Poll

How do you exactly like / dislike the song?

I like the song as a whole
91 (60.3%)
I dislike the song as a whole
16 (10.6%)
I like the main part. I dislike the solo section. I like the outro
24 (15.9%)
I dislike the main part. I like the solo section AND the outro
9 (6%)
I like the main part. I dislike the solo section AND the outro
2 (1.3%)
I dislike the main part. I like the solo section. I dislike the outro
7 (4.6%)
I only like the outro, I dislike the rest
2 (1.3%)

Total Members Voted: 151

Author Topic: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey  (Read 1853 times)

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Offline EPIC Outro

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #35 on: December 25, 2018, 07:34:15 AM »

The Ministry of Lost Souls is a beautiful song and one of my favorites. When I first heard it I didn't care for the instrumental section and even edited my own version without it.

But that was then. With time I have come to appreciate the whole song.

Offline ToT-147

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2018, 05:45:19 PM »
try to play As I Am and have the ending of the song going directly into this

It sounds great indeed!..

I really like the solo section, one of my favorites.  I do agree that it doesn't seem to fit, but I find that to be the case with alot of their music.  It's one of the primary reasons I like DT.  Their songs aren't boring because of this.  Once you get to know these type of songs they blend a bit better. I actually think now that the transition is just fine.

The outro blends so well into ITPoE.  If I'm just listening to TMotLS I have a hard time NOT letting it go to the next track.

If the rest of the song was a track on it's own, then I wouldn't like it much.  But that's not the point.  It is part of the song!  I can actually get through the song up to the solo section because I know it's coming.  I can think of quite a few songs (not just DT) that I like simply because of a section of it.  There is something to be said for letting the song build and set a mood.  Some of the hardest sections of music are preceded by slow passages and that gives the heavy part more impact.

100% agreed with this, especially the bolded..

Literally, the instrumental section feels so disconnected to the rest of the song, if you showed it to someone who hasn't heard the song, there's no way that person would've known it was actually a balladesque song in disguise.

I think that's kind of the whole point of doing it, don't you think?.. They're expert musicians, is not that they didn't know how to put that section in one song and randomly put it in there just for the sake of it.. As you mentioned, maybe they did it because there already was a long ballad in the album, and didn't wanted to do another one (even when they have very different structures and a very different vibe as well)..

But, as I've said many times, having that type of element within a song where the instrumental section seems to come from nowhere or at least it's very unexpected (thus why it feels like is from another song, which logically speaking makes no sense) is something DT did in other songs too.. Beyond this Life has it, Endless Sacrifice has it and Sacrificed Sons has it.. And, IMO, these four songs as a whole (and particularly the break-moments) are awesome just like they are, and mostly because they are like that..

Thing is none of these instrumental sections you named feel so disconnected to the song as TMOLS, you could have as well named BAI and Metropolis and that's clearly not the case.

Actually, no.. BAI and Met pt. 1 are very different in that aspect, but I get that this kind of things are mainly subjetive (we're talking about how a song feels after all)..

But yeah, I don't think any of these songs has their sections "disconnected".. They are all very well connected actually..

Example of sections in a song that I feel disconected?: BMUBMD's unison, beginning of Bridges in the Sky, and a few on Illumination Theory (especially the transition into the orchestral part).. A thing that I guess was due to the lack of Portnoy, but they did have take care of this minimal issue in TA, and rest of the songs in ADToE and DT12..

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Offline EPIC Outro

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2018, 06:28:05 PM »

Interesting to see just how subjective this all is... To me, the unison section of BMUBMD sounds completely natural. I couldn't imagine the song without it.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #38 on: December 25, 2018, 06:39:56 PM »
Overall, I like the song. Not one of their best, but pretty good.

Offline GasparXR

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #39 on: December 27, 2018, 02:48:04 PM »
I voted for liking most of the song except the solo section, although I wouldn't say I quite dislike it. I think it could have been trimmed or made differently to fit the song better, to make it feel more unified.

Offline Devin Townsend

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #40 on: December 28, 2018, 01:53:47 PM »
Even though it's not a popular opinion, to me, Ministry Of Lost Souls feels like a ballad like Wither (but stylistically more like the "Someone Like Him" section of Octavarium) misplaced with an instrumental section that sounds like leftover riffs (and probably is) from In The Presence Of Enemies (part 2 specifically).
It feels like they give the AFGE progression far too much attention but I don't understand why. It probably felt "epic" to them at the time but just doesn't have the compositional strength to hold up 6 minutes of music, let alone 15  :lol

Offline Tick

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #41 on: December 29, 2018, 10:25:36 AM »
I needed an "I love the song" option!
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Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #42 on: December 29, 2018, 12:54:44 PM »
Hated the song the first time I listened to it. Didn't listen to it for a long time after that. Then one day, I gave SC a spin from beginning to end and it came on. I actually liked it a lot better this time. Still not a favorite, but it has definitely grown on me. Solo section is superb.

Offline ToT-147

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #43 on: December 30, 2018, 11:57:08 AM »
Even though it's not a popular opinion, to me, Ministry Of Lost Souls feels like a ballad like Wither misplaced with an instrumental section that sounds like leftover riffs

Unfortunately, that's a very popular opinion actually..

Hated the song the first time I listened to it.

How do you get to "hate" a song?.. :huh:
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Offline Ninjabait

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #44 on: December 30, 2018, 06:22:40 PM »
I really like the main section, and the outro's fine. The middle section just doesn't gel with the rest of the song imo. It's super jarring and not in a good Opethian way.

Now, the Symphonic Theater of Dreams version of it on the other hand, is like Top Tier Dream Theater. It makes the middle section work really well and turns it into one of the coolest moments in any DT song imo. Only downside is that the gorgeous lyrics get dropped from it. It convinced me that the song doesn't truly shine in the metal genre, and that it works best in an orchestral setting.

Offline Adami

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2018, 06:52:50 PM »

How do you get to "hate" a song?.. :huh:

How do you get to love a song?
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Offline Shooters1221

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #46 on: December 30, 2018, 09:27:57 PM »

How do you get to "hate" a song?.. :huh:

How do you get to love a song?

Kind of agree here..I hate a lot of songs...I love a lot of songs, although I don’t hate any DT, just don’t understand the question.  ???

To the OP...I truly like this from start to finish. To me, prog is prog and the artists truly wrote it the way they saw fit as I can relate to. It’s definitely not one of my “go to” pieces, but would not skip it either. JMO.

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #47 on: December 31, 2018, 05:18:23 PM »

How do you get to "hate" a song?.. :huh:

How do you get to love a song?

Kind of agree here..I hate a lot of songs...I love a lot of songs, although I don’t hate any DT, just don’t understand the question.  ???

To the OP...I truly like this from start to finish. To me, prog is prog and the artists truly wrote it the way they saw fit as I can relate to. It’s definitely not one of my “go to” pieces, but would not skip it either. JMO.
That's fair, I guess I misspoke when I said I hated it. I just disliked it to the point where I didn't have any desire to listen to it again.

Offline ToT-147

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #48 on: January 04, 2019, 01:36:45 PM »

How do you get to "hate" a song?.. :huh:

How do you get to love a song?

I like it so much that I love it.. (also, please read below)

That's fair, I guess I misspoke when I said I hated it. I just disliked it to the point where I didn't have any desire to listen to it again.

Exactly.. That's my point.. When you dislike that much a certain song (with DT no one should really say that before at least 4 or 5 listens, IMO)... then why keep listening to it?..

You only could hate something if that something is present in your live on the first place.. In this case, if you listen to that song.. And while maybe that could be the case with pop songs that you just cannot avoid listening here and there, that's certainly not the case with a DT song, or a prog metal song in general... well, not even is that the case with any metal song..

On the other hand, if you like it so much, then you'll keep listening to it, and that's when you start to love it..
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2019, 05:31:27 AM »
I think in music using "love" and "hate" has just become common terms to express appreciation or dislike. No one really means "hate" in the musical equivalent of what you feel for the one that with a hit and run killed a family member or for Bin Laden.

But yeah, some overplayed pop songs can be definitively very annoying  :lol
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2019, 05:34:57 AM »
You forgot the "I like the main part, I like the solo, I dislike the outro" option :hat

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2019, 06:47:17 AM »
It kind of hits you right over the head the second Prophets of war ends. I always thought that was kind of cool.

Of course it's cool! as I said try to have As I Am right before this song, see how cool it plays out  :coolio

That's how the band did it when I saw them in DC in '08.  I made up a CDr of the set list from that night.  And, indeed, the segue is perfect.

 
My only gripe is how it starts with an volume-to-11 ear smash.  I really don't like any songs that start this way but this one hits way harder for some reason.

My own edit has the first 1:02 removed completely so it starts gently and then builds up.

I've always liked the intro, but I tried it this way after your post, and....I gotta admit, I like it.
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2019, 04:35:51 PM »
No one really means "hate" in the musical equivalent of what you feel for the one that with a hit and run killed a family member or for Bin Laden.

Of course not (though I wouldn't say "no one" either)..

By definition, you can hate something or someone.. So, since we're talking about something here (a song), is absolutely possible that you could feel hatred for it.. But I just find that to be absurd for the reasons I mentioned above..
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Online Zook

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2019, 04:46:56 PM »
I dislike the main part. I like the solo section. I dislike the outro.

Offline Mondo Man

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2019, 10:02:35 PM »
For all I know, this guy could be one of the members here.  If you can make it past some of the antics, this guy tries to break down the outro section by science. 



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Offline geeeemo

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2019, 10:55:00 AM »
I just listened to it. I haven't listened to this one a ton so... I like the song. It isn't in my top 20.  I appreciate the length, the instrumental. It is very DT. All the things I love about DT and took a bit to get used to. Doing their own thing, being unpredictable and JLB's voice.  I love the epics and this is long like one, but doesn't feel like one to me.

Offline Iceyice

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2019, 08:03:50 PM »
This is definitely one of the songs that i've skipped over, over the years. In fact, it's not even in my fone music player.
I may have to give this one another try. It's been a LOOOONG time since i heard this.
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Offline LCArenas

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Re: The Ministry of the Lost Souls - an in depth survey
« Reply #57 on: January 08, 2019, 07:57:09 PM »
My favorite song of SC as of right now, so yeah, love all of it.