Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[Lonk]

Track by track - Pale Blue Dot

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1Faxc8EUWUk

Fixed your link, as it starts 311 seconds in.

Great insight into the song here! Gotta love how they purposely arranged the chaotic middle section!

-Marc.

Thank you for fixing the link you the real MVP!

It is a great video though. Made me appreciate the song a lot more.

[bosk1]

[bill1971]

I think I've settled down a bit on the new album. While it is solid, maybe the best Mangini era album, probably at least tied with ADTOE, it is still middle of the road for DT. Yes, they're 14 albums in, over 30+ years, but after two stale/bloated albums this one had to be great. In light of that, looking back at the last 4 albums, I can't help but feel something is missing, like taking Jon Fishman out of Phish, or Lars out of Metallica, or even a non-founding member like Neil Peart out of Rush, etc... you can't imagine it any other way, I'm not even the biggest fan of Rush's later material but I couldn't imagine them without Peart. Yes, I like DOT, but after almost 2 weeks with the album, I'm already over it. Same thing with the last 3 albums, maybe a little more time with ADTOE. I'm still going to revisit these albums, of course, I just mean the lust is over and I'm back to wishing MP was back. Even with the later albums with MP I'd still gush over them for months, especially Black Clouds. I'd gladly have DT take a chance with a new singer if it meant MP came back. I'm over the 'JLB is the voice of the band' narrative. I'm fine listening to Ozzy or Dio, Paul or Bruce, Roth or Hagar, etc... being as that's what seems to be the issue of MP ever coming back. I'm not even knocking Mike Mangini, he's a fine drummer, I might not be into his style as much as many other drummers out there metal or otherwise, but he does a fine job with the material he's given, but I miss the groove in DT's music that I don't think MM has. I've said elsewhere, MM is a metal drummer first, and I'm not a fan of the 'sound' of the drums on any of the albums he's been on, even DOT.

tl;dr I think the band shines more when there is pressure to put on a good album (ADTOE, DOT) but if those 2 albums are as good as it's going to get, well I guess that makes me a semi-casual DT fan, sad to say. If they changed their name after MP left I probably wouldn't be as critical. To me, MP is the DT drummer like Peart is the Rush drummer, and these last 4 albums have been a side project under the DT banner.

Vector is the worst Haken album.

Have to agree with this. While there were flashes of brilliance, I didn't think a lot of it was very good (haven't listened to it since the time it came out)

I would agree with you if Petrucci left. Without MP, DT still sounds like DT but without Petrucci there is no DT. If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.

[erwinrafael]

So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?"

[Madman Shepherd]

So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?"

From what little I've listened to, yup. That's pretty much my take.

[Architeuthis]

So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?"

Some of his stuff is, some isn't.  The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure"  are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy.  When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood.  Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. 

[erwinrafael]

One of the songs I listened to was The Great Adventure. It's not the lyrics per se, but the music. I have an officemate who plays gospel music the whole day and the TGA song is really at home with that genre. It's good, I just did not expect it.

[EPIC Outro]

One of the songs I listened to was The Great Adventure. It's not the lyrics per se, but the music. I have an officemate who plays gospel music the whole day and the TGA song is really at home with that genre. It's good, I just did not expect it.

Try "Fighting With Destiny." It's sweet.

[The Letter M]

CRAP!   I thought I had pre-ordered the boxed set through Amazon, but apparently I pre-ordered the vinyl only.   

Really disappointed, but I *did* want the vinyl anyway.   Just thought I would be getting it as a part of the whole boxed set package, and now I only have it as a stand-alone.    Really pissed at myself for not just pre-ordering from the official website before they sold out.   

  OOF...that sucks, but hopefully you can return it. I guess my post about the box set going on sale to $119.99 on Amazon a couple months back in this thread got buried under the talk around "Fall Into The Light". It was made available again after the release date for that price, but it was back-ordered, and now the price has gone back up to $149.99 (last I saw). Either way, hopefully you are able to get the box set in, it really is a beautiful set.

The vinyl in the box set, however, has a different cover, so if you're a vinyl collector, and you can afford to keep it, the regular vinyl has the normal cover on it while the box set vinyl has the red cover (with white vinyl discs).

-Marc.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Right, ITPOE was first for SC

That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?

-Marc.

If I remember correctly, I Walk Beside You was originally written in the TOT sessions, but was omitted because it didn't fit with the rest of the album (thus making it the first song written for Octa).

If we go by the demo track-lists as the writing order (which I don't know why they'd be in any other order), we can also figure out the first songs written for the classic albums:

WD&DU: Afterlife
I&W: Metropolis
Awake: Scarred
FII: Take Away My Pain (or Raise The Knife if you wanna be technical)
SFAM: the 20 minute instrumental demo (which included elements of Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Dance Of Eternity and One Last Time)
TOT: In The Name Of God

After that it gets tricky.
I've already mentioned how (if memory serves) IWBY was the first song written for Octa.
The making of SC documentary also points out that ITPOE was the first song written for that album (though technically they probably wrote Part I first).
As stated earlier, it's been confirmed that STR was the first song written for DT12.
& it's been confirmed that AWE was the first song written for DOT.

That leaves SDOIT, BC&SL, ADTOE and TA, which I don't have a clue on. If anyone has any other leads, I'd be interested to know.

[The Letter M]

Right, ITPOE was first for SC

That's what I thought, and I'm also pretty sure that "In The Name Of God" was the first song written during the TOT sessions as well. I'm not so sure about SDOIT, 8VM, and BC&SL, though. Anyone know about those albums' first songs written?

-Marc.

If I remember correctly, I Walk Beside You was originally written in the TOT sessions, but was omitted because it didn't fit with the rest of the album (thus making it the first song written for Octa).

If we go by the demo track-lists as the writing order (which I don't know why they'd be in any other order), we can also figure out the first songs written for the classic albums:

WD&DU: Afterlife
I&W: Metropolis
Awake: Scarred
FII: Take Away My Pain (or Raise The Knife if you wanna be technical)
SFAM: the 20 minute instrumental demo (which included elements of Overture 1928, Strange Deja Vu, Home, The Dance Of Eternity and One Last Time)
TOT: In The Name Of God

After that it gets tricky.
I've already mentioned how (if memory serves) IWBY was the first song written for Octa.
The making of SC documentary also points out that ITPOE was the first song written for that album (though technically they probably wrote Part I first).
As stated earlier, it's been confirmed that STR was the first song written for DT12.
& it's been confirmed that AWE was the first song written for DOT.

That leaves SDOIT, BC&SL, ADTOE and TA, which I don't have a clue on. If anyone has any other leads, I'd be interested to know.

Cool, thanks for that! As for IAW, yes, Metropolis was written before the IAW sessions, but my question was about the first song written DURING new album sessions, disregarding any material written prior that would be resurrected for a new album (as they always seem to revive riffs or grooves they wrote while on the road).

This post has prompted me to look at my Ytse Jam Records demo discs and read MP's liner notes, and it does seem that after Metropolis, both TTT and LTL were written next.

In the Awake demos, MP states that Scarred, Raise The Knife, The Glass Prison, In The Name Of God, and Sacrificed Sons "were all the first tracks written for their respective albums."

Guess that leaves BC&SL, ADTOE and TA. If I had to guess, I would say either ANTR or TCOT was written first.

-Marc.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Ah, I misunderstood your question then. I thought what you meant was "out of all the songs on the album, which was written first?".

That clarification does bring up the question of SFAM though, since the demo was written in the FII sessions & not the SFAM sessions.

[The Letter M]

Ah, I misunderstood your question then. I thought what you meant was "out of all the songs on the album, which was written first?".

That clarification does bring up the question of SFAM though, since the demo wasn't written in the FII sessions & not the SFAM sessions.

No worries. Also, I think your last sentence meant to say that the Metropolis Part 2 demo WAS written in the FII sessions? I think SFAM was just expanded upon, but in the Making of SFAM liner notes, MP says that SDV was the first piece of music the band wrote with Jordan, so I think that counts.

As for ADTOE, according to this interview, OTBOA was the first song written for the album, although John has said that BTS and TITL were songs he had written beforehand and brought for the band to finish.

I couldn't find any interviews or articles that stated which BC&SL song was written first, though. So to recap...

Afterlife
Metropolis (sort of, the making of IAW had a long history)
Scarred
Raise The Knife
Strange Déja Vu (technically speaking)
The Glass Prison
In The Name Of God
Sacrificed Sons
In The Presence Of Enemies
?
On The Backs Of Angel's
Surrender To Reason
?
At Wit's End

So yeah, the whole "first song written tends to be long" thing kind of held up, even after MP left, given that OTBOA is nearly 9 minutes, and AWE is over 9 minutes.

-Marc.

[?]

There's also the Top Album Sales chart. Basically, what the Billboard 200 was before introducing Album Equivalent Units. It counts physical and digital sales, but not streaming.

On this chart, Distance Over Time debuted at #5 in the US.
https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

While D/T did better than TA in terms of chart position in the album sales chart, it sold 19,575 copies in the first week, which is approximately 10K less than the first-week sales of TA.

As for the album itself, after a few listens I find myself enjoying At Wit's End, Out of Reach and Viper King (incidentally, the songs with JLB's lyrics ), and while I respect TA as an experiment, going back to a more band-oriented sound and making a more compact album was definitely the right move. When it comes to the rest of the songs, I'm not really feeling it, but that's probably got more to do with my taste in music, which has gone through changes, than the quality of the album itself. If this had come out instead of S/T in 2013, I might've loved it, but I'm not sure I'm totally in the right headspace for new DT music anymore.

[Volante99]

Has anyone heard the song “The Old Me” by Memphis May Fire? The riff and verse sounds verrrrry similar to Paralyzed. Probably coincidence but ooof

[SeRoX]

James shared a rehearsal scene from the studio via Twitter. 

I hope we have a kickass DoT World Tour.

[Max Kuehnau]

This tour will be great I'm sure. I'll be even more excited if and when James were to share a photo about the stage design too.

[PetFish]

I would agree with you if Petrucci left. Without MP, DT still sounds like DT but without Petrucci there is no DT.

Yep.  Vocals/Lead Guitar are the toughest things to replace.

If MP came back I would be VERY disappointed.

What would really suck if this were to happen is that you know they'd never be able to play anything from the Mangini era not necessarily due to skills but due to ego and pride.

[darkshade]

I don't know, no one thought MP was replaceable before he left. Post-MP Dream Theater sounds like a hybrid of JLB solo albums but with JP and JR anyway, so I think JP is replaceable at this point, but not when MP was in the band. The combination of MP and JP/JM is the core of the DT sound to me, and MP/JP/JR is the feel of post-Moore DT, can't do much about KM leaving.

ADTOE and DOT are the best we'll get in the modern era, and while they're solid efforts, I have trouble thinking of them as Dream Theater and more like John Petrucci & Friends, a brand to market. Is current Opeth really just Mikael A and friends? Later Megadeth? Is post Ozzy Sabbath really Tony Iommi solo albums?

Edit: In light of that, I have to say, Barstool Warrior might be the best tune since Octavarium the song, just listened to it again, man that song does hit it out of the park, even if it has a few flaws. At Wit's End is growing on me. I actually think Untethered Angel is one of the better songs on the album as well, wasn't a fan of it when it was the lead single, and Fall Into The Light is still pretty good, I like the middle section a lot.

[lovethedrake]

No JP equals no DT to me.   I love Portnoy but drums are replaceable.   

I cannot fathom DT continuing without JP.

D/T is absolutely a Dream Theater album despite my love for Portnoy. 

I love every song on the album outside of Room 137 and UA but I still like Room 137 and think UA is ok also.

[SjundeInseglet]

Post-MP Dream Theater sounds like a hybrid of JLB solo albums but with JP and JR anyway"

No, it sounds like Dream Theater.

[erwinrafael]

Breaking All Illusions, Illumination Theory, and At Wit's End does not remotely sound like a hybrid of JLB solo with JP and JR anyway.

[gzarruk]

JP has been the main music and lyric writer since the very beginning of the band. MP was a very important part of the band, definitely, but John has always been the main guy in DT. There's no way we could say MP's contributions amount the same, or more, than JP's.

Btw, I'm not, at all, diminishing MP's role in the band for 25 years, he was a BIG part of DT, and I totally acknowledge and respect that. He poured his whole being into DT and that's what got him burnt out imo. I'm only saying that, as big of a role MP had in DT, JP's role was always bigger/more significant, only he wasn't as vocal/loud about it.

[Dedalus]

MP was a big part of DT, but not as a major songwriter. Because he isn't a major songwriter. And this isn't a demerit from him.

If Alex and Geddy wanted to continue Rush with another drummer, and if they make a new album, it would sound like Rush. Different drumming. Completely different lyrics. But songwriting, it would be totally Rush.

[Volante99]

Breaking All Illusions, Illumination Theory, and At Wit's End does not remotely sound like a hybrid of JLB solo with JP and JR anyway.

I think he is just trying to say he’s a big Mike Portnoy fan haha. He’s definitely exaggerating but that said, the chorus of At Wit’s End would feel right at home on a JLB solo album.

MP and his playing style was a HUGE component to DT’s sound and they haven’t been the same since but the basic sound is still there. I would say JP and JLB are the most irreplaceable band members. If either of those two are out, you might as well call it a different band.

[TL]

Just as a thought, if anyone here knows anything about editing Wikipedia articles, someone should probably add their #5 on the Top Album Sales chart to the Distance Over Time Wikipedia page.
I would, but I took a glance at it, and it's different from how I remember.

Here's the link to the chart. https://www.billboard.com/charts/top-album-sales

It feels like something that should be included.

[darkshade]

MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it. Everything about JP leaving and it may as well be a different band is what I'm saying now. I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together. It's a main reason I find Neal Morse's work with Portnoy to be much stronger than without, and Neal is an excellent song writer. That's just my take, I'm harsher on the new DT because it sounds like a DT-side project.

[Cool Chris]

MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.

I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!

[Dedalus]

If MP could contribute to the arrangements of Beethoven's ninth symphony, it would certainly be much better.

[tristl]

So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?"

Some of his stuff is, some isn't.  The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure"  are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy.  When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood.  Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. 

For me they feel very preachy, I stopped listen to TGA after three songs, could not stand it.
Will try it again in a few weeks

[tristl]

After listening for two weeks almost constantly to D/T, I went back to the complete catalogue over the weekend chronologically, actually I replaced WDaDu with the reunite live version, otherwise original CDs and I have to say, I am very happy beeing a DT fanboy.
In my opinion they developed in the right direction, there is no album I can’t listen to and three of the last four (I am not so fond of DT12) are in the top six.
Just bought tickets for the the concert in June in Dresden, it is a pity there are no M&G tickets yet

[gzarruk]

So I sampled some NMB because of this thread, and I ended up with the impression, "gospel music?"

Some of his stuff is, some isn't.  The two BIG albums "Similitude of a Dream" and "The Great Adventure"  are accessible to the average listener without getting preachy.  When I listen to those two albums, I don't even think about a religious overtone. I just hear great rockin music that puts me in a good mood.  Heck, MP doesn't necessarily share the same beliefs as Neal Morse but he loves the music enough to want to keep rocking with the band.. 

For me they feel very preachy, I stopped listen to TGA after three songs, could not stand it.
Will try it again in a few weeks

They don’t feel too preachy or too in your face religious to me, but I’m a Christian, so I might be biased

[darkshade]

MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.

I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!

When I say that, I'm not saying "song writer", I mean composing all the wild and best compositions DT has created was not done by one person.

[KevShmev]

When I say that, I'm not saying "song writer", I mean composing all the wild and best compositions DT has created was not done by one person.

John Petrucci has proven that he can write songs from start to finish, music and lyrics, with no help from anyone else.

Mike Portnoy cannot say that. 

[bill1971]

MP's skill was also in the arrangement department, and influencing what the other players played and how they played it... I never found JP or JR to be great composers, but they had good ideas that needed that MP 'filter' to put it all together.

I pretty much disagree with that 100%. But that's what makes this forum great I guess!

I disagree as well. The way MP described how much he did in the band when ADTOE came out I expected it to be just a bunch of random chords and notes strung together.