest, while I don't listen to much of those bands anymore and I do enjoy some Rush (I think A Farewell To King, Permanent Waves and Grace Under Pressure are great), if you were to ask me to make a top 50 of my favorite albums I can say that American Idiot and Blink-182 self-titled album would rank above any Rush album (I guess that's pretty controversial

) Part of it might just be nostalagia, but this person might come from a similar place than me.

WildRanger · « **Reply #102 on:** March 05, 2019, 07:34:49 AM »

Quote from: CDrice on March 05, 2019, 07:13:07 AM

I started to get interested in music thanks to Green Day's American Idiot and then became fan of Blink-182 and other pop-punk bands. And to be honest, while I don't listen to much of those bands anymore and I do enjoy some Rush (I think A Farewell To King, Permanent Waves and Grace Under Pressure are great), if you were to ask me to make a top 50 of my favorite albums I can say that American Idiot and Blink-182 self-titled album would rank above any Rush album (I guess that's pretty controversial ) Part of it might just be nostalagia, but this person might come from a similar place than me.

It's unbelievable to me. And yeah, words can't describe how controversial it is.

KevShmev · « **Reply #103 on:** March 05, 2019, 07:48:38 AM »

Quote from: Dream Team on March 05, 2019, 06:39:08 AM

Well what do you expect, the only Rush song he ever heard is probably Tom Sawyer.

Plus, people who are not fans of Rush often really hate them, so they will take any opportunity to demean them. This is not new.

CDrice · « **Reply #104 on:** March 05, 2019, 07:49:10 AM »

Quote from: WildRanger on March 05, 2019, 07:34:49 AM

Quote from: CDrice on March 05, 2019, 07:13:07 AM
I started to get interested in music thanks to Green Day's American Idiot and then became fan of Blink-182 and other pop-punk bands. And to be honest, while I don't listen to much of those bands anymore and I do enjoy some Rush (I think A Farewell To King, Permanent Waves and Grace Under Pressure are great), if you were to ask me to make a top 50 of my favorite albums I can say that American Idiot and Blink-182 self-titled album would rank above any Rush album (I guess that's pretty controversial ) Part of it might just be nostalagia, but this person might come from a similar place than me.

It's unbelievable to me. And yeah, words can't describe how controversial it is.

I also think that the moment you discover a band plays a big role into that. As I said I didn't really like music music until 2004 when American Idiot came out and it juts blew my mind when I heard it. I got into Blink-182 around the same time. So while I don't listen to them has much now, I still have an emotional connection with those band (especially those two albums I mentionned) that I don't really have with Rush. And I'm saying that with respect to Rush and all they've accomplished as musicians.

News: Welcome back, Mike Portnoy!

Author Topic: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music (Read 28582 times)