Author Topic: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread  (Read 189255 times)

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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1680 on: August 14, 2019, 06:52:27 PM »
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

Pretty simple:  Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.

Uhh, what is the source on this? It's listed as a bonus track. I have literally never heard of a listed bonus track being considered part of the album proper. Not every edition of the album even includes it!

I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
Well it is on the cd, sooo.  It's part of the album to me, and I'm glad it's there!  :metal
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Offline SuperTaco

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1681 on: August 14, 2019, 07:32:43 PM »
I just want to take a moment to appreciate how minimal JP was with guitar overdubs (Outside of "Fall into the light") on this album. It feels more intimate, and closer to what it would sound like in a live setting. There were many places on the album that easily could have had rhythm guitars dubbed in underneath a solo or lead, and without those, everything else shines brighter.
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Offline 425

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1682 on: August 14, 2019, 08:01:09 PM »
Uhh, what is the source on this? It's listed as a bonus track. I have literally never heard of a listed bonus track being considered part of the album proper. Not every edition of the album even includes it!

I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?
Well it is on the cd, sooo.  It's part of the album to me, and I'm glad it's there!  :metal

I get that it's on (some versions of the) CD, and I don't mind that it's there. It's a good song. But I don't see how that means it's part of the album proper.

My CD of Haken's The Mountain contains alternate versions of two songs after the final song "Somebody." Are those part of the album? Am I meant to listen to those two alternate versions at the end every time I listen to the album? Have I been listening to the album wrong all along by turning it off without listening to the bonus tracks?

My CD of Nightwish's Oceanborn contains two songs that were not on the original release, plus three live versions of the album songs. Are those five tracks now magically part of the Oceanborn album by virtue of being on my particular CD? Am I listening to the album wrong when I only listen to the tracks that are actually on the album's original official tracklisting?

I'm just weirded out by what I perceive as a totally different treatment being given to Viper King by some in this thread than I have ever heard of or seen anyone give to anything else labeled explicitly as a bonus track.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1683 on: August 14, 2019, 09:02:37 PM »
My take on this is that if the "bonus tracks" are new songs, I consider them part of the album. If the bonus tracks are just live versions, acoustic versions or different versions of tracks from the same or previous albums, I just remove them from the digital album and never listen to them. To me, it's more about having the "ultimate" version of a song and sticking with that one, and that's why I don't, for the most part, listen to live albums, demo versions or alternate versions of songs I like. But that's something that I do, it doesn't have to be your way of doing things.

Speaking particularly about Viper King, even though it's a bonus track (because it's stylistically different than the rest of the songs on the album, but still fun and they wanted to include it anyway), I think it works perfectly as the album closer, like an encore would work on a live show.

Actually, if you think about it, 3 out of 4 MM era DT albums have a sort of "end credits" moment at the end:

- ADTOE has BAI as the epic closer, and BTS is the "extra" track, that bookends the album quite nicely.

- The self-titled has IT as the epic closer, then a few senconds of silence and the "end credits" once again with that piano + guitar tag at the end.

- Finally, D/T has the epic ending with PBD, and VK as a fun extra thing that works really well to loosen things up after a very serious and dark song.

(I could say something similar with TA, if you consider ONW as the closer of the album, and the last 2 tracks as the end credits scenes, but it's kind of a stretch).
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline NoFred

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1684 on: August 14, 2019, 11:03:17 PM »
VK is a classic B side, not part of the album experience but a song the band has that they want to get out. D/T ends with PBD.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1685 on: August 15, 2019, 03:06:07 AM »
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

Technically no, but I still include it

1. Untethered Angel
2. Paralyzed
3. Viper King
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Room 137
6. Signal to Noise
7. Fall Into the Light
8. Out of Reach
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. At Wit's End

(bold are the ones that differ from the actual track listing)

I think I've posted this before, but I figured I'd say it again since it's semi-related to the discussion.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1686 on: August 15, 2019, 07:24:56 AM »
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

Technically no, but I still include it

1. Untethered Angel
2. Paralyzed
3. Viper King
4. Barstool Warrior
5. Room 137
6. Signal to Noise
7. Fall Into the Light
8. Out of Reach
9. Pale Blue Dot
10. At Wit's End

(bold are the ones that differ from the actual track listing)

I think I've posted this before, but I figured I'd say it again since it's semi-related to the discussion.

This works really well too!
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Northern Lion

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1687 on: August 15, 2019, 07:53:20 AM »
Out of curiosity:

When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

It strikes me that the album was designed as a cohesive unit ending with Pale Blue Dot, and that Viper King is an extra, standalone thing. To me, it only feels right to finish a listen to this album with Pale Blue Dot.

For me, it depends on my mood.  For instance, there are plenty of times that I will listen to BC&SL and stop after The Count of Tuscany, but at other times I will listen clear through To Tame a Land.  I know there are some differences here because 1, it's a bonus disc and not on the same disc as the rest of the album and 2, they are covers and not songs originally written by DT, but I think it still somewhat applies.

In general I listen to Viper King as the last track even though it is a little out of harmony with the rest of the album.  Mostly because I just like the song.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1688 on: August 15, 2019, 08:44:05 AM »
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

Pretty simple:  Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.

Uhh, what is the source on this?

My "source" is that it is listed on the back of the CD booklet as the final track, and when I play the album, it is the 10th track out of 10.  That makes it, by definition, the "final track."  I'm not sure where your disconnect is.  Yeah, it's labeled as a "bonus track."  So what?  It's a bonus track on the album.  It's not like droves of fans hunted down this mysterious, obscure bonus track on the Internet and randomly appended it to their track listings.  It's on the album.  Hence, people listen to it along with any other song on the album.
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Online TAC

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1689 on: August 15, 2019, 09:25:50 AM »
 :lol



It feels like a loose encore to the album. I like it. A lot. Honestly, what I really like is what it represents to me...that that band was having a good time together in the studio. Enough to do something not only fun, but kind of cool IMO.

I take it as a good sign of where the band is.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1690 on: August 15, 2019, 09:54:54 AM »
When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track? If so, why?

Pretty simple:  Because the band arranged the album with Viper King as the final track.

Uhh, what is the source on this?

Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King.  That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.


I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?

But that's a different issue than what you first asked about.  You asked, "When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track?"  If you intended a different question, then you should have asked a different question.  Had you asked, "Do you consider Viper King to be part of the core album," you likely would have gotten different responses.

On that issue, I don't really care what label is slapped on it.  If I thought it sucked I wouldn't listen to it, but I don't, and it's there, so I listen to it as part of the album.
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Offline 425

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1691 on: August 15, 2019, 07:41:49 PM »
My "source" is that it is listed on the back of the CD booklet as the final track, and when I play the album, it is the 10th track out of 10.  That makes it, by definition, the "final track."  I'm not sure where your disconnect is.  Yeah, it's labeled as a "bonus track."  So what?  It's a bonus track on the album.  It's not like droves of fans hunted down this mysterious, obscure bonus track on the Internet and randomly appended it to their track listings.  It's on the album.  Hence, people listen to it along with any other song on the album.

Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King.  That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.

So, again, the Haken album The Mountain includes two alternate versions of tracks as part of the album? The final track on that album is essentially a radio edit of another song on the album? And I'm some sort of freak for not listening through to that radio edit whenever I listen that album?

I guess I just don't understand this way of thinking. To me, an album is not "whatever happens to be on the CD," but a structured sequence of songs with a defined beginning and end. A CD release could contain the whole album and nothing but the album. But it could also contain the album, plus some extras that are not part of the album proper, but addenda to it. To me, the phrase "bonus track" literally means "this is not part of the album." It's like the bonus features on a Blu-Ray. The deleted scenes and the bloopers and the behind-the-scenes documentary on my Blu-Ray copy of Avengers: Endgame are not part of the movie Avengers: Endgame, irrespective of whether they were packaged on the same disc.

To me, it's very clear that Distance Over Time was created as a nine-song album. The experience of listening to Distance Over Time, as the band intended it, is the experience of listening to Untethered Angel through Pale Blue Dot. Viper King is a standalone thing that was given as a bonus extra. Basically the equivalent of a B-side for the post-vinyl era.

I don't have a problem if people like to listen to it right after the album, but it's just completely foreign to me that so many are treating it as though it's on the same level as Barstool Warrior or Out of Reach in terms of being a part of the album Distance Over Time, because as I see it the band has made it explicit that it is NOT part of that album.



I find this absolutely perplexing, because my understanding of the very meaning of the term "bonus" in "bonus track" is "extra, not part of the core album." If they meant for it to be part of the core album, why on earth would they give it that label?

But that's a different issue than what you first asked about.  You asked, "When y'all are listening to this album, are you typically really listening to it with Viper King as the final track?"  If you intended a different question, then you should have asked a different question.  Had you asked, "Do you consider Viper King to be part of the core album," you likely would have gotten different responses.

On that issue, I don't really care what label is slapped on it.  If I thought it sucked I wouldn't listen to it, but I don't, and it's there, so I listen to it as part of the album.

This is fair. I guess maybe I'm a little more precious than some people about the experience of listening to an album. For me, I usually like to listen to *the album*, as designed, as a single experience, and stop listening, at least for a few minutes, when the album ends. To me, listening to an unrelated song uninterruptedly after an album would, I guess, feel weird in terms of breaking up my ability to take in the unified album experience. I suppose this may be more of a me thing and less of a common experience than I thought.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 07:47:13 PM by 425 »
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Offline NoFred

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1692 on: August 15, 2019, 10:19:59 PM »
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King.  That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.

Using this rule I’m good if VK is part of the album, cause I’m in the SDOIT is multiple songs for the same reason.

As a Spotify listener I generally dislike bonus tracks, because they’re on auto play with the rest of the album and don’t do much but alert me to switch tracks. Halen’s reissues with instrumentals are a good example.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1693 on: August 16, 2019, 01:05:15 AM »
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King.  That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.

Radio edits, alternate versions, cover and live tracks stand out more as not belonging to the album. Viper King is a brand new song written along the other 9, so it's easier to just go with the flow and listen to it.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1694 on: August 16, 2019, 10:14:07 AM »
Ummm...because when one puts the CD in the CD player, it has ten tracks, not nine, and the tenth (and final) track is Viper King.  That it's called a "bonus track" and that there are versions of the album on which it doesn't appear doesn't change reality for those of us that bought the 10 song version of the album.

So, again, the Haken album The Mountain includes two alternate versions of tracks as part of the album? The final track on that album is essentially a radio edit of another song on the album? And I'm some sort of freak for not listening through to that radio edit whenever I listen that album?

Despite your use of question marks, these sentences aren't questions.  If you intended to ask questions about Haken, I don't have the answers because I know next to nothing about that band.


I guess I just don't understand this way of thinking. To me, an album is not "whatever happens to be on the CD," but a structured sequence of songs with a defined beginning and end. A CD release could contain the whole album and nothing but the album. But it could also contain the album, plus some extras that are not part of the album proper, but addenda to it. To me, the phrase "bonus track" literally means "this is not part of the album." It's like the bonus features on a Blu-Ray. The deleted scenes and the bloopers and the behind-the-scenes documentary on my Blu-Ray copy of Avengers: Endgame are not part of the movie Avengers: Endgame, irrespective of whether they were packaged on the same disc.

To me, it's very clear that Distance Over Time was created as a nine-song album. The experience of listening to Distance Over Time, as the band intended it, is the experience of listening to Untethered Angel through Pale Blue Dot. Viper King is a standalone thing that was given as a bonus extra. Basically the equivalent of a B-side for the post-vinyl era.

I don't have a problem if people like to listen to it right after the album, but it's just completely foreign to me that so many are treating it as though it's on the same level as Barstool Warrior or Out of Reach in terms of being a part of the album Distance Over Time, because as I see it the band has made it explicit that it is NOT part of that album.

I suppose this explanation (except for the third paragraph) is the only way for the "bonus track" label to have any significance, and I assume the band wouldn't have used the label if it wasn't meaningful in some way to them.  However, for me, it's a meaningless label.  What if it didn't have that label?  Would your opinion be any different?  What about Awake, which omitted Scarred on the cassette version (and maybe also the vinyl version?)?  Was Scarred not part of the album?  And yes, a non-concept album released as a single CD is simply a collection of songs.  As for the third paragraph, I don't really know what you mean by "on the same level.  I don't know how I'd rank the songs on DOT, but VK might very well be at the bottom (although I like it), but that wouldn't be because of the "bonus track" label.


This is fair. I guess maybe I'm a little more precious than some people. . . .

Eh?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1695 on: August 19, 2019, 11:43:19 AM »
pg1067 said everything that needs be said. 
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1696 on: August 22, 2019, 12:47:55 PM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1697 on: August 22, 2019, 02:52:10 PM »
425 is absolutely right and I don't really get why people are choosing this as their hill to die on. Sure, if you like VK as a closer, by all means listen to the CD front to back.

But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album. 425 already gave examples of this and there are tons more.

Deep Purple In Rock has a bunch of studio chatter bonus tracks. They are most certainly not part of the album even though Studio Chat (2) is track number 11. It was recorded at the same time as Deep Purple In Rock but no, it is just a bonus.

:lol



It feels like a loose encore to the album. I like it. A lot. Honestly, what I really like is what it represents to me...that that band was having a good time together in the studio. Enough to do something not only fun, but kind of cool IMO.

I take it as a good sign of where the band is.

My view pretty much lines up with this. It's my least favorite track on DoT but it's still cool. A nice bonus to a great album

Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1698 on: August 22, 2019, 03:01:55 PM »
I don't really get why people are choosing this as their hill to die on.

I don't think anybody is doing that.  But he for some reason thinks it's crazy for people to consider it part of the album, so we are explaining to him why we do.  If he or you can't handle that, I'm not sure what to tell you.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1699 on: August 22, 2019, 05:13:07 PM »
425 is absolutely right

Except that these are opinions, so there is no "right" or "wrong."


But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.

So...it's part of the improper album?

Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1700 on: August 22, 2019, 06:25:12 PM »
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.

So...it's part of the improper album?

Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.

What other explanation could there be?  :huh: The literal meaning of a bonus track is that it's a song that isn't part of the album that's added onto a deluxe edition (ie, the "improper album" by definition). The intent of a bonus track only has one implication. If you don't care about the artist's intent then that's fine, but I think it's silly to act like the intent is in any way ambiguous.
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Offline NoFred

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1701 on: August 22, 2019, 06:36:33 PM »
In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.

Offline Northern Lion

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1702 on: August 22, 2019, 07:10:47 PM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

Awesome!  I just watched it and although I love the song, I didn't think the video was all that engaging.  However it did give some visual context to the story of the song, so it has some worth.  I wondered why they didn't release this song as a single considering how great the chorus is.  But I guess they finally did.

I hope it gets lots of views and gives the band some more exposure to new potential fans.
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Offline ThatOneGuy2112

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1703 on: August 22, 2019, 09:21:35 PM »
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper. I personally don't have issue with anyone who listens to it as such. Neither track really make for that grand of a closer so maybe that's largely why I'm not too invested in either side of this, but I do find the implications of it interesting.

For example, if Metropolis Pt. 2 were released alongside a "bonus track" in the vein of VK, would people be more or less willing to include it as part of the album? Considering it's so conceptual, a one-off bonus track that has little do to with the main album's concept would probably not be widely considered part of the overall album experience.

Offline NoFred

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1704 on: August 22, 2019, 11:38:47 PM »
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper. I personally don't have issue with anyone who listens to it as such. Neither track really make for that grand of a closer so maybe that's largely why I'm not too invested in either side of this, but I do find the implications of it interesting.

For example, if Metropolis Pt. 2 were released alongside a "bonus track" in the vein of VK, would people be more or less willing to include it as part of the album? Considering it's so conceptual, a one-off bonus track that has little do to with the main album's concept would probably not be widely considered part of the overall album experience.

Ha if SfaM had a bonus track, and it was TGP, I’d argue it was part of the album! Guess it comes down to the quality of the song...

Offline EPIC Outro

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1705 on: August 23, 2019, 07:33:41 AM »

I have a feeling Viper King was always intended to be part of the album proper until, perhaps, the label asked for a bonus track. Had that not occurred, I think VK would have fit between Room 137 and S2N.

Just speculation.

Offline Lonk

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1706 on: August 23, 2019, 07:41:57 AM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.
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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1707 on: August 23, 2019, 08:32:29 AM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.

Blue-ray version?  What are you talking about?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1708 on: August 23, 2019, 08:34:45 AM »
Truthfully, had PBD been a stronger closing statement to the album as a whole, I feel more people would be willing to set VK aside as not being part of the album proper.

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, this has nothing to do with it.  To me, it is part of the album for one reason and one reason only: it is on the album.  The strength or weakness of PBD, or any other song, is irrelevant. 

And as an aside, I think PBD is a fine song, as a "closer" or otherwise. 
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Offline Lonk

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1709 on: August 23, 2019, 08:39:16 AM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.

Blue-ray version?  What are you talking about?

Unless I'm losing my memory, the Box-set for the album included a Blue-Ray with visualization for every song.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1710 on: August 23, 2019, 09:42:04 AM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

That's the same video that was used at the NYC album release party, during concert and I think it's part of the blue-ray version of the album as well.

Blue-ray version?  What are you talking about?

Unless I'm losing my memory, the Box-set for the album included a Blue-Ray with visualization for every song.


Yup it did. And just looking at vids preview shot, i knew it was going to be the same visuals on the Blu-Ray and live.

The actual album closer is Pale Blue Dot, and Viper King is the end bonus fun song. It's like a "whew" we got through it, let's have fun type of song.

I don't really understand why it being a bonus track is a big deal. When you can just by the cd without Viper King. Or just push stop after Pale Blue Dot.

As of Now the album now is:

1. At Wit's End
2. Barstool Warrior
3. S2N
4. Pale Blue Dot
5. Room 137
6. Fall Into The Light
7. Untethered Angel
8. Out of Reach
9. Paralyzed
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1711 on: August 23, 2019, 10:31:37 AM »
But it is a bonus track. Bonus, meaning "in addition to." Sure, it is an unusual circumstance where the song was written and released at the same time but just as 425 said, simply being one of the tracks on the CD does not mean it is part of the proper album.

So...it's part of the improper album?

Until and unless the band issues an explanation of their intent in slapping the "bonus track" label on the song and concurrently releasing two versions of the album, I'll not be changing how I view this.

What other explanation could there be?  :huh: The literal meaning of a bonus track is that it's a song that isn't part of the album that's added onto a deluxe edition (ie, the "improper album" by definition). The intent of a bonus track only has one implication. If you don't care about the artist's intent then that's fine, but I think it's silly to act like the intent is in any way ambiguous.

I don't entirely disagree with this, and I did point out earlier that it's probably the only real way for the "bonus track" label to have any meaning.  However, it's really odd to have done this right from the get go (normally "bonus tracks" show up on re-releases years later).  In this case, one version of the album has 10 tracks, and the other has 9.  Why is one "proper" and the other is...I don't know...something else.  I recall seeing comments about some people specifically wanting the 9-song version and thinking that was really odd -- kinda like choosing to buy the 16 ounce bottle of nectar instead of the 20-ounce bottle that costs the same price.  If there's some sort of cosmic cohesiveness that binds together the first 9 songs on the album that is lost by listening to VK, that's completely lost on me.  In other words, while the notion of an "album proper" might be the only way for the "bonus track" label to have meaning, it strikes me as nothing but semantics and, therefore, meaningless.


In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.

I don't know to whom he was speaking, but if "you" means the fans in general, it didn't work for all of us.  I have no "understanding" of the order or why PBD had to come last.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1712 on: August 23, 2019, 02:49:48 PM »
In the lead up to release I recall JP saying “when you hear the album you’ll understand the order, and why PDB has to come last.” It’s a bonus track that’s perpetually linked to the release, as a nice bonus.

I don't know to whom he was speaking, but if "you" means the fans in general, it didn't work for all of us.  I have no "understanding" of the order or why PBD had to come last.

Yeah, I think both Petrucci and Mangini have made comments along those lines.  I don't get it either, other than to say that I think Untethered Angel sounds good as an album opener and PBD sounds good as the album closer, with VK sounding good as a...well, sort of "post-credits scene," much like ADTOE and DT12 do with Beneath the Surface and the "easter egg" tag at the end of Illumination Theory.  All three albums have a big, climactic faux-ending, and then a nice "bonus" at the end.  But, yeah, beyond that, I don't really understand the comments about the track order.
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1713 on: August 23, 2019, 04:47:37 PM »
So, apparently the discussion about the writing process for The Mirror and Lie is so interesting that nobody of us seemingly noticed that now there's an animated video for Barstool Warrior:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9b-Qc8e_vk

"Cutting the anchor away."
> Show a picture of a moored boat.

Come on.

DT would be better served by showing footage of them playing.  The odd lyric/animated video is fine, but now that's basically all we've had from them from D/T so far.  Especially Barstool Warrior, which seems to be the "it" track from D/T, give it a proper release.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Official Distance Over Time discussion thread
« Reply #1714 on: August 23, 2019, 05:33:18 PM »
I recall seeing comments about some people specifically wanting the 9-song version and thinking that was really odd -- kinda like choosing to buy the 16 ounce bottle of nectar instead of the 20-ounce bottle that costs the same price. 

I bought the "standard" 9 track CD, thinking if I wanted the "Bonus Track" I would just download it separately. Paraphrasing Steve McQueen in The Magnificent Seven: It made sense at the time. Then I got the CD, with no mention of VK on the disk, case, or liner notes. And then I put the CD in, and found out the CD had VK as Track 10. Now that is a bonus! Then on the forum I read that other people had the same experience. Was a CD with VK not included ever produced?

And I don't think anything about DT triggers me more than hearing Beneath the Surface is a "post-credits" scene or anything of the sort.
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