Author Topic: The 2020 Election Thread  (Read 108383 times)

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Offline axeman90210

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3465 on: October 23, 2020, 11:57:41 AM »
No one thought he would win, even Hillary.

But, he did and now he's here. He's taking a lot of shit though. Taking it in full stride and not letting it affect him, that shows how strong of a person he is. Actually ruining his reputation in the process too. Once he leaves, I doubt anyone will care about him anymore, and won't want to do anything with him. So, he will likely leave the country and live out his life somewhere he can afford to go to, maybe an island.

You sure Trump doesn't want to lose the presidency because he still has promises he wants to fulfill. Like his wall...
Yeah I kinda wonder what he would do. The guy is a workaholic, and he's not a career politician; I think he'd just go back to development/business.

The rumor was that he was going to go in on a news enterprise when everyone thought he was going to lose in 2016
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3466 on: October 23, 2020, 12:19:26 PM »
If he's not affected by it, it's just because he doesn't care, because he doesn't have the sense of duty and responsability that every decent average joe feels when they're doing their ordinary job. Every president leaving office looks 20 years older than when they assumed it, Trump will be the only one to look the same because he just doesn't care enough to feel the weight of the office.
This is a big part of it. There's also the fact that he already thinks he's the greatest president in US history, with or without fulfilling any of his promises.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3467 on: October 23, 2020, 12:23:00 PM »
But, he did and now he's here. He's taking a lot of shit though. Taking it in full stride and not letting it affect him, that shows how strong of a person he is. Actually ruining his reputation in the process too. Once he leaves, I doubt anyone will care about him anymore, and won't want to do anything with him. So, he will likely leave the country and live out his life somewhere he can afford to go to, maybe an island.
Trump will never, ever retire. The only thing that gives him any pleasure in life is winning. Whether that comes from making money, banging skanky pornstars, or wielding political power, it's all about the personal victories. A sensible person would retire someplace awesome and enjoy their autumn years. Trump would find no enjoyment in that.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3468 on: October 23, 2020, 12:36:55 PM »
But, he did and now he's here. He's taking a lot of shit though. Taking it in full stride and not letting it affect him, that shows how strong of a person he is. Actually ruining his reputation in the process too. Once he leaves, I doubt anyone will care about him anymore, and won't want to do anything with him. So, he will likely leave the country and live out his life somewhere he can afford to go to, maybe an island.
Trump will never, ever retire. The only thing that gives him any pleasure in life is winning. Whether that comes from making money, banging skanky pornstars, or wielding political power, it's all about the personal victories. A sensible person would retire someplace awesome and enjoy their autumn years. Trump would find no enjoyment in that.



I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man

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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3469 on: October 23, 2020, 12:49:34 PM »
Something I'd like to ask the guy is if Trump has a favorite movie, aside from Home Alone 2. Or a favorite TV show besides The Apprentice. A favorite song or band other than Kid Rock or Ted Nugent. I can't call the guy joyless because he does receive pleasure from the baying of his minions, but it seems to be entirely self-centered, and never artistic in any sort of way. In his position I'd have retired to Switzerland in the mid 80s, but skiing, beautiful scenery, and easy access to an endless assortment of culture simply wouldn't appeal to him.

But, he did and now he's here. He's taking a lot of shit though. Taking it in full stride and not letting it affect him, that shows how strong of a person he is. Actually ruining his reputation in the process too. Once he leaves, I doubt anyone will care about him anymore, and won't want to do anything with him. So, he will likely leave the country and live out his life somewhere he can afford to go to, maybe an island.
Trump will never, ever retire. The only thing that gives him any pleasure in life is winning. Whether that comes from making money, banging skanky pornstars, or wielding political power, it's all about the personal victories. A sensible person would retire someplace awesome and enjoy their autumn years. Trump would find no enjoyment in that.

To his credit, winning to Charlie there was all about enjoying himself. For him, banging slightly less skanky porn stars was something he was into, as opposed to simply another trophy to obtain.
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Offline emtee

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3470 on: October 23, 2020, 12:59:50 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)

Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3471 on: October 23, 2020, 01:08:56 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)
How senile Joe is. How the democratic led congress won't follow the rules. How FOX constantly attacks Biden and MSNBC won't stop blowing smoke about him. How Biden's opening the floodgates for immigrants and letting killers and rapists out of jail. How the economy would have died slightly slower if Trump were still in power.  Goes on and on.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3472 on: October 23, 2020, 01:26:40 PM »
The level of gaslighting and revisionist history is staggering

Trump: “I ran because of you Joe. If you had done a good job I never would have run”

Oily Vey.
Just to to highlight, this was said specifically when Biden was talking about commuting sentences and reducing incarceration (of black people in particular in this conversation) for drugs and Trump was saying they didn't do a good enough job. I don't doubt that Trump has said or at least it was implied that he ran because Obama did a "terrible, terrible job" in general or regarding some issues like immigration.  But it was the implication that it was Obama / Biden not doing enough to reform the justice system, in particularly to address unfair treatment of black people, which played a part in Trump running that made this statement ring comically false.

Trump “why didn’t you get it done joe? 8 years as VP, why didn’t you get It done?”
Biden “I’ll tell you why .... Republican Congress”
< silence >

That shut Trump the fuck up. He was literally speechless.
I interpreted that moment very differently. After Biden said that, Trump said "Why didn't you talk to them, then?" It wasn't silence. Trump was not "literally speechless." And also, it wasn't Republican Congress for a great span of time. This was a point for Trump.

I didn’t hear that at all in the broadcast I was watching. It was literally about 5 seconds of silence. I was specifically looking at Trump, and didn’t catch him saying anything.

Just to be clear, I definitely caught it on my broadcast.  Trump said, and I think this is a direct quote but have not double checked, "Sometimes you have to talk to them, Joe." 

EDIT: Also to be fair, it was not immediate.  There was definitely a hesitation. 
From memory the way it went was that there was silence after he said it , because Biden just made it a short answer instead of speaking for longer. After a lengthy pause Trump then said "You have to talk to them" (or something very similar) but it was just as the moderator was asking the next question, so it may not have been heard very well and it wasn't followed up on by either as the moderator was moving onto the next question.

So Biden did get the *mic drop* silence, and Trump did then say about negotiating with them. Of course it would only be considered a remotely "mic drop" worthy line if you know the context and remember Republicans taking a hard line on obstructing Obama on various things. I think the fact that it was clear Biden didn't really want to just blame Republican Congress and only eventually said it after Trumo repetitively asked "Why didn't you do it already? Why couldn't you get this done or that done? " was helpful to it not just sounding like easy excuse making. It seemed he knew saying "but Republicans didn't do it" wasn't a good strategy (even though it can be frustrating to those who know it's an obvious answer to why certain things weren't done) and instead mostly focus on saying they did do this or start this or attempt this but we still need to do more.

Of course, as well as needing Congress (whether your own party or cooperation from the other side), there's also the point that major, long term, systemic issues can't just be fixed in a single presidency, even in 8 years. It's a shame that its probably a losing argument for a politician to try and make this point. Even the greatest leader in the world wouldn't be able to "fix racism" or "end poverty" in 8 years. I think Biden called out Trump for being even worse than most when it comes to promising quick fixes when talking about coronavirus, I feel that same thing ties into questions along the lines of "How can there still be anything to improve when you've been vice president before?"

The debate format and fewer interruptions was better. As the debate went on the whole mic muting thing mattered less though because both candidates spent so long in the "let me respond to that" phase after the questions where it wasn't anyone's turn, they probably should have cut them off to move on to the next question sometimes. But at least we got to hear the two minutes uninterrupted, and the back and forth sections were better structured than last time.

Nowhere in your post did you acknowledge that Obama had a Democratic Senate for 75% of his term.   Not saying that means Biden is culpable, but it's a fact that cannot be glossed over with debate gotchas and zingers.   

Question for you:   does it work the other way?  If these problems can't be FIXED in eight years, can they be caused in four? 

Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3473 on: October 23, 2020, 01:33:33 PM »
The number of people who have voted early is staggering. Record breaking. Usually that is good for the D's. We'll know in a couple weeks. Maybe.

Here in Connecticut they ran a stat on that last night, based on an informal survey of likely voters.  Of the people that voted early, something like 65% voted Democrat.  Of the people waiting to vote on Election Day, it's something like 68% Republican.  The question then is, what are the raw numbers?     65% of a 1000 is great if the 68% is of 100, but it blows if it's 68% of 10,000.    It would seem that with record numbers voting early that it's likely the former, not the latter, but it's going to be an interesting day on November 3.

Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3474 on: October 23, 2020, 01:47:52 PM »
The level of gaslighting and revisionist history is staggering

Trump: “I ran because of you Joe. If you had done a good job I never would have run”

Oily Vey.
Just to to highlight, this was said specifically when Biden was talking about commuting sentences and reducing incarceration (of black people in particular in this conversation) for drugs and Trump was saying they didn't do a good enough job. I don't doubt that Trump has said or at least it was implied that he ran because Obama did a "terrible, terrible job" in general or regarding some issues like immigration.  But it was the implication that it was Obama / Biden not doing enough to reform the justice system, in particularly to address unfair treatment of black people, which played a part in Trump running that made this statement ring comically false.

Trump “why didn’t you get it done joe? 8 years as VP, why didn’t you get It done?”
Biden “I’ll tell you why .... Republican Congress”
< silence >

That shut Trump the fuck up. He was literally speechless.
I interpreted that moment very differently. After Biden said that, Trump said "Why didn't you talk to them, then?" It wasn't silence. Trump was not "literally speechless." And also, it wasn't Republican Congress for a great span of time. This was a point for Trump.

I didn’t hear that at all in the broadcast I was watching. It was literally about 5 seconds of silence. I was specifically looking at Trump, and didn’t catch him saying anything.

Just to be clear, I definitely caught it on my broadcast.  Trump said, and I think this is a direct quote but have not double checked, "Sometimes you have to talk to them, Joe." 

EDIT: Also to be fair, it was not immediate.  There was definitely a hesitation. 
From memory the way it went was that there was silence after he said it , because Biden just made it a short answer instead of speaking for longer. After a lengthy pause Trump then said "You have to talk to them" (or something very similar) but it was just as the moderator was asking the next question, so it may not have been heard very well and it wasn't followed up on by either as the moderator was moving onto the next question.

So Biden did get the *mic drop* silence, and Trump did then say about negotiating with them. Of course it would only be considered a remotely "mic drop" worthy line if you know the context and remember Republicans taking a hard line on obstructing Obama on various things. I think the fact that it was clear Biden didn't really want to just blame Republican Congress and only eventually said it after Trumo repetitively asked "Why didn't you do it already? Why couldn't you get this done or that done? " was helpful to it not just sounding like easy excuse making. It seemed he knew saying "but Republicans didn't do it" wasn't a good strategy (even though it can be frustrating to those who know it's an obvious answer to why certain things weren't done) and instead mostly focus on saying they did do this or start this or attempt this but we still need to do more.

Of course, as well as needing Congress (whether your own party or cooperation from the other side), there's also the point that major, long term, systemic issues can't just be fixed in a single presidency, even in 8 years. It's a shame that its probably a losing argument for a politician to try and make this point. Even the greatest leader in the world wouldn't be able to "fix racism" or "end poverty" in 8 years. I think Biden called out Trump for being even worse than most when it comes to promising quick fixes when talking about coronavirus, I feel that same thing ties into questions along the lines of "How can there still be anything to improve when you've been vice president before?"

The debate format and fewer interruptions was better. As the debate went on the whole mic muting thing mattered less though because both candidates spent so long in the "let me respond to that" phase after the questions where it wasn't anyone's turn, they probably should have cut them off to move on to the next question sometimes. But at least we got to hear the two minutes uninterrupted, and the back and forth sections were better structured than last time.

Nowhere in your post did you acknowledge that Obama had a Democratic Senate for 75% of his term.   Not saying that means Biden is culpable, but it's a fact that cannot be glossed over with debate gotchas and zingers.   

Question for you:   does it work the other way?  If these problems can't be FIXED in eight years, can they be caused in four?
I noticed the other day that Trump had made judicial appointments in vacancies held open since 2012/2013. So the GOP senate clearly had enough power to block his nominations for a full half of his term.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3475 on: October 23, 2020, 01:49:33 PM »


Him not being a career politician is a big factor in my speculation of what he might do if he loses, or even after he finishes his final term. I swear the Trump fear/hate is real, and is one that is fueling people's speculations, and being clouded by that fear/hate. The people that fear him, are afraid he's going to be a career politician, those that hate him are saying he will do anything to Fellatio his ego and stay in the spotlight in any way possible, because he's a fascist dictator (emphasis).

I don't like the guy, but I don't hate him, nor do I fear him. It's actually hard for me to hate people, but it's not as hard to dislike someone.

I agree with this pretty strongly.  It's almost as if the hate is so strong that it precludes any possible out come that isn't steeped in schadenfreude.  Personally, I don't hate or fear him either; I'm not a fan; he's everything I don't like about our social media/reality TV fast food society.   But I don't wish him to fail, either; I get no pleasure from that. 

I think he will not disappear, but he won't be an active player in politics like a Bill Clinton, or (to a lesser degree) a Barack Obama.   He certainly won't be anything like a Bush, Sr. or Bush, Jr..  I think he does something that is in keeping with his character; a reality TV show.   He won't be a darling of mainstream media, because of the aversion to anyone that even has the whiff of "racist", but he will have a media presence.

My prediction.

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3476 on: October 23, 2020, 02:01:40 PM »
The level of gaslighting and revisionist history is staggering

Trump: “I ran because of you Joe. If you had done a good job I never would have run”

Oily Vey.
Just to to highlight, this was said specifically when Biden was talking about commuting sentences and reducing incarceration (of black people in particular in this conversation) for drugs and Trump was saying they didn't do a good enough job. I don't doubt that Trump has said or at least it was implied that he ran because Obama did a "terrible, terrible job" in general or regarding some issues like immigration.  But it was the implication that it was Obama / Biden not doing enough to reform the justice system, in particularly to address unfair treatment of black people, which played a part in Trump running that made this statement ring comically false.

Trump “why didn’t you get it done joe? 8 years as VP, why didn’t you get It done?”
Biden “I’ll tell you why .... Republican Congress”
< silence >

That shut Trump the fuck up. He was literally speechless.
I interpreted that moment very differently. After Biden said that, Trump said "Why didn't you talk to them, then?" It wasn't silence. Trump was not "literally speechless." And also, it wasn't Republican Congress for a great span of time. This was a point for Trump.

I didn’t hear that at all in the broadcast I was watching. It was literally about 5 seconds of silence. I was specifically looking at Trump, and didn’t catch him saying anything.

Just to be clear, I definitely caught it on my broadcast.  Trump said, and I think this is a direct quote but have not double checked, "Sometimes you have to talk to them, Joe." 

EDIT: Also to be fair, it was not immediate.  There was definitely a hesitation. 
From memory the way it went was that there was silence after he said it , because Biden just made it a short answer instead of speaking for longer. After a lengthy pause Trump then said "You have to talk to them" (or something very similar) but it was just as the moderator was asking the next question, so it may not have been heard very well and it wasn't followed up on by either as the moderator was moving onto the next question.

So Biden did get the *mic drop* silence, and Trump did then say about negotiating with them. Of course it would only be considered a remotely "mic drop" worthy line if you know the context and remember Republicans taking a hard line on obstructing Obama on various things. I think the fact that it was clear Biden didn't really want to just blame Republican Congress and only eventually said it after Trumo repetitively asked "Why didn't you do it already? Why couldn't you get this done or that done? " was helpful to it not just sounding like easy excuse making. It seemed he knew saying "but Republicans didn't do it" wasn't a good strategy (even though it can be frustrating to those who know it's an obvious answer to why certain things weren't done) and instead mostly focus on saying they did do this or start this or attempt this but we still need to do more.

Of course, as well as needing Congress (whether your own party or cooperation from the other side), there's also the point that major, long term, systemic issues can't just be fixed in a single presidency, even in 8 years. It's a shame that its probably a losing argument for a politician to try and make this point. Even the greatest leader in the world wouldn't be able to "fix racism" or "end poverty" in 8 years. I think Biden called out Trump for being even worse than most when it comes to promising quick fixes when talking about coronavirus, I feel that same thing ties into questions along the lines of "How can there still be anything to improve when you've been vice president before?"

The debate format and fewer interruptions was better. As the debate went on the whole mic muting thing mattered less though because both candidates spent so long in the "let me respond to that" phase after the questions where it wasn't anyone's turn, they probably should have cut them off to move on to the next question sometimes. But at least we got to hear the two minutes uninterrupted, and the back and forth sections were better structured than last time.

Nowhere in your post did you acknowledge that Obama had a Democratic Senate for 75% of his term.   Not saying that means Biden is culpable, but it's a fact that cannot be glossed over with debate gotchas and zingers.   

Question for you:   does it work the other way?  If these problems can't be FIXED in eight years, can they be caused in four?
I noticed the other day that Trump had made judicial appointments in vacancies held open since 2012/2013. So the GOP senate clearly had enough power to block his nominations for a full half of his term.

I was almost going to ask this in the Supreme Court thread, but for all the criticism of Harry Reid invoking the nuclear option in 2013, wasn't it only done because there was no other way around the amount of obstruction being provided by the Evil Turtle and his friends?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3477 on: October 23, 2020, 02:13:16 PM »
I was almost going to ask this in the Supreme Court thread, but for all the criticism of Harry Reid invoking the nuclear option in 2013, wasn't it only done because there was no other way around the amount of obstruction being provided by the Evil Turtle and his friends?
Correct. And even after the nuclear option there was such a backlog that they couldn't fill all of the appointments before the GOP took control of the senate and all nominations were DOA.

From the Statesman:
Quote
The trajectory of confirmations passed through three phases during the Obama years.

In the first four years, while Democrats retained control, Republicans used the Senate rules to slow down the process.

Sheldon Goldman, professor emeritus at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, said geography played a big role.

“A large number of vacancies were from states with two Republican senators or one Republican and one Democrat,” Goldman explained. “Until McConnell and the Republicans upended the practice of senatorial courtesy, both senators had to sign off on the recommended judicial nominees. Republican senators did their best to delay the process. As we now know, that tactic of obstruct and delay was successful.”

Not only could individual Republicans block nominees to courts in their states, there was always the threat of a filibuster.

That lasted until 2013, when Democratic Majority Leader Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., invoked what is called the “nuclear option.” For district and circuit court appointments, debate was limited to 30 hours and after that, a simple majority would carry the day.

The nuclear option opened up the second phase that lasted from 2013 to 2014, when nearly 90% of nominations sailed through. Even with that, Ostrander said there was only so much Democrats could do, because of the backlog created during the previous four years.

The final phase came when Republicans won the Senate. The period wasn’t totally devoid of confirmations.
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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3478 on: October 23, 2020, 02:41:41 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)
If Trump wins, people will complain about the electoral college.

If Trump loses, well, people will turn their attention towards what the Dems actually want, which could be swift institutional and radical change, including abolishing the electoral college, packing the courts, the Anti-Trump Inquisition, Medicare for All, free tuition, student loan debt forgiveness, high AF taxes to fund all these things.

But first, in either case I think people will be chiefly concerned with where COVID and the vaccine are at. If Trump produces the vaccine, I could see Trump approval increasing, whether he won or lost the election. How sad would it be if he lost, and then a week later the vaccine comes out, and everyone is like...Oh, sorry. But if COVID is still around and there hasn't been a vaccine yet, and Biden comes in with lockdown/regulation polices, I could see a lot of people getting upset about that.

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3479 on: October 23, 2020, 02:48:17 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)
If Trump wins, people will complain about the electoral college.

If Trump loses, well, people will turn their attention towards what the Dems actually want, which could be swift institutional and radical change, including abolishing the electoral college, packing the courts, the Anti-Trump Inquisition, Medicare for All, free tuition, student loan debt forgiveness, high AF taxes to fund all these things.

But first, in either case I think people will be chiefly concerned with where COVID and the vaccine are at. If Trump produces the vaccine, I could see Trump approval increasing, whether he won or lost the election. How sad would it be if he lost, and then a week later the vaccine comes out, and everyone is like...Oh, sorry. But if COVID is still around and there hasn't been a vaccine yet, and Biden comes in with lockdown/regulation polices, I could see a lot of people getting upset about that.

Your list of things the dems will do is just not true, even if a few of them do want that. It'd be like me saying that Trump winning means everything Ron Paul wanted would come true. The electoral college won't be abolished. Tuition won't be free. There won't be free healthcare for all. There will be no student loan forgiveness, other than what already exists. Etc. Sorry to burst your nightmare bubble. The country won't change a whole lot. It definitely won't become some evil communist hellscape.

And why would Trump be seen as responsible for a vaccine coming out? That's independent of him. He's not in a lab creating a vaccine. He has, as far as I know, no say in it what so ever. The most he'll do is take credit for it and announce it. That's it. I don't see how the presence or absence of a vaccine has ANY implication of Trump as a president. Though you're probably right that some of the ring wing people who are disgusted by him might be more into him if there is a vaccine, but I assume that's because a lot of people don't get that it would've happened with or without him.


And to answer Emtee's question....if Trump wins, people will be angry that the election was stolen from the dems. If Trump loses, his people will complain that the election was stolen by the dems.

For Stadler's sake, I hope Biden wins. Then he can show us, definitively, that we were not one president away from normal.
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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3480 on: October 23, 2020, 03:11:48 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)

The almost-civil war that will break out if Trump loses with a 52% / 48% outcome?

Or, if we're lucky, how we forgot what was it like having a US president that, regardless of content and policies implemented, talks and acts like a president and gives back some dignity, seriousness and integrity to the office of president of the world's superpower, something sorely needed even in normal times and especially during a global pandemic.
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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3481 on: October 23, 2020, 03:35:31 PM »
Your list of things the dems will do is just not true, even if a few of them do want that. It'd be like me saying that Trump winning means everything Ron Paul wanted would come true. The electoral college won't be abolished. Tuition won't be free. There won't be free healthcare for all. There will be no student loan forgiveness, other than what already exists. Etc. Sorry to burst your nightmare bubble. The country won't change a whole lot. It definitely won't become some evil communist hellscape.
The VP would be the most liberal senator, and Biden is on the way out. Also, I don't see Biden, while he is still with us, vetoing the stuff a Democratic Congress sends his way. A lot of the party leaders, such as Harris and AOC, do want those things. And I forgot to mention all the anti-free speech anti-freedom of religion stuff the Dems want. We are not far from a scenario where not letting your child be transgender is defined as child abuse and can result in you losing your kid. 


Quote
And why would Trump be seen as responsible for a vaccine coming out? That's independent of him. He's not in a lab creating a vaccine. He has, as far as I know, no say in it what so ever. The most he'll do is take credit for it and announce it. That's it. I don't see how the presence or absence of a vaccine has ANY implication of Trump as a president. Though you're probably right that some of the ring wing people who are disgusted by him might be more into him if there is a vaccine, but I assume that's because a lot of people don't get that it would've happened with or without him.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the govt funding these research companies? Isn't this part of the "Trump plan"? Why wouldn't Trump get any credit?

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3482 on: October 23, 2020, 03:45:26 PM »
We are not far from a scenario where not letting your child be transgender is defined as child abuse and can result in you losing your kid. 


Not letting your child be transgender? Who does that?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3483 on: October 23, 2020, 03:54:31 PM »
Brother H, I dunno man. I just think you're extremely off in your worldview. Your religious freedom is fine. It's not going to become some crazy liberal dictatorship just because AOC and the like have radical views. We need those radical views to keep us in check. Just like we need right wing radicals like the Paul family.

Also your transgender thing is just.....wrong....on so many levels. Do you understand what being transgender means?

But best of luck to you.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3484 on: October 23, 2020, 04:15:26 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)
If Trump wins, people will complain about the electoral college.

If Trump loses, well, people will turn their attention towards what the Dems actually want, which could be swift institutional and radical change, including abolishing the electoral college, packing the courts, the Anti-Trump Inquisition, Medicare for All, free tuition, student loan debt forgiveness, high AF taxes to fund all these things.

But first, in either case I think people will be chiefly concerned with where COVID and the vaccine are at. If Trump produces the vaccine, I could see Trump approval increasing, whether he won or lost the election. How sad would it be if he lost, and then a week later the vaccine comes out, and everyone is like...Oh, sorry. But if COVID is still around and there hasn't been a vaccine yet, and Biden comes in with lockdown/regulation polices, I could see a lot of people getting upset about that.

Respectfully, Trump COULD come out with a vaccine and the people that hate are still going to hate (and the people that love are going to love without the vaccine).   It's the nature of politics these days. It's PERSONAL, and the actual accomplishments don't seem to matter much.   


Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3485 on: October 23, 2020, 04:22:34 PM »
What are we going to talk about when the election is over :)
If Trump wins, people will complain about the electoral college.

If Trump loses, well, people will turn their attention towards what the Dems actually want, which could be swift institutional and radical change, including abolishing the electoral college, packing the courts, the Anti-Trump Inquisition, Medicare for All, free tuition, student loan debt forgiveness, high AF taxes to fund all these things.

But first, in either case I think people will be chiefly concerned with where COVID and the vaccine are at. If Trump produces the vaccine, I could see Trump approval increasing, whether he won or lost the election. How sad would it be if he lost, and then a week later the vaccine comes out, and everyone is like...Oh, sorry. But if COVID is still around and there hasn't been a vaccine yet, and Biden comes in with lockdown/regulation polices, I could see a lot of people getting upset about that.

Your list of things the dems will do is just not true, even if a few of them do want that. It'd be like me saying that Trump winning means everything Ron Paul wanted would come true. The electoral college won't be abolished. Tuition won't be free. There won't be free healthcare for all. There will be no student loan forgiveness, other than what already exists. Etc. Sorry to burst your nightmare bubble. The country won't change a whole lot. It definitely won't become some evil communist hellscape.

So then, simple question:  if that's the case - not saying you're wrong - why is the argument against Amy Coney Barrett almost entirely predicated on the ruin she will wreak if confirmed?   The Democrats on the Senate Judiciary Committee put up posters of the people that WILL BE "hurt" if she is confirmed.  Why do Democrats seem to get to fear-monger, but those of us that don't like most of those ideological programs are supposed to stay in our lane and be reasonable?   

The people that are largely being considered for positions in a Biden cabinet are, as I've shown, THE most liberal people in the party.  If Liz Warren is in the cabinet, student loan forgiveness and free tuition is ON the table.   

Quote
And to answer Emtee's question....if Trump wins, people will be angry that the election was stolen from the dems. If Trump loses, his people will complain that the election was stolen by the dems.

For Stadler's sake, I hope Biden wins. Then he can show us, definitively, that we were not one president away from normal.

I don't know how to take that.  I don't want to be right here at all.  I fear, more than ever, that I am, but it definitely is closer to a pyrrhic victory than anything else. I'm being dead serious when I say, I'm not sure I can afford a Biden presidency if it turns into a Democratic victory lap. 

Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3486 on: October 23, 2020, 04:25:14 PM »
Why do I have to answer for what democrats are doing? I'm not a democrat.

I can disagree with Brother H without having to defend what democrats do. They're unrelated. My concerns about Amy whatever were voiced earlier, and I think you even saw where I was coming from, if I remember correctly. They only have to do with how Trump picked her, not her views on things.


And as far as the second part goes, OBVIOUSLY things don't go back to normal with Biden. I was kidding since you have stated (and I'm estimating here) roughly 7,084,837,928.02 times that we're not one president away from normal. And even though everyone of us here has agreed with you, I think you deserve four good years of saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" for all the effort you put into it.  :-*
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3487 on: October 23, 2020, 04:28:19 PM »
Why do I have to answer for what democrats are doing? I'm not a democrat.

I can disagree with Brother H without having to defend what democrats do. They're unrelated. My concerns about Amy whatever were voice earlier, and I think you even saw where I was coming from, if I remember correctly.

Did I misunderstand?  You SAID what Democrats were (or were not) going to do. I'm not asking you to defend what Democrats are doing.  I'm asking why you think H is wrong for assuming Democrats were going to play to extremes, when it's actually par for the course in political analysis.

Quote
And as far as the second part goes, OBVIOUSLY things don't go back to normal with Biden. I was kidding since you have stated (and I'm estimating here) roughly 7,084,837,928.02 times that we're not one president away from normal. And even though everyone of us here has agreed with you, I think you deserve four good years of saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" for all the effort you put into it.  :-*

I estimate I can say "I TOLD YOU SO" easily 7,084,837,928.03 times in four years and if I can't I'll at least give it the ol' college try.

Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3488 on: October 23, 2020, 04:32:27 PM »
Why do I have to answer for what democrats are doing? I'm not a democrat.

I can disagree with Brother H without having to defend what democrats do. They're unrelated. My concerns about Amy whatever were voice earlier, and I think you even saw where I was coming from, if I remember correctly.

Did I misunderstand?  You SAID what Democrats were (or were not) going to do. I'm not asking you to defend what Democrats are doing.  I'm asking why you think H is wrong for assuming Democrats were going to play to extremes, when it's actually par for the course in political analysis.

Quote
And as far as the second part goes, OBVIOUSLY things don't go back to normal with Biden. I was kidding since you have stated (and I'm estimating here) roughly 7,084,837,928.02 times that we're not one president away from normal. And even though everyone of us here has agreed with you, I think you deserve four good years of saying "I TOLD YOU SO!" for all the effort you put into it.  :-*

I estimate I can say "I TOLD YOU SO" easily 7,084,837,928.03 times in four years and if I can't I'll at least give it the ol' college try.

Ohhhh I gotcha. That was my bad. But to answer that, each side is supposed to keep the other side in check, but that doesn't mean they'll go full opposite when given the chance. For the exact same reasons I don't think Roe V Wade will be overturned, I don't think the dems will do the things Brother H is scared they will. For the same reason Ron Paul, if ever elected back in the day, wouldn't have done 90% of what he promised....or Bernie Sanders for the other side of the coin. It's easy to say WE WANT THIS but then the system, which you have so much faith in, does not allow that kind of stuff. The dems also aren't saying they will abolish the electoral college or make religion illegal or whatever Brother H is worried they'll do. If a few of them have brought up the ideas, then I'd say it's irrelevant. Each side brings up extreme ideas on occasion but rarely does anything come of it.

So, in short, I have enough faith in your system that the dems won't do those things. Or, in worst case, not be able to.
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Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3489 on: October 23, 2020, 04:35:41 PM »
You know who REALLY loses if Biden wins?

Late night show writers. They've had four years of being able to do the minimum amount of effort in their joke writing with Trump. If Biden wins, they'll actually have to start coming up with jokes again. Poor bastards.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3490 on: October 23, 2020, 05:21:15 PM »
The other thing to keep in mind is that while the Dems are favored to win back control of the Senate (assuming a Biden presidency where 50 seats would be enough with Kamala Harris as a tiebreaker, they're roughly 75% to take it per 538), the median outcome has them with only 51 or 52 seats. Joe Manchin for one and probably a few other moderates in states that are not typically as Democrat-friendly will not get onboard with anything coming from the far left wing of the party. Democrats will have to overperform in their Senate races to have the kind of majority where they can afford a few defectors.
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Offline H2

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3491 on: October 23, 2020, 08:51:49 PM »
Brother H, I dunno man. I just think you're extremely off in your worldview. Your religious freedom is fine. It's not going to become some crazy liberal dictatorship just because AOC and the like have radical views. We need those radical views to keep us in check. Just like we need right wing radicals like the Paul family.

Also your transgender thing is just.....wrong....on so many levels. Do you understand what being transgender means?

But best of luck to you.
Oh hey, Adami. I'm kinda surprised you remember me! I've been part of this community in various guises, and well, I sure do appreciate it! I of course have nice memories of you and see you've been "promoted", so I hope all's well.

I agree that using the mere existence of radical views as an argument to not give an inch to the other side is a pitfall. After all, there are radical views on both sides. But as Stadler says, I think there is a significant probability that the party which very nearly put Sanders on the ballot, and which has Harris as the running mate,  and a rising coalition of pretty left superstars, will get power and change will happen very fast. I think the country could look very different after a Biden presidency.

I read what I said about transgender children. I don't think I said anything wrong or am ignorant of what transgenderism is. This is where (roughly) an individual identifies with a gender that is not traditionally associated with their sex, right?

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3492 on: October 23, 2020, 09:56:01 PM »
Biden/Harris is the most centrist ticket you could ever come up with,  that the right manages to make some people believe they are Fidel Castro or something is quite an accomplishment.  Kamala Harris is no radical, the left doesn’t like her any more than Biden, they see her as a cop and that’s no bueno in those circles.   

Online jingle.boy

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3493 on: October 23, 2020, 10:19:57 PM »
For all the fear of Harris, has Pence done anything catastrophic in the last 4 years?  I get there's a legit concern about Biden possibly not making it to the end of his first term (I have those concerns), but otherwise, what really is with all the fear surrounding her.  I mean, it's not like the VP/POTUS relationship is like ...

Looking at my most recent posts, it almost seems like I'm trying to become the Common Sense of DTF :lol
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Offline emtee

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3494 on: October 24, 2020, 06:24:12 AM »
The difference is that Biden, in my view, is in a mental and physical decline - - which is completely normal for someone his age - - and Harris has at least a 50% chance of taking over before Joe's term ends. I think It's going to be unpleasant, from a humanitarian standpoint, watching his descent as the months pass. In the same way it would if he were our parent or grandparent.

Regardless of the checks and balances, a Harris presidency with majorities in both houses will result in the pendulum swinging deeper to the left. However, the pendulum always swings back the other way.

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3495 on: October 24, 2020, 07:41:13 AM »
The difference is that Biden, in my view, is in a mental and physical decline - - which is completely normal for someone his age - - and Harris has at least a 50% chance of taking over before Joe's term ends. I think It's going to be unpleasant, from a humanitarian standpoint, watching his descent as the months pass. In the same way it would if he were our parent or grandparent.

Regardless of the checks and balances, a Harris presidency with majorities in both houses will result in the pendulum swinging deeper to the left. However, the pendulum always swings back the other way.

I’ll leave it to Stadler to address  the issue of intent, and determining outcomes and actions based on merely on statements - actual or implied. He’s better at it than me.
Looking at my most recent posts, it almost seems like I'm trying to become the Common Sense of DTF :lol
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Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3496 on: October 24, 2020, 08:08:47 AM »
Currently in line to vote.

I may die here. This line is insane.
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Online jingle.boy

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3497 on: October 24, 2020, 08:29:59 AM »
Currently in line to vote.

I may die here. This line is insane.

Long?  What kind of insane are you talking?
Looking at my most recent posts, it almost seems like I'm trying to become the Common Sense of DTF :lol
You'd have an easier time trying to bring the internet to the Amish.
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Online jingle.boy

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3498 on: October 24, 2020, 08:33:42 AM »
https://twitter.com/i/status/1319762010968502272

“We’re not gonna have a Socialist President, ESPECIALLY, a female Socialist President. We’re not gonna put up with it”

And now #EspeciallyFemale is trending.
Looking at my most recent posts, it almost seems like I'm trying to become the Common Sense of DTF :lol
You'd have an easier time trying to bring the internet to the Amish.
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Online Adami

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Re: The 2020 Election Thread
« Reply #3499 on: October 24, 2020, 08:34:42 AM »
Currently in line to vote.

I may die here. This line is insane.

Long?  What kind of insane are you talking?

Long. 30 min standing here and I haven’t moved an inch. And much like Stadler around Margot Robbie, it keeps growing.
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