Ticketmaster finally going down?

[goo-goo]

So it's safe and legit?

Yes, you should be covered. I would go the electronic route preferably.

[ytserush]

So it's safe and legit?

I would think that you're paying extra for the privilege of "safe and legit."

[TAC]

I didn't really want to start a new thread. this isn't really a Ticketmaster topic, but it is Live Nation.

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/8521538/live-nation-resale-market-secretly-recorded-phone-calls-concert-tickets

Metallica, do you really need the money that bad?

[ProfessorPeart]

I was just reading that story. Sadly, I wish I could say I was surprised. I can't tell you how many big name shows I have tried to attend over the years only to be greeted with the 'nothing available' message 1 second after the on-sale.

Makes me happier that I mainly only check out the more obscure artists these days. These big shows just aren't worth the hassle and stress.

[Lonk]

Doesn't surprise me. It's not the first time this has come up and clearly nothing has happened. I limit the shows I go to for that reason. It's gotten very hard to land tickets because of resale market.

[Anguyen92]

Makes me happier that I mainly only check out the more obscure artists these days. These big shows just aren't worth the hassle and stress.

Yeah, honestly.  It isn't.  There were two shows I felt like I really had to metaphorically claw and grab to get tickets for this year: Chris Cornell Tribute show and Iron Maiden and not surprisingly, they were the most expensive tickets I have purchased this year ($95.00 and $70.00).  That stated, aside from possibly seeing Metallica and maybe Paul McCartney and maybe Ed Sheeran, there really isn't any big acts I want to pay those amounts for and honestly, they really aren't going to give me much bang for my buck.  Like on the lower end of the spectrum, I paid $14.00 and $18.00 for tickets to see Winery Dogs and Coheed & Cambria/Mastodon and those were some pretty damn fine shows and I had a good view the whole time.

What I am getting at is, while it's nice to brag about how packed stadium shows and how much millions these shows are generating, you can still find shows of solid (not massive superstars though) name value bands for a decent price.  It may not give you a GA seat all the time, but you get a good view anyway.  Like my next two concerts is Shinedown and Zac Brown Band and I paid $25.00 and $20.00.  Pretty darn sweet good bands even if they are nosebleed seats.

As for the Metallica thing, the band themselves really need to talk to their management about this as they (the band members) seemed to unaware that this was a thing.

According to Metallica reps, the band was unaware of DiCoiccio’s dealings with Live Nation. As of this posting, he is still employed directly by Metallica, working as a ticketing consultant.

https://loudwire.com/metallica-rep-live-nation-scam/

On that note, that reminds me of an article years ago where Metallica was also unaware that one of their lawyers filed a ceased-and-desist letter to a Metallica tribute band, but they took care of that one.  I know it's hard to keep track of everything on the business side for the band members, but there are moments like the Live Nation news where this may hit the fan or it may blow over and we go about our day.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/metallica_apologize_over_cease_and_desist_letter_to_tribute_band_blame_overzealous_attorney.html

[KevShmev]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-calls-ticketmaster-202613014.html

Not like this will make a difference, but I have to agree with AOC.

Ticketmaster is such a scam, it's unreal.  They came off as totally unprepared for the volume today regarding the pre-sale for the Taylor Swift tour, and of course send out some stupid statement about how it was unprecedented volume, ignoring the fact that only people who received presale codes could get tickets today, codes that Ticketmaster sent themselves , so they knew in advance what the volume would be. 

There is a special place in hell for whatever politicians and higher-ups throw money around that allow this kind of monopoly to have existed for so long.

[Anguyen92]

Look mate, if the power of the Swifties is the factor to finally reduce Ticketmaster/Live Nation's stranglehold, more power to them.  Gl, godspeed.

[Orbert]

I can't remember the last time I bought tickets through Ticketmaster, but it was a long time ago, and the prices are a huge reason why it's been so long.  And Ticketmaster is a huge reason why the prices are so insane and why I never go to live shows anymore.  So fuck them.  I hope they go down.

[El Barto]

Tickemaster is the music industry's Roger Goodell. They're a lightning rod that the entire industry wants in place to attract valid criticisms away from their own people, including the artists. Taylor gets to act shocked and appalled that her fans are getting the short end of the stick, while she's making huge money off of this. Ticketmaster's exorbitant fees and track record of shady dealings makes them the perfect choice.

Here's the important thing: If TM and LN were to be broken up, and a mechanism is put in place to foster competition, does anybody actually believe that the cost of buying tickets will go down? I guarantee you they'll go up even faster. The industry is well aware of what the market will support, both in terms of pricing and shady dealings. The new players aren't going to abandon that knowledge. They're going to exploit the shit out of it. The problem has never been the ticketing process and the agencies. It's always been the promoters, the artists, the venues, and anybody else that can figure out how to score themselves a piece of the pie. TM's just the front end we deal with.

[KevShmev]

Some very fair points there, Barto.

I definitely agree that artists as a whole are culpable to an extent for this mess, but to overthrow it and change the system would take a united front from them all, and that just isn't gonna happen. Even Pearl Jam, at the height of their mainstream peak, failed miserably when going up against TM, so it's the monster that seemingly cannot be killed. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I am glad that the local venues here do not use ticketmaster. They use Hold My Ticket which is a great service.

This is from their help page of their website:

We make money by charging a modest service fee to ticket buyers. Our fee is 10-15% of the ticket face value, (although that percentage goes down as the price of a ticket goes up) Example: the fee on a $20 ticket would be $3.50, and a $100 ticket would have a $9.50 fee. You can also choose to absorb some or all of the HMT fees on your customer's behalf. It's all in your control. It is a high priority of ours to keep fees as low as possible!

Some very fair points there, Barto.

I definitely agree that artists as a whole are culpable to an extent for this mess, but to overthrow it and change the system would take a united front from them all, and that just isn't gonna happen. Even Pearl Jam, at the height of their mainstream peak, failed miserably when going up against TM, so it's the monster that seemingly cannot be killed. 

The only venues here that seem to use Ticketmaster are the ones used for the bigger shows, and the only show that had decent prices was the Lamb of God tour selling Pit Tickets for about $80, after the fees it was close to $100. Compare that to Rob Zombie charging $300 bucks for the same Pit Ticket. I was not going to pay that much just to be able to stand in the pit. And don't even get me started on how much the front row for Kiss was. So, I agree the artists are also culpable for it.

[KevShmev]

Artists have to make money, and I won't begrudge those who want to make as much money as possible.  And I get that most venues are owned by TM and/or Live Nation, so artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all.  It's a bad situation for everyone, except the a-holes who run TM.

[El Barto]

Artists have to make money, and I won't begrudge those who want to make as much money as possible.  And I get that most venues are owned by TM and/or Live Nation, so artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all.  It's a bad situation for everyone, except the a-holes who run TM.

I want the artists I like to be prosperous. I'd just prefer that they be upfront about it. The reality is that concert tickets are always undervalued, due in large part to the artists not wanting to seem like greedy bastards. The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it. She wants to see her tickets priced in the $75-150 range to make her fans happy, but she also wants a share of that unrealized value. Not necessarily because she wants another 15 million to go with her hundreds, she doesn't strike me as particularly greedy, but because somebody, somewhere is going to get it. Why shouldn't it be her.

It's funny that the post above this from a few years ago tells pretty much the same story. Metallica was scalping their own tickets, essentially. Better them than the professional scalpers. At the same time, if they (or Taylor, or U2, or Peral Jam) wanted to make things right they probably could. The law shields TM a great deal, but these people have the resources to get around that.

[cramx3]

The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it.

I think it's crazy people will pay this for a concert, but it's true. I can't blame the artist for wanting to make the money, but I'm not entirely sure how it works with the dynamic pricing.  Does the excess go to the artist or livenation?  Also, I don't see how the artists can also play dumb in this.  Are they oblivious to their own industry and social media? I do get that there may not be any options, but ticketmaster but say so and don't play dumb. I think if more artists actually say things like:

artists are usually in a situation where they can either book the venues and use TM or not tour at all. 

Then maybe people will start to realize how much ticketmaster owns of the live concert touring process instead of just looking directly at ticket sales.  The issue is a bit larger than just dynamic pricing.

There's a local provider for a few of the non live nation venues in my area, AXS.  I find their fees and resales to be a lot more fair than ticketmaster, but it all depends on the venue whether or not you need to use AXS or LN (and I'd say it's like a 10 to 1 ratio that you are going to use LN).

[El Barto]

The truth is that Taylor Swift tickets are worth a thousand bucks since there are people willing to pay it.

I think it's crazy people will pay this for a concert, but it's true. I can't blame the artist for wanting to make the money, but I'm not entirely sure how it works with the dynamic pricing.  Does the excess go to the artist or livenation?  Also, I don't see how the artists can also play dumb in this.  Are they oblivious to their own industry and social media? I do get that there may not be any options, but ticketmaster but say so and don't play dumb. I think if more artists actually say things like:

It is my understanding that they do. That does not mean that they necessarily want to, though.

[jammindude]

I do not know why Ticketmaster continues to have such a stranglehold. But I do know that the Pearl Jam juggernaut of the 1990s attempted to derail Ticketmaster and ultimately failed.

There was no bigger ticket in town than Pearl Jam in the 1990s. And they attempted to do their tickets without Ticketmaster and it ended up being a disaster.  So after that, none of the artists wanted to try that again.

[KevShmev]

It is my understanding that Taylor did everything possible for dynamic pricing to not kick in yesterday. I was able to get tickets for the first Nashville show yesterday later in the afternoon for $99 (plus service charges), which shocked me. I thought by the time I made it through the queue, they would be costing me a small fortune.  I suspect that will be impossible to stop once the general sale starts Friday and TM breaks again.

[Lonk]

Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.

[Deathless]

Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.

Kev might be able to share more, but she's doing a hits tour and she hasn't toured in almost 4 years. Demand is HUGE.

[El Barto]

Is there a reason why this particular tour is in such high demand? Is this her first tour post-pandemic? Or is it because of a new album? Just curious.

The girl's popular and she's playing 18k seat venues. They're going to sell out.

Which, BTW, is one of the better ways to counter TM and dynamic pricing. Add more shows to large cities. Kinda simple, honestly. Some of us remember when Van Halen would book 3 shows per city. If 100k people are willing to see Taylor, play for 100k people. Instead she'll play here once and make as much out of it as she can. It's basic supply and demand. Match the two and everybody does alright (except the scalpers).

And just to be fair, I'm not blaming Taylor for any of this, nor am I suggesting that she's a bad person for her involvement in it. She didn't create the situation. She's just living in it and not doing anything to prevent it.


edit: Looks like I got that all wrong. The girl's playing 3 nights at Jerry World. Good on her.    That might not deter scalpers from going all in, but it might mean that many of them take a bath and rethink their life choices.

[KevShmev]

No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each.  She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast.  This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now.  It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless.  Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming.  It's crazy.

[TAC]

Three shows in Foxboro.

[El Barto]

No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each.  She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast.  This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now.  It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless.  Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming.  It's crazy.

Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.

Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other.   

[TAC]

 

[Stadler]

My kid is going to Foxboro. 

Artists are actively seeking alternate ways to get around this.  Both Prince (RIP) and Bruce have taken different views:  Prince "rented" the local arena at the casino near me and handled all the ticketing himself.  He took responsibility for the pricing and the sale/resale.  Bruce took a flat fee, and a hefty one, and left EVERYTHING to the promoter, with the caveat that max ticket prices were capped by contract and there were constraints on sale and resale.  So he wanted things to change but didn't want to handle it himself. 

[KevShmev]

No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each.  She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast.  This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now.  It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless.  Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming.  It's crazy.

Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.

Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other.   

I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke.  (although it has been a long work day )

My guess is that many of the tickets the scalpers grab by this weekend will sit for a while due to them charging thousands of dollars for them, and I don't think a concert is considered sold if you can still buy from the scalpers on TM (again, what a scam), but the fact that dates were announced and then a week later 17 dates were added speaks to how many out there want to go to this.  And she is doing mostly only weekend shows.  IIRC, the last two shows in Los Angeles (of the five) are in the middle of the week following the initial three. Basically, she is doing one city per week, with almost all the shows on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday.

[El Barto]

I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke.  (although it has been a long work day )\

It's actually a good story. Short version is that the guy who owned the Patriots, and son of the founder went all in on the Jackson's Victory tour. He owned half and Don King owned the other half. Guess who made money on the deal? Charles Sullivan lost his shirt (reportedly living in his suite at the old Sullivan Stadium for a while). In the ensuing bankruptcy Bob Kraft bought the stadium, but not the team. (He'd already bought all of the land around it, making it less desirable to other bidders.) The beauty of it was that with the stadium and parking lots, Kraft had the Patriots locked into an iron-clad lease, which scared off any potential bidders when the team came up for sale years later, and Kraft was able to buy it then. So basically, the comedy of errors that was the Jackson's Victory Tour are the reason the Patriots became the Patriots we know today, and Bob Kraft still has a Jacksons tour poster on the wall of his office. 

Thanks, Don. Michael.   

[KevShmev]

Wow, I never knew that. That is wild.

[Anguyen92]

Wow, I never knew that. That is wild.

I actually knew the stuff regarding the Jacksons Reunion tour regarding how it eventually led to Bob Kraft owning the Patriots.  I read that thing on TVTropes.  I think I read that they didn't actually get to play in Sullivan Stadium due to whatever reasons.

[Stadler]

No, no, these are all stadium shows, so she'll be playing to 50-60K minimum at each.  She is doing 5 shows at the new LA stadium which will have over 70K, and all will likely sell out fast.  This is like Michael Jackson in the 80s levels of huge right now.  It helps that it is an eras tour, meaning she will be covering material from her whole career, plus it will be her first full tour since 2018, but demand would have been crazy high regardless.  Her new album is setting records everywhere for sales and streaming.  It's crazy.

Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that. That's the right way to do it. At the same time, if they're still selling out instantly, she's still no matching supply to demand. That's the key.

Also, funny you mentioned Michael Jackson's tour and TAC mentioned Foxboro, since one kind of made the other.   

I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke.  (although it has been a long work day )

My guess is that many of the tickets the scalpers grab by this weekend will sit for a while due to them charging thousands of dollars for them, and I don't think a concert is considered sold if you can still buy from the scalpers on TM (again, what a scam), but the fact that dates were announced and then a week later 17 dates were added speaks to how many out there want to go to this.  And she is doing mostly only weekend shows.  IIRC, the last two shows in Los Angeles (of the five) are in the middle of the week following the initial three. Basically, she is doing one city per week, with almost all the shows on Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday.

She knows her audience.   Even my college-age daughter is FAR more likely to go see a show on Saturday than a Wednesday.   Guys like me, that will hop in a car and drive two hours on a Wednesday to watch two nerds play guitar and drums, aren't likely the bulk of her fanbase.   Hell, even I probably wouldn't go on a Wednesday, given that to see the nerds I can park on the street and walk into the venue 20 minutes before show time and still have time to get merchandise and what not, whereas with a stadium show you need to be there three, four hours in advance with parking, etc. etc.

[Stadler]

I think I missed the MJ/Foxboro joke.  (although it has been a long work day )\

It's actually a good story. Short version is that the guy who owned the Patriots, and son of the founder went all in on the Jackson's Victory tour. He owned half and Don King owned the other half. Guess who made money on the deal? Charles Sullivan lost his shirt (reportedly living in his suite at the old Sullivan Stadium for a while). In the ensuing bankruptcy Bob Kraft bought the stadium, but not the team. (He'd already bought all of the land around it, making it less desirable to other bidders.) The beauty of it was that with the stadium and parking lots, Kraft had the Patriots locked into an iron-clad lease, which scared off any potential bidders when the team came up for sale years later, and Kraft was able to buy it then. So basically, the comedy of errors that was the Jackson's Victory Tour are the reason the Patriots became the Patriots we know today, and Bob Kraft still has a Jacksons tour poster on the wall of his office. 

Thanks, Don. Michael.   

Dadgummit, you learn something new every day.  I never knew that, but it makes a ton of sense, if you know the area around Foxboro; it's kind of in the middle of nowhere, relatively speaking and there's only a few decent ways into and out of the stadium.  Knowing that Kraft also owns a ton of the real estate around the stadium explains a LOT. 

[TAC]

Yeah, a parking LOT.







sorry...

[KevShmev]

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/ticketmaster-cancels-public-sale-taylor-swift-tour-citing-high-demand-rcna57758

This is unheard of. Could this actually be the start of a chain of events that brings TM and Live Nation down?  Or is this just wishful thinking?

[HOF]

The funny part is that the tweet read like they were cancelling the whole tour.