Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[IDontNotDoThings]

Maybe I'm just not as much of a hi-fi enthusiast, but I think DOT is one of the band's best-sounding albums ever. 

[nobloodyname]

So, this is my first post. Have been a fan since Images and words, liked most of the albums, but not all.
I heard DoT on Spotify first, and liked the music, but not so much the sound. Since I'm a bit of a hifi-enthusiast, I bought the album in high resolution online, and to my surprise the sound was just as bad. I was shocked!

I think this must be the worst album so far when it comes to mastering. The sound totally lacks dynamics, and sounds like limiters are working overtime in more intense tracks (opening track is a good example). Drums are compressed and kick drum sounds really odd with a low range boost. Fat sound, but no dynamics and really tiring to listen to. Digital audio can do so much more, we are not using cassettes any more (the sound reminds me a little of a tape with the recording level set too high).

Other albums have been varying in sound quality(WDADU comes to mind , but in this case is seems the input (recorded tracks) was ok, but the dynamics where lost in the mixing/mastering.
Too bad, since the music is top notch (best in the MM-era IMO), but sound quality makes me want to turn it off..

Has nobody else noticed this?

Yes, several of us did, enough to rip the stereo version from the blu-ray. Much better than any other version, including the version made available through HDTracks.

Edit: Here you go: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53465.0

Have a read through that thread. Slightly embarrassing from a personal perspective that my (inebriated) rant near the start of it stated, by implication, that the stereo blu-ray track also sounded terrible. It didn't and it doesn't. Well worth getting hold of the converted files.

[Volante99]

So, this is my first post. Have been a fan since Images and words, liked most of the albums, but not all.
I heard DoT on Spotify first, and liked the music, but not so much the sound. Since I'm a bit of a hifi-enthusiast, I bought the album in high resolution online, and to my surprise the sound was just as bad. I was shocked!

I think this must be the worst album so far when it comes to mastering. The sound totally lacks dynamics, and sounds like limiters are working overtime in more intense tracks (opening track is a good example). Drums are compressed and kick drum sounds really odd with a low range boost. Fat sound, but no dynamics and really tiring to listen to. Digital audio can do so much more, we are not using cassettes any more (the sound reminds me a little of a tape with the recording level set too high).

Other albums have been varying in sound quality(WDADU comes to mind , but in this case is seems the input (recorded tracks) was ok, but the dynamics where lost in the mixing/mastering.
Too bad, since the music is top notch (best in the MM-era IMO), but sound quality makes me want to turn it off..

Has nobody else noticed this?

Yes, you’re not the only one. It’s loud and compressed. Not as bad as, say, Metallica’s “Death Magnetic” or RHCP’s “Californication” and not unlistenable, but still a bad master. Definitely tied with D12 as their worst sounding album. And yes, it’s a shame, because Astonishing was one of their better releases in that regard. At the end of the day, though, a lot of people like that in-your-face brickwalled sound, so it is what it is.

[Rallyfinnen]

Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?

As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun

[Adami]

Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.

Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.

[goo-goo]

Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?

As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun

If you get the blu-ray and rip the stereo track off it, you'll be fine and it's miles ahead (sonically speaking) from the HDTracks version.

[WilliamMunny]

Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.

Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.

[/b][/u]

I feel exactly the same way. Bummed that it didn't grab me, and at this point, after multiple revisitings, I am ready to concede that this is just not for me.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I haven't listened to the album in a good minute, and I haven't really been compelled to either. There are some great moments here and there but the overly-compressed production and some of the more lackluster cuts keep me from revisiting it more often than I am. I can kinda just take it or leave it.

[bosk1]

If it's only been a minute, I think you like the album more than you are letting on.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

I have been exposed.   

[Volante99]

Listened to the album again for the first time since I bought it. Wanted to give it another chance.

Yea. Just really boring to me. Even though I’m not a fan of his playing in DT, MM was the best part of the album. Everyone else just feels bored. Like they were contractually obligated to write an album and phoned it in, and thanks to their insane talent, can phone it in better than most. But yea, this is bottom 3 for me I think. Unfortunate. I keep reading how brilliant and genius it is here and wanted to feel that way too.

I wouldn’t go as far to say it sounds like they’re phoning it in. But the whole thing seems a bit rushed. It’s super short and some of the songs seem to need a bit more work and a bit more room to breathe. To me, it sounds more like “shit, we’re contractually obligated to write an album...BEFORE MARCH 2019!!”

I really only go back to Barstool Warrior, At Wit’s End and S2N, the rest is pretty bottom of the DT barrel for me.

In my own prog fantasyland I’d probably take the best/most inspired/proggy musical ideas of the Astonishing, cut out all the fat (and the concept storyline), mix it in a blender with some of the best moments (and efficiency) of D/T,  and spend some time arranging that into 70 minute album, it would be a masterpiece.

[Rallyfinnen]

Thank you for the replies! I asked for a refund from hdtracks too..
Now how can I get a hold of hi res files from the dvd..?

As a side note, one of my favorites when it comes to good music AND decent sound quality is Ark, Burn the sun

If you get the blu-ray and rip the stereo track off it, you'll be fine and it's miles ahead (sonically speaking) from the HDTracks version.

Hdtracks will refund (nice of them).
I have no blu-ray player, and I'm not planning to get one only to be able to get decent quality on one album. Either DOT will be dismissed, or I go searching in the dark corners of the internet..

[Dream Team]

I'm also in the camp where DoT is easily the lowest-ranked MM era album for me. VERY FEW moments of brilliance. Competence, yes. But I don't listen to DT for competence.

[Max Kuehnau]

I'm also in the camp where DoT is easily the lowest-ranked MM era album for me. VERY FEW moments of brilliance. Competence, yes. But I don't listen to DT for competence.

I agree. 2 good pieces (not brilliant) out of 10 (PBD and OOR, it's a pretty good ballad IMHO and PBD is fairly close to greatness too IMHO, it could have had more notes though) isn't a good tally. It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO. Some other moments of nicety (not brilliance) include the Morricone section during FITL and maybe the introductory section of Barstool Warrior IMHO.

[nobloodyname]

It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO.

I literally cannot compute that. Would be lovely to be able to hear what you do. Virtually every song is filler for me.

Back specifically to Distance Over Time: it's not aged so well. I initially thought it was a top five album, now I think I'd rank it in the lower third. Lacks depth. At least they're not slated to be playing much of it in February.

[Max Kuehnau]

It's not ADTOE or DT12 which is all killer no filler IMHO.

I literally cannot compute that. Would be lovely to be able to hear what you do. Virtually every song is filler for me.

Back specifically to Distance Over Time: it's not aged so well. I initially thought it was a top five album, now I think I'd rank it in the lower third. Lacks depth. At least they're not slated to be playing much of it in February.

no no, sorry. I meant ADTOE being all killer no filler IMHO. (and honestly, I can see why fans that are my age or younger love it) DT12 is not entirely like that IMHO, although I love it lots as well. Again, back to D/T, I can somewhat see why people like it a lot though and it's fine with me (i.e D/T not being TA, not being overly long, a lot "straighter" as it were, easier to grasp and all that, being heavier again and all these aspects. I think it did a good job of having fans come back to DT that didn't like TA or DT12, so I think that's a nice achievement as it were)

[nobloodyname]

Ah, gotcha.

Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't

[Max Kuehnau]

Ah, gotcha.

Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't

of course. I'm ready for DT15 now though to be honest.

[bosk1]

Count me in the "all killer/no filler" camp for both albums (ATDOE and DT12).  As I've often said, those are DT's two most consistent albums ever.  Not a single song I dislike on either of them.  Even BAI has plenty of interesting moments.  And while d/t may be a step down from either of those, the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.

[gmillerdrake]

the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.

Yep. there's no denying it

[Max Kuehnau]

Count me in the "all killer/no filler" camp for both albums (ATDOE and DT12).  As I've often said, those are DT's two most consistent albums ever.  Not a single song I dislike on either of them.  Even BAI has plenty of interesting moments.  And while d/t may be a step down from either of those, the stellar quality of music in the MM era has been unprecedented thus far.

very true. (What I meant by "not entirely killer on DT12" was that there is one section on the entire album that I don't think makes sense, so overall it still is all killer no filler ) And yes, I think the level of constant quality in the MM era is unprecedented. I've been a fan since 1998 and I've seen (IMHO) hits and misses in the songwriting (and personal criteria of playing). It hasn't been like that ever since 2010 IMHO. I'm grateful for all these developments (although it may not seem like that on the surface, but I am) And one more thing I've observed: I guess IO are doing a good job of giving our guys the royal treatment for this album and beyond (as it were) that they deserve and have been deserving for a long time already.

[gzarruk]

Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't

I love DT12. Some of the flaws are obvious, like the sound/mixing and mastering choices, but I feel like the songs come from a real place of them trying to make the best album for who they were around that particular time. If feels authentic, and, like Bosk says, it's one of the most consistent DT albums to date.

The songs, while also on the shorter side, have some pretty cool twists and turns on the songwriting aspect and not the technical side; and they definitely crafted these sections carefully to highlight the song, not just noodling for the sake of noodling. And the grooves, oh man, the grooves. As a bassist and drummer, the musical chemistry between MM and JM was a pleasant surprise back then, as it seemed they really worked together to fine tune those bass/drum parts

Also, it was released during a very bad/dark season of my life and it helped me go through it. For the first time I started paying attention to the lyrics and actually connecting with them, and those lyrics meant something special to me at that time (I was 18 back then).

[Max Kuehnau]

Although, of course, just because I can't compute DT12 containing no filler it doesn't mean no-one else can't

I love DT12. Some of the flaws are obvious, like the sound/mixing and mastering choices, but I feel like the songs come from a real place of them trying to make the best album for who they were around that particular time. If feels authentic, and, like Bosk says, it's one of the most consistent DT albums to date.

The songs, while also on the shorter side, have some pretty cool twists and turns on the songwriting aspect and not the technical side; and they definitely crafted these sections carefully to highlight the song, not just noodling for the sake of noodling. And the grooves, oh man, the grooves. As a bassist and drummer, the musical chemistry between MM and JM was a pleasant surprise back then, as it seemed they really worked together to fine tune those bass/drum parts

Also, it was released during a very bad/dark season of my life and it helped me go through it. For the first time I started paying attention to the lyrics and actually connecting with them, and those lyrics meant something special to me at that time (I was 18 back then).

this was what happened to me when ADTOE came out. (DT12 as well actually, coming to think of it)

[Anxiety35]

I stopped listening to it so I wouldn't get burnt out on it. I'd say about a month or so of no D/T. I listened to Pale Blue Dot and At Wits End the other day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[lovethedrake]

It's crazy to me how much I disagree with some of the most recent comments.   The energy on DOT is better than any album since SDOIT to me.   

I really like DT12 and The Astonishing but I feel like they finally produced magic again with the new one.   

I still don't understand the love fest for ADTOE... talk about an album that seems mailed in.   The production is awful and there is literally nothing unique about the album.  They sound like any other neo prog band.   Just long boring bland prog songs and mediocre ballads. 

Breaking All Illusions aside but I still don't even like the vocal melodies on it. 

[lovethedrake]

The DT that truly made DT the cult band phenomenon it was died after TOT.   To call the MM albums an unprecedented run of quality music just seems strange to me.  You can certainly have your opinion but it would be in the MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board.   

I believe the MM albums represent a nice return to form for an aging band that had lost it's way.    Very few people are ranking DT "the greatest prog band of all time" because of ANY album that has come after TOT. 

[bosk1]

The DT that truly made DT the cult band phenomenon it was died after TOT.   To call the MM albums an unprecedented run of quality music just seems strange to me.  You can certainly have your opinion but it would be in the MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board.   

I believe the MM albums represent a nice return to form for an aging band that had lost it's way.    Very few people are ranking DT "the greatest prog band of all time" because of ANY album that has come after TOT. 

You are certainly not alone in feeling that what made you love about DT "died" after [album X].  But "album X" is SO different for so many people.  Ask one person, and they'll say I&W was the last great album.  Another says Awake.  Another said...well, you get the picture.  You can find fans that say that about virtually ANY album in the band's history all the way up to some saying that what made them special died when MP left.  And I'm not knocking that at all.  If you feel that way, you feel that way.  But I have certainly NOT seen that expressed by a majority of fans, on this board or elsewhere.  Your statement that any opinion other than yours is shared by only a "MAJOR minority and likely only shared by a few diehards on this particular message board" isn't supported by anything I have seen on these forums through the years.

[lovethedrake]

Look at the DT by decade poll on this very board.....

It is an overwhelming majority for people liking the music of the 90's the best.

And that is on a sample size of diehard fans that are STILL diehard through 2019.   It also makes sense... the band was in their prime and at their most inspired. 

DT is my favorite band of all time (them and the kinks... I know thats weird) so I don't think they every DIED per se but I think it's a pretty strong majority of people that would rank I&W and SFAM as their two best albums and SDOIT or Awake is usually third. 

Now that is not to say that there are not many people who have other favorites as there definitely are... I just think to call the MM album era an "unprecedented" level of quality is not a realistic viewpoint of the band as a whole.  That implies that there were no other eras that match or surpass the quality of the last 4 albums.   You can definitely have that opinion but it is certainly in the minority of their fanbase.  The bands CLASSIC and most highly rated and respected work came in the 90's.  I also have DoT #4 on my list of DT albums all time so I still very much love them and the direction they are going.   

[Max Kuehnau]

I stopped listening to it so I wouldn't get burnt out on it. I'd say about a month or so of no D/T. I listened to Pale Blue Dot and At Wits End the other day. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

I think these three (including OOR) make for a great "home run" (as it were) of the album, or a good ending. I enjoyed the recent live versions of AWE quite a bit too (more so than the album version if I may say so)

[Lonk]

What I will say about this topic is that D/T has been the easiest album for me to get into. I enjoyed the album from the first time I listened to it, and still do. In fact, the songs I originally did not enjoy got better with time (specially Barstool Warrior). The other 3 MM album took me a while. TA took me a couple of listens (though I rarely revisit much of it nowadays), and ADTOE took me a couple of months before I could consider it a good album. Just recently BMUBMD clicked to me, as much hate as it gets I think its a great song.

DT12 had it's ups and down. During the first week after release, I liked 2 songs (Enemy Inside and Bigger picture, both of which were the reason I got my first 7 string guitar). In the year following it, I learned to appreciated it and I thought every song was good-great. Now if it comes on, I listen to it, but only song I constantly revisit is Surrender to reason, everything else is just ok (to me).

You are certainly not alone in feeling that what made you love about DT "died" after [album X].  But "album X" is SO different for so many people.  Ask one person, and they'll say I&W was the last great album.  Another says Awake.  Another said...well, you get the picture.

Agree with that. I personally don't think DT has any bad albums, just album I personally don't care to listen to as often as others. Based on one of the recent polls, there are some fans who believe 2000-2009 were DT best years, even though the sentiment for most here is that those were their dark ages.

[lovethedrake]

Please keep in mind that I never said DT as a band died after TOT... I simply said and implied the "holy of all holy legendary cult phenomenon band known as DT." died after TOT.     

There is not a single DT album that I don't enjoy so I happily listen to their entire catalogue, but the band became a thing of legend because of albums that Mike Portnoy was on, not because of the solid run of MM albums. 

Also, don't forget that SDOIT and TOT were also included on that 2000-2009 poll and those albums are not lumped into the "dark ages".

Regardless though... the MM era has the least amount of votes for "favorite decade" which is exactly what I have been discussing here. 

[bosk1]

Look at the DT by decade poll on this very board.....

It is an overwhelming majority for people liking the music of the 90's the best.

Yes.  But feeling that a particular era is their "best" is not the same as disliking other eras or feeling that the band "lost their way" (I thought you said "died," which is why I used quotes, but you actually said "lost their way," so my mistake) after that.  A lot of people who voted in that poll and said that they voted for that era expressed that they love other eras as well.  So it's not accurate to say that a majority feel that they lost their way afterward.  That really isn't accurate.

(not to mention that 86 votes isn't a large enough sample to be representative of a message board that has had something like 15,000 members)

[lovethedrake]

I like every decade by DT,  I like some decades far more than others.

I was commenting on the "unprecedented run of quality by MM albums" comment you made.   That is in the minority of this fanbase.

The poll shows it and its just obvious that their classic albums are before MM got here.   

[KevShmev]

Minor quibbles aside, I agree in spirit with lovethedrake.  I am a big fan of all four albums they have done with Mangini, and not many bands can say their 11th through 14th studio albums as a 4-album run is as good as ADTOE, DT12, TA and D/T, but they are prog metal legends (by and large) because of 1992-2002.  I won't say they ever lost their way, but there was definitely some slippage the last few years of the Portnoy era, and I think it's clear that his departure combined with the addition of Mangini gave them the kick in the pants that they were needing.

[lovethedrake]

Very well said KevShmev. 

I did say that the band of legend known as DT "died" after TOT and that is probably where Bosk is getting hung up on here.

I don't have anything to back that comment up.

I kind of think of TOT as the black album for DT,  bridges the gap between classic DT and the shift in direction.