Can Music Be Objectively Good?

[jammindude]

[King Postwhore]

Why would you report him for a thread?  Why not just not come to this thread?

[jammindude]

I suppose the more concise, TLDR version of my argument would be:

What's the greatest car ever made?  There are probably hundreds of cars that would be debatable options.  That's subjective.  But ANY expert will tell you that it's NOT a Yugo.   And that is objective.    But where does that line get crossed?   It's different for everyone, and many people at different levels of expertise will have different opinions on where the line gets crossed.   But the line DOES exist.  It's just not a black and white line.  It's an abstract concept.

[Adami]

I suppose the more concise, TLDR version of my argument would be:

What's the greatest car ever made?  There are probably hundreds of cars that would be debatable options.  That's subjective.  But ANY expert will tell you that it's NOT a Yugo.   And that is objective.    But where does that line get crossed?   It's different for everyone, and many people at different levels of expertise will have different opinions on where the line gets crossed.   But the line DOES exist.  It's just not a black and white line.  It's an abstract concept.

What's the greatest screw driver ever made? Phillips? Flat head? Well, it depends what you need it for. Because it's a tool.

Just like a car.

Unlike music.

[Podaar]

I suppose the more concise, TLDR version of my argument would be:

What's the greatest car ever made?  There are probably hundreds of cars that would be debatable options.  That's subjective.  But ANY expert will tell you that it's NOT a Yugo.   And that is objective.    But where does that line get crossed?   It's different for everyone, and many people at different levels of expertise will have different opinions on where the line gets crossed.   But the line DOES exist.  It's just not a black and white line.  It's an abstract concept.

No it's not. That's just the expert's opinion.

I'll try one last time:

I have a jar with 60 Skittles in it. If I asked everyone on DTF to guess the number of Skittles, we could tell who was right or wrong my simply counting them. That's objective

If we asked everyone on DTF which color of Skittle is the best (even if someone was the most experienced candy maker the world has ever known) no one's answer would be wrong or right. It would all be a matter of opinion. That's subjective

[jammindude]

By that argument, a person who feels that the Yugo is the greatest car ever made has an equally valid opinion as the thousands of experts who say otherwise.     Sorry....but I'm going with the experts and say that that guy is a nut job who doesn't know anything about cars.  I don't know a damn thing about cars, and even I can figure out that guy knows even less than I do.   The very fact that he would say that opinion with a straight face would PROVE that he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.  And putting his opinion on equal footing with those who know better only serves to confuse people who come to the table and actually want to learn something about cars.   

[jammindude]

The whole "all opinions are valid" POV is just ridiculous to me.  It throws the need for any sort of education or expertise completely out the window.   

[Podaar]

Like Adami says, cars are tools, tools aren't music, music is an artistic aesthetic.

Let me put it to you this way. Which color of car is best, objectively?

[jammindude]

Do you know what car I personally LOVE?   I wish I had one, but I don't.  But I want one someday. 

A Chrysler PT Cruiser.   I think that car is SOOO cool looking.   

My car expert friends roll their eyes, and tell me I'm nuts, and that it's a crappy car.    But I actually think THEY are right.  Because I don't place my opinion on the same level as theirs.   I like the PT Cruiser better than better cars, but I'm open about the fact that I'm a dumbass when it comes to cars.   And that's all OK.   There's nothing wrong with saying, "I like Nickelback, even though I know that they actually suck.   I know there are people out there who know more about music than I do, and their opinions on music are more valid than mine BECAUSE they care more about it than I do.   I care more about GOLF (or insert whatever field of study you want) than they do, so if they ever want golf advice, I'll be there for them, and if I ever want to know more about music, they will be there for me."   

[Adami]

The whole "all opinions are valid" POV is just ridiculous to me.  It throws the need for any sort of education or expertise completely out the window.

No it does not.

[WildRanger]

Is Monica Belluci objectively a beautiful woman? Who can argue with that? And which objective arguments that she is not, someone could have ?

[bosk1]

1.  This thread was answered in the first post.  Done.

2.  JD, you are objectively incorrect.  You clearly do not understand what "objective" and "subjective" mean.

3.  WildRanger, you likewise clearly do not understand.  From day 1 of your presence here, all you seem interested in is taking ridiculous positions to annoy others and create arguments.  Think about this during your 7-day vacation.  If you persist, you will be banned from the forum permanently.  Yes, this is the first time you are being told his by the forum staff.  But that is largely because countless forum members have beat us to the punch in the past and told you the same thing, over and over and over again.  There is no place for acting like that on this forum.