Author Topic: 2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world  (Read 124940 times)

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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #210 on: March 22, 2019, 08:24:38 AM »
Bell and Brown are not the only ex-Steelers coming out and questioning Ben's leadership.  Ever notice that this doesn't happen with guys like Tom Brady and Drew Brees, quarterbacks who are great leaders?  This doesn't mean Ben is not a good QB; he certainly is.  He's just not a good leader.

Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose  :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.

Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.

I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #213 on: March 23, 2019, 07:02:16 AM »

 
Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose  :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.

This is complete horse hockey. I do not have a preconceived notion of Ben.  In fact, while I never thought he was a great leader per se, I don't think I ever really came out and said he was a poor one until all of this stuff came out recently.  My current option is based on what I have heard and read, not because of some preconceived notion that never existed.

As for who else is questioning Ben's leadership, not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but other ex-Steelers have as well recently, like Hines Ward and Ryan Clark.


Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.

I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.

I know many Steelers view it as a "Ben vs AB and L Bell" situation, but I do not.  Just because many are saying Ben is not a good leader does not mean they are taking the side of Brown and/or Bell.  I think there is plenty of blame to go around regarding the recent implosion of the Steelers star power, and Ben has his share of the pie in that regard.  Antonio Brown is a selfish a-hole who only cares about his stats (over winning), but that doesn't mean that some of the stuff he is saying about Ben might not be true.  Same thing with Bell, who just wanted to get paid big money.  Just because the motives of the two stars who left Pittsburgh are more than questionable does not mean that everything they are saying is wrong.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #214 on: March 24, 2019, 04:01:00 PM »
Gronk announced he's retiring.
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would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #216 on: March 24, 2019, 04:28:20 PM »
Now Brady and Belichick should follow suit in solidarity :biggrin:
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #217 on: March 24, 2019, 04:29:14 PM »
If you had Instagram (Which he announced it) or Twitter  or Facebook you would know.

You don't trust me? Come on man.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #218 on: March 24, 2019, 04:30:01 PM »
Now Brady and Belichick should follow suit in solidarity :biggrin:

Sounds like every prayer from Jets fans every year.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #219 on: March 24, 2019, 05:01:22 PM »
If you had Instagram (Which he announced it) or Twitter  or Facebook you would know.

You don't trust me? Come on man.

Oh no, that's not it at all. Your word is gold, man. I was just wanted to read about it.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #220 on: March 24, 2019, 05:03:11 PM »
You know I'm F'ing with you right? Twitter, Instagram? Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #221 on: March 25, 2019, 02:00:43 PM »
NFL Is opening up the 2019 season in Chicago because they're doing their whole 100 years thing and want to lead with the Packers and Bears.

Pats got screwed. Doubt anyone cares.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #222 on: March 25, 2019, 03:10:00 PM »
Even us Pats fans don't care.   Lol
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #223 on: March 25, 2019, 03:23:28 PM »
Even us Pats fans don't care.   Lol
Yep. Wake me up around week 5 or so.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #224 on: March 25, 2019, 07:14:56 PM »
Yeah, it's not a big deal. The whole "SB champ getting the first home game of the year" thing is kinda silly anyway.

As for Gronk, I think I agree with those saying he was the greatest TE of all time.  He didn't play long enough to accumulate stats like Tony Gonzalez, and he was a bit injury-prone at times, but when he was healthy and playing, he was unstoppable.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #225 on: March 26, 2019, 08:59:03 AM »
Even us Pats fans don't care.   Lol
Yep. Wake me up around week 5 or so.

I'm not even sure how they're getting screwed; if anything, Bill will turn it into a "see how little they respect you fucks?" line and Brady will be (yet again) the greatest player in history to ever play with a chip on his shoulder.   

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #226 on: March 26, 2019, 06:33:38 PM »
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials

Quote
PHOENIX -- Pass interference, whether flagged or not, can be challenged by coaches and reviewed by officials next season.

NFL team owners voted Tuesday on a one-year trial basis to include those often-controversial penalties in the officiating replay review system. Coaches still will have two challenges per game, and in the final two minutes of a half or fourth quarter or for all of overtime, the replay official can order a review of offensive or defensive pass interference.

The major change -- owners traditionally have been highly reluctant to include any penalties in the replay process -- stems from an egregious missed call in the NFC championship game that likely led to the Rams making the Super Bowl and the Saints falling short.

Flagged or not, that's quite a change.

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #227 on: March 26, 2019, 06:41:35 PM »
About damn time. They have the technology. Time to get it right.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #228 on: March 26, 2019, 07:19:55 PM »
About damn time. They have the technology. Time to get it right.

I couldn't agree more.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #229 on: March 26, 2019, 07:52:24 PM »
If I'm with the NFL, what I do is have a couple of interns watch every angle of every play of a couple of games and see just how many penalties there are. I suspect there are 2 penalties per  play on average. Maybe even 3 per play. Hold here. Hand to the face there. Half a yard too late. Half a step too early. A whole lot of calls that are overlooked either because they couldn't be seen or they're just discretionary enough to not be worth calling. I don't think anybody in their right mind wants a game called completely by the book, which is why the owners were opposed to instant replay on subjective matters. I think they were right and they're caving here.
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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2019, 08:14:07 PM »
Yup. Every time a rule change is added,  it becomes harder for the refs.  Add HD reviews and is just a damn mess.
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Offline Rattlehead

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2019, 08:23:59 PM »
I have mixed feelings about this, although I am mostly in favor of the change. I think the NFL felt like they had to do something after the Saints were completely robbed of a Super Bowl appearance due to incompetent officiating.

It makes a lot of sense to me, but I'm still surprised that it passed - in a way it seems it could hurt their product by dragging these games out even longer. I'm not particularly worried about that myself, but I know one of the big complaints many have with the NFL is that the games are too long.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2019, 08:38:13 PM »
I don't mind adding PI to the list of things you can challenge and overturn.  Teams aren't getting more challenges because of this so it kind of doesn't slow the game down any much more except under 2 minutes and maybe that does have a potential to bog down the ending of games.  But I think being able to challenge non calls is a very slippery slope.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #233 on: March 27, 2019, 06:37:15 AM »
I'd be interested to see how often teams use all of their challenges in a game, because if this rule applies to the final 2 minutes of each half, it seems that we're going to be entering a challenge happy era of the NFL. Since teams will be able to challenge non-calls, why would they not use up their challenges every game? I'm all for getting the call right, but I totally agree that the ability to challenge non-calls is a slippery slope for the NFL.

Maybe I'm overanalyzing the potential for this to add time to games, but I could see this adding 10-15+ minutes and more commercials to games. I'm sure the sponsors, bars and restaurants will like this, but the games are already long enough and jam packed with commercials  :lol

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #234 on: March 27, 2019, 08:18:17 AM »

 
Huh? Who else is questioning Ben's leadership? That one RB that said Ben fumbled on purpose  :lol That was hilarious. If there is one thing Ben is, it's a fierce competitor, not in his DNA at all to do that. And the backup QB, who was on the headset for the play broke that down and disproved what that guy said. Should we disregard his logical, common sense, explanation of the play because it doesn't fit your preconceived opinion of Ben? Because that's what it feels like we are doing here.

This is complete horse hockey. I do not have a preconceived notion of Ben.  In fact, while I never thought he was a great leader per se, I don't think I ever really came out and said he was a poor one until all of this stuff came out recently.  My current option is based on what I have heard and read, not because of some preconceived notion that never existed.

Not to dive back into this conversation, because I think we might just agree to disagree here, but I thought I'd at least respond to a couple points here.

For some reason, I thought I remembered you slamming Ben long before AB and Bell drama, so I figured you didn't like the guy, I apologize if that isn't the case.

As for who else is questioning Ben's leadership, not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse or not, but other ex-Steelers have as well recently, like Hines Ward and Ryan Clark.

Not being obtuse, I don't remember hearing anything from those guys, honestly though, hearing the local coverage of this stuff new stuff comes up everyday so talking points have had a short shelf life. I will say that you've seen several current Steelers going out of their way to praise Ben and his leadership including Juju and Connor.


Bell and Brown are self-serving. Everything is always someone else's fault, not theirs. They have played the race card throughout their departures. The race card. They played for a black head coach in Pittsburgh. They played for the team that created the Rooney rule. They played for Dan Rooney who was Obama's ambassador to Ireland. These guys are nuts, and the fact that some people can't see that is astonishing. Watch Bell's insane SI interview, he complained that he didn't get enough touches. I believe in 2017, he had more touches than any other RB (or close to it), and he actually complained in 2017 about being worked too hard and being given too many touches. Just one example of many, these guys just say stuff.

I get that people that live elsewhere and follow national coverage of the Steelers don't hear as much coverage as we do locally (obviously). When Ben became a Steeler, there was a coach and a locker room of established leaders, who put the team first. They won a Super Bowl together, and along the way Ben became a leader. When they won their second Super Bowl with Ben, most of those great locker room leaders were gone and a new coach with a new approach had entered. Then all those vet leaders retired, and it was pretty much just Ben. For the record, I'm not saying Ben is a great leader, I think he has flaws as a leader. I'm pushing back on him being called a bad leader. As someone who has watched him and this team every single day since he came into the league, I think Ben is a good leader who has made mistakes. And I also think that these guys like Brown and Bell placing blame on him is dumb and misplaced. Brown and Bell are about money and nothing else. Literally nothing else factors into their decision making.

I know many Steelers view it as a "Ben vs AB and L Bell" situation, but I do not.  Just because many are saying Ben is not a good leader does not mean they are taking the side of Brown and/or Bell.  I think there is plenty of blame to go around regarding the recent implosion of the Steelers star power, and Ben has his share of the pie in that regard.  Antonio Brown is a selfish a-hole who only cares about his stats (over winning), but that doesn't mean that some of the stuff he is saying about Ben might not be true.  Same thing with Bell, who just wanted to get paid big money.  Just because the motives of the two stars who left Pittsburgh are more than questionable does not mean that everything they are saying is wrong.

I don't really view it super black and white as a "Ben vs AB and Bell" thing either. I think Brown and Bell are just trying to create a narrative, that's all. I also agree that Ben shares blame here, but not the blame that you are referring to. I think Ben could have been the sweetest, nicest, best-est, greatest, etc... leader in the world and Bell and AB would still not be Steelers right now. I think the blame that lays on his shoulders is more about the team underachieving this year and missing the playoffs. This team, even without Bell should have been a playoff team. As a leader of the team, he has a lot of blame for missing the post season. As a Steelers fan, that's what I care about much more than the diva RB and WR's retention.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #235 on: March 27, 2019, 12:17:17 PM »
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26367953/pass-interference-now-reviewable-officials

Quote
PHOENIX -- Pass interference, whether flagged or not, can be challenged by coaches and reviewed by officials next season.

NFL team owners voted Tuesday on a one-year trial basis to include those often-controversial penalties in the officiating replay review system. Coaches still will have two challenges per game, and in the final two minutes of a half or fourth quarter or for all of overtime, the replay official can order a review of offensive or defensive pass interference.

The major change -- owners traditionally have been highly reluctant to include any penalties in the replay process -- stems from an egregious missed call in the NFC championship game that likely led to the Rams making the Super Bowl and the Saints falling short.

Flagged or not, that's quite a change.

It's a step in the right direction, but I'd rather have a dedicated booth official who watches on multiple screens and who who can "throw" a flag just like any of the other officials.  IMO, that would be preferable to making one particular type of penalty subject to coaches challenges.


I'd be interested to see how often teams use all of their challenges in a game, because if this rule applies to the final 2 minutes of each half, it seems that we're going to be entering a challenge happy era of the NFL. Since teams will be able to challenge non-calls, why would they not use up their challenges every game? I'm all for getting the call right, but I totally agree that the ability to challenge non-calls is a slippery slope for the NFL.

In the final two minutes of each half, coaches cannot challenge anything, and ALL reviews are initiated from the booth.  This new rule simply expands the existing rule to make PI calls or non-calls subject to review.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 12:22:30 PM by pg1067 »
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Offline Rattlehead

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #236 on: March 27, 2019, 12:22:01 PM »
Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense - apparently I read over the change too quickly and misinterpreted that important detail  :lol

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #237 on: March 27, 2019, 07:18:35 PM »
mikeyd23, yes, I think we can agree to disagree. :)

I do think the Steelers will miss A. Brown a lot on the field, far more than they missed L Bell last year.  A. Brown has been arguably the best WR in football the last five years and was highly productive.  It remains to be seen how well JuJu will do being the number 1 and being the main focal point of the defense's pass coverage. I do think their signing of Montcrief was a great one.  And no one drafts WRs better than the Steelers, so I am sure they will find a gem in this year's draft, and then Washington could always still pan out. They will be fine in the long term, but they are gonna miss Brown a lot at first.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #238 on: March 28, 2019, 07:12:25 AM »
mikeyd23, yes, I think we can agree to disagree. :)

I do think the Steelers will miss A. Brown a lot on the field, far more than they missed L Bell last year.  A. Brown has been arguably the best WR in football the last five years and was highly productive.  It remains to be seen how well JuJu will do being the number 1 and being the main focal point of the defense's pass coverage. I do think their signing of Montcrief was a great one.  And no one drafts WRs better than the Steelers, so I am sure they will find a gem in this year's draft, and then Washington could always still pan out. They will be fine in the long term, but they are gonna miss Brown a lot at first.

See now I agree with all that  :tup

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #239 on: March 28, 2019, 07:18:32 AM »
Brown again took a shot at Juju on Twitter yesterday.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #240 on: March 28, 2019, 07:24:16 AM »
Brown again took a shot at Juju on Twitter yesterday.

Yup, he's done that twice I think. As a Steeler fan, I was hoping we'd be done with the drama, I guess not. So far the organization is playing it right, not really commenting too much on anything.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #241 on: March 28, 2019, 07:31:23 AM »
Yup.  As they should. 

I'm interested in seeing that division next year.  It's going to be an all out battle.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #242 on: March 28, 2019, 08:54:47 AM »
Yup.  As they should. 

I'm interested in seeing that division next year.  It's going to be an all out battle.

It'll be an interesting division for sure, I'm honestly not sure what to expect from it.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #243 on: March 28, 2019, 03:52:11 PM »
So Greg Schiano drops out of the Patriots DC position after getting hired to spend time with his family, but this comes the same day as Zach Smith says he is releasing a podcast about I guess his time at OSU where he coached with Schiano before he was fired over the summer for alleged domestic abuse that maybe the school knew about and looked the other way.  Essentially it makes me wonder if he is about to rub some dirt on Schiano that is going to make him want to get out of the public light, now. 

https://saturdaytradition.com/ohio-state-football/ex-ohio-state-assistant-zach-smith-set-to-release-new-podcast-warns-no-one-is-safe/

Quote
No one is safe. I don’t care about anybody. Everyone is going to know what really happened.
yikes I wonder what this guy has to say about the Ohio State scandal and who it might impact.

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Re: 2019 NFL Thread v. Free Agent Madness
« Reply #244 on: March 28, 2019, 04:48:24 PM »
No surprise there.  You knew it was something bad.  What an idiot.
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