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Offline Crow

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2019, 11:18:04 AM »
* Pop isn't as bad as people say it is

What sucks about pop is the arrangements, the production and the instruments used to play the songs, especially when it's not even an instrument but something electronic made with a computer. There's nothing wrong with a good, memorable hook and there are gazillion of rock and metal covers out there who shows that, when you use real instruments and sometimes real singers and not autotuned ones, a song changes completely face.
Bad Romance is probably the best song ever made ngl
I think saying music can't be good without real instruments is pretty narrow-minded though

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2019, 11:46:43 AM »
I guess it's not that controversial as others have already brought up similar feelings but:

For a music genre that was basically based around the idea of pushing boundaries and doing new innovative things, progressive rock & metal has become incredibly stale and lackluster. It's been quite a few years since a new prog band really blew me away and it seems at best what we get is a pretty good re-packaging of already familiar ideas when someone like Steven Wilson puts out a new album. I will still check out new albums by the bands I like and any new bands that get some hype but the genre has just become very safe. If you want to find new exciting music, progressive rock/metal isn't the place for it currently.

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2019, 11:59:12 AM »

My unpopular opinions:
* Pop isn't as bad as people say it is

It depends on what pop we are talking about. If we're talking about some 80's pop stuff, esp. an artist such as Prince, that's fine, there are quality stuff that we can find. But today's pop is just commerce without artistic substance and lacks a musical quality.

Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2019, 12:16:01 PM »
So much negativity in these threads. Turns largely into who can we say sucks that other people might like.

- Lady Gaga is one of my favorite artists and I absolutely love all of her albums (some more than others)
- Halestorm is an insanely good rock band (minus that one album)
- Muse is extremely creative and a lot of fun to listen to
- Flying Colors' 2nd album is really good (minus the first track)
- Stadler isn't ALWAYS wrong (but don't tell him I said that)
- Annete was a good Nightwish singer, and needs a great solo act.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2019, 12:18:32 PM »
Music is not 100% purely subjective.   But neither is it 100% purely objective either.   

There is a blurry line that moves around alot (and is different for each person) where objectivity fades into subjectivity and vice versa.   You can't define where the line is, but neither can you deny the line exists.   Unless you lack the capacity of abstract thought.   :angel: :angel: :angel: ;D
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Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2019, 12:21:13 PM »
Music is not 100% purely subjective.   But neither is it 100% purely objective either.   

There is a blurry line that moves around alot (and is different for each person) where objectivity fades into subjectivity and vice versa.   You can't define where the line is, but neither can you deny the line exists.   Unless you lack the capacity of abstract thought.   :angel: :angel: :angel: ;D

Yes and no.

Music can be objective, but you CAN  find the line. Length, number of notes, speed, etc. Anything objectively measurable. Anything else is 100% subjective. You're going to have to give up this fight. And saying it's all about abstract though is also wrong.

For instance, I can't say that sometimes air is dirt and sometimes mountains are pigeons, but it takes an abstract mind to see it. I'd just be wrong.
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2019, 12:42:23 PM »
So much negativity in these threads. Turns largely into who can we say sucks that other people might like.

- Lady Gaga is one of my favorite artists and I absolutely love all of her albums (some more than others)
- Halestorm is an insanely good rock band (minus that one album)
- Muse is extremely creative and a lot of fun to listen to
- Flying Colors' 2nd album is really good (minus the first track)
- Stadler isn't ALWAYS wrong (but don't tell him I said that)
- Annete was a good Nightwish singer, and needs a great solo act.

You forgot to add your one negative, controversial opinion that you've said before on one of my threads: "Pachelbel's Canon in D sucks". If you were serious.  ;D


Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2019, 12:43:06 PM »
So much negativity in these threads. Turns largely into who can we say sucks that other people might like.

- Lady Gaga is one of my favorite artists and I absolutely love all of her albums (some more than others)
- Halestorm is an insanely good rock band (minus that one album)
- Muse is extremely creative and a lot of fun to listen to
- Flying Colors' 2nd album is really good (minus the first track)
- Stadler isn't ALWAYS wrong (but don't tell him I said that)
- Annete was a good Nightwish singer, and needs a great solo act.

You forgot to add your one negative, controversial opinion that you've said before on one of my threads: "Pachelbel's Canon in D sucks". If you were serious.  ;D

100% serious. Hate that song. Was just trying to keep it mostly positive to outweigh the largely negative thread. I have plenty of negative opinions, but meh.
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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2019, 12:59:15 PM »
So much negativity in these threads. Turns largely into who can we say sucks that other people might like.

- Lady Gaga is one of my favorite artists and I absolutely love all of her albums (some more than others)
- Halestorm is an insanely good rock band (minus that one album)
- Muse is extremely creative and a lot of fun to listen to
- Flying Colors' 2nd album is really good (minus the first track)
- Stadler isn't ALWAYS wrong (but don't tell him I said that)
- Annete was a good Nightwish singer, and needs a great solo act.

You forgot to add your one negative, controversial opinion that you've said before on one of my threads: "Pachelbel's Canon in D sucks". If you were serious.  ;D

100% serious. Hate that song. Was just trying to keep it mostly positive to outweigh the largely negative thread. I have plenty of negative opinions, but meh.

I'm guessing you play cello or used to play it?


My unpopular opinions:
* Pop isn't as bad as people say it is

It depends on what pop we are talking about. If we're talking about some 80's pop stuff, esp. an artist such as Prince, that's fine, there are quality stuff that we can find. But today's pop is just commerce without artistic substance and lacks a musical quality.

How would you define "artistic substance" and "a musical quality"? How would modern pop differ from 80s pop in terms of commercialization? Or classic rock? Or prog-metal? Isn't every form of popular music just commerce, technically? It's specifically targeted towards a certain demographic in order to sell units and make money so that the artist doesn't starve to death.

Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #44 on: February 24, 2019, 01:02:58 PM »
Would love to play Cello, and I see exactly why you'd ask me, but no I don't know how to play cello. But I assume I hate it for similar reasons.
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Offline Sacul

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #45 on: February 24, 2019, 01:07:51 PM »
For a music genre that was basically based around the idea of pushing boundaries and doing new innovative things, progressive rock & metal has become incredibly stale and lackluster. It's been quite a few years since a new prog band really blew me away and it seems at best what we get is a pretty good re-packaging of already familiar ideas when someone like Steven Wilson puts out a new album. I will still check out new albums by the bands I like and any new bands that get some hype but the genre has just become very safe. If you want to find new exciting music, progressive rock/metal isn't the place for it currently.
Definitely this. Although I have some hope for Bent Knee, as a whole prog has become very stagnant and I don't listen to it anymore outside the artists I already know.


My unpopular opinions:
* Pop isn't as bad as people say it is

It depends on what pop we are talking about. If we're talking about some 80's pop stuff, esp. an artist such as Prince, that's fine, there are quality stuff that we can find. But today's pop is just commerce without artistic substance and lacks a musical quality.

How would you define "artistic substance" and "a musical quality"? How would modern pop differ from 80s pop in terms of commercialization? Or classic rock? Or prog-metal? Isn't every form of popular music just commerce, technically? It's specifically targeted towards a certain demographic in order to sell units and make money so that the artist doesn't starve to death.
I think that in the 80s just there were plenty of very successful pop artists that were very interested in pushing the limits of what pop music could be and ended up with very creative music that also sold like crazy, like Kate Bush and Talk Talk for instance. Although there's quality pop these days, it's not really as successful and prominent as it used to be.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #46 on: February 24, 2019, 01:12:19 PM »
Tears For Fears
XTC
Simple Minds
Big Country
The Fixx

Ect.....
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Offline Elite

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #47 on: February 24, 2019, 01:29:13 PM »
You forgot to add your one negative, controversial opinion that you've said before on one of my threads: "Pachelbel's Canon in D sucks". If you were serious.  ;D

100% serious. Hate that song. Was just trying to keep it mostly positive to outweigh the largely negative thread. I have plenty of negative opinions, but meh.

I'm guessing you play cello or used to play it?

:clap:
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #48 on: February 24, 2019, 01:42:20 PM »
For a music genre that was basically based around the idea of pushing boundaries and doing new innovative things, progressive rock & metal has become incredibly stale and lackluster. It's been quite a few years since a new prog band really blew me away and it seems at best what we get is a pretty good re-packaging of already familiar ideas when someone like Steven Wilson puts out a new album. I will still check out new albums by the bands I like and any new bands that get some hype but the genre has just become very safe. If you want to find new exciting music, progressive rock/metal isn't the place for it currently.
Definitely this. Although I have some hope for Bent Knee, as a whole prog has become very stagnant and I don't listen to it anymore outside the artists I already know.


My unpopular opinions:
* Pop isn't as bad as people say it is

It depends on what pop we are talking about. If we're talking about some 80's pop stuff, esp. an artist such as Prince, that's fine, there are quality stuff that we can find. But today's pop is just commerce without artistic substance and lacks a musical quality.

How would you define "artistic substance" and "a musical quality"? How would modern pop differ from 80s pop in terms of commercialization? Or classic rock? Or prog-metal? Isn't every form of popular music just commerce, technically? It's specifically targeted towards a certain demographic in order to sell units and make money so that the artist doesn't starve to death.
I think that in the 80s just there were plenty of very successful pop artists that were very interested in pushing the limits of what pop music could be and ended up with very creative music that also sold like crazy, like Kate Bush and Talk Talk for instance. Although there's quality pop these days, it's not really as successful and prominent as it used to be.

Except, "Contrary to current theories of musical evolution, then, we find no evidence for the progressive homogenization of music in the charts and little sign of diversity cycles within the 50 year time frame of our study. Instead, the evolution of chart diversity is dominated by historically unique events: the rise and fall of particular ways of making music." and the 1980s were one of the most musically and lyrically homogeneous period of music in the past half-century, with the 00s being one of the most diverse. For comparison, here's what was #1 in the US this week 1985 and here's what was #1 in the UK. Aaaand here's what was #1 in the US in 1986 this week. It wouldn't be hard to find a couple hundred dozen songs that sound eerily similar to these three.

Kate Bush herself only had 1 #1 hit in the UK and 1 on the US Modern Rock chart.  Nowadays you also have loads of musically innovative pop artists like Lorde, Sufjan Stevens, Marina and the Diamonds, Frank Ocean, etc. They tend to have similar histories on the charts. When looking back at history, we tend to only see the good stuff that survived and forget all the mediocre stuff that was around those times. It's true of the 1980s, the 1870s, the 1760s, and the 1650s.

Would love to play Cello, and I see exactly why you'd ask me, but no I don't know how to play cello. But I assume I hate it for similar reasons.

That's fair, the bassline for Canon in D is infamous as being one of the most boring in the history of classical music and the harmony could be ripped straight from a freshman music student's chorale. But that violin theme is straight up fire_emoji.png I ain't gonna lie

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2019, 01:44:51 PM »
Would love to play Cello, and I see exactly why you'd ask me, but no I don't know how to play cello. But I assume I hate it for similar reasons.

Maybe you never listen and generally don't care for classical music at all? Are there any classical pieces that you dig?
I rarely listen to classical music, but Canon in D is one of the few classical pieces that I love to listen, and it's shorter than most other famous pieces.


Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2019, 01:46:46 PM »
I love classical music. I am not as up on the composers and their works, but Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Bach, Wagner, Holst, even older music like Tallis. Love it all. When I'm in the car and don't have my Ipod, I usually have it on a classical station.

Just hate Cannon in D.
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Offline cygnusx1jg

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2019, 01:49:55 PM »
This thread has great potential!



I think Guns ‘n Roses is an annoying band and I would be very content with never hearing Sweet Child of Mine in particular ever again.

Rosanno by Toto is one of the grooviest songs ever and it’s so underrated for that feat. I love it and I can’t fathom why Africa or Hold the Line are seemingly infinitely more popular.

By the way, Toto is stupidly underrated anyway.

Lots of heavy metal music is very boring and similar.

Can You Hear What I'm Saying by Toto gives me goosebumps every time I hear it. Their instrumentation was fabulous.
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Offline Anguyen92

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2019, 03:08:58 PM »
I'll add something else.  I don't think Nickelback and Creed deserved the hatred on the internet they received during their heydays.  They are no worst than the stuff I hear on Sirius XM Octane or Turbo on a regular basis.  Those bands actually have some pretty decent-to-great songs.  Heck, I would rather hear Nickelback or Creed on Octane or Turbo rather than the Godsmack, Korn, Rob Zombie, or Marilyn Manson stuff that those stations feel like they need to play all the friken time.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 03:14:28 PM by Anguyen92 »

Offline Adami

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2019, 03:11:48 PM »
I'll add something else.  I don't think Nickelback and Creed deserved the hatred on the internet they received during their heydays.  They are no worst than the stuff I hear on Sirus XM Octane or Turbo on a regular basis.  Those bands actually have some pretty decent-to-great songs.  Heck, I would rather hear Nickelback or Creed on Octane or Turbo rather than the Godsmack, Korn, Rob Zombie, or Marilyn Manson stuff that those stations feel like they need to play all the friken time.

I haven't listened to much Nickelback, but I love Creed. Not all of their stuff, mind you, but every album has good songs, and some albums are pretty awesome straight through.
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Offline 425

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2019, 03:13:23 PM »
I guess it's not that controversial as others have already brought up similar feelings but:

For a music genre that was basically based around the idea of pushing boundaries and doing new innovative things, progressive rock & metal has become incredibly stale and lackluster. It's been quite a few years since a new prog band really blew me away and it seems at best what we get is a pretty good re-packaging of already familiar ideas when someone like Steven Wilson puts out a new album. I will still check out new albums by the bands I like and any new bands that get some hype but the genre has just become very safe. If you want to find new exciting music, progressive rock/metal isn't the place for it currently.

I think there is merit to this view, but I also have the following potentially controversial opinion that might push back on an aspect of this, although I'm not ascribing to you the view I'm criticizing below:

I think the idea of "new ideas" is too often treated as an automatic good. Like, any "new, innovative" idea is automatically good because it is new. But, very often, when I hear the newer artists who are praised for having "new, innovative ideas," I do not enjoy it because I do not think the ideas are good. I react something like "yeah, there's a reason no one did this before!" In particular, I'm thinking here of atonal, amelodic stuff that is sometimes thrown into music and treated as some great new innovation. Yeah, it's new, but it's bad. I'd vastly prefer to have a prog album with good but unoriginal melodies over that sort of "novelty."

This is part of what informs my take on SDOIT, which is widely praised as being "experimental" and "innovative," but where most of the "experimental" stuff I hear is stuff like the Misunderstood outro.
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Offline Shadow Ninja 2.0

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #55 on: February 24, 2019, 04:17:00 PM »
Music is not 100% purely subjective.   But neither is it 100% purely objective either.   

There is a blurry line that moves around alot (and is different for each person) where objectivity fades into subjectivity and vice versa.   You can't define where the line is, but neither can you deny the line exists.   Unless you lack the capacity of abstract thought.   :angel: :angel: :angel: ;D

A blurry line that moves around and is different for each person is like, definitionally subjective. You're just describing subjectivity.

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #56 on: February 24, 2019, 04:22:17 PM »
I guess it's not that controversial as others have already brought up similar feelings but:

For a music genre that was basically based around the idea of pushing boundaries and doing new innovative things, progressive rock & metal has become incredibly stale and lackluster. It's been quite a few years since a new prog band really blew me away and it seems at best what we get is a pretty good re-packaging of already familiar ideas when someone like Steven Wilson puts out a new album. I will still check out new albums by the bands I like and any new bands that get some hype but the genre has just become very safe. If you want to find new exciting music, progressive rock/metal isn't the place for it currently.

I think there is merit to this view, but I also have the following potentially controversial opinion that might push back on an aspect of this, although I'm not ascribing to you the view I'm criticizing below:

I think the idea of "new ideas" is too often treated as an automatic good. Like, any "new, innovative" idea is automatically good because it is new. But, very often, when I hear the newer artists who are praised for having "new, innovative ideas," I do not enjoy it because I do not think the ideas are good. I react something like "yeah, there's a reason no one did this before!" In particular, I'm thinking here of atonal, amelodic stuff that is sometimes thrown into music and treated as some great new innovation. Yeah, it's new, but it's bad. I'd vastly prefer to have a prog album with good but unoriginal melodies over that sort of "novelty."

This is part of what informs my take on SDOIT, which is widely praised as being "experimental" and "innovative," but where most of the "experimental" stuff I hear is stuff like the Misunderstood outro.

New ideas doesn't have to be good indeed. I guess for me I'm the type of person always on the lookout for new sounds, new ideas and as soon as I hear "this band sounds like band X and Y" it makes me a bit skeptic right away. But I know people who are the opposite who prefers their music a certain way and that's fine too. When it comes to a band following their formula that made them successful I'm perfectly fine with that as long as they deliver quality, when it comes to new discoveries I do want some uniqueness to go with it though. And that's kinda the issue I have with prog is many of the newer bands sound very similar to other bands.

Offline Sacul

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #57 on: February 24, 2019, 06:26:24 PM »
Except, "Contrary to current theories of musical evolution, then, we find no evidence for the progressive homogenization of music in the charts and little sign of diversity cycles within the 50 year time frame of our study. Instead, the evolution of chart diversity is dominated by historically unique events: the rise and fall of particular ways of making music." and the 1980s were one of the most musically and lyrically homogeneous period of music in the past half-century, with the 00s being one of the most diverse. For comparison, here's what was #1 in the US this week 1985 and here's what was #1 in the UK. Aaaand here's what was #1 in the US in 1986 this week. It wouldn't be hard to find a couple hundred dozen songs that sound eerily similar to these three.

Kate Bush herself only had 1 #1 hit in the UK and 1 on the US Modern Rock chart.  Nowadays you also have loads of musically innovative pop artists like Lorde, Sufjan Stevens, Marina and the Diamonds, Frank Ocean, etc. They tend to have similar histories on the charts. When looking back at history, we tend to only see the good stuff that survived and forget all the mediocre stuff that was around those times. It's true of the 1980s, the 1870s, the 1760s, and the 1650s.
That's a pretty interesting study that I'll read closer, but I'm afraid it's only covering until the 2000s, which I'd agree was very diverse in terms of popular music (damn I get nostalgic for those days). Rather, my point wasn't that all 80s pop music was amazing - there was much trash we've forgotten, and we've done the same for every decade.

Yet I feel that it wasn't hard to find pop music that was very creative and sold like crazy back, that's why I mentioned Kate Bush - her most iconic album, Hounds of Love, has both sides, one being a pretty good collection of simple pop songs while the other one a conceptual, almost operatic album about a woman drowning. It's a wonderful album featuring cello, guitar, piano, a choir, traditional Irish instruments, but also sampling, synths, and drum machines.

I'm not arguing that Sufjan Stevens (I love his work), or Frank Ocean aren't making innovative pop, but rather that they're not massive and never will fill stadiums and get much radio time, and I'm fine with that. I just don't really like most big pop music these days, like Lana del Rey, Taylor Swift, Adele, Lorde, CHVRCHES, Muse, etc  :P. I also think it's interesting to see the big rise in hip-hop and trap these days, and in a way I'm not interested in seeing rock making a comeback at all.

Offline Ninjabait

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #58 on: February 24, 2019, 07:26:49 PM »
Yeah, unfortunately there aren't more studies of and dissertations based on pop music. Academia is usually a bit slow on figuring out that "oh wait there's a new genre of music" (jazz didn't start entering into academia until the late 60s/early 70s, iirc). Clercq and Temperley's "A Corpus Analysis of Rock Harmony" is another good one; it focuses on using statistical analysis to determine what's actually going on in pop and rock harmony. It's a hugely influential essay for me as a music theorist, and it helped me appreciate what's going on in a lot of pop music much more once I understood that the rules were different from what I was used to lol. As far as edutainment lighter stuff, Todd in the Shadows is a good critic to watch and Holistic Songwriting does a fantastic job on using some theory and industry knowledge for breaking down pop and rock artists. Understanding breeds familiarity, familiarity breeds enjoyment, and enjoyment breeds more understanding!

Back to your main point, tho, I think it's important to remember that there was overall less music being produced and released then. The last 20 years or so have democratized music and boosted the population to such an extreme degree that there's an absurd amount of music being produced nowadays. It's not that there's less good experimental and left-field music pop music being made (there's a lot more of it now), it's just that there's a lot more stuff out there that's competing for your attention. And, as usual, most of it is mediocre.

Even arguing for popularity, a lot of these more experimental outings are incredibly popular. Radiohead's last album was massive on social media when its first single was released, FO's Blonde hit #1 and has spent 116 weeks on the chart, Kendrick Lamar/Kanye/Tool are pretty much household names, etc. etc. Heck, Snarky Puppy and Joey Alexander have gotten a lot of attention and Dream Theater hit the Top 10 with The freaking Astonishing. Even major artists like Katy Perry are having trouble putting butts in seats because it's 2019 and everyone is still poor and honestly pop is in a temporary slump outside of Taylor Swift (because of sad rap becoming the "musical embodiment of the zeitgeist" of the last 5 years).

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #59 on: February 24, 2019, 11:14:20 PM »
Trying to get off the nerdy analysis an dback on track....

Regarding Ayreon:
* Into the Electric Castle is one of Aryeon's worst releases. The male vocal parts bring it down immensely, especially the Roman and the Barbarian.
* The Human Equation is hampered by too many medicore vocal parts and disparate musical sections.
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Offline The Curious Orange

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2019, 03:02:04 AM »
On the G n'R front:

Chinese Democracy is actually a rather good album. If they'd have released it in the 90s, everyone would have loved it and ranted about how great it was. It's only the fact it took 16 years and infinity-squillion dollars to make that turn it into a joke. The music itself is excellent.
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2019, 03:26:05 AM »
Yeah, unfortunately there aren't more studies of and dissertations based on pop music. Academia is usually a bit slow on figuring out that "oh wait there's a new genre of music" (jazz didn't start entering into academia until the late 60s/early 70s, iirc). Clercq and Temperley's "A Corpus Analysis of Rock Harmony" is another good one; it focuses on using statistical analysis to determine what's actually going on in pop and rock harmony. It's a hugely influential essay for me as a music theorist, and it helped me appreciate what's going on in a lot of pop music much more once I understood that the rules were different from what I was used to lol. As far as edutainment lighter stuff, Todd in the Shadows is a good critic to watch and Holistic Songwriting does a fantastic job on using some theory and industry knowledge for breaking down pop and rock artists. Understanding breeds familiarity, familiarity breeds enjoyment, and enjoyment breeds more understanding!

Back to your main point, tho, I think it's important to remember that there was overall less music being produced and released then. The last 20 years or so have democratized music and boosted the population to such an extreme degree that there's an absurd amount of music being produced nowadays. It's not that there's less good experimental and left-field music pop music being made (there's a lot more of it now), it's just that there's a lot more stuff out there that's competing for your attention. And, as usual, most of it is mediocre.

Even arguing for popularity, a lot of these more experimental outings are incredibly popular. Radiohead's last album was massive on social media when its first single was released, FO's Blonde hit #1 and has spent 116 weeks on the chart, Kendrick Lamar/Kanye/Tool are pretty much household names, etc. etc. Heck, Snarky Puppy and Joey Alexander have gotten a lot of attention and Dream Theater hit the Top 10 with The freaking Astonishing. Even major artists like Katy Perry are having trouble putting butts in seats because it's 2019 and everyone is still poor and honestly pop is in a temporary slump outside of Taylor Swift (because of sad rap becoming the "musical embodiment of the zeitgeist" of the last 5 years).

Ed Sheeran's popularity today vexes me.

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2019, 03:50:44 AM »

Rather, my point wasn't that all 80s pop music was amazing - there was much trash we've forgotten, and we've done the same for every decade.

I'm not arguing that Sufjan Stevens (I love his work), or Frank Ocean aren't making innovative pop, but rather that they're not massive and never will fill stadiums and get much radio time, and I'm fine with that. I just don't really like most big pop music these days, like Lana del Rey, Taylor Swift, Adele, Lorde, CHVRCHES, Muse, etc  :P.

In the 21st century there is no mainstream, commercial pop album that is the same league with 80's pop classics as Thriller and Purple Rain.

Offline Bolsters

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #63 on: February 25, 2019, 03:59:00 AM »
In the 21st century there is no mainstream, commercial pop album that is the same league with 80's pop classics as Thriller and Purple Rain.

Offline ZKX-2099

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #64 on: February 25, 2019, 04:14:22 AM »
Slow songs are boring.

Offline AboutToCrash

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #65 on: February 25, 2019, 06:11:22 AM »
The Haken vocalist sounds like Shikira.. I find him unbearable and the sole reason why I do not listen to them!

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2019, 07:23:48 AM »

Rather, my point wasn't that all 80s pop music was amazing - there was much trash we've forgotten, and we've done the same for every decade.

I'm not arguing that Sufjan Stevens (I love his work), or Frank Ocean aren't making innovative pop, but rather that they're not massive and never will fill stadiums and get much radio time, and I'm fine with that. I just don't really like most big pop music these days, like Lana del Rey, Taylor Swift, Adele, Lorde, CHVRCHES, Muse, etc  :P.

In the 21st century there is no mainstream, commercial pop album that is the same league with 80's pop classics as Thriller and Purple Rain.

Pishaw on that.   "1989" by Taylor Swift will absolutely be remembered in that group, ten years from now. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2019, 07:31:54 AM »
Music is not 100% purely subjective.   But neither is it 100% purely objective either.   

There is a blurry line that moves around alot (and is different for each person) where objectivity fades into subjectivity and vice versa.   You can't define where the line is, but neither can you deny the line exists.   Unless you lack the capacity of abstract thought.   :angel: :angel: :angel: ;D

With total respect, I agree with the first sentence, but not the second paragraph.  The line may be fuzzy, and we may not agree on the line, but it's not moving and it's not different.   The only difference between "objectivity" and "subjectivity" is a third party standard.   

If we ask "what is the best album of all time?" and leave it open to interpretation, it's subjective.  If we say "what is the best album of all time?" and say "best, as defined by albums sold", it's objective.  Now, we can argue about whether "albums sold" is the right standard, and we can propose other standards, but as long as we are weighing in on a third party standard, it is objective.   

This is the difference between opinion and criticism (in the classical sense).  Good critics, in their work, lay out the standards they are using, and how they weight a work against that standard.   Bad critics (and 99% of the internet) simply spew opinions ("It's awesome, because I got a boner while listening to it!"), which, in my view, are useless. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2019, 07:35:32 AM »
Stranger in Us All is way better than any JLT-fronted material Rainbow has released.

Is it controversial? it's not that hard to beat all that commercial "Hey please USA market look at me" crap Blackmore put out after firing Dio.

My controversial opinion?   "Bent Out Of Shape" is Rainbow's second best studio album (of course behind Rising) and "Fire Dance" is better than any Dio Rainbow song not named "Stargazer".   I think the problem with JLT Rainbow is that few people bothered with the deeper tracks after hearing "Stone Cold" and "Street of Dreams".   

Offline Art

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Re: Your controversial opinions/thoughts on music
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2019, 07:57:29 AM »
I hate Greta Van Fleet, even though i've never heard them.