Why did Queen lose the States in the 80's?

[ytserush]

Two words

HOT. SPACE.

The hit single didn’t matter. They had been a “NO SYNTH” band for 10 years, and within the span of 2 albums, had gone disco. And the timing was horrible...because it came out 2 years after America had declared war on disco. The backlash was severe and completely unavoidable.

Heck, Americans couldn’t even forgive Iron Maiden for using synths 4 years later! They certainly weren’t going to give Queen a pass.

Anyone who wasn’t there has no idea. There was a HUGE hatred for synthesizers in the early 80s by nearly every longhair in the country.

Then how do you explain the massive popularity of Tom Sawyer?

I think pg1067 already gave a legitimate explanation:

As others have noted, while synths were integral to new wave bands, they were a huge pariah among the hard rock/metal fans.  Interestingly, Rush seemed to get a pass on this issue -- probably because they had already established keyboards as a significant part of their sound in the late 70s.

Now that I think about it, not only had they used keyboards in the 70s, but they were not one of these bands like Maiden or Queen that swore up and down to never use keyboards. You make that claim and then do a complete about face, and it's bound to anger the fans.

Stadler made another follow up point:  it's not just the use of synths, but the sound of the synths.  Compare the synth patches used by Rush on Moving Pictures (and even Signals) to what was used on subsequent albums.  The Queen songs under discussion also heavily used sequencers, which Rush didn't really do until GUP (and briefly in the intro for "Vital Signs").  But yeah, Rush got a pass (as did Genesis for a little while).

Also to that point, Rush never used the trendy period sounds that are other albums from that era. There stated intention was to stay away from that.

[ytserush]

It was 1989.  Tim was too busy listening to Skid Row and Dr. Feelgood that year.

As any sensible person would be 🤘

I was listening to Dream Theater, Kings X, Living Colour, Queensryche and Rush  among others but maybe I'm not sensible......

[ytserush]

uuuhh I thought the queen lost the states in the 1770's, not the 80's?

I see what you did there.

[Stadler]

Two words

HOT. SPACE.

The hit single didn’t matter. They had been a “NO SYNTH” band for 10 years, and within the span of 2 albums, had gone disco. And the timing was horrible...because it came out 2 years after America had declared war on disco. The backlash was severe and completely unavoidable.

Heck, Americans couldn’t even forgive Iron Maiden for using synths 4 years later! They certainly weren’t going to give Queen a pass.

Anyone who wasn’t there has no idea. There was a HUGE hatred for synthesizers in the early 80s by nearly every longhair in the country.

Then how do you explain the massive popularity of Tom Sawyer?

I think pg1067 already gave a legitimate explanation:

As others have noted, while synths were integral to new wave bands, they were a huge pariah among the hard rock/metal fans.  Interestingly, Rush seemed to get a pass on this issue -- probably because they had already established keyboards as a significant part of their sound in the late 70s.

Now that I think about it, not only had they used keyboards in the 70s, but they were not one of these bands like Maiden or Queen that swore up and down to never use keyboards. You make that claim and then do a complete about face, and it's bound to anger the fans.

Stadler made another follow up point:  it's not just the use of synths, but the sound of the synths.  Compare the synth patches used by Rush on Moving Pictures (and even Signals) to what was used on subsequent albums.  The Queen songs under discussion also heavily used sequencers, which Rush didn't really do until GUP (and briefly in the intro for "Vital Signs").  But yeah, Rush got a pass (as did Genesis for a little while).

Also to that point, Rush never used the trendy period sounds that are other albums from that era. There stated intention was to stay away from that.

Except for Grace Under Pressure.  That's a Police record, in oh so many ways (not all of them - not MOST of them - good). 

[ytserush]

Two words

HOT. SPACE.

The hit single didn’t matter. They had been a “NO SYNTH” band for 10 years, and within the span of 2 albums, had gone disco. And the timing was horrible...because it came out 2 years after America had declared war on disco. The backlash was severe and completely unavoidable.

Heck, Americans couldn’t even forgive Iron Maiden for using synths 4 years later! They certainly weren’t going to give Queen a pass.

Anyone who wasn’t there has no idea. There was a HUGE hatred for synthesizers in the early 80s by nearly every longhair in the country.

Then how do you explain the massive popularity of Tom Sawyer?

I think pg1067 already gave a legitimate explanation:

As others have noted, while synths were integral to new wave bands, they were a huge pariah among the hard rock/metal fans.  Interestingly, Rush seemed to get a pass on this issue -- probably because they had already established keyboards as a significant part of their sound in the late 70s.

Now that I think about it, not only had they used keyboards in the 70s, but they were not one of these bands like Maiden or Queen that swore up and down to never use keyboards. You make that claim and then do a complete about face, and it's bound to anger the fans.

Stadler made another follow up point:  it's not just the use of synths, but the sound of the synths.  Compare the synth patches used by Rush on Moving Pictures (and even Signals) to what was used on subsequent albums.  The Queen songs under discussion also heavily used sequencers, which Rush didn't really do until GUP (and briefly in the intro for "Vital Signs").  But yeah, Rush got a pass (as did Genesis for a little while).

Also to that point, Rush never used the trendy period sounds that are other albums from that era. There stated intention was to stay away from that.

Except for Grace Under Pressure.  That's a Police record, in oh so many ways (not all of them - not MOST of them - good).

You're not the only one with that opinion obviously, but I really don't hear The Police at all. 

There may be some similarity in some places how the guitar is applied, but it's Alex's style not Andy Summers. The sounds are totally different.

[Stadler]

Stylistically it's not Andy Summers, but some of the rhythmic stabs and sparseness are reminiscent of him.   That and the drums, for me.  Of course, vocally, lyrically, arrangements, etc. there's virtually no similarity, so I don't want to take it too far, but still.   Although - and he's right - a friend at another forum told me to give it another listen and focus JUST on Alex; there is a lot of pretty tasty little licks and figures on that record that on "normal" listening, don't really cut through like they should/could.  It's the bright spot on the record for sure.

[pg1067]

I would say that "The Enemy Within" (my favorite GUP song) sounds very Police-ish -- particularly the guitar.  The intro to "Between the Wheels" also has a very Ghost in the Machine vibe to it.

[ytserush]

Stylistically it's not Andy Summers, but some of the rhythmic stabs and sparseness are reminiscent of him.   That and the drums, for me.  Of course, vocally, lyrically, arrangements, etc. there's virtually no similarity, so I don't want to take it too far, but still.   Although - and he's right - a friend at another forum told me to give it another listen and focus JUST on Alex; there is a lot of pretty tasty little licks and figures on that record that on "normal" listening, don't really cut through like they should/could.  It's the bright spot on the record for sure.

Possibly, but The Police sound has always been warmer than anything on Grace Under Pressure. But Grace Under Pressure  was meant to sound that way, cold and clinical, which is mostly in keeping with the lyrics.

So while there may be some kind of influence (and I'm not doubting there was) he took it and when somewhere else with it and made it his own. I think it's in a different space musically which is one of these reasons I'm probably not picking that up.