Author Topic: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread  (Read 98138 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2205 on: October 22, 2020, 01:15:22 PM »
To me, every album up through Octavarium had elements that were new, different, and/or surprising.  For what I believe are probably obvious reasons, I would also put The Astonishing into that category as well.  SC and BCSL didn't have that.  And that's okay--they were still solid albums. 

Coming into the Mangini era, ADTOE, DT12, and DoT don't really have that "new, different, and/or surprising" element either.  I would say that they all feel very "safe" in terms of the writing--not a lot that is new or different, but just DT doing what they do best, and doing it well.  And that's ok.  Heck, both ADTOE and DT12 are in my top 5 DT albums of all time, so I am absolutely not knocking albums being "safe"--especially so deep into the band's career.  They obviously are going to have an established sound by now, and also pretty obviously aren't going to significantly deviate from it too often. 

To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12  for me.  But it is still a really good album.  It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality.  Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me. 
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2206 on: October 22, 2020, 02:32:01 PM »
To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12  for me.  But it is still a really good album.  It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality.  Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2207 on: October 22, 2020, 02:35:10 PM »
That thought seems legit.  I think DT wanted to play things safe with MM and then felt comfortable to explore more and kind of got burned by the fanbase for that and went back to safe.  All good albums IMO, but I do wonder if they'll try something different for next time.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2208 on: October 22, 2020, 02:38:45 PM »
That thought seems legit.  I think DT wanted to play things safe with MM and then felt comfortable to explore more and kind of got burned by the fanbase for that and went back to safe.  All good albums IMO, but I do wonder if they'll try something different for next time.
I'd welcome it. I liked TA for what it was, and it was done well. Bosk is right though.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2209 on: October 22, 2020, 05:02:33 PM »

To bring this back to DoT, after having it for awhile now, it doesn't quite rise to the level of ADTOE or DT12  for me.  But it is still a really good album.  It shows the band continuing to do what they do well, and continuing to write new music of the highest quality.  Whether or not it is groundbreaking, makes me sit up and go "oh, wow--this is different," or cracks some arbitrary "all time" list isn't really relevant to me.

Yeah I dont get it either. The whole " well theres nothing on this album they havent done before so its lame " mentality.

Does it have good songs ? YES/NO

Secondly is it well produced ?

Everything else is Tertiary.

After 35 years i'm glad they can still write albums like Distance Over Time and aren't just doing their most successful album again and again and again for easy $$$

Offline darkshade

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2210 on: October 22, 2020, 05:24:05 PM »
Well, if I remember correctly - I&W, FII, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT and Mangini era.

For me, all those pre-Mangini albums, plus Train of Thought and Octavarium as well. Things started getting weird on SC and the band hasn't been the same since, and as someone highly critical of the Mangini era, I fail to see how it was Portnoy's fault for the decline in the last 15 years. Him leaving didn't improve things in my eyes/ears, in fact, things slowly got worse. I'd have taken 3 or 4 more albums like SC or Black Clouds, or a hiatus and coming back 5 years later with a big album, over nearly all of the post-Portnoy output. I thought BC&SL was actually a step in the right direction, but SC and BC&SL have aged well IMO. I really liked ADTOE when it came out, but in hindsight I think it is flawed musically, and was a transitional album to the era we've had for the last 10 years. I agree with Ignotus, about ADTOE being an echo of the band that used to be, while it was also a preview of things to come, unfortunately, both with production, and musically. The one good thing is Myung has been more audible (but I think he's audible just fine in earlier releases, even Train of Thought.)

And I probably wouldn't be here writing anything about DT.
 :rollin

I don't mean they would have sounded like those two albums. A lot of stuff from the last 4, or at least first 2 with Mangini, albums would likely have made it onto these hypothetical DT albums with MP. Or MP gets his way and a 2-5 year hiatus and maybe you're right, but you never know.

Offline MetropolisWatches

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2211 on: October 25, 2020, 03:00:34 PM »
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.

'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.

Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2212 on: October 25, 2020, 03:13:37 PM »
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.

'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.

Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.

So define innovation. What would you have done different or want different?

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2213 on: October 26, 2020, 08:36:33 AM »
...and the album lacks innovation.

I agree with this.  But at the same time, that has never been something that detracted from my enjoyment, even a little bit.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2214 on: October 26, 2020, 09:04:44 AM »
Arguably the best Mangini-era album, though I feel A Dramatic Turn of Events edges it out.

'Barstool Warrior' is the standout track and epitome of the 'classic' yet updated DT sound done to perfection. 'At Wit's End' is the other best tune.

Only cons: Labrie's vocals sound overly processed/produced at times, and the album lacks innovation.

So define innovation. What would you have done different or want different?

They didn't do anything to push their sound forward, which has really been going on since ADTOE. Each album has had a safe feeling, other than TA, but there, the band still had the same general sound they've had since Mangini joined, just in a different context. With DoT, the band sort of reverted back to an ADTOE/DT12 type of sound, much of the music on DoT could have been on either of those albums.

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2215 on: November 03, 2020, 11:27:26 AM »
wrote out a long post, posted it, and it was mangled all to shit happens to me all time time here, what the fuck

Offline kirksnosehair

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2216 on: November 03, 2020, 11:29:14 AM »
Anyway, the gist of it was I hope they write ADTOE II that album stands head and shoulders above the other three in the Mangini era

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2217 on: November 03, 2020, 11:43:32 AM »
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).

Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way. I understand they needed such a piece to bring back the fans that declared war eternal on The Astonishing (for what I feel is a pretty well thought-out argument on why I find TA to be a wonderful album feel free to check the "I see why they left MP go" thread) and thus delivering what, I think, should've been the self-titled back in 2013.

This one has songs that, to me, are instant DT classics like Barstool Warrior or Pale Blue Dot and was definitely a step in the right direction regarding mixing and mastering, with a far more modern and engaging soundscape and I do think it's going to age well, but I feel it's going to suffer the eventual fate that SC or Black Clouds suffered. Those two albums are good in their own right, but they're right in the middle of the controversial Octavarium and the game-changing first album with Mangini on drums.

I for, one, am super excited with their new recording process because I cannot see them taking the safe route again. They needed an album like DOT in 2018/2019, and they delivered greatly and fans are mostly happy with the way things are in DT land now *shields himself from the upcoming barrage of MP Warrior comments* and they're in a great place to do something more daring and exciting.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2218 on: November 03, 2020, 01:30:28 PM »
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).

Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2219 on: November 04, 2020, 09:35:14 AM »
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).

Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?

I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.

Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2220 on: November 04, 2020, 09:43:14 AM »
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).

Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?

I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.

Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.

Excellent post.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2221 on: November 04, 2020, 09:52:42 AM »
ADTOE is so inspired all the way through it's just absurd. That album is a gem all the way through and it's still probably the best MM-era effort overall (though I tend to favor TA for other reasons).

Regarding DOT, I still enjoy it thoroughly but I'm in bosk1's ship any day of the week ( :-* ) regarding it not being a daring or life-changing album in any way.
But honestly, what makes ADToE "daring or life-changing" in some way that the s/t or d/t doesn't? Not that I don't like ADToE (it's my second favorite of the MM-era), but I don't see it being any more revolutionary or head and shoulders above most of DT's other albums. Of course this will be disputed to the end of time, but one could argue that it's less inspired given that most of the songs seem to have been based on the songwriting charts of IaW. But whether you agree with that or not, what makes this album so much better than the others?

I think, as I think most people around here do as well, that ADTOE was a brilliant return to form. Every album after Six Degrees was met with some degree of polarized reaction and arguably both SC and BC&SL were feeling kinda dry. I do enjoy them and I think they have some brilliant moments in there, but they're nowhere DT's best work.

Now, ADTOE to me is an instant DT classic that's up there with the likes of I&W/Awake/SFAM. They had a big mission ahead of them and delivered big time, and basically the success of that album helped create strong roots for the MM-era Dream Theater. That, to me, is good enough. Maybe it's not as musically daring as a SDOIT was, but it's was a big statement. As big as it can possibly get. Without a successful ADTOE, DT could've not had such a successful path after the departure of Portnoy; so that to me is enough reason to put it up there.

That didn't really answer Scotty's question.  All you've basically said is that you like ADTOE a lot better than the albums that came before it.  But what is "daring or life changing"?  I like ADTOE too, but I like DT12 a bit better, and I think ADTOE is really only a little better than DOT.  Those three MM era albums are very close for me, and I like all three better than the last two MP era albums, but I don't find anything "daring or life changing" or particularly "inspired" about any of them, and I don't think any are in the same class as I&W, Awake or SFAM.
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Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2222 on: November 04, 2020, 10:12:27 AM »
That didn't really answer Scotty's question.  All you've basically said is that you like ADTOE a lot better than the albums that came before it.  But what is "daring or life changing"?  I like ADTOE too, but I like DT12 a bit better, and I think ADTOE is really only a little better than DOT.  Those three MM era albums are very close for me, and I like all three better than the last two MP era albums, but I don't find anything "daring or life changing" or particularly "inspired" about any of them, and I don't think any are in the same class as I&W, Awake or SFAM.

I really did not mean to textually answer Scotty's question as such lol, as I in my original post did not state ADTOE was a "daring or life changing" album but for some reason the discussion turned into that direction. I stated the reasons I think ADTOE is so important in DT's career and why I like it so much and that's it. No need to debate about something that really didn't ask to be debated. It's so easy to answer something with another question, as I could now ask you something along the lines of: "okay, so now you tell me why Awake is a daring and life changing album" but that would not take us anywhere. Not all the pieces of music I love or enjoy have to be "life changing", and just to clear things up it was said more in a figure of speech manner and not to be interpreted textually; so that renders this discussion pretty much pointless in my eyes.

In a speculative manner, I can only think that ADTOE was very life changing for DT because it was the first album without their "leader", so to speak, and its enormous success put some strong roots in the career DT had ahead of them, and there's that.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 10:20:17 AM by DarkLord_Lalinc »
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Offline Lupton

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2223 on: November 04, 2020, 10:19:48 AM »
Overall ADTOE seems like a much denser body of work than anything the band has done prior. I think there's a higher concentration of "prog metal nerdiness" :lol  to be found in many of the longer tracks (Lost Not Forgotten, Bridges In the Sky, Outcry, Breaking All Illusions) than there was before. The instrumental stuff just seems a little bit more "on steroids" than usual for DT. In contrast, S/T and D/T seem more like a return to more balanced waters. Just my 2 cents..

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2224 on: November 04, 2020, 10:28:50 AM »
Overall ADTOE seems like a much denser body of work than anything the band has done prior. I think there's a higher concentration of "prog metal nerdiness" :lol  to be found in many of the longer tracks (Lost Not Forgotten, Bridges In the Sky, Outcry, Breaking All Illusions) than there was before. The instrumental stuff just seems a little bit more "on steroids" than usual for DT. In contrast, S/T and D/T seem more like a return to more balanced waters. Just my 2 cents..

Yeah, I definitely feel that, and I think that it was only natural. They had to prove MM's prowess to the fanbase and the world, as DT has always been the "group of guys that are so amazing at their instruments" band and they know that.

Also, the whole progressive metal scene nowadays is so full of amazing players and technical music it's crazy. Some stuff by bands like Animals as Leaders for example, mathematically speaking, can really give DT a run for their money; so as the poster boys of the genre they kinda had to up their game in that regard.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2225 on: November 06, 2020, 03:30:31 AM »
I did love how people tried to make out A Dramatic Turn Of Events was Dream Theater basically copy and pasting Images and Words

as if they were unable to write without MP around.

When musically they could not be more different - and who cares if you copy an ARRANGEMENT anyway ?

In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2226 on: November 06, 2020, 03:56:27 AM »
In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.

And it was not an entire album anyway. They used five songs and didn't even follow them to the letter (piano intro for Lost Not Forgotten, chorus for Outcry structurally similar to Metropolis which doesn't have a chorus.....)
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2227 on: November 06, 2020, 04:38:06 AM »
How many people mocked Systematic Chaos for being almost identical in structure to Octavarium ?

if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 min song at the end of the album it would have been almost the same.

Maybe half the reason they split it in two.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2228 on: November 06, 2020, 08:53:59 AM »
D/T is my favorite MM era album. Is it innovative? In the context of the band's discography, I find it is. In the sense that it got the essence of the DT sound without going the long song wanky route that was sort of their thing from SDOIT onwards. This is what they were trying to do in DT12, but they really nailed it this time. AWE felt like one of their long epics without actually being long.

And they actually have three songs whose styles I haven't heard from them before: Room 137. S2n. and Viper King.

I think they would continue going this short to medium-length song route. The streaming market literally forces them to do it, with revenues coming in based on number of track plays. Long songs do not make sense in this revenue environment.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2229 on: November 06, 2020, 09:29:13 AM »
I did love how people tried to make out A Dramatic Turn Of Events was Dream Theater basically copy and pasting Images and Words

as if they were unable to write without MP around.

If that's what you think that dead-horse discussion was about, then you completely missed the point.


who cares if you copy an ARRANGEMENT anyway ?

Translation:  This isn't really an interrogative statement; it's a declarative statement that you don't care.


In my opinion - copying the arrangement of an entire album - whilst the music being entirely brand new is actually an interesting experiment.

JP has never fessed up to doing this, and it wasn't the entire album.  However, if it was done intentionally (and it's so obvious on at least a couple songs that there's no way it wasn't intentional), I agree that it was an interesting concept -- one that I think worked very well with BAI.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2230 on: November 06, 2020, 11:30:01 AM »
How many people mocked Systematic Chaos for being almost identical in structure to Octavarium ?

if In The Presence of Enemies was one 25 min song at the end of the album it would have been almost the same.

Maybe half the reason they split it in two.
Not at all. Sorry but this whole 8v and SC are "almost identical in structure" is a big stretch. Yeah, both have a 20+ minute epic, a semi-epic that starts off mellow and has an extended instrumental section, a heavy Muse-influenced song and (surprise surprise) another part of the 12SS. But let's be real - those are broad descriptions, and the individual songs have little to no correlation to their supposed equivalent. Likewise, there's no U2-ish song, nor super sappy ballad, nor rock song on baritone guitar with a Neal Schon-esque solo on SC. And there's no Evanescence-y song, nor a song with Pantera-ish riffs, shouted verses and wacky Zappa-esque instrumental section on 8v. Plus there aren't equivalents for Constant Motion and Panic Attack on the opposing albums.

The thing is, you can be sure that as they were writing the various tracks for SC, MP wasn't saying "hey - let's make sure that we include these same style tracks that we just did on our last album!" In an interview that I did with MP back in 2004, when I asked him if he would ever consider using previous DT albums for "inspiration corner" instead of other bands' albums, he said:
Quote
We would never make a record with the mindset “let’s try to re-do this” or use Images and Words or Awake as inspiration corner – we don’t ever want to repeat ourselves. In fact, we would use those more as references for things not to do, because we’ve already done them! There’s been times where we have looked at our past records and said “wait – we’ve already done that – we can’t do that again.” So if anything, those earlier albums are not so much an influence, they’re more of a guideline for us to not repeat ourselves.

OTOH, after MP left, JP directed the band to "get back to their roots" for their first album without MP. What better way to go back to their roots than to get ideas from the album that put them on the map in the first place and remains the most popular album in their catalog? Whether it started out as a simple writing exercise akin to the 2003 Stream of Consciousness fan club contest or something less innocent, it's quite evident that 5 of the songs on ADToE were initially based off the structures of songs from IaW. Structurally they may not be carbon copies of what is on IaW but it's to be expected that they'd probably make minor tweaks and adjustments as they went along. The reality is there are far too many similarities for this to all be purely coincidental.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Lupton

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2231 on: November 06, 2020, 12:19:45 PM »
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.

[edit: thinking about it a little more. Both track 3's have unison parts, but they occur in different spots in the songs, so it's not really structurally similar]
« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 12:36:03 PM by Lupton »

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2232 on: November 06, 2020, 12:34:11 PM »
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.

Nope, the pairings in structures are:

Pull Me Under / On the Back of Angels
Under a Glass Moon / Lost Not Forgotten (without the piano intro of course)
Metropolis / Outcry (but with a chorus)
Wait for Sleep / Far from Heaven
Learning to Live / Breaking All Illusions

The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.
I use my sig to pimp some bands from Italy! Check out Elvenking (Power / Folk metal), Folkstone (Rock / Medieval metal), Arcana Opera (Gothic/Noir/Heavy metal) and the beautiful voice of Elisa!

Offline Lupton

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2233 on: November 06, 2020, 12:38:37 PM »
^^ OK that makes a lot more sense. So it's a track to track comparison and not a running order thing really. I should have read Setlist Scotty's post more carfully.

Offline evilasiojr

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2234 on: November 06, 2020, 12:59:50 PM »
It's funny how the pairing thing makes me love ADToE even more until today! That album is amazing, and the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.

That's the kind of song structure I actually missed on DT12, TA and D/T. Not that I want them to have an older album as inspiration again, but there's something special when they write music like that. I am not complaining though, I look forward to every single new DT music anyway  :metal

Offline Pettor

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2235 on: November 06, 2020, 01:25:55 PM »
That's interesting since the structure of the songs is the biggest issue with ADTOE for me. It doesn't sound as dynamic and lack parts that elevate the songs beyond solid. I&W is a great example of using similar structure but the songs sound fresh, exciting and groovy throughout the full play length. BAI however manages to do something really amazing using a similar structure as LTL.

I thought D/T was a big comeback to songs with great dynamic. Only PBD was bumming me out since that one would really elevate if the structure was as mystical and epic as the subject matter 😁

Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2236 on: November 06, 2020, 01:59:41 PM »
I can see the comparison between Pull Me Under and On The Backs of Angels...but that's where it stops for me. Another day is a ballad-like and BMUBMD is a chugging rocker. Maybe you could compare Take the Time to Lost Not Forgotten but the only thing I can see for sure is that both songs sound like DT.

Nope, the pairings in structures are:

Pull Me Under / On the Back of Angels
Under a Glass Moon / Lost Not Forgotten (without the piano intro of course)
Metropolis / Outcry (but with a chorus)
Wait for Sleep / Far from Heaven
Learning to Live / Breaking All Illusions

The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.

Maybe someone can find it, but I recently did a fairly in depth comparison of LTL and BAI that includes time stamps and describes what's the same versus what's different.

Here's an article that did something similar for a couple of the other songs and which stirred up a bunch of controversy at the time:  https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=10150771825130184


the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.

Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).
"There's a bass solo in a song called Metropolis where I do a bass solo."  John Myung

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2237 on: November 06, 2020, 02:21:41 PM »
The rest has nothing to do with Images and Words.
Don't forget Another Day / This Is the Life

And really the connection between WFS and FFH really is more of them both being piano/vocal pieces that are preludes to the closing epics of their respective albums. WFS and FFH really aren't the same structurally, even tho LtL and BAI are.
 
 
the way they built the songs from a "preconceived" structure but wrote an original AWESOME piece of music makes me appreciate these guys and the album so much.
Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).
To a degree, I also agree, because it does take a lot of effort to write parts that fit the basic descriptions of those structural outlines, as well as to make sure everything fits, works well and smoothly transitions from one part to another. But OTOH, I can why some are critical with the idea of it being considered "cheating" since it wasn't as if they came up the ideas in a completely organic, natural way as they had done with everything up until that point.

That said, it's not my favorite album of theirs, but there are several songs on it that I do enjoy, especially BAI.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline evilasiojr

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #2238 on: November 06, 2020, 02:24:23 PM »
Generally agree, and I never quite understood why many people seemed to view this as a big negative at the time (although most of what I was reading at that time was at MP's forum, so that may sufficiently explain it).

Yeah! I remember when this discussion was going on that even MP addressed the subject.