Does Tony Iommi deserve to be among the guitar greats?

[Elite]

nevermind.

[gazinwales]

Yes someone would have come along, down tuned, invented metal, but they didn't, Iommi did.
He also has played with a significant handicap of two fingertips missing.
The most unique thing about Iommi is, nobody and I mean not one other guitarist sounds like him.
They can play his riffs, his signature guitar, his amp, but that sound is his and his alone.

[wolfking]

They can play his riffs, his signature guitar, his amp, but that sound is his and his alone.

This is what makes him stand out above the rest.  This trumps technical ability.

[Stadler]

Saying Iommi's playing isn't technical is like saying Alexander Graham Bell's telephone isn't technical.

Not bad actually. Compared to what was happening at the time, the telephone was very technical. Compared to Iphones, however, not so much. Similar to Tony.

Exactly my point.

"Hoy, hoy.   Bell here.  This is number one.  You want number two."   

[Stadler]

I get it, about the technical ability; I can play just about anything from the first four records, and that should tell you all you need to know.   But I think it's more than that.   The way he put disparate pieces together (look at War Pigs; there isn't just the main riff, there are like five or six cool, independent pieces in there that all fit together nicely).    Plus the material in the later Ozzy years was, in my humble opinion, very prog, and when you consider that most of that was made by two guys - Geezer and Tony - it's pretty miraculous.

We forget, too, that he was the guy in Tull for a while (well, two weeks) so at some point he was considered by his peers to be a player of some note and capability.

I'm loathe to judge players by what goes on record.    There are guys - Iommi is one of them, Angus Young is another - that I just think have a bigger picture in mind.   I have no doubt that they COULD play other things, but if you look at the sort of troubled history of Sabbath post Mob Rules, what was the incentive to do anything different?   If anything, at that point he doubled down on the "Riffmaster General" crap (especially when Dio was in the band) and I think it hurt him.  It's not what you think of when you think "SABBATH" but I think some of the stuff on Never Say Die! is really, really interesting playing.

[Bertielee]

WildRanger, can you please give me an explanation in why he wouldn't be a guitar great?

Creator of metal as we know it.  A riff machine where riffs like Children of the Grave, Into the Void, Under the Sun, Black Sabbath, Symptom of the Universe, Iron Man etc. are still heavier than anything released today.

While not being a full blown shredder, his leads are melodic with lots of feel and purpose, with a jazz background that shows at times.  I look at Tony's guitar career more like the Ozzy era is where his riffs are dominant and then from Heaven and Hell through to the end of the Tony Martin era is where while his riffs still are Godly, his lead playing really started to shine.  Lonely is the Word, Over and Over, Born to Lose, Kill in the Spirit World, Keep It Warm, Devil and Daughter, Glory Ride, Jerusalem plus many more all have some of my fav solos ever.

Amen, Brother.

[Indiscipline]

Thankfully guitar isn't played in a vacuum.

You sound like no one else and write music unheard before, you get to join Iommi and roughly 250 other immortals.

You reach the peak of technicality and you join 25000000 anonymous finger athletes.

[TAC]

Thankfully guitar isn't played in a vacuum.

Say what?

[MirrorMask]

You sound like no one else and write music unheard before, you get to join Iommi and roughly 250 other immortals.

You reach the peak of technicality and you join 25000000 anonymous finger athletes.

And half of them are 10 years old kids whose YouTube account have more followers than your Facebook, Twitter and Instagram pages combined, who are better than you anyway.

[El Barto]

Obviously he does, and we've yet to hear from any of the [now 6] no votes. I will say I agree about his technical limitations, and they actually do matter, though. To go back to what Kev wrote, no, you don't need to be able to play 4600 notes per minute. It does help if you're able to if that's what the song calls for, though. Tony got by incredibly well by not needing to do that. Were he able that might well have made him an even better guitarist. It's another tool in the box and therefore counts as a limitation.

Also, since Wolfking made his list, I was always fond of the Ancient Warrior solo. It has a wonderful Gilmouresque quality.

[Orbert]

We forget, too, that he was the guy in Tull for a while (well, two weeks) so at some point he was considered by his peers to be a player of some note and capability.

I never knew that!

Actually, I suppose it's possible that I did know it at one time and then forgot it, which would be the same as thinking I never knew it in the first place.  Interesting...  Maybe I did forget it, and then forgot that I forgot it.

[Stadler]

We forget, too, that he was the guy in Tull for a while (well, two weeks) so at some point he was considered by his peers to be a player of some note and capability.

I never knew that!

Actually, I suppose it's possible that I did know it at one time and then forgot it, which would be the same as thinking I never knew it in the first place.  Interesting...  Maybe I did forget it, and then forgot that I forgot it.

Find the Rolling Stones' Rock and Roll Circus; he appeared with Tull (though if memory serves, he mimed). 

[Adami]

We forget, too, that he was the guy in Tull for a while (well, two weeks) so at some point he was considered by his peers to be a player of some note and capability.

I never knew that!

Actually, I suppose it's possible that I did know it at one time and then forgot it, which would be the same as thinking I never knew it in the first place.  Interesting...  Maybe I did forget it, and then forgot that I forgot it.

Apparently he did two appearances with them right around the time they began in 1968. Not sure I'd read a whole lot into that.

[wolfking]

Also, since Wolfking made his list, I was always fond of the Ancient Warrior solo. It has a wonderful Gilmouresque quality.

How the hell did I miss this?  That harmonic minor section right at the start of the solo is all class, and shows a bit more to Tony's playing and knowledge than what we are used to.

I agree too, technical limitations can be somewhat of a disadvantage at times escpecially on the type of album like Dehumanizer where some nice shred would probably work well, but for the most part, I haven't really thought that Tony's lack in that area has hurt the band or their sound in any way. 

[Stadler]

Honestly - and I'm not making the case for Iommi technically here - but that he DIDN'T shred there is why I still LOVE Sabbath and yet don't listen to very many of the imitators.     

[Cool Chris]

I will say I agree about his technical limitations, and they actually do matter, though. To go back to what Kev wrote, no, you don't need to be able to play 4600 notes per minute. It does help if you're able to if that's what the song calls for, though. Tony got by incredibly well by not needing to do that. Were he able that might well have made him an even better guitarist. It's another tool in the box and therefore counts as a limitation.

But they never wrote songs that called for shredding, thus it wasn't ever an issue. Greg Maddux didn't have a 98 MPH fastball in his toolbox. Was it a limitation? Maybe, Did it hamper his career, possibly, but not to any large extent. Tony could have been an "even better guitarist" but only marginally.

[crazy climber dude]

I voted yes....a thousand times yes. If just for the riffs alone......they are so haunting and compelling.

But I think wolfking explained his depth as a guitarist as well. So many of his solos are top notch.......seeing him live completely confirmed that for me. There are only certain guitarists who can move me emotionally....he is definitely one of them. So from where I stand, that puts him in the elite guitar-playing stratosphere.

[TAC]

https://www.loudersound.com/features/tony-iommi-how-i-wrote-the-riff-to-symptom-of-the-universe

Cool article,

[wolfking]

Yeah, that was a cool little read.