Official Distance Over Time discussion thread

[cramx3]

Dream Theater isn't a chorus band.

Has the band ever made this claim?

Of course not but there's been a few comments in this thread about a lack of memorable choruses.

They may not be a chorus band, but one of their best features is putting catchy vocal melodies into very technical music, it's what makes them so appealing to a bigger audience than your typical prog metal band IMO.

[Logain Ablar]

^ Totally agree. DT, for me, have got the "secret sauce" of technicality combined with accessibility.

Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.

[Moor]

Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.

Same here.

[Vandalism]

Haken does get it right sometimes....1985, Good Doctor, Veil etc.

[Bertielee]

Yes, but the afore mentioned bands don't have JP.

B.Lee

[Vandalism]

^ Totally agree. DT, for me, have got the "secret sauce" of technicality combined with accessibility.

Don't want to start a war, but I don't hear that with other bands, like Haken, Symphony X or whoever. Yes, they are fantastic musicians, but there's just some missing element for me that means I just can't get into their music in the same way.

Yes something is always missing with any other band. Sometimes when I am trying to give a new band a fair shake in my head, I visualize DT playing the song.

[Indiscipline]

Mr Kevin James LaBrie, the secret sauce.

[Bertielee]

Mr Kevin James LaBrie, the secret sauce.

And that as well.

[darkshade]

My main gripe was that I don't think some of the choruses 'fit' the rest of the song they are a part of, or the transition to the chorus could have been better/less clunky. Viper King stands out, Barstool Warrior, and perhaps S2N.

[Demolition]

After perusing through many of the posts, it looks like I am in the minority on this album.  I've only listened to it three times so I will see if it grows on me but this is the first album that I remember where I can't recall a single song really catching me.
  On my third time through, I was trying to listen closely to figure out why this was the case.  I think this is the strongest work by MM and I also really like the work JR has done on the tracks.  The guitar tracks by JP are strong but I have to admit I have to listen to the bass lines closer on my next listen.  So, if I think the instrumentals are strong, I am thinking what is the problem. 
This leads me to focus on the vocals.  To me, they just sound way too processed and they seem to be sung in a very similar fashion from one song to another.  I wish I had a musical background to better explain what I mean but when I go back to listen to DT's older albums, JLB sings in a more expansive way and his voice doesn't sound so processed.  I've noticed this happening more and more through the last 3 albums and it really hit me on this one.  Maybe its because JLB doesn't have the vocal range anymore or it's the way his vocals are being engineered but it isn't working for me so far on this one.  Hopefully this disc will grow on me, but if not it is destined for being one of my lowest ranked DT albums.

[EPIC Outro]

I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time!

[fadetoblackdude7]

I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time!

I initially thought it was weak, but the song has grown on me like crazy. Can’t get it out of my head!

[erciccio]

I've seen some talk about the chorus of PBD being sort of weak... I personally disagree. I sing along to that in my car every time!

I initially thought it was weak, but the song has grown on me like crazy. Can’t get it out of my head!

Same here 

[Stadler]

So... my copy finally came and I had a good spell in the car yesterday to listen to it through.   I will be giving it additional spins, but I made a very grave mistake after the first listen.    I listened to "The Great Adventure" (or at least the first disk of that album, and about three songs on disk two). 

It provided some really clear contrast.

Dream Theater was always a top tier band for me, up until September of 2010, and recently (within the last week or so) I was burning my CDs (and even DVD audio) to my network drive.   Really blown away by revisiting some old favorites, and even had a new perspective on some of them (About To Crash comes to mind).   This album is certainly a step in the right direction after The Astonishing (which didn't click for me) and generally I liked this.  I loved Jordan and James.  But there are a couple not minor criticisms:  One, Mangini.   I get it; monster, technical wizard, etc. etc.    It's just not the same, man. That bass drum is so... loud, for lack of a better word, it just overpowers, and again, I'm always sort of left with a clinical admiration, but no goosebumps. It just seems so .... jarring to me.  There are too many moments like the intro to Pale Blue Dot where you can almost hear him counting, and not enough like Out Of Reach where the song guides the players, and not the other way around.   

Two, Petrucci. Sho'nuff, he plays his ass off, and technique wise, he runs the gamut from blistering unison lines to some very Gilmour-esque solos (might be one of his best, from the solo perspective). But the rhythm sound is just so predictable. He just keeps going to that really compressed, really overdriven growly bass sound and it's boring.  The start of Paralyzed.  The start of Room 137.  The verse of Pale Blue Dot.   I want some of that Petrucci who was channeling Alex Lifeson on "Learning To Live" or better yet, "About To Crash". There was some of that on DT12 (The Looking Glass, I think it was) and a little here - the intro to Barstool Warrior - but not enough for my taste, at least not in comparison to the heavy, growling rhythm that dominates this album. 

Three, melodies; admittedly, I'm a melody guy.   I don't need "choruses" per se, but I do need those moments like "Voices" and  the "without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" section of Fatal Tragedy, where the melody sticks in my head and informs the music that comes after it.  No doubt, compositionally, DT are an exceptional band, but for my taste, there need to be more moments like in Barstool Warrior: "Call it bad luck... call it fate... Call it stuck here the rest of my days..." (The prechorus in Viper King is close).  I don't know if that is a conscious choice on their part, or a swing and a miss in terms of intent.   

End of the day: very good, not great, so far. Goosebump moments: zero, so far.

Contrast this to the new Neal Morse album.   I had two goosebump moments in the first overture! Excellent mix of vocalists to create a real sonic tapestry. I am braced for the inevitable "Mike has drummed this album four times in the last five years" but it works. He is mixed well, in the context of the other members, and it seems as if all occupy their own space in the sonic field. There is some typically strong playing from Mike, but it's never jarring and never works against the music.   Lyrically it's... ah who cares. I don't really listen to this (or DT) for the lyrics, but the melodies... I can't sing one track off the DT yet other than that chorus from Barstool Warrior (probably my favorite song on the record so far) but I have been singing "I Got To Run" for most of the day (and if I wasn't it would be one of "Venture In Black" or "Hey Ho Let's Go", as I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins).

I don't know if it as simple as the arranging skills of Portnoy, though I think not, because many of the criticisms I have of Dream Theater apply to Sons of Apollo.  That could  be the "compartmentalizing" that Mike does ('this is my trad prog album, this is my prog metal album, this is my..."), but I would love to hear this band playing the D/T material (meaning, hearing D/T using TGA setups/sounds) and I think it would make a world of difference. Goosebump moments: About six, so far.

I'll give both albums several more listens, and I'm going to see DT live (but passing on Neal Morse this time around), but these were my initial impressions.     
   

[bosk1]

We get it, Stadler.  If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you. 

But if we're going to compare the two albums you did, I'll just say this:  I got TGA early so I could review it, and I listened to it a bunch.  It is no secret from my review how much I love that album.  I was convinced it would likely be my album of the year, and that it would be a runaway.  As much as I love DT, I didn't think d/twould even be close, given the short running time. 

Now, having listened to d/t a bunch, it is VERY close, and I fell like d/t will likely take it.  PLENTY of goosebumps moments--moreso than most DT albums in recent history.  And aside from that, just good quality songwriting all the way around.  I have said this repeatedly throughout the Mangini era, but the consistency of this album, song-by-song, is incredible.  As much as I like TGA, I cannot say that same thing.  It's hard to rank them against each other.  Are there more minutes of music that I like better on TGA?  Maybe.  And I'm generally a "more is more" kind of guy when it comes to ranking albums.  (I rank Six Degrees ahead of A Change of Seasons, because the overall quality is equal, and while Six Degrees may have a few things I don't care for, when it comes to the things I DO care for, there's just MORE of it)  But, again, the quality of d/t is just SO consistent.  Whether I ultimately come down on the side of choosing d/t or not, the fact that such a short album with such short songs could even compete with TGA, much less possibly edge it out, speaks volumes to the quality.

[Architeuthis]

Man o' man Stadler! 
 I can't disagree more about JP's rhythm guitar tone, I think it may be his best ever. If your looking for Alex Lifeson tone or technique, didn't you listen to S2N?

Btw, I've been listening to TGA Alot too, fantastic album! 
I highly recommend seeing the Neal Morse Band on this tour!

[Samsara]

We get it, Stadler.  If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you.

 

[jammindude]

UPDATE - Amazon now says I will get my boxed set tomorrow.

At this point, I preordered so late that I’m just relieved that I’m getting one.

[abydos]

S2N sounds like a Portnoy-era song, might as well be on Systematic Chaos or something, especially the moment from 1:30 - 1:50.

[JLa]

I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".

For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.

And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.

[Kyo]

S2N sounds like a Portnoy-era song, might as well be on Systematic Chaos or something, especially the moment from 1:30 - 1:50.

I know what you mean, but I think it's a cool section. And I really love the following bit as well - too bad it leads to what I consider one of the low points of the album (2:10-2:22). From groovy and driving with a good flow to that stiff non-groove that just feels unnecessary - wish they'd written a direct transition to the chorus there.

[Loggins]

I ordered it and after a couple of days Amazon emailed me to say that m whole package was damaged and I would get a refund. I hurried onto the online webs and re-ordered. Then the original order showed up, and it I can't cancel the other so I guess I'll have a copy to give away.

It's a great album. I am still just finding my way around it.

[lovethedrake]

I don't get the chorus issue either....    I don't like the chorus in These Walls, Lost not forgotten, blind faith, eternal sacrifice etc... and I am loving this album. 

They definitely have some great choruses over the years( Take the Time, Pull Me Under, Voices) but it's not really their strong suit anyways IMO.

Not having a distinguishable chorus make it sound proggier which I like.

[KevShmev]

I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".

For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.

And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.

To me, all four Mangini-era albums have been mid-tier, but there is no shame in that.  I don't expect them to ever equal or top Awake, Scenes, I&W and 6DOIT, so 5th place through 9th (or 10th, or 11th) is mid-tier for me.  I think all four Mangini albums are better than all four albums they did from 2003-2009, although I do like Train of Thought a lot more than I used to, and a recent listen of Octavarium was quite nice.

[lovethedrake]

Personally I think the album gets better and better every time I hear it.   

Also, I agree that always staying melodic and poppy helps distinguish over other prog metal bands but not necessarily because of their choruses.     


I find a ton of distinguishable moments and distinct sounds on this album.   


Best album since SDOIT IMO.   

[robwebster]

Here's a silly question.

Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?

I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!

There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!

[Dream Team]

Here's a silly question.

Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?

I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!

There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!

Yes, JP just explained this in a recent interview. Don’t have the link.

[Dream Team]

I don't know, after the initial hype of "new DT, yay!" has calmed down, the album is more mid-tier material for me. I keep coming back to Barstool Warrior and to some extent Pale Blue Dot, but I really don't care that much for the rest. I've probably played the album 15-20 times by now, but nothing really sticks. People keep referring to S2N, At Wit's End, Room 137 - I don't remember anything from those songs and still have to put them on to remind myself "oh, right, that one".

For me the album is mostly like that. Hard to remember! Don't know why and I won't critisise the band or anything. Truth be told I haven't been fully into DT since Octavarium, so it's probably just my musical taste that has moved on, away from what DT are doing.

And that's fine, really. They still put out stuff I enjoy (Barstool Warrior!), and I can still re-visit all the classics from 90-00's. It's cool.

The second half of AWE doesn’t stand out to you? Ok.

[wolfking]

I still love this album.  Been checking out other purchases and new releases (Avantasia, Queensryche, I Flames, Starbreaker)  but I find myself coming back to D/T after each one and loving it every single time.

[lucasembarbosa]

Here's a silly question.

Do we know why the album's called Distance over Time, yet?

I sort of figured it might turn up in the lyrics somewhere. Still might have missed it!

There's no real reason it should have some special meaning that sums up the themes of the album. Train of Thought doesn't mean much, nor does Falling into Infinity. Just curious whether I missed an interview or anything!

He enjoyed to play with the velocity formula, D
                                                                  T

how it resembled Dream Theater's initials in a minimalist, stripped down way. The idea can be seen in the complementary artwork...

[erwinrafael]

DT foes a very different thing with a Beatles-esque like psychedelia section that is so unlike them, and then people say I don't remember anything from Room 137.

[PetFish]

Honestly, JP may really be the MVP on all DT albums, but, man, MM is on fire on D/T! So, this is how he sounds when he has a real say in what he does? OK, gimme that every day!

B.Lee

Mangini is definitely my pick for MVP on DoT.  Really amazing showcase for him.  You can tell he puts a lot of thought into his parts and isn't just winging it.  I'm not a drummer, but I hope the drummers here can appreciate what he's doing in.  I am a guitar player and JP didn't really do anything new or exciting here, and he doesn't have to, he's done plenty, but everything he did do on DoT is solid.

I also think DoT is my favourite sounding DT album in probably ever.  I just love it.

[Stadler]

We get it, Stadler.  If it doesn't have the musical and intellectual depth of Love Gun, and Mike Portnoy on drums, it isn't for you. 

I'm not sure that's really fair.  There's plenty of music with intellectual depth that I like.  For every Kiss album in my collection there's a Miles Davis or a Fish or Steely Dan or Robbie Robertson.  As far as Mike goes, I like Neal, I like Transatlantic, I like Flying Colors, but can take or leave The Winery Dogs, and leave Metal Allegiance and A-Mob.  Just because Mike is on it, doesn't make it gold.   That's kind of the point. There's no set rules and there's no roadmap.  I just spent the last two weeks re-acquainting myself with what I love about DT, and it's different to me in those terms, and in being different, it resonates less.  I'm not comparing Dream Theater to Kiss, I'm comparing it to itself, and, in this particular case, using another album "in the family" to illustrate my point.  Nothing more nothing less. 

But if we're going to compare the two albums you did, I'll just say this:  I got TGA early so I could review it, and I listened to it a bunch.  It is no secret from my review how much I love that album.  I was convinced it would likely be my album of the year, and that it would be a runaway.  As much as I love DT, I didn't think d/twould even be close, given the short running time. 

Now, having listened to d/t a bunch, it is VERY close, and I fell like d/t will likely take it.  PLENTY of goosebumps moments--moreso than most DT albums in recent history.  And aside from that, just good quality songwriting all the way around.  I have said this repeatedly throughout the Mangini era, but the consistency of this album, song-by-song, is incredible.  As much as I like TGA, I cannot say that same thing.  It's hard to rank them against each other.  Are there more minutes of music that I like better on TGA?  Maybe.  And I'm generally a "more is more" kind of guy when it comes to ranking albums.  (I rank Six Degrees ahead of A Change of Seasons, because the overall quality is equal, and while Six Degrees may have a few things I don't care for, when it comes to the things I DO care for, there's just MORE of it)  But, again, the quality of d/t is just SO consistent.  Whether I ultimately come down on the side of choosing d/t or not, the fact that such a short album with such short songs could even compete with TGA, much less possibly edge it out, speaks volumes to the quality.

I won't argue with consistent.  Not one bit.  It's certainly not one of those albums where I love songs 1, 2, 4, 7, and 9, and want to skip 3, 5, 6, and 8.  As for the goosebumps, well, I can't intellectualize that.  It kind of is what it is, and I don't usually fight it.  Not to say that it never comes later (it does; Marillion's "Afraid Of Sunlight" took years) and I will undoubtedly give it more listens before all is said and done. 

[Peter Mc]

So... my copy finally came and I had a good spell in the car yesterday to listen to it through.   I will be giving it additional spins, but I made a very grave mistake after the first listen.    I listened to "The Great Adventure" (or at least the first disk of that album, and about three songs on disk two). 

It provided some really clear contrast.

Dream Theater was always a top tier band for me, up until September of 2010, and recently (within the last week or so) I was burning my CDs (and even DVD audio) to my network drive.   Really blown away by revisiting some old favorites, and even had a new perspective on some of them (About To Crash comes to mind).   This album is certainly a step in the right direction after The Astonishing (which didn't click for me) and generally I liked this.  I loved Jordan and James.  But there are a couple not minor criticisms:  One, Mangini.   I get it; monster, technical wizard, etc. etc.    It's just not the same, man. That bass drum is so... loud, for lack of a better word, it just overpowers, and again, I'm always sort of left with a clinical admiration, but no goosebumps. It just seems so .... jarring to me.  There are too many moments like the intro to Pale Blue Dot where you can almost hear him counting, and not enough like Out Of Reach where the song guides the players, and not the other way around.   

Two, Petrucci. Sho'nuff, he plays his ass off, and technique wise, he runs the gamut from blistering unison lines to some very Gilmour-esque solos (might be one of his best, from the solo perspective). But the rhythm sound is just so predictable. He just keeps going to that really compressed, really overdriven growly bass sound and it's boring.  The start of Paralyzed.  The start of Room 137.  The verse of Pale Blue Dot.   I want some of that Petrucci who was channeling Alex Lifeson on "Learning To Live" or better yet, "About To Crash". There was some of that on DT12 (The Looking Glass, I think it was) and a little here - the intro to Barstool Warrior - but not enough for my taste, at least not in comparison to the heavy, growling rhythm that dominates this album. 

Three, melodies; admittedly, I'm a melody guy.   I don't need "choruses" per se, but I do need those moments like "Voices" and  the "without love, without truth... there can be no turning back!" section of Fatal Tragedy, where the melody sticks in my head and informs the music that comes after it.  No doubt, compositionally, DT are an exceptional band, but for my taste, there need to be more moments like in Barstool Warrior: "Call it bad luck... call it fate... Call it stuck here the rest of my days..." (The prechorus in Viper King is close).  I don't know if that is a conscious choice on their part, or a swing and a miss in terms of intent.   

End of the day: very good, not great, so far. Goosebump moments: zero, so far.

Contrast this to the new Neal Morse album.   I had two goosebump moments in the first overture! Excellent mix of vocalists to create a real sonic tapestry. I am braced for the inevitable "Mike has drummed this album four times in the last five years" but it works. He is mixed well, in the context of the other members, and it seems as if all occupy their own space in the sonic field. There is some typically strong playing from Mike, but it's never jarring and never works against the music.   Lyrically it's... ah who cares. I don't really listen to this (or DT) for the lyrics, but the melodies... I can't sing one track off the DT yet other than that chorus from Barstool Warrior (probably my favorite song on the record so far) but I have been singing "I Got To Run" for most of the day (and if I wasn't it would be one of "Venture In Black" or "Hey Ho Let's Go", as I'm not sure where one ends and the other begins).

I don't know if it as simple as the arranging skills of Portnoy, though I think not, because many of the criticisms I have of Dream Theater apply to Sons of Apollo.  That could  be the "compartmentalizing" that Mike does ('this is my trad prog album, this is my prog metal album, this is my..."), but I would love to hear this band playing the D/T material (meaning, hearing D/T using TGA setups/sounds) and I think it would make a world of difference. Goosebump moments: About six, so far.

I'll give both albums several more listens, and I'm going to see DT live (but passing on Neal Morse this time around), but these were my initial impressions.     
   

Please don’t give Mike Portnoy credit for how incredible the Neal Morse stuff sounds, as great a drummer as he undoubtedly is. NM was writing incredible songs and melodies long before he had even heard of Mike Portnoy. Mike’s legendary “arranging skills” were not able to save the countless projects he’s started since leaving DT from being bang average or worse (Adrenaline Mob, I’m looking at you). Put simply Mike’s stuff only sounds good when he aligns himself with great writers, whether that be Neal Morse and his endless supply of incredible melodies or Petrucci with the more technical, melodic metal side.

[KevShmev]

Exactly. 

As for the new DT vs the new NMB, while I am as big a fan of Neal and the Neal Morse Band as anybody here, I am taking Distance over Time over The Great Adventure.  The Great Adventure is a good record, but Distance over Time is just better to my ears.  I joked to a few people that after Haken and NMB gave us good but underwhelming albums this winter, it was up to Dream Theater to save the prog season...and they did.