My ranking of the Dream Theater albums

[MHStrawn]

Everything after 6DOIT is "For collectors"?   That seems a bit harsh, even for a non-fan.  Even if it's not your favorite, just the title track makes Octavarium more than just "for collectors".

I find it odd that 74/100 only qualifies as "meh - for collectors."  Even more odd is that albums scoring 65, 75, 85 and 95 would fall, simultaneously, into two different categories.  In other words, an album scoring a 75 is both "meh - for collectors" AND "good - worth having."  Awake is, at the same time, both "good - worth having" and "very good - must have for DT fan."

FII and SDOIT are only 1-2 points into the "good - worth having" range.  Otherwise, MHStrawn seems to think only three albums (plus side 1 of ACOS) are worth much of anything.

You:  So, what do you think of the new (name your band) album? 

Me:  It's good!  Definitely worth having! 

You:  Oh, so you don't think it's worth much of anything. 

 Me:  Um....that's pretty much the opposite of what I said but....if that's what you take from it. 

[Stadler]

Everything after 6DOIT is "For collectors"?   That seems a bit harsh, even for a non-fan.  Even if it's not your favorite, just the title track makes Octavarium more than just "for collectors".

I find it odd that 74/100 only qualifies as "meh - for collectors."  Even more odd is that albums scoring 65, 75, 85 and 95 would fall, simultaneously, into two different categories.  In other words, an album scoring a 75 is both "meh - for collectors" AND "good - worth having."  Awake is, at the same time, both "good - worth having" and "very good - must have for DT fan."

FII and SDOIT are only 1-2 points into the "good - worth having" range.  Otherwise, MHStrawn seems to think only three albums (plus side 1 of ACOS) are worth much of anything.

You:  So, what do you think of the new (name your band) album? 

Me:  It's good!  Definitely worth having! 

You:  Oh, so you don't think it's worth much of anything. 

 Me:  Um....that's pretty much the opposite of what I said but....if that's what you take from it.

I'm not sure snark is warranted; you've got two pretty smart people (well, one and me) and we had questions.   You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but rest easy, if it was that clear one of us would have figured it out on our own.   

[Wim Kruithof]

With Dream Theater is it so hard to rank albums, because... the ones I do not enjoy that much, are obviously ones that I don't listen to enough. Listening carefully is the perfect cure to raise the value of an album. Having said, if I had to rank them now, I'll throw them in some groups, to follow a perfect example from the first page.

Good: Falling into Infinity / Systematic Chaos / The Astonishing / Distance over Time
Great: When Dream and Day Unite / Images & Words / Awake / Scenes from a Memory / Octavarium
Brilliant: Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence / a Dramatic Turn of Events / Dream Theater
Perfect: Train of Thought & Black Clouds & Silver Linings

The EP Change of Seasons would be 'good', the song thought, is perfect. If I had to rank live albums, it would be like this...

Good: Live at the Marquee / Once in a Livetime
Great: Live Scenes from New York / Score / Chaos in Motion / Distant Memories
Brilliant: Live in Budokan / Breaking the Fourth Wall
Perfect: Live in Luna Park

[pg1067]

Perfect: . . . Black Clouds & Silver Linings

There's two things that have rarely, if ever, been put together.

[jammindude]

Perfect: . . . Black Clouds & Silver Linings

There's two things that have rarely, if ever, been put together.

Ya, that got a major Spock eyebrow from me as well.

[kirksnosehair]

Everything after 6DOIT is "For collectors"?   That seems a bit harsh, even for a non-fan.  Even if it's not your favorite, just the title track makes Octavarium more than just "for collectors".

I find it odd that 74/100 only qualifies as "meh - for collectors."  Even more odd is that albums scoring 65, 75, 85 and 95 would fall, simultaneously, into two different categories.  In other words, an album scoring a 75 is both "meh - for collectors" AND "good - worth having."  Awake is, at the same time, both "good - worth having" and "very good - must have for DT fan."

FII and SDOIT are only 1-2 points into the "good - worth having" range.  Otherwise, MHStrawn seems to think only three albums (plus side 1 of ACOS) are worth much of anything.

You:  So, what do you think of the new (name your band) album? 

Me:  It's good!  Definitely worth having! 

You:  Oh, so you don't think it's worth much of anything. 

 Me:  Um....that's pretty much the opposite of what I said but....if that's what you take from it.

Actually it's more like:


Forum: Rank The Dream Theater Albums


You: 6+7x(24 x 8)-(24x7)=7/8∞450 > 11 = Good  --but-- 6+7x(24 x 8)-(24x7)=7/8∞450 > 11 = Meh


Forum: wut?

[Volante99]

Everything after 6DOIT is "For collectors"?   That seems a bit harsh, even for a non-fan.  Even if it's not your favorite, just the title track makes Octavarium more than just "for collectors".

Not totally on topic here, but for the most part, for newbs to this kind of music I only recommend I&W and Scenes- at that point you’re either a fan or not. If someone actually likes those albums I would recommend they check out the entire discography, because it’s all worth a listen. If they aren’t digging it, then it’s unlikely any of the other albums will convert them.

[jammindude]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

[Wim Kruithof]

There's two things that have rarely, if ever, been put together.

I know they're not much out there who feel the same. But to me a Nightmare is a absolute masterpeace. A Rite of Passage and Wither are great songs, but especially the Shattered Fortress brings a perfect closure to the Twelve Step Suite. And than, the Count of Tuscany will forever be in my top 3 Dream Theater songs. So therefore, this album is truly special for me. Only Best of Times I do not like that much, althought that fact that Portnoy played it for his daddy close before he died, is very nice and emotional.

[KevShmev]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

[pg1067]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

I like TALW, but I think IWBY is probably a bottom 10 DT song, so I agree with that and would also add Never Enough (if for no other reason than it would necessitate talking about all of the history behind the crybaby lyrics).

[darkshade]

There's two things that have rarely, if ever, been put together.

I know they're not much out there who feel the same. But to me a Nightmare is a absolute masterpeace. A Rite of Passage and Wither are great songs, but especially the Shattered Fortress brings a perfect closure to the Twelve Step Suite. And than, the Count of Tuscany will forever be in my top 3 Dream Theater songs. So therefore, this album is truly special for me. Only Best of Times I do not like that much, althought that fact that Portnoy played it for his daddy close before he died, is very nice and emotional.

I'm with you. I actually think TBOT is great, and I actually find BC&SL to be a flawed masterpiece, and like a bad movie that's so bad it's good, I like BC&SL for its flaws and for its greatness, whereas I really do not like the flaws of Mangini-era albums. My main issue with BC&SL is it's the hardest album to hear the bass, and many of the vocal melodies run parallel to what the other instruments are playing, instead of being independent of what everyone else is playing. This album is the last classic JLB album, as after this his vocals have become drenched in effects on the studio albums.

[KevShmev]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

I like TALW, but I think IWBY is probably a bottom 10 DT song, so I agree with that and would also add Never Enough (if for no other reason than it would necessitate talking about all of the history behind the crybaby lyrics).

I don't have the energy to litigate the validity of the lyrics in Never Enough again , but I will just say that a first time listener likely wouldn't figure out immediately what the song is about, unless they somehow knew the backstory beforehand.

[TAC]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the lyrics to Never Enough.

[jammindude]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

I think they are important. Not only to the album, but as a part of what Dream Theater IS.

One of the first things that completely hooked me about this band was the 1-2 “punch” of Pull Me Under to Another Day.  If you are going to like this band, you need to know right out of the gate that you are going to get “Metallica” one minute, and “Kenny G” the next.

Going from TROAE, to TALW, to TW, to IWBY is a perfect cross section of all the different sounds that DT is capable of manifesting.

EDIT - in fact, I challenge you to name a DT album with more variety in the first four songs than the one I just mentioned. IAW comes close but still isn’t quite as varied as the first 4 from 8V

[emtee]

For me, even though I love 8V,  they not only overutilized inspiration corner, they actually tried to mimick other bands. Even in the way James was asked to sing.  Mike was mesmerized by Muse back then.

[KevShmev]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

I think they are important. Not only to the album, but as a part of what Dream Theater IS.

One of the first things that completely hooked me about this band was the 1-2 “punch” of Pull Me Under to Another Day.  If you are going to like this band, you need to know right out of the gate that you are going to get “Metallica” one minute, and “Kenny G” the next.

Going from TROAE, to TALW, to TW, to IWBY is a perfect cross section of all the different sounds that DT is capable of manifesting.

EDIT - in fact, I challenge you to name a DT album with more variety in the first four songs than the one I just mentioned. IAW comes close but still isn’t quite as varied as the first 4 from 8V

I am not challenging the variety, but variety for variety's sake when the songwriting isn't very good is not necessarily a good thing.  Pull Me Under and Another Day work as a great 1-2 punch as a starter because both songs are awesome (and the fanbase by and large agrees).  The "Kenny G" song on 8V, The Answer Lies Within, is not highly regarded by the fanbase (by and large).  I totally get the logic of giving a new potential fan an album with lots of variety, but I think high quality is needed as well, and, IMO, you don't get that on a consistent level at the start of 8V.

[Dream Team]

For me, even though I love 8V,  they not only overutilized inspiration corner, they actually tried to mimick other bands. Even in the way James was asked to sing.  Mike was mesmerized by Muse back then.

Very true. Actually I think the first 4 songs from ADTOE has amazing variety. That would be my #1 pick on that topic.

[Wim Kruithof]

EDIT - in fact, I challenge you to name a DT album with more variety in the first four songs than the one I just mentioned. IAW comes close but still isn’t quite as varied as the first 4 from 8V

I don't know if it's actually more variety, but Six Degrees, with Glass Prison / Blind Faith / Misunderstood and the Great Debate - to me - is splended variety as well. Every aspect of the band is involved in these four songs.

[Enigmachine]

As much as I like Octavarium, the variation on that album comes off to me as more imitation than integration, in regards to how it connects to the band's wider sound. If I was trying to recommend Dream Theater to someone, I wouldn't go with a song like Never Enough because that wouldn't really show if they like Dream Theater, it'd probably show if they like Muse instead. It's like their Hail to the King in that sense. I think albums like ADToE and SDoIT strike closer to the band's signature identity as a band, while still remaining broad.

[pg1067]

I’ve been a fan since IAW was first released, and I think 8V is their masterpiece. I always refer newbs to that album specifically. It is the perfect cross-section of every facet of the band’s sound.

I agree with you that Octavarium has a lot of variety, but if I can push back just a bit , even though I like (not love) both songs, I don't think I would want The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You to be two of the first four songs a potential new fan hears by Dream Theater, which is why 8V is not an album I'd recommend as a starter, but that's me.  First impressions are always important, IMO.

I like TALW, but I think IWBY is probably a bottom 10 DT song, so I agree with that and would also add Never Enough (if for no other reason than it would necessitate talking about all of the history behind the crybaby lyrics).

I don't have the energy to litigate the validity of the lyrics in Never Enough again , but I will just say that a first time listener likely wouldn't figure out immediately what the song is about, unless they somehow knew the backstory beforehand.

I'm not suggesting the feelings that led to the lyrics weren't valid.  The verses display all the maturity of a teenage YouTuber, and that's apparent whether or not one knows the back story.

[DTwwbwMP]

Scenes from a Memory A++
Images and Words A+-
Awake A+
Train of Thought A
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence A-
Octavarium B++
Falling into Infinity B+
A Dramatic Turn of Events B
Systematic Chaos B-
Black Clouds and Silver Linings B--
When Dream and Day Unite C
Dream Theater C-
Distance over Time C--
The Astonishing F-----------------------------------

[TAC]

Welcome to DTF DTwwbwMP!

[DTwwbwMP]

Been away a long while

[TAC]

Were you someone else before?

[DTwwbwMP]

hmmmm....perhaps

[Kotowboy]

Great :

1. Octavarium
2. Scenes From A Memory
3. Six Degrees
4. Distance Over Time
5. Train Of Thought

Good :

6. The Astonishing
7. Dream Theater
8. A Dramatic Turn of Events
9. Falling Into Infinity
10. Images And Words

Not my favourites :

11. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
12. Awake
13. Systematic Chaos
14. When Dream & Day Unite


The 'Epics'

1. Octavarium
2. Six Degrees
3. The Count Of Tuscany
4. Illumination Theory
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. A Change OF Seasons

[DTwwbwMP]

Great:
1. Scenes From A Memory
2. Images & Words
3. Awake
4. Train Of Thought
5. Six Degrees

VERY Good:
6. Octavarium
7. Falling Into Infinity
8. A Dramatic Turn of Events

Good:
9. Systematic Chaos
10. Black Clouds and Silver Linings

Average:
11. When Dream and Day Unite
12. Dream Theater
13. Distance over Time

DO NOT LIKE AT ALL (other than 3 songs - TGOM, ANB & ONW)
14. The "un" Astonishing

The 'Epics'
GREAT:
1. A Change OF Seasons
2. Octavarium
3. Six Degrees

VERY GOOD
4. The Count Of Tuscany
5. In The Presence Of Enemies
6. Illumination Theory

[KevShmev]

Were you someone else before?

He was Nicholas.

[DTwwbwMP]

Were you someone else before?

He was Nicholas.

....or maybe Victoria

[BlacklistJones]

Scenes From a Memory
Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Awake
Images and Words
A Dramatic Turn of Events
Falling Into Infinity
DT12
Octavarium
Distance Over Time
A Change of Seasons
Train of Thought
Systematic Chaos
Black Clouds and Silver Linings
The Astonishing

[jayvee3]

Slightly off topic, but went for a run yesterday, and just shuffled my DT library. A bunch of songs came up in random order from "The Astonishing", and I thoroughly enjoyed them. All good if some don't connect with it, but for me, that album really has some great music on, with some real gems.

[jayvee3]

There's two things that have rarely, if ever, been put together.

I know they're not much out there who feel the same. But to me a Nightmare is a absolute masterpeace. A Rite of Passage and Wither are great songs, but especially the Shattered Fortress brings a perfect closure to the Twelve Step Suite. And than, the Count of Tuscany will forever be in my top 3 Dream Theater songs. So therefore, this album is truly special for me. Only Best of Times I do not like that much, althought that fact that Portnoy played it for his daddy close before he died, is very nice and emotional.

This is what I love about the band. Black Clouds is at the bottom of the rankings for me: I find Nightmare a hot mess other than the beautiful agony section, A Rite of Passage and Wither are real bottom tier "mailing it in" tracks for me, Shattered fortress is not bad if a bit unnecessarily bloated and long, Best of times I never revisit and just does zero for me other than the Rush-inspired solo intro and I have always loved the Count. I dont write this to be argumentative or negative, just to point out that what doesn't work for me, someone else sees beauty in and there are so many stories like that from so many DT albums. It's terrific we can all get some joy out of the band in so many different ways and through different songs/albums 

[Wim Kruithof]

jayvee3, couldn’t agree more. There’s so much out there to (re)discover. To me, I’m currently more into the lyrics and that brings a whole new level of beauty in some tracks. For example the Ministry of Lost Souls, beautiful writings in there.

The more I find out and discover, the more my respect and love for the band have grown.