Distance over Time - New Single "Untethered Angel"

[Darkstarshades]

The entire album is melodically and harmonically complex, and The Gift of Music is also the most rythmically complex single perhaps in the history of forever.

It's a true prog album, despite most people being drawn back by some stuff there.
Personally, when comparing how I felt when I first heard The Gift of Music, as well as for the song itself, with Untethered Angel, The Gift of Music felt incredibly fresh, proggy, melodic as fuck and a lot of great things, this one felt underwhelming to say the least, I don't know if anyone shares this thought.

[Groundhog]

All I want from DT drums is cool, creative rhythms like MP composed on the first 6 albums. Don’t need machine-gun fills or polymeters in 17/16 and 23/8. Oh and it’s nice if you can hear the drums clearly as well.

I also want a good mix. A recent example would be Soen. Their single Martyrs is a great example.

Never listened to Soen before. Just took a listen to Martyrs and Rival. Great stuff! I agree about the mix on this. Surprisingly balanced and good clarity for such a loud master. This is a good comparison for Untethered Angel as this is has similar dynamic range (DR7). Just read a review for Soen Lotus and vinyl is supposed to have better mastering with DR12. I am definately getting this on vinyl. Thanks for mentioning this.

[gzarruk]

I think Mangini's drumming fits DT perfectly, and I don't think any of the other drummers at the audition would've been a better fit for the band. We just shouldn't expect him to approach his drum parts as Portnoy would, simply because he isn't Portnoy. Also, if MP never left, we would probably be complaining about how he's been using the same fills and tricks on every album since the 90s (we do, but not talking about DT records, just MP records in general) and how we'd like to hear something different instead.

BTW, DT12 is, to me, the ultimate Mangini drumming album so far, it just has everything you'd expect from his drumming (ITGD is a very good option too). Let's see if DOT is able to top it (keep in mind I'm just talking about the drumming and not the songs).

[lucasembarbosa]

BTW, DT12 is, to me, the ultimate Mangini drumming album so far, it just has everything you'd expect from his drumming (ITGD is a very good option too). Let's see if DOT is able to top it (keep in mind I'm just talking about the drumming and not the songs).

I think exactly the same, hoping for DOT to be the 'unleashed MM' album!

[ErHaO]

I really don't understand the argument that everything post Portnoy is similar. and becoming generic.  ADTOE, DT12 and TA couldn't be more different albums. The sound, the mix, the song structure, the riff styles - everything is very different. I don't think there's a single album in DTs catalogue where I'd go "man, this is just a rehash of that album". Look at The Astonishing. It's full of chord changes and melodies that are very unique to DT - they'd never done it before. JP has even said he was very challenged by the album due to the complex chords that were so different from what he was used to.

I agree. Most modern DT song have certain signature elements that have been well established at this point, which applies to most artists this long in the game. Often, and as is the case with DT, those very elements are what define them and please the people listening to them. But regardless of that, their last three albums are different in many aspects. And the Astonishing in particular, that album is very unique in their discography for many (musical) reasons.

Anyways, I look forward to hearing the rest of the album, the single is a good start for me. But then again, I like all "modern" DT albums.

[erwinrafael]

I also disagree that he's always played that way. Listen to his drumming on "No Respect" and "Leave Me Alone" by Extreme, I really like his drumming in those days.

Groove and swing to his playing.

Because the music that he is locking on to has that groove and swing which is entirely different from DT'S music. You want MM's playing to go back to that style, you have to ask DT to play like Extreme.

[erwinrafael]

Also listened to that 3:25-3:35 part.

Yes, that could have been programmed to the point where the difference is only noticeable to people studying the parts. Easily. That's a key indicator of an issue though. You're (Erwin) analyzing which drum he's hitting at which time. Most people just notice that he's playing the guitar part on the snare(s).

He's playing the guitar part on the snare while the bass and the snare is continuing to play the 1-3 metronome. Yes, that could have been programmed? You would think of composing drums like that? Really?

[Adami]

Yes.

But you're missing the point. We're not saying every single beat/fill can be EASILY programmed by anyone. We're saying his general style sounds like someone programmed it because it's such a predictable approach. Do what the other guys do. Double it. Of course there are exceptions, but those prove the rule.

[Adami]

I also disagree that he's always played that way. Listen to his drumming on "No Respect" and "Leave Me Alone" by Extreme, I really like his drumming in those days.

Groove and swing to his playing.

Because the music that he is locking on to has that groove and swing which is entirely different from DT'S music. You want MM's playing to go back to that style, you have to ask DT to play like Extreme.

This is also true. DT aren’t writing stuff that really swings and grooves. Not MMS fault on that part.

[Lethean]

I guess.... I don't really care too much about "groove" maybe.  I love Rush and have no complaints about Neil Peart, but I certainly read a lot of "lacks groove" complaints about him over the years.  But when I started listening to DT, I read even more comments like that about MP, and Neil was compared favorably to MP and people said he had "more" groove.  Now that Mike Mangini has replaced MP, suddenly MP has lots of groove and MM has none.  I love all 3 drummers, from my non-drummer perspective.  I love Baard Kolstad too - I wonder if people consider him too robotic as well, or lacking groove, or whatever.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I don't really look for groove when I listen to any kind of modern metal, I think. I love and understand the delicacies of an amazing groove and "out-of-the-grid" playing in a wide array of musical genres (as I do and produce music for a living, so I'm exposed to music probably like 8 hours a day), but I consider that a super strict and sharp quantized-like feel is part of the modern metal aesthetic now; and MM brings that to the table and I think it's fine. MP seemed to want to take DT in this metal direction during his last years with the band (and I'm willing to debate anyone who disagrees on this ), was heavily criticized back then, and funnily enough, MM brought the band to that level and people reject it because DT music lacks "soul" now or something to that extent (probably most used ever argument in the post-MP days among the DT fandom). It's a thing worth to analyze, at least to me.

Also, someone said that The Astonishing was really progressive by spirit and I wholeheartedly agree. TA is one of my favorite DT albums ever, and I don't care if it's overlong (and yeah, it kinda drags at some point), but for some reason the melodic wealth of that album really clicked with me. No wonder since the music I listen to the most nowadays is classical and film scores. Like it or hate it, The Astonishing is what progressive rock is all about in my book. I get people who say that it's boring or whatever, but that controversial spirit is what made some pieces of music stand out the test of time; and I'm gonna shut up about TA now lol.

New song is still growing on me. I really like it now, and although I recognize and agree the mix is far from perfect (as Haken's Vector is), but it's still really enjoyable. Verse 2 is probably my favorite part of the song, and the hammond solo. That one really rocked.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Oh, I don't think I've actually mentioned my opinion of the song here.

ITS AMAZING 

Seriously, this song is such a joy to listen to. It's not the most elaborate thing they've done, but it knows exactly when to be forceful, when to be soulful and when to just prog the fuck out. It never feels like anything's out of place or even changes all too much, but it makes feel so many different things that is feels like I'm going on a journey every time I listen to it. This is such a great track & now I'm even more hyped for the album.

I mean, there's never been a DT lead single that I didn't absolutely love (except Hollow Years), but it's just another reminder that this band never disappoints. 

[lovethedrake]

A few more listens and the song has definitely grown on me.     If this is the most modern song on the album it could be a special album.

The vocals aren't sounding as low anymore to me and the instrumental section is pretty great.   

Very excited for the album.     

[Schurftkut]

You guys gave me a good reason to listen to Andromeda - Reaching Deep Within. Brilliant drumming and kinda DT-ish song.

[TheLordOfTheStrings]

I've read through the last four pages of this thread, shaking my head the entire time. I'm flabbergasted at the level of entitlement some of you have. I want this, I want that. Someone even literally wrote that they were "sick and tired of this shit" and someone else was saying that DT didn't put a lot of thought into it. It honestly and sadly makes me wonder why I spend my time coming to DTF, which is sad because I was so happy when I found this place eight years ago - a community of people who share a love for my favorite band. The level of complaining about someone else's art is frankly disgusting. If you don't like it then Jesus Christ that's fuckin fine, but to wine and complain because you want DT's music to be something other than what DT wants it to be is just flat out wrong and disrespectful as fuck, and to make outlandish claims like they "didn't put thought into it" just because you didn't like the song is such bullshit. If it's not what you want it to be it's because it's not your music. If you want some other type of music to exist, feel free to make it yourself.

Now on to my opinion - to compare this to my thoughts on their other recent singles, I like it more than I liked TEI when that was released, though the two songs are similar in terms of style and heaviness. I don't think I like it nearly as much as I liked TGOM, but I definitely don't dislike UA. I initially thought James's vocal effects were an interesting choice, and I originally thought the vocals were low in the mix as most of you have pointed out. I think the vocal effects work really well during the "Fear can live inside you" section. Actually, I'm surprised more people haven't commented on how cool that part is. That's definitely a highlight of the song for me. JP's solos are excellent as usual. I'm enjoying the heavy half time riffs and I certainly think this is the best drum sound from the MM era (though every album is an improvement [with the exception of DT12's snare]). James's execution of some of the higher parts lacks diction which is something that's typically very prominent in his live performances but happens less often on DT's studio albums. I suppose in his older age in order to hit some of those higher notes that's something he has to sacrifice, so that's a bit unfortunate. Overall I like it. DT's first album singles aren't usually the best songs on the album, and for me personally, they usually end up being my least favorite, so it's probably a good sign that I'm enjoying this as much as I am.

[erwinrafael]

I don't really look for groove when I listen to any kind of modern metal, I think. I love and understand the delicacies of an amazing groove and "out-of-the-grid" playing in a wide array of musical genres (as I do and produce music for a living, so I'm exposed to music probably like 8 hours a day), but I consider that a super strict and sharp quantized-like feel is part of the modern metal aesthetic now; and MM brings that to the table and I think it's fine. MP seemed to want to take DT in this metal direction during his last years with the band (and I'm willing to debate anyone who disagrees on this ), was heavily criticized back then, and funnily enough, MM brought the band to that level and people reject it because DT music lacks "soul" now or something to that extent (probably most used ever argument in the post-MP days among the DT fandom). It's a thing worth to analyze, at least to me.

Now that you brought it out, I think it is telling that the DT drummer audition pieces were A Nightmare To Remember and The Dance Of Eternity. It sort of tells you what drummer type they were looking for, and Mangini was tailor fit for those songs.

[MirrorMask]

I thought that The Dance of Eternity was picked simply because if you can play THAT crazy stuff, you can basically play anything 

[Lax]

After a few listens on better speakers it's definitively a grower
I have the chorus in the head and the solos section is quite crazy, so it's a solid song to me.
I don't know if we can really dislike the fact that modern DT sounds like modern DT, they aren't writing scenes from a memory or six degrees each time they get together.

On a side note, I wish dream theater was more like LTE with a singer, but it will not happen, and maybe a lot of fans would hate that ! (I know a lot of fans that hates every mellow or not heavy machine-gunning songs, like if DT didn't exist before TOT).

[MirrorMask]

On a side note, I wish dream theater was more like LTE with a singer, but it will not happen, and maybe a lot of fans would hate that ! (I know a lot of fans that hates every mellow or not heavy machine-gunning songs, like if DT didn't exist before TOT).

"LTE with a singer" is basically the only aspect of DT I was never 100% on board with. By the end of MP's tenure too many songs had a solo section clearly conjured in "LTE mode" where the guys would just jam and, I assume, use as solo section whatever came up, at expense of the flow and the mood of the song. Instrumental music is one thing, a proper song is another, and I want a song to flow, and the solo section, as crazy and long as it might be (see Metropolis), to not stray completely away from the mood of the song.

[Bertielee]

I also disagree that he's always played that way. Listen to his drumming on "No Respect" and "Leave Me Alone" by Extreme, I really like his drumming in those days.

Groove and swing to his playing.

Because the music that he is locking on to has that groove and swing which is entirely different from DT'S music. You want MM's playing to go back to that style, you have to ask DT to play like Extreme.

This is also true. DT aren’t writing stuff that really swings and grooves. Not MMS fault on that part.

Yes, I agree as well , but just listen to the second verse of Never Enough: what MP does is groovy as hell ;  the breakdown before the solo in Constant Motion? The same. It dépends on the drummer as well as the music IMO.

B.Lee

[JRuless]

shaking my head the entire time.

Entire post +1

[Ben_Jamin]

If Myung wanted to jam like the old days...I'm feeling the main riff is Myungs. Watch the music video. And you know how Myung wrote the heavy part of Strange Dejavu. This is Myungs musical contribution.

[Kyo]

I thought that The Dance of Eternity was picked simply because if you can play THAT crazy stuff, you can basically play anything 

From watching quite a few videos of it, I'd say a lot of TDoE isn't really all that hard to play on drums - there isn't a whole lot going on where you need superhuman speed or limb independence. The main challenge is remembering all the time signature changes.

[noxon]

Well, whenever I see people who really knows how to play stuff, it looks so effortless and easy. Then I try it myself and just realize that I don't know what the hell I'm even talking about

[Kocak]

All I want from DT drums is cool, creative rhythms like MP composed on the first 6 albums. Don’t need machine-gun fills or polymeters in 17/16 and 23/8. Oh and it’s nice if you can hear the drums clearly as well.

I also want a good mix. A recent example would be Soen. Their single Martyrs is a great example.

Never listened to Soen before. Just took a listen to Martyrs and Rival. Great stuff! I agree about the mix on this. Surprisingly balanced and good clarity for such a loud master. This is a good comparison for Untethered Angel as this is has similar dynamic range (DR7). Just read a review for Soen Lotus and vinyl is supposed to have better mastering with DR12. I am definately getting this on vinyl. Thanks for mentioning this.

My pleasure. I just wanted to provide an example of what I think a balanced mix should be. Glad you like it as well.

[Another_Won]

Does anyone else hear what sounds like a sample of a voice talking at the end of the song?  Like the one in BAI.

[jayvee3]

I've read through the last four pages of this thread, shaking my head the entire time. I'm flabbergasted at the level of entitlement some of you have.

Amen to that whole section of your post brother 

[gzarruk]

I've read through the last four pages of this thread, shaking my head the entire time. I'm flabbergasted at the level of entitlement some of you have.

Amen to that whole section of your post brother 

Indeed

[TAC]

I don't think entitlement is the right word at all. People are passionate about their music. The bands I am most critical about are the bands that I love the most. It can be frustrating if they go into a direction that you don't like.

[genome]

Listened to it a good bunch of times now.

I really love the "Fear can live inside you" part - such a nice tonality and voicing, I hope there's more of that on the album.

[Chino]

This song didn't do a whole lot for me tbh. Not really feeling the vocal effects, and while I loved the song Outcry, the beginning of this song felt like the rejected demos of that song.

All the video did was make me wish we could get a 6 minute video of JP cooking meat.

[New World Rushman]

All the video did was make me wish we could get a 6 minute video of JP cooking meat.

There is some legit barbecue going on there. Looks like giant burgers in the tray JLB is holding. Then we have JP putting some big ass chicken thighs on a nice looking drum smoker, and I noticed a 22" Weber kettle in the background with a proper charcoal chimney; no lighter fluid for John. Excellent.

Oh yeah, and I like the song.

[Bertielee]

All the video did was make me wish we could get a 6 minute video of JP cooking meat.

There is some legit barbecue going on there. Looks like giant burgers in the tray JLB is holding. Then we have JP putting some big ass chicken thighs on a nice looking drum smoker, and I noticed a 22" Weber kettle in the background with a proper charcoal chimney; no lighter fluid for John. Excellent.

Oh yeah, and I like the song.

I like it how you added that as an afterthought. As an aside, you make me wanna go eat some barbecued stuff.

B.Lee

[fischermasamune]

I listened through it via the Youtube music video.

Initially, it did seem souless, and incredibly safe, DT-by-numbers as they put it. But I listened more times in search of redeeming features.

Now, 20 listens later, it has clicked. The first third is about expected and not too special, but the second third has a better verse (both lyrically and instrumentally), being a well-composed Dream Theater experience. The instrumental break is quite good, not too heavy, with breathing space, short and at the same time tasty with good ideas. It's the opposite of dragging (I can't express this idea in a single word). The last third (starting with the last chorus) is nice in the sense that they didn't go crazy, and rather follow an interesting warm-down of the song (a better one than Moment Of Betrayal). Although sometimes it appears to be a wall of sound, it isn't that much. I think Rudess frenetic playing makes sense - without it, it could sound like another other band, and this song would have less of an identity.

As for the lyrics, initially I thought they were about suicide (although some verses need to be correctly interpreted). Not too outlandish, and as I mention, the second verse is quite good (with the exception of the line "something needs to change", which could have more syllables). The chorus appeared a little too bland and traditional at the start, but now I think it's adequate.

If all the songs are of this quality, I will be satisfied. (It will, though, take a dozen hours of listening to learn to appreciate them!)

[Pound4aBrown]

I don't think entitlement is the right word at all. People are passionate about their music. The bands I am most critical about are the bands that I love the most. It can be frustrating if they go into a direction that you don't like.

Kinda sounds like entitlement to me.