Author Topic: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread  (Read 32186 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1400 on: March 14, 2019, 09:35:01 AM »
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists.  Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.

:rollin  I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1401 on: March 14, 2019, 09:56:33 AM »
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.

Yup, Don't understand this criticism at all. Emotion is basically the ONLY thing he can bring these days, power and range are history.
Say what! James shows Alot of power and range on the last four albums. Listen to S2N and Untethered Angel and tell me again that he has no power or range.  If anything, he was way more limited on BC&SL than all of the Mangini era albums.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 10:23:00 AM by Architeuthis »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1402 on: March 14, 2019, 10:24:33 AM »
Hmmmm...He does display a range of emotions in The Astonishing.

Yup, Don't understand this criticism at all. Emotion is basically the ONLY thing he can bring these days, power and range are history.
Say what! James shows Alot of power and range on the last four albums. Listen to S2N and Untethered Angel and tell me again that he has no power or range.  If anything, he was way more limited on BC&SL than all of the Mangini era albums.

Yeah, I agree.  I somehow missed that comment.  But I don't know how in the world anyone can say he has no power or range.
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Online TheGreatPretender

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1403 on: March 14, 2019, 10:27:45 AM »
Yeah, I really don't understand where any of the criticism for James is coming from. I mean, at the very least in the studio setting, he's been sounding absolutely fantastic. And it's not just autotune or something, the emotion and style and the energy he brings into his performances isn't something that can be digitally enhanced.
Between The Astonishing, and the other stuff he's been doing lately, like his appearances on Rik Emmet's album, Ayreon, and Last Union, he's been absolutely knocking it out of the park! And that very much stays the case for D/T. Yes, a few of the parts on the new album have some effects on his vocals, but that's also true for A Dark Eternal Night, and it's a creative choice. There are also plenty of songs on D/T where he's just singing cleanly, with his natural voice, and it sounds fantastic.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1404 on: March 14, 2019, 10:59:28 AM »
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists.  Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.

:rollin  I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.

I actually like Nicolas Cage a lot, and "no range at all" is hyperbolic and unfair.  He does a great "mopey sad everyman" and also a great "batshit insane everyman" and even a few things in between.

Maybe I'm not feeling it because it's always the same.  I listened to DoT again last night.  There's the pleading voice, the aggressive voice, the breathy little-girl voice, a few others, and I guess he's doing them well (lots of people seem to like them).  But I don't hear James pleading, I hear him singing words he didn't write using the "pleading voice".  I don't hear James being angry, I hear James singing words he didn't write using his "angry voice".  And so on.  It just doesn't move me.  I don't hear actual emotion, though I do hear a singer projecting emotion, if that makes any sense.  That why I thought of the parallel to acting.  No, the actor is not actually sad or angry or happy or whatever, but he should be able to make you see a character who is sad or angry or happy, not some guy acting sad or angry or happy.  That's the part that's hard to describe.  I just don't feel the performance.  I don't feel the character; I am 100% aware that it's all a performance.

The music, on the other hand, is amazing.  JP's tone is incredible.  He takes a solo and I'm in bliss for the next 30-45 seconds or whatever it is.  The band goes into one of their patented DT jams, and I have to remember that I'm driving my car at the same time because suddenly I'm not sitting in a car, I'm sitting in a room with four phenomenal musicians and they're tearing the place apart.

Then the vocals come back in and I'm actually driving a car, listening to a guy sing words he didn't write and trying to sound like he means them.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1405 on: March 14, 2019, 11:03:04 AM »
I understand what you are saying.  You are describing it well.  I do NOT understand why you feel that way, because I don't feel anything close to that.  I don't at all get the vibe of a singer singing words he didn't write and failing to emotionally connect with them.  But that's okay--I don't need to.  I enjoy it and I do feel the emotion in the songs. 
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Online lovethedrake

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1406 on: March 14, 2019, 01:30:08 PM »
Disagree with the comments on James lacking emotion but totally agree that the Nicolas Cage insults are unfair!

Cage has a ton of range and is actually a pretty great actor.  He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.


Online gzarruk

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1407 on: March 14, 2019, 08:08:36 PM »
Right. He's great on The Astonishing.

You could say he's... astonishing.









 :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1408 on: March 14, 2019, 10:14:19 PM »
He's like the Nicolas Cage of vocalists.  Great if you like what he does, but no range at all.

:rollin  I completely disagree with you, but that's a great description.



Maybe I'm not feeling it because it's always the same.  I listened to DoT again last night.  There's the pleading voice, the aggressive voice, the breathy little-girl voice,

 Oh c'mon man,  Faythe had to sing at least one song on the new album. Didn't you realise she is part of the band now ?
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1409 on: March 14, 2019, 10:53:28 PM »
He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.

The movies Nicolas Cage is in are terrible largely because he is in them.
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Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1410 on: March 15, 2019, 12:59:28 AM »
He just does a ton of terrible movies to feed his spending addiction.

The movies Nicolas Cage is in are terrible largely because he is in them.
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Offline Moor

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1411 on: March 15, 2019, 03:44:59 AM »
A quick tip to realize how much the production/mix of this album has improved:
Just compare the intros of BAI and Barstool Warrior!
WOW

Offline Rammstein

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1412 on: March 15, 2019, 09:28:03 AM »
Funny that you mention this specific comparison, because I did the same thing yesterday  :omg:. I did it, because the intro of BW reminded me a lot of the intro riff form BAI.

One thing I have to critize about the otherwise excellent mix is, that in some party the keys are too low. this has been a thing since forever for DT, but songs like Viper King have such a great organ playing, it is a shame that you can only here it loudly at the intro and the solo. When you listen to the instrumental track, you start to realize how important the organ is in the chorus for example. You can hear it on the normal version, but the guitars drown it

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1413 on: March 15, 2019, 09:50:28 AM »
I would much prefer the keys to be lower in the mix, especially during the verses and rhythm sections on a guitar driven song.  That's why it's Rock-n-Roll..   
This is part of the reason why d/t sounds so good, they got it right!   :tup
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1414 on: March 15, 2019, 09:53:28 AM »
Yeah, from day 1, DT has been a metal band that is centered around the guitars, with the keys playing a supporting role.  Unless a particular song or part of a song is meant to feature the keys out in front, they will always be seen as a background, supporting instrument in this band.  Don't get me wrong--they are a VERY important part of the band's sound.  And JP considers the guitars AND keyboards to be the lead compositional components of the band's sound.  But they are a slight second place behind the guitars.
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Offline dream416

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1415 on: March 15, 2019, 09:59:30 AM »
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!!  :metal :metal

Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1416 on: March 15, 2019, 11:08:14 AM »
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!!  :metal :metal

You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.

B.Lee
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1417 on: March 15, 2019, 11:09:29 AM »
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!!  :metal :metal

You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.

B.Lee

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Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII

>>>>Its a great record.

Online Trav86

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1418 on: March 15, 2019, 11:31:51 AM »
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!!  :metal :metal

You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.

B.Lee
For me (not counting the ACOS EP):

Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII

>>>>Its a great record.

Out of curiosity, where would you put ACOS?
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Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1419 on: March 15, 2019, 01:32:45 PM »
After multiple listens......This album kicks serious ass!!!!!!!  :metal :metal

You said it! After three weeks listening to D/T every day, I still rank it 4 in their discography.

B.Lee

For me (not counting the ACOS EP):

Images
Awake
SFAM
DoT
FII

>>>>Its a great record.

We have the same first 4! My number 5 is ToT and 6 is FII. I don't rank ACOS because as you said it, it's an EP.
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Offline emtee

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1420 on: March 15, 2019, 01:44:48 PM »
I'm feeling pretty much the same. It's up there with the upper echelon, in
the formerly untouchable tier. The stellar production enhances the greatness
of the songs. I would pay again for ADToE, DT12 and TA if they could be released
sounding like this.

Awake/I&W
DoT/SFaM/FII/SDoiT



Offline Bertielee

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1421 on: March 15, 2019, 01:55:27 PM »
I'm feeling pretty much the same. It's up there with the upper echelon, in
the formerly untouchable tier. The stellar production enhances the greatness
of the songs. I would pay again for ADToE, DT12 and TA if they could be released
sounding like this.

Awake/I&W
DoT/SFaM/FII/SDoiT

Great to see you found new interest in the band, emtee. :tup
"Life is divided into two sets of people : people who have lost and people who haven't yet." George Michael

Offline rumborak

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1422 on: March 15, 2019, 02:31:03 PM »
My take on the vocals discussion is, I agree with Orbert's statement that the vocals rarely exceed "being there" status on D/T, but I disagree on the reason why. Yes, James can not sing those crazy notes anymore, but IMO he shouldn't have to rely on those shenanigans to have an outstanding performance. My real beef is rather with the melodies themselves he is singing. They often add very little harmonically or rhythmically.

It's a real shame, because James was the clear VIP on TA, which shows that with good melodies he can deliver big time.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 02:37:38 PM by rumborak »
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1423 on: March 15, 2019, 03:16:28 PM »
The melodies are pretty boring.  I guess that's rolled up in the whole thing, but I probably should've mentioned that separately, too.  I never cried over him not being able to hit the high notes or wail like he used to.  Others brought that up.  What bothered me most was that he's just become boring.  The melodies follow the tonics and chords in a pedestrian way and aren't very imaginative.  The choruses sound the same as they've been for several albums now.  Between that and the tentative delivery which robs things of any emotion, I'm just not digging it.

On the other hand, I listened to it yet again on the way to work this morning, and I'm starting to hear a little more emotion.  I think.  It still seems really subdued, but maybe that's because he's not wailing like he used to so he has to emote in other ways.

So who knows?  Maybe this will be the one where my ears finally adjust to how James does things now.  The music continues to intrigue me.  I've already played this album more than anything since Six Degrees.

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1424 on: March 15, 2019, 04:21:06 PM »
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs, which would be absurd, and on top of that I think he'd want to start running the show again and I don't think the guys would want that. DT has been able to progress in so many ways because of MPs departure - primarily in their connection with the fans and their live shows. Their show production is 10000% better and now that they're playing to click tracks, everything is synced much better. They can have backing tracks play, videos line up with the songs, the light show is consistent and perfect every time. Not being able to watch MP put his hand up in the air randomly during songs or throw sticks into the front row is a small price to pay.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1425 on: March 15, 2019, 04:27:09 PM »
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs...

Yeah, this should be in another thread.  But I'll just say this:  I would not just assume that he would not be willing to play anything from the MM era.  I think, by and large, he would likely be fine with it.  He probably would not be able to play some of it exactly the way MM plays it, but that's fine.  He could easily reinterpret the drum parts and it would be fine.  There are lots of reasons to believe he would not or should not come back.  But I don't believe this is one of them.

Mike Portnoy has legitimate flaws you can point to.  But being a hypocrite is not one of them, at least as far as I have seen.  Refusing to play songs because they were written by someone who would then be a former member, while he regularly had other members of the band play songs that were done when their respective predecessors were in the band would be hypocritical.  But he seemed to think nothing of James singing songs written when Charlie was in the band, or having Jordan play songs written when KM or Derek were in the band.  I really don't think this would be much of a problem for him.
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Online fadetoblackdude7

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1426 on: March 15, 2019, 04:38:01 PM »
What Bosk said sums it up. MP is a professional, he would play them. Especially if the fans demand certain songs from the MM era.

Offline TAC

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1427 on: March 15, 2019, 04:39:14 PM »
Plus it's not like he'd have a say in the matter anyway. I'm sure that would all be ironed out. JP, with the MM era setlists has shown great respect to the entire catalog.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online lovethedrake

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1428 on: March 15, 2019, 07:36:22 PM »
I have D/T ranked 5th in their Catalogue:

SFAM
I&W
SDOIT
Awake
D/T

It is truly a VERY fun album.  I think it may have been bosk who said before the album came out.... it may not really bring anything crazily new, but it's just a very good record from start to finish. 

At Wit's End is my favorite DT song since Six Degrees.  It is truly fantastic and has the "magic" of classic DT.

Also, the "anchor away" part of BW was a big problem for me but now I am actually looking forward to it.

I find myself skipping UA and R137 now... and FITL I pretty much just listen to for the magical middle part but the rest of the album just doesn't get old to me.

I still like UA, R137 and especially FITL but the other tracks just seems so fresh to me still.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1429 on: March 15, 2019, 07:52:23 PM »
If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.
What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.
Not to get off topic, but this is exactly why I don't think it could ever work. If MP came back, he would not want to play any MM era songs...

Yeah, this should be in another thread.  But I'll just say this:  I would not just assume that he would not be willing to play anything from the MM era.  I think, by and large, he would likely be fine with it.  He probably would not be able to play some of it exactly the way MM plays it, but that's fine.  He could easily reinterpret the drum parts and it would be fine.  There are lots of reasons to believe he would not or should not come back.  But I don't believe this is one of them.

Mike Portnoy has legitimate flaws you can point to.  But being a hypocrite is not one of them, at least as far as I have seen.  Refusing to play songs because they were written by someone who would then be a former member, while he regularly had other members of the band play songs that were done when their respective predecessors were in the band would be hypocritical.  But he seemed to think nothing of James singing songs written when Charlie was in the band, or having Jordan play songs written when KM or Derek were in the band.  I really don't think this would be much of a problem for him.

You're absolutely right about everything except MP has said that he wouldn't want to play any MM songs.

I'd have to search for the interview which I don't really feel like doing but it was during the PSMS era when he wanted to play Acid Rain and Mike said something to Derek along the lines of, "I get it. I wouldn't want to play any parts of the person that replaced me but the fans would love it."

So the only thing we know on record is that Mike has no interest in that. He could change his mind but this is where it stands now.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1430 on: March 15, 2019, 09:38:42 PM »
That does sound familiar, now that you mention it.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1431 on: March 15, 2019, 10:33:13 PM »
I’m kinda 50/50 on whether MP would play Mangini era stuff if he ever came back. Bosk makes a good point about him insisting on JLB and JR play earlier material but I think he considers DT to be his band and he may consider anything recorded without him to not be DT. I’ve got a feeling he would basically say something like he would find it too heartbreaking to play DT stuff recorded while he was out of the band. Would be interesting to see though.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1432 on: March 15, 2019, 10:43:57 PM »
I’m kinda 50/50 on whether MP would play Mangini era stuff if he ever came back. Bosk makes a good point about him insisting on JLB and JR play earlier material but I think he considers DT to be his band and he may consider anything recorded without him to not be DT. I’ve got a feeling he would basically say something like he would find it too heartbreaking to play DT stuff recorded while he was out of the band. Would be interesting to see though.

But JLB and JR play stuff that was recorded BEFORE they entered the band, and are still in the band. For MP, coming back and playing stuff that was written AFTER he left would feel weird. As said above, he stated that it would be like asking Derek to play Jordan's DT songs, which he probably would not be interested in doing. Heck, DS has even gone on record as saying that he wants to get away from playing DT music in general, even stuff he wrote with the band.

It would be very awkward, I think, hearing him play anything that was written with MM in the band, not that he couldn't do it, or do it his way, but just because it was released as a band without him in it. Maybe if there was just ONE song the band insisted on playing from the MM-era if MP rejoined, he might concede to that, which reminds me of Steve Howe, who I think wasn't very keen on the Yes West material, but was convinced to be play "Owner Of A Lonely Heart", a song released by Yes but with his successor Trevor Rabin, who has a distinctly different sound and style, but Steve plays it anyway.

So who knows... I don't think MP or the band are really looking to reunite in any capacity that would be beyond a single night, or even a single song. Baby steps, though, as having JR and MP on the same stage again at Cruise To The Edge was, I think, the first time any of the current DT members have been on stage with MP since 2010. It may have taken nine years, but we might see MP with JP or the rest of DT on a stage again before they all call it a day. With the recent news that Nick Mason got tired of waiting for the call for a Pink Floyd reunion that never happened, I don't see MP ever truly closing that door if the others were open to it, but I don't feel like now (or any time soon) is the right time. Maybe for DT's 40th anniversary in 2025?

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Offline DoctorAction

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1433 on: March 16, 2019, 01:46:47 AM »
I don't care about MP coming back, and it's way off topic.

D/T has settled and revealed for me just as I had hoped. I'm singing along with it in the car, loving the vocals. The instrumental sections are nuts and a little more concise. MM sounds like a powerhouse. The production could be the best they've ever had. And it sounds so energised and fun! I still can't quite believe it. This was really a make or break release for me as 8VM was the last album i enjoyed by them before this. Bravo, still.

Hoping to catch them on tour in the UK at some point.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1434 on: March 16, 2019, 02:20:35 AM »
Me when I see there's yet another MP vs MM discussion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZxWg0sw_BI