Author Topic: Ticketmaster finally going down?  (Read 15622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34634
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #70 on: November 17, 2022, 02:03:26 PM »
They sure look really REALLY bad now  :lol Also looks like AOC is locking in on them

Online Anguyen92

  • Posts: 4633
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #71 on: November 17, 2022, 02:05:21 PM »
So if they are canceling the actual chance to buy them without presale on Friday, what's going to happen with the tickets?  Who gets them?  Is there still a tour?  Many other questions beyond that as well.

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15765
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #72 on: November 17, 2022, 02:07:27 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

Seems this is a problem with the system relying too much on one way of buying tickets, and the venue relying on one company to handle that system of selling tickets.

There are others I have seen used such as what Cram mentioned with AXS. Most venues here utilize a ticket company called Hold My Ticket for their events and you can even go to their office in downtown and buy a physical ticket, which quite a lot of people still do.

I also, do not understand why in gods green earth Ticketmaster decided doing that Platinum Ticket crap was a good idea in the first place. When they implemented that, this is when I started to not really attend shows at that bigger venue, the lineups have to be good enough to justify me paying that much for a show at that place, not to mention the other stuff Live Nation handles at the venues. And then you got the venue needing my hands and feet just to make money on their end by charging me $5 for a water in a can.  :lol



I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #73 on: November 17, 2022, 02:09:59 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758

This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down?  Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply? If your wishful thinking comes true, and TM gets "taken down," how will things be better?

I give Taylor Swift credit. Seems like she did what she could to maximize the number of tickets. Three shows at Jerry World is unheard of, and should amount to easily 180k tickets depending on staging. Apparently that's not enough. I can think think of a few options, but no matter what a bunch of people are going to be seriously pissed off. They could run a lottery. Scalpers will still get plenty, though. Hell, I'd throw my hat into a lottery to flip the silly things. That won't help. They could try to match price to supply. People are already pissed off about that, though. Seriously, what's TM supposed to do?

Like I said, I understand why TM is the badguy here. It's the way people want it. It's really not their problem, though. Lots of people can help to solve the issue far more effectively than TM, which is just doing what the artists want. Local and state governments could ban ticket scalping. That'd certainly help. Not TM's responsibility. Make it so that tickets can be exchanged only for face value, and anything more is criminal. Or, Taylor Swift could make it clear that she'll play as many dates as necessary, and add shows until supply = demand. That'd also help.

Lastly, though it's been said countless times before, fuck Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. If this is the thing that makes her target TM, then she has a massive lack of understanding as to what the problem actually is.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34634
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #74 on: November 17, 2022, 02:11:19 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #75 on: November 17, 2022, 02:14:02 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Lonk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6218
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #76 on: November 17, 2022, 02:23:59 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758

This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down?  Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply?.
If demand>Supply, isn't that just your good ol' sold out show? Not sure what the issue is there. I bought tickets before where the show sold out in minutes. It does sounds like they released more tickets during pre-sale than they probably should have.

I'm not an IT person but to avoid the system from breaking down again, can TM just release the tickets slowly in batches? Say release 2000 tickets at once, and when the queue reaches 2000, prevent anyone else from joining the queue until the next batch is release? I know that would be annoying, and might not even work :dunno:
Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #77 on: November 17, 2022, 02:30:09 PM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758

This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down?  Or is this just wishful thinking?
What's the better alternative? And I mean that in two ways. What's TM supposed to do when demand so greatly outweighs supply?.
If demand>Supply, isn't that just your good ol' sold out show? Not sure what the issue is there. I bought tickets before where the show sold out in minutes. It does sounds like they released more tickets during pre-sale than they probably should have.
Absolutely. The problem is that back in the day sold out meant Maiden fans beat you to it. Sold out in this case means scalpers hold the tickets and sell them to the highest bidder. There's a class aspect here that pretty much nobody likes.

Quote
I'm not an IT person but to avoid the system from breaking down again, can TM just release the tickets slowly in batches? Say release 2000 tickets at once, and when the queue reaches 2000, prevent anyone else from joining the queue until the next batch is release? I know that would be annoying, and might not even work
I think the bigger thing would be for TM to simply not try and sell every show simultaneously at 10:00. They're claiming 14 million tried to buy tickets on Tue. Staggering the onsale times would certainly help. Though, it's also true that scalpers are no longer confined to their home markets nowadays, so perhaps not enough.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34634
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2022, 02:34:35 PM »
It is kind of an odd scenario as basically all artists don't have this kind of draw.  The amount of stadium shows in each stadium is pretty incredible.  I think the only other comparison I've seen is how Garth Brooks does it, keeps adding a date until it doesn't sell out.  I'd imagine that makes it impossible to book a tour, but hey, if you are on this level, these may be your only options to not piss off the fans.  I really don't know what the solution is because as stated, supply/demand.  Even if another company took over, if the demand is sky high then so will their prices. 

If the government is going to go after them, they probably should look more into the fees.  Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see the different in fees for a ticket at face value vs the ticket at the raised platinum prices.  I just don't see why the fees are a % of the ticket price.

Funny enough, livenation is doing a 2 for 1 sale for select concerts that started today.  One of which I want to see so I went to check the tickets and check this out! LOL  :rollin


Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 4504
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2022, 02:50:01 PM »
I'm feeling pretty grateful that the biggest band I love is Rush, and while it did become more difficult to get "good" seats towards the end, it was certainly never anything like this.

Online Ben_Jamin

  • Posts: 15765
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm just a man, thrown into existence by the gods
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2022, 03:00:47 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.

It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.

It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
I don't know how they can be so proud of winning with them odds. - Little Big Man
Follow my Spotify:BjamminD

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2022, 03:08:01 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.

It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.

It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
I'm not willing to blame capitalists for being capitalists. What they're doing is perfectly legal. I agree that it probably shouldn't be, but until that happens I'm not castigating them for taking advantage of a fundamentally stupid system.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2022, 03:43:33 PM »
I still do not understand why you can't just go to the venue and buy the ticket there. The venue should be able to say, "Okay, we have these seats available, and you can bypass the hassle of waiting online by purchasing them directly from the ticket box office at the venue." The venue should be able to just show you the seats available, hand you your ticket, and then scratch out the seat on the system. Wasn't that how you used to be able to buy tickets?

I'd guess going to the venue to buy tickets wouldn't work because the venue would have the same issue accessing the available tickets like anyone else so it would just be impossible to deal with a line of people physically instead of the virtual queue.
This is correct. Moreover, scalpers would just do what they used to do, and pay bums to sleep on the sidewalk in front of the venue. Most Taylor Swift cans can't afford to do that. Plenty of us have actually done that before (and had a great time doing so). It's just not feasible for real people nowadays.

It would be if Ticket Scalping was made illegal and if it was actually enforced. Also, you could enforce a limit to the amount of tickets you can buy down to like 2-4 tickets a person instead of 8.

It is interesting that people are blaming Ticketmaster, yet the real culprits are the scalpers. :yarr Those people are the ones we should going after, we should be making it difficult to scalp. And one way is to enforce legal action against people that do.
I'm not willing to blame capitalists for being capitalists. What they're doing is perfectly legal. I agree that it probably shouldn't be, but until that happens I'm not castigating them for taking advantage of a fundamentally stupid system.

Agreed.  The scalpers are merely taking advantage of the system TM set up, and you know they in bed together so that TM gets a massive chunk of the money sold by 3rd parties who magically always happen to grab a bunch of seats that no one else had a chance to buy. Heck, many of them are sold on TM's site itself for exorbitant amounts of money, so anyone telling me that TM isn't in bed with the scalpers is something wearing white gloves to whom I'd like sell a ketchup popsicle.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #83 on: November 17, 2022, 03:54:16 PM »
Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75188
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #84 on: November 17, 2022, 04:02:35 PM »
Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.

So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.

In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #85 on: November 17, 2022, 04:18:51 PM »
Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.

So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.

In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.

In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.

Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75188
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #86 on: November 17, 2022, 04:28:52 PM »
Well, yeah, I should've qualified that it didn't implicate TM, but my point was that deals with agencies like Ace Ticket do exist. To bring it back to TM though, I can't believe that every Verified Resale ticket is simply some Joe Shmo that can't make the game cuz he's gotta work. The Verified Resale market seems to be in some ways coordinated behind the scenes at TM. I definitely believe that.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34634
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2022, 04:54:58 PM »
I'd love to see them open the books too. 

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #88 on: November 17, 2022, 06:44:45 PM »
I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers.  You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE. 

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75188
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #89 on: November 17, 2022, 06:46:32 PM »
Who's you guys? I'm with you!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2022, 06:49:08 PM »
Oh, sorry, your double negative there threw me off.  :lol :lol

I will be interested to see how this plays out, as I am sure Taylor Swift has a team of lawyers that are storming the castle right now. The last thing she wants is to play these shows to half empty stadiums because everyone was priced out by the scalpers charging thousands of dollars for a ticket.  How this plays out in the coming weeks will be fascinating.

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 75188
  • Gender: Male
  • Arthritic Metal Horns
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2022, 06:50:26 PM »
I'm sure her lawyers are taking.....um..swift action.












I'm sorry..
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #92 on: November 17, 2022, 07:06:55 PM »
I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers.  You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.

And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all.  In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #93 on: November 17, 2022, 07:07:31 PM »
I'm sure her lawyers are taking.....um..swift action.












I'm sorry..

I knew you were trouble as soon as I saw you had posted in this thread.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #94 on: November 17, 2022, 07:10:39 PM »
I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers.  You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.

And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all.  In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.

You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end.  I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great.  Anecdotal perhaps.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #95 on: November 17, 2022, 07:26:39 PM »
I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers.  You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.

And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all.  In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.

You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end.  I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great.  Anecdotal perhaps.
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.

Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #96 on: November 17, 2022, 07:31:32 PM »
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.

Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.

I agree with what you are saying.  I guess I should be thrilled I got two tickets for the first Nashville show for $99 each ($130 each after the TM service charges), which was the face value. 

To touch on what you were saying, when I saw Judas Priest in late 2021, I bought a ticket literally when walking from my car to the entrance the night of the concert...for $20.  That was a steal, and such is the advantage of waiting it out.

I don't see the demand dropping for these Taylor stadium shows, so I shudder to think how much many will ultimately sell for.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #97 on: November 17, 2022, 07:47:02 PM »
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.

Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.

I agree with what you are saying.  I guess I should be thrilled I got two tickets for the first Nashville show for $99 each ($130 each after the TM service charges), which was the face value. 

To touch on what you were saying, when I saw Judas Priest in late 2021, I bought a ticket literally when walking from my car to the entrance the night of the concert...for $20.  That was a steal, and such is the advantage of waiting it out.

I don't see the demand dropping for these Taylor stadium shows, so I shudder to think how much many will ultimately sell for.
We once bought 3 tickets for Maiden in Denver for $5 each. We gave him a twenty and wouldn't let him give us the change.  :lol

Like I said, it really pays to understand how the business works and how the market will behave for any given show. The release of official tickets (which will happen for Taylor, BTW) also wrecks havoc with the resale market. They won't last long, but good seats for the TS show will pop up through the day of the show.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #98 on: November 17, 2022, 07:58:07 PM »
We once bought 3 tickets for Maiden in Denver for $5 each. We gave him a twenty and wouldn't let him give us the change.  :lol

Like I said, it really pays to understand how the business works and how the market will behave for any given show. The release of official tickets (which will happen for Taylor, BTW) also wrecks havoc with the resale market. They won't last long, but good seats for the TS show will pop up through the day of the show.

I guess time will tell, but I don't doubt anything you are saying.  :tup :tup

As a sidebar, as I get older, the wait it out approach is tricky, as there are days I just don't feel like going to a concert.  I went to Death Cab with two friends last month and all day I kept thinking, "I really don't feel like going to a concert tonight," but I went and was glad I did, as it was a great show.  Had it been a "I will buy the day of the concert" scenario, I likely wouldn't have gone.  So, buying ahead of time worked to my advantage.  Regarding the aforementioned Priest concert, I literally decided at like 6:45 pm that night that I wanted to go, jumped in my car, drove to the venue (20 minutes away), bought the ticket on the way in, and had a good time.  That was actually nice to go by myself (only my 2nd concert ever where I've done that), as I was able to work off my own time table verses going with friends where it becomes a whole evening thing, which is not a bad thing, but some nights I just want to hit the show and then go home.  Such is getting older. :lol  Okay, story time is over.

Offline Zoom E

  • Posts: 903
  • Gender: Female
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #99 on: November 17, 2022, 11:39:01 PM »
Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.

So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.

In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.

In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.

Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.

With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing thatís exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I donít know what will.

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/

Offline Lonk

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6218
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #100 on: November 18, 2022, 06:43:57 AM »
With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing thatís exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I donít know what will.

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/

The whole time I was reading this, I was thinking "Wasn't there some scandal a few years back with TM and scalpers", and yeah I remember that same article. I think it was one of those things that it was a questions of "is it ethical?", not "is it legal?".

I do wish TM would be a bit more regulated with their fees and pricing (Come on, the "Official Platinum" crap is out of control). Scalpers will find a way, that's something that unless a ticket is attached to a name, it will always exist and be an issue for fans, but the dynamic pricing crap is something that should be regulated (yeah, yeah, I know demand high = price is high, but I have problems with that mentality as well).
Vmadera has evolved into Lonk

Online lonestar

  • DTF Executive Chef
  • Official DTF Tour Guide
  • ****
  • Posts: 30234
  • Gender: Male
  • Silly Hatted Knife Chucker
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #101 on: November 18, 2022, 07:33:48 AM »
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758

This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down?  Or is this just wishful thinking?

Just heard about this...this should go a great deal towards seeing how bulletproof live nation is.

Offline KevShmev

  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 42042
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #102 on: November 18, 2022, 07:54:23 AM »
I suspect they are bulletproof.  Some will make a lot of noise, but this will eventually die down and things will move on for them as always, sadly.  It does sound like Taylor and her team might have been behind the cancellation of today's general sale as they work with TM behind the scenes towards some type of resolution towards this mess, but who knows.

Offline cramx3

  • Chillest of the chill
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 34634
  • Gender: Male
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #103 on: November 18, 2022, 08:06:34 AM »
I am stunned you guys think TM is not in bed with the scalpers.  You can see tickets for sale on TM's site for way above face value. Those are the scalpers selling the tickets at a majorly inflated price...ON TICKETMASTER'S SITE.
What I said, and I'm pretty sure I'm right about this, is that TM isn't giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. TM does sell scalper tickets. Their Marketplace is part of their business and they make no bones about it. They don't own any tickets, though. They don't have any to sell. The people who own the tickets are the tour; the artist, the promoters, the corporate sponsors, etc. They're the ones giving the scalpers tickets to be sold. And, of course, scalpers using bots to wait in virtual queues. The reality is that the scalpers don't need TM's help.

And Taylor won't be playing to half empty stadiums. She'll be playing to sold out venues every night. You think the scalpers that are sitting on these tickets would rather eat them than sell them for face value if it comes to that, which it won't? I've seen shows well under face value because the scalpers would rather take a small loss than a huge loss on their tickets. Moreover, a lot of the production hold tickets they sell didn't even cost them anything. You'd prefer to sell a free ticket for $2500, but you'll sell it for $30 before you don't sell it at all.  In this case the scalpers will sell every single ticket they have. It's just a matter of letting the market sort out the value.

You might be right, but it seems like where 3rd party tickets used to plummet in price years ago (I got a U2 ticket the day of the concert for like $40 five years ago), it seems like they hold pretty firm now to the very end.  I remember looking at a concert days before it earlier this year and the scalper prices were still super high, and the seats weren't even that great.  Anecdotal perhaps.
Prices plummet when demand is low. They stand firm when demand is high. A friend and I pay very close attention to the resale market because we've always been able to get great deals. I've only bought a handful of tickets for over face, and even then just barely. I've bought plenty of tickets for under face value. The day before the show you'll see great deals. The day of the show there's a reset and the prices go back up, and will only come down gradually based on predicted demand.

Just like water seeks a level, ticket prices seek their own value.

I should add since we've talked about this before in the concerts thread, that my experiences in 2022 were more in line with Kev.  Finding under face value tickets the day of show has been incredibly hard to come by.  I used to score $5 lawn tickets for my local summer shed, but last summer the best deals I could find were either live nation sales or via the box office to save on fees.  Stubhub/TM resales never seemed to dip below face value.  It certainly seemed like someone was eating the cost of these tickets, but I kind of doubt that on a mass scale so it just seemed odd to me.  Having said that, there may have been more luck to buy from an actual scalper outside the venue.

Offline El Barto

  • Rascal Atheistic Pig
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 30832
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Ticketmaster finally going down?
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2022, 08:29:53 AM »
Now that I think about it, something good might actually from from congressional dipshits taking TM to task. I still maintain that TM isn't the problem, and it's mostly just political theatre, but damn, I'd love to see them open up the books. Unlike Mr. Shmev, I don't think TM is giving tickets to scalpers ahead of the onsales. I do think they're holding back a shit-ton of tickets for various entities, though, and I really want to know how that works. It wouldn't surprise me at all if for the typical concert less than half of the seats were actually released to be sold to the public. Alas, I think we'll find that it's the artists themselves who don't want us to know how the tickets are allotted, so we'll probably never find out. And TM will have a vested interest in protecting the artists here, so they won't fork it over willingly.

So, yes, it would be great to see how the sausage is made. But I don't not agree with Kev.

In Boston, Ace Ticket is a major player, and in fact, they are in partnerships with the major teams in town. They are ad sponsors, and have offices across the street from the Garden and Fenway. There's no doubt in my mind that they are given large swaths of tickets, probably at least a thousand to resell with the teams' blessing.
"With the team's blessing" almost certainly means "from the teams." What makes you think Ticketmaster actually has any tickets to give away? In your grocery store there are probably things you sell on consignment (or maybe not, I don't know). If you have X number of widgets to sell on behalf of the supplier, do you get to sell any of them under the table and pocket the money yourself? The tickets TM is giving to scalpers before they go onsale almost certainly come from the artist and the promoter. And don't forget Citibank, who has X number of tickets set aside.

In fact, TM having their own tickets to give to scalpers would probably be so controversial, and very likely criminal, that it's the last thing they'd get involved with. They're making bank without exposing themselves to that sort of trouble.

Again, this is why I'd love to see them open the books. And why the artists are probably terrified of it happening.

With regard to your comment about TM giving tickets to scalpers, there was a big expose a few years back showing thatís exactly what they were doing. And if that revelation didn't bring them down, I donít know what will.

https://www.rollingstone.com/pro/news/ticketmaster-cheating-scalpers-726353/
Perhaps the reason it didn't bring them down is because it was a gross misrepresentation of what's happening. TradeDesk is an inventory management tool to be used by scalpers. Most importantly, it serves as a validation process to make sure the resold tickets are legitimate. Nothing in the article demonstrated that they were dumping tickets to scalpers ahead of fans. Let me be clear, I don't work for TM and I suspect there are more than enough shady dealings to go around, but things like this are part of the problem. Let's rag on them for the things we know they do wrong, rather than the things we assume they are.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson