Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[hefdaddy42]

He's probably my favourite lyricist in DT.

Same

[Max Kuehnau]

He's probably my favourite lyricist in DT.

Same

I like some lyrics by John, but my favourite lyricists in the band are (in no particular order) James, JM and MM. I'd gladly welcome more lyrics by MM to be honest.

[Evermind]

Well I'd rather him write about that than fantasy lyrics about counts of Tuscany, pharaohs haunting a town (TDEN), or bloodsucking vampires (Forsaken).

I'd welcome JM penned song about any of these fantasy topics, wonder what he'll come up with.

[Lupton]

Although I can't really say I'm a huge fan of DT lyrics, FWIW I do think the James' lyrics seem to resonate more with me. It also seems that James has to work harder to emote singing some of the other guy's lyrics, but when he sings his own the performances sounds so much smoother (don't really know how to describe it). I've always wondered if that had something to with the vocal melody itself -- that is to say in the songs that James writes lyrics does he have more say in determining the vocal melody? Or is it simply a matter of being able to relate better with your own words, that is, it's easier for a singer to get into the necessary "headspace" to service their own lyrics?

[pg1067]

Honestly - i've never been into Myung's lyrics. They always sound like a compilation of those 'self help' quotes people post on Instagram.

This is going to fly under the radar but it is possibly the most controversial thing anyone has ever posted in this subforum.

Well...let's see.

Learning to Live -- Definitely NOT "a compilation of . . . 'self help' quotes."

Lifting Shadows off a Dream -- I'm not sure what it's about, but it's definitely not a bunch of "self help" quotes.

Trial of Tears -- I don't know...maybe.

Fatal Tragedy -- This is just about the antithesis of "self help" quotes.

Breaking All Illusions -- Probably the song most worthy of this description, but who knows what Myung wrote and what Petrucci wrote.

Surrender to Reason -- ??

Fall Into the Light and S2N -- Ummm...no.

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

[Dedalus]

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. 

[Kotowboy]

The whole " OMG MYUNG SPOKEEEEEEE " posts are the same as " LOL METALLICA NAPSTER " posts.

They're about 10 years out of date.

[pg1067]

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. 

Attaching?  Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.

[kirksnosehair]

obsequious reverence? 


I'm sorry that just hit me a little weird.

[MoraWintersoul]

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. 

Attaching?  Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.

I mean, maybe it's because those were our favorite lyrics JLB, JP and MP also have some lyrics that can go against these two without an issue. KM is still one of my favorite lyricists when I go beyond what he wrote for Dream Theater, and Myung only contributes when he's inspired, so people were just excited about him being inspired enough to do so. Plus, he has a knack, he almost always selects the songs that will become fan favorites once they're complete and says "okay so I'll do this one".

[pg1067]

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. 

Attaching?  Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.

I mean, maybe it's because those were our favorite lyrics JLB, JP and MP also have some lyrics that can go against these two without an issue. KM is still one of my favorite lyricists when I go beyond what he wrote for Dream Theater, and Myung only contributes when he's inspired, so people were just excited about him being inspired enough to do so. Plus, he has a knack, he almost always selects the songs that will become fan favorites once they're complete and says "okay so I'll do this one".

As I said, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like or saying that "KM is still one of my favorite lyricists."  Nor is there anything wrong with, "Myung is writing a lyric for ADTOE?  Cool.  It's been a while."  But some of the stuff I read made it seem like whatever Myung wrote would be lyrical perfection, and some of the stuff I've read over the years about the wonder of KM lyrics has verged on the absurd.

[gzarruk]

That being said, I'll agree that the "Cult of Myung" was so overblown leading up to ADTOE that it verged on the silly.  So many people were so geeked about Myung contributing a lyric for the first time since SFAM.  The same could be said about the "Cult of Kevin Moore."

Well, considering that most of the lyrics were written by JP or MP, you can't blame people for attaching themselves to other lyricists. 

Attaching?  Like what you like, but the obsequious reverence shown to two guys who, prior to 2011, had written only 4 and 7 lyrics (plus WFS and portions of TTT) out of nearly 100 DT songs verged on the absurd.

This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.

I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.

Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1

[pg1067]

This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.

I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.

Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1

Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?

I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).

[gzarruk]

This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.

I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.

Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1

Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?

I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).

The list would look a lot uglier if I counted songs that were co-written differently than the others. How do we determine how much of a song did one or the other person write? IIRC, Moore only did one verse for To Live Forever; Octavarium has lyrics by JP, MP and JLB; Collins' lyrics didn't end up being used at all (one song was re-written by Charlie and the other was never even demoed, but he isn't too relevant to this discussion anyway). Take The Time is the odd song of the bunch, with lyrics written by 4 members, but it's still a contribution by each. As for SDOIT (and ITPOE) that's another debate entirely, but let's just stick with what the band has said (that they're full songs) for this application.

[MoraWintersoul]

But some of the stuff I read made it seem like whatever Myung wrote would be lyrical perfection, and some of the stuff I've read over the years about the wonder of KM lyrics has verged on the absurd.

I'm pretty sure that in the pile of the "some of the stuff", some of the stuff I wrote would rank pretty high on the absurd scale

[kirksnosehair]

Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1

   - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided     I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics.   This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"

[MirrorMask]

The Astonishing really sent Petrucci's count up to the sky, but he still would have been by far in the lead anyway...

[pg1067]

This has probably been shared in another thread somewhere, but since it's being discussed here, I thought I'd make a list with the lyric writing credits for every DT member (past and present) who has contributed with lyrics so far.

I'm including the stuff from the Majesty demos, FII demos, Cleaning out the Closet, etc here + I'm considering SDOIT (JP & MP) and ITPOE (JP) as full songs, rather than counting each part/track.

Petrucci: 94
Portnoy: 21
LaBrie: 15
Moore: 14
Myung: 10
Dominici: 2
Collins: 2
Mangini: 1

Isn't it somewhat inconsistent to count SDOIT as a single song, but also to give each of Moore, Myung, Petrucci and Portnoy a full credit for Take the Time?

I'd say the better accounting is 12 3/4 for Moore (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit for To Live Forever) (or 8 1/4 if you only count official album tracks) and 7 3/4 for Myung (1/4 credit for TTT and 1/2 credit each for BAI, FITL and S2N) (or 6 3/4 if you only count official album tracks).

The list would look a lot uglier if I counted songs that were co-written differently than the others. How do we determine how much of a song did one or the other person write? IIRC, Moore only did one verse for To Live Forever; Octavarium has lyrics by JP, MP and JLB; Collins' lyrics didn't end up being used at all (one song was re-written by Charlie and the other was never even demoed, but he isn't too relevant to this discussion anyway). Take The Time is the odd song of the bunch, with lyrics written by 4 members, but it's still a contribution by each. As for SDOIT (and ITPOE) that's another debate entirely, but let's just stick with what the band has said (that they're full songs) for this application.

Easy enough to say, "TTT has four lyricists listed, so 1/4 credit each; BAI has two lyricists listed, so 1/2 credit each."  Also, why include Collins at all since nothing he wrote was ever released?  For all we know, he wrote 49 sets of lyrics that "didn't end up being used at all."

I would say the more accurate counts are as follows:

JP - 99.15
MP - 21.65
JLB - 13.7
KM - 12.75
JM - 7.75
CD - 1.5
MM - 1
CC - 0

Songs with multiple listed lyricists** are divided with the assumption that each lyricist contributed evenly, except Octavarium.  Since each section of 8VM is listed, it is split 5 ways between JP (2/5), MP (2/5) and JLB (1/5).  Also, the single song versus multiple songs debate aside, SDOIT includes seven discrete sets of lyrics, so those are counted separately.

** - Status Seeker, Take the Time, Caught in a Web, You Not Me (1/2 credit to JP), Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, S2N, To Live Forever (I included TLF as a multi-lyricist composition, even though one of the two versions on COTC lists only JP as lyricist).

  - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided     I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics.   This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"

27 of his number come from The Astonishing, so....

[hefdaddy42]

I would say the more accurate counts are as follows:

JP - 99.15
MP - 21.65
JLB - 13.7
KM - 12.75
JM - 7.75
CD - 1.5
MM - 1
CC - 0

Songs with multiple listed lyricists** are divided with the assumption that each lyricist contributed evenly, except Octavarium.  Since each section of 8VM is listed, it is split 5 ways between JP (2/5), MP (2/5) and JLB (1/5).  Also, the single song versus multiple songs debate aside, SDOIT includes seven discrete sets of lyrics, so those are counted separately.

** - Status Seeker, Take the Time, Caught in a Web, You Not Me (1/2 credit to JP), Breaking All Illusions, Fall into the Light, S2N, To Live Forever (I included TLF as a multi-lyricist composition, even though one of the two versions on COTC lists only JP as lyricist).

Yeah, no one is going to use a system like that, regardless of accuracy.

[gzarruk]

Yeah, no one is going to use a system like that, regardless of accuracy.

It takes all the fun out of it

  - Whoa, I had no idea the lyric writing was that lopsided     I guess I've never really paid much attention, nor do I really care much who writes the lyrics.   This actually gives me a whole new appreciation for the lyrics to "Wither"

27 of his number come from The Astonishing, so....

You take TA out of the equation (but still counting D/T) and JP still has around 70 songs with his lyrics.

[pg1067]

You take TA out of the equation (but still counting D/T) and JP still has around 70 songs with his lyrics.

Exactly, even without TA, his number is 3x that of MP, and MP is still 1.5x that of JLB despite not having been in the band for 10 years and 4 albums.

[bosk1]

I think the two current main lyricists are both solid.  But they hit me differently.

For JP's lyrics, my reaction is often along the lines of:  "Heh, that's pretty clever" or "Oh, that's kinda cool." 
For James, my reaction is often:  There's a LOT of emotion there to connect with. 
To put it another way, I think I connect more with JP's lyrics on an intellectual level, and connect with James' on a more visceral, emotional level.  Both are effective, but satisfy different needs.

For the other lyricists, it's a bit different.
Portnoy:  I usually don't have a strong reaction either way and just feel like most of his are just "solid."
Myung:  He used to be my favorite DT lyricist, but some of his more recent efforts haven't connected with me.  Hit and miss.
Moore:  Even more hit and miss.  He uses a lot of clever devices and does some things that are really cool.  But for every one of those, there is another absolute clunker that makes me just want to ignore the lyrics so I don't injure myself eyerolling.

[MoraWintersoul]

Portnoy:  I usually don't have a strong reaction either way and just feel like most of his are just "solid."

Does ACOS hit the spot for you at all or is it just "solid"?

[bosk1]

Good one.  That might just be his best (or at least up there at the top), so I would put it a cut above "solid."

[pg1067]

I've found that, as my life has progressed, I've paid less and less attention to lyrics.  In part that's because I can't just lie around blasting an album and listening to it over and over anymore.  And, while I HATE to admit it, it's harder for me to read lyrics in a CD booklet the way I could read lyrics on an album sleeve in my teens and 20s.

Back when it was the JP & MP show, I always thought I liked JP's lyrics better, but then I realized I was misattributing some songs.  I had it in my head that MP was responsible for the heavy stuff and JP was responsible for the proggy stuff.  Beyond This Life is a good example.  For quite a while, I mistakenly thought it was an MP lyric.

Looking now at a list of DT songs by lyricist, the only JLB songs that have really hit with me are Blind Faith, Out of Reach, Sacrificed Sons and Vacant (although SS is really ITNOG Part 2).

JM stuff has been generally good.  I always like LTL, but it became personally meaningful when my wife's father died of AIDS in 1995 - about six months before we got married (he contracted it via tainted blood used in a transfusion).  I've always thought Lifting Shadows was a cool lyric, and Fatal Tragedy is excellent.

KM's songs have been hit or miss.  LOVE Surrounded and Only a Matter of Time, but not so much with Lie and 6:00.

Same with MP.  ACOS, Home and Strange Deja Vu are great, but I'm not a fan of any of the 12SS songs, and stuff like Never Enough and Honor Thy Father verges on juvenile.

JP probably has 2-3 lyrics I like for every one I don't care for, and even some of the songs for which he is most maligned I kind of like.

[gzarruk]

I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb (Hey Ho, Let's Go by NMB, for example) or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me, so it's fine. Having said that, there's really good lyrics and there's others that aren't. For example, ACOS and TBOT were written by the same person and have a similar base theme (the loss of a parent), but the results were very different.

[Ben_Jamin]

I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb (Hey Ho, Let's Go by NMB, for example) or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me, so it's fine. Having said that, there's really good lyrics and there's others that aren't. For example, ACOS and TBOT were written by the same person and have a similar base theme (the loss of a parent), but the results were very different.

The difference being, the lyrics of one are more personally related than the other. The Best of Times, reads as if MP is talking to his Dad (He died during the making of the album, but still got to listen to it). A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother. 

[pg1067]

I usually don't care much about lyrics unless they're really dumb . . . or openly against my personal beliefs, but DT's lyrics have never been either case for me. . . .

I think that accurately summarizes where I am these days.

A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother.

I have to wonder why folks continue to say this.  MP's mother's death is only one part of ACOS.  According MP, ACOS is "about the cycle of life.  Basically, I took a lot of personal incidents, like losing my mother and a couple of things that happened in my life, and I wrote them into the lyrics.  Like, on a smaller scale, I wouldn't try to compare it with this, but when I listen to Pink Floyd's the Wall, there are a lot of emotions there- just a lot of frustrations and anger.  He goes full circle, the character.  He has a child and just as he's about to pass on and die, now his son is going to have to live the life he did and go through those same experiences."

https://mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/30.aspx#297

[gzarruk]

A Change of Seasons, reads as a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother.

I have to wonder why folks continue to say this.  MP's mother's death is only one part of ACOS.  According MP, ACOS is "about the cycle of life.  Basically, I took a lot of personal incidents, like losing my mother and a couple of things that happened in my life, and I wrote them into the lyrics.  Like, on a smaller scale, I wouldn't try to compare it with this, but when I listen to Pink Floyd's the Wall, there are a lot of emotions there- just a lot of frustrations and anger.  He goes full circle, the character.  He has a child and just as he's about to pass on and die, now his son is going to have to live the life he did and go through those same experiences."

https://mikeportnoy.com/aboutmike/faq/answers/30.aspx#297

Wow, that's something I don't recall reading before. I think people, myself included, relate it so much to his mother's death is because, iirc, he posts the song every year on the anniversary of her death (same as with TBOT for his father).

[bosk1]

I don't think relating it to his mother's death is at all inaccurate.  Yes, there is more to it than that.  But even with that description, his mother's death and its impact on him is a huge part of it. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't think relating it to his mother's death is at all inaccurate.  Yes, there is more to it than that.  But even with that description, his mother's death and its impact on him is a huge part of it.

Agree, and it's why I said life changing story.

[pg1067]

To say that the song is "about" his mother's death (as lots of folks do) or to call it "a story of MP's life changing moment when he lost his mother" just isn't correct (or, at best, is incomplete).  His mother's death is a part of it, but it's much more than that.

[darkshade]

I don't think DoT has aged well with me. I listened to both this and ADTOE recently, and ADTOE is still great for the most part besides the production. With DoT, I can take or leave the first 3 tracks, Barstool is cool, then I lose interest again until the last 3 songs, which is a great EP's worth of decent DT music. The bonus track I can also take or leave, though I like the groove riffs. ADTOE only has one song I don't care for (BMU, BMD)

[Cool Chris]

I haven't thought much about this album for a while. At Wit's End is the only song I specifically reach for. I also do enjoy Paralyzed-FitL-BW quite a bit. It's an album I can enjoy start to finish without any 'definite skip' songs or "how much longer is this album?' thoughts, but it's not one I have an urge to spin much.

[Kotowboy]

As I said - for my money there's nothing on Distance Over Time as boring or uninteresting as Surrender To Reason or Along For The Ride.