Author Topic: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?  (Read 1935 times)

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Online MirrorMask

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What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« on: September 24, 2018, 12:29:42 PM »
Some food for thought. Imagine this scenario: DT take a page (not literally) from Iron Maiden's 2010 first leg of their tour, where they completely discarded the majority of their classics to focus on only the reunion albums, saving the older songs for the end of the show and the encore. Now they decide it's time for a bold statement, they've given us Images and Words in full, the tour before that, not counting The Astonishing of course, had half Awake and a Scenes suite, so for now, they're gonna focus on the current era of the band.

Imagine the setlist for the new tour - there's a possibility they won't do another Evening With show and go on a normal headline tour with another band from the label as support - is shaped somehow like this:

- A lot of songs off DT14
- A suite for The Astonishing songs (Indulge myself, I know it won't happen, they even discarded it mid-I&WAB tour)
- Finally, Surrender to Reason off the self titled, and maybe Behind the Veil which was played only on a short summer tour
- Outrcy and the Mangini era classic Breaking All Illusion to close the main set

As balance, the encore is made up of older songs fans clamor to hear, let's say they open the encore with The Glass Prison, then they play, dunno, Only A Matter of Time or Panick Attack or Peruvian Skies, something that gets the crowd going, and they end the show with Home, big epic off one of their most revered albums.

Would you enjoy something like that? it doesn't have to be so literal, take the general idea - most, if not everything, of the main set is dedicated to the Mangini albums, and the older songs, especially some fan favorites, are saved for the encore or with a minimal representation in the main set. How about that?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2018, 12:35:42 PM »
I would be just fine with that.  Realistically, I think we could expect at least a couple of pre-Maingini songs in the main set.  But either way, I wouldn't care.  I think some of their strongest material came after Mangini was part of the band.
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Offline Kattelox

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2018, 12:48:14 PM »
I hope it is because I'm tired of hearing James struggle to sing old songs and I want to hear new stuff. A Mangini era-heavy setlist is perfectly fine with me.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2018, 01:18:11 PM »
I hope it is because I'm tired of hearing James struggle to sing old songs and I want to hear new stuff. A Mangini era-heavy setlist is perfectly fine with me.

That's a good point. A lot of MM era stuff is more in his comfort zone nowadays. A song like BAI comes to mind, James nails that song live.

Offline cramx3

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2018, 01:19:42 PM »
I'd be fine with it, but I'd also like an old more rare song to be thrown in there, instead of just the old "classics".   Obviously I would love the Glass Prison and that song I feel would fit the "old more rare song".  But if they are going to do an Evening with format again, then there really is no reason to fit most of the setlist into MM era.

I may be in the minority too, but I'd love for them to find an opener again and have more diversity in the shorter set list each night. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2018, 01:29:25 PM »
The only real downside I see is that it would probably increase the possibility of them playing Breaking All Illusions.  But that song being played is just an unfortunate reality anyway, so no big deal.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2018, 01:31:53 PM »
My only reason to not want them to play BAI is to just play something else for the sake of changing things up.  I've seen that song live a very large amount of times now.  I love it, but I also love changing the setlists.  That song seems to be the staple from the MM era and I think it probably deserves it moreso than any other, but I don't really like staples in DT setlists.

Offline TAC

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2018, 01:33:38 PM »
I have full faith in JP to create a balanced and varied setlist. He's done a great job so far.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2018, 01:48:16 PM »
I have full faith in JP to create a balanced and varied setlist. He's done a great job so far.

And whether he is ultimately successful at doing a "great" job of it on any given tour, to me what is far more important is that he cares so deeply about it to try as hard as he does.  I know I shared on the forum here how absolutely giddy he was about the I&WAB set list when he shared it with me toward the end of The Astonishing tour.  He couldn't wait to see my reaction and to hear from me how he thought fans would react as a whole.  He definitely cares about what people want to hear and does what he thinks will cater to that as much as possible within reasonable parameters.
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Online gzarruk

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2018, 01:52:25 PM »
I wouldn't mind if the next setlist is very MM era heavy, the material is amazing, but some fans wouldn't appeciate that too much, imo :-\
I just want them to let BAI rest for a while, it's been played on every tour since it's debut, excepting the 2015 mini tour and the TA tour.

And I think they should include older songs, but please don't play the same TSCO, AIA and PMU over and over again, instead, they should focus on playing songs they haven't done with this lineup yet.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Online RMGadelha

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2018, 01:59:31 PM »
And I think they should include older songs, but please don't play the same TSCO, AIA and PMU over and over again, instead, they should focus on playing songs they haven't done with this lineup yet.

I want them to play Beyond This Life. I've seen them three times in Brazil so far, but no luck yet to see one of my favorites live.

Online gzarruk

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2018, 02:01:36 PM »
And I think they should include older songs, but please don't play the same TSCO, AIA and PMU over and over again, instead, they should focus on playing songs they haven't done with this lineup yet.

I want them to play Beyond This Life. I've seen them three times in Brazil so far, but no luck yet to see one of my favorites live.

One of my all time favorite DT songs :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2018, 02:13:57 PM »
Will be interesting to see when (or if ever) they will only play Mangini-era pieces live. I'll attend that tour. (apart from that, interesting thread idea)

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2018, 02:18:23 PM »
I have full faith in JP to create a balanced and varied setlist. He's done a great job so far.

I'll agree to that, he really has done a good job mixing old new and rare songs each tour.  I think his only mistake was not adding the Non TA songs to the encore too late.  Maybe it's just because it would have been too hard to pull off each night, but TA was a shorter show than their normal Evening with format, I felt like they could have played all of TA and then came out for TSCO and PMU for every show.  But then again, my second time seeing TA was probably my favorite DT concert I attended, so my complaint is more so for the fans who didn't enjoy the show as much as I did (and from my understanding, those who got the classics encore really enjoyed it).

Offline krands85

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2018, 03:17:41 PM »
If you'd have asked this before the IaW & Beyond tour, I probably wouldn't have been too keen on the idea. That tour finally allowed me to see my 2 favourite songs of all time and my favourite album of all time live, plus ACoS - I'd been a bit unfortunate with missing out on seeing the band playing a lot of my favourite tunes before then.

But now, I wouldn't mind seeing a more Mangini-era set - provided that I really enjoy the new album. I would be surprised if I didn't, but there's always a chance that it just might not click. I would also echo the idea of picking older songs that they haven't played for a while (eg. In the Name of God, The Glass Prison) instead of the likes of TSCO again. And I also agree that it's time BAI had a rest. Best song since Octavarium, but it has been played so much over the last few years and it's quite a large chunk of the set to dedicate to the same song again.
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Online MirrorMask

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2018, 03:20:30 PM »
Yeah Tac, I get what you mean. Two older songs as encore wouldn't have hurt. Otherwise I agree with Bosk about JP doing a great job with setlists and I'm sure that he will do it as well next time.

This thread was just a food for thought, your reaction for a setlist shaped like I said, give or take, song in or song out, like I said:

New song
New song
Surrender to Reason
The Gift of Music
Ravenskill (or just anything else off the album)
Our New World
New song
Outrrcy
New song
Behind the Veil
New song
Breaking All Illusions (or Bridges in the Sky)
=============
The Glass Prison
Panick Attack (or another fan favorite from post Awake and before Black Clouds)
Home

Personally, I would applaud the bold choice. And having an encore of fan favorites, whatever songs you might think may be such a thing (I think we all agree that we want The Glass Prison back), could be a balance to the newer stuff that came before.
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Offline Polarbear

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2018, 05:41:45 AM »
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it's unlikely that they would construct a setlist solely of Mangini era stuff. Way too much history, and songs for them to ignore. And a tour without Pull Me Under is not going to happen. I can't remember if they have had a tour where they didn't perform it. For some people, that is the only song they know from the band, and the only reason they show up into a show!

Having Mangini era material be the focus shouldn't be a problem, provided that they include PMU, and let's say This Dying Soul, Learning to Live and maybe Spirit Carries On

Online MirrorMask

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2018, 05:51:49 AM »
And a tour without Pull Me Under is not going to happen. I can't remember if they have had a tour where they didn't perform it. For some people, that is the only song they know from the band, and the only reason they show up into a show!

They had SEVERAL tours without Pull me Under, Metropolis, or both. Without even going that far back in time, the 2014 tour for the self titled album had no songs from Images and Words AT ALL.
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2018, 05:58:57 AM »
And a tour without Pull Me Under is not going to happen. I can't remember if they have had a tour where they didn't perform it. For some people, that is the only song they know from the band, and the only reason they show up into a show!

They had SEVERAL tours without Pull me Under, Metropolis, or both. Without even going that far back in time, the 2014 tour for the self titled album had no songs from Images and Words AT ALL.
yes largely (except for some dates in Japan and festival appearances if I'm not mistaken. I for one liked not having PMU on that tour (wouldn't have fit in with what they did on that tour IMHO)

Offline Polarbear

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2018, 06:14:35 AM »
And a tour without Pull Me Under is not going to happen. I can't remember if they have had a tour where they didn't perform it. For some people, that is the only song they know from the band, and the only reason they show up into a show!

They had SEVERAL tours without Pull me Under, Metropolis, or both. Without even going that far back in time, the 2014 tour for the self titled album had no songs from Images and Words AT ALL.

Ok, thanks for the clarification! :tup

I've seen them only twice, and last time I saw them was back during the ADTOE days. But I still think it is a bad move for them to go out without PMU, since it is their only hit, and thus represents the band like no other song in their discography.

Online MirrorMask

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2018, 07:05:41 AM »
On the contrary - I think it's an excellent move, carrer wise, to rotate among your "hits" and never having fixed staples tour after tour, that way you don't find yourself in the middle of your carrer with 7 songs you always "have" to play at every damn show.

If they rotate them from the beginning, no song is sacred and fans come to know and accept that. If you play the same classic songs every time, the moment you finally drop one there's an uproar from fans.
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Offline Podaar

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2018, 07:07:15 AM »
I think the time had come. It's a great idea with plenty of excellent music to choose from.

Offline Mosh

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2018, 07:08:57 AM »
The one element of post-Portnoy DT that I have consistently been satisfied with is the setlists. I have no doubt that they will deliver with whatever they come up with. More Mangini era material is fine by me. I'd like to see them give BAI a break, but other than that I'm fine with just about anything.

Have they indicated that the next tour will probably not be in the Evening With format? I was hoping that would become the new standard, but if they get a great opening act it's fine.
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Offline OpenYourEyes311

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2018, 07:40:05 AM »
I'm OK with a Mangini-Era setlist, but I don't think it would be very interesting. I think it's cool to see and hear Mangini tackle different MP-era songs, and there are many many songs they haven't played with MM. But I'll be happy either way, especially if they play Surrender to Reason, Behind the Veil, and/or Far From Heaven.

Online Mladen

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2018, 07:56:37 AM »
I would love a Mangini era heavy set list, although I think the majority of the fan base wouldn't be that crazy about it. I could go for three or four tracks from ADTOE, two from DT12 and a nice streak of four to five songs from The Astonishing, combined with
stuff from the new album and two to three major classics for the encore. That would be fantastic.  :metal

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #25 on: September 25, 2018, 08:09:02 AM »
And a tour without Pull Me Under is not going to happen. I can't remember if they have had a tour where they didn't perform it. For some people, that is the only song they know from the band, and the only reason they show up into a show!

They had SEVERAL tours without Pull me Under, Metropolis, or both. Without even going that far back in time, the 2014 tour for the self titled album had no songs from Images and Words AT ALL.

Yup, I read that and was like no way, I hadn't seen PMU the first handful of times I saw DT and was actually starting to get bummed about not getting a chance to see it.  I'm cool with them dropping that again, but I think they can't do a mostly MM set and not do a couple of the fan favorites from either PMU, Metropolis, TSCO, As I Am.  I mean, I am tired of seeing those all live, but they are songs the common fans likes to see so I can't see them dropping all of them.

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2018, 08:59:47 AM »
As much as I love the "evening with" format, it seems to be SO hard on James.  I suspect we could get more consistently good performances if they went back to having an opener. 
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Offline Lethean

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2018, 09:14:49 AM »
On the contrary - I think it's an excellent move, carrer wise, to rotate among your "hits" and never having fixed staples tour after tour, that way you don't find yourself in the middle of your carrer with 7 songs you always "have" to play at every damn show.

If they rotate them from the beginning, no song is sacred and fans come to know and accept that. If you play the same classic songs every time, the moment you finally drop one there's an uproar from fans.

100% this.  I'm very glad they never locked themselves into having to play PMU or any song at every single show. 

To the OP, I'd have no problems with a heavy Mangini-era setlist, but would also like to see some older songs that haven't been played in a while.

Online gzarruk

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2018, 10:04:35 AM »
As much as I love the "evening with" format, it seems to be SO hard on James.  I suspect we could get more consistently good performances if they went back to having an opener.

This. For James' vocal sake, shorter sets are the way to go.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline nattmorker

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2018, 10:06:32 AM »
As much as I love the "evening with" format, it seems to be SO hard on James.  I suspect we could get more consistently good performances if they went back to having an opener.

This. For James' vocal sake, shorter sets are the way to go.

They could also add more instrumentals into the setlist.
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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2018, 10:33:22 AM »
About the older songs, there's lots of them they haven't played yet with this lineup, so here I made a list of all songs they HAVEN'T played live with MM. I'll include a  :tdwn with the songs I don't think they'll ever play live again or that I personally don't want them to play again :biggrin:

WDADU:
Status Seeker :tdwn
The Killing Hand
Light Fuse and Get Away :tdwn
The Ones Who Help to Set The Sun :tdwn
Only a Matter of Time

Awake:
Innocence Faded :tdwn
Erotomania
Voices

FII:
New Millenium :tdwn
You Not Me :tdwn
Hollow Years
Lines in the Sand
Take Away My Pain :tdwn
Just Let Me Breathe :tdwn
Ana Lee :tdwn

SFAM:
Regression :tdwn
Beyond This Life
Through Her Eyes
Home
One Last Time

SDOIT:
The Glass Prison
Blind Faith
Misunderstood
Disappear
Overture :tdwn
Goodnight Kiss
Solitary Shell
About to Crash (Reprise)
Losing Time/Grand Finale

TOT:
This Dying Soul :tdwn
Honor Thy Father :tdwn
Vacant
Stream of Consciousness
In The Name of God

Octavarium:
The Answer Lies Within
I Walk Beside You :tdwn
Never Enough :tdwn
Sacrificed Sons
Octavarium

SC:
In The Presence of Enemies (both parts)
Repentance :tdwn
Prophets of War :tdwn
The Ministry of Lost Souls

BC&SL:
A Nightmare to Remember
A Rite of Passage
The Best of Times :tdwn

DT12:
False Awakening Suite :tdwn
Surrender to Reason

Others:
Another Won :tdwn
Your Majesty :tdwn
A Vision :tdwn
Two Far :tdwn
Vital Star :tdwn
March of the Tyrant :tdwn
Eve :tdwn
Raise The Knife
Where Are You Now? :tdwn
The Way it Used to Be :tdwn
Cover My Eyes :tdwn
Speak to Me :tdwn
Raw Dog

There's plenty of material for them to choose.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2018, 10:42:43 AM »
I really hope you are wrong about these, especially the bolded ones:
I'll include a  :tdwn with the songs I don't think they'll ever play live again or that I personally don't want them to play again :biggrin:

...
Status Seeker :tdwn
Light Fuse and Get Away :tdwn
New Millenium :tdwn
Take Away My Pain :tdwn
This Dying Soul :tdwn
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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #32 on: September 25, 2018, 10:48:49 AM »
I really hope you are wrong about these, especially the bolded ones:
I'll include a  :tdwn with the songs I don't think they'll ever play live again or that I personally don't want them to play again :biggrin:

...
Status Seeker :tdwn
Light Fuse and Get Away :tdwn
New Millenium :tdwn
Take Away My Pain :tdwn
This Dying Soul :tdwn

Well, they can play whatever they want, so I might be completely wrong :lol but let me explain:

SS: Never been a popular song from WDADU, last time they played it was for the anniversary show, same with LFAGA.
NM: James hates the song, so it won't get played.
TAMP: I love it, but they haven't played it since the FII tour. It seems they just don't want to play it anymore.
TDS: This one would take too much time on the setlist and it's not one of their best songs/fan favorites (opposed to TGP, for example).
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #33 on: September 25, 2018, 11:01:49 AM »
SS: Never been a popular song from WDADU, last time they played it was for the anniversary show, same with LFAGA.

Yes, I know.  And to be honest, I think you are right.  But I subjectively like it, and I think it comes across better live than on album.  I would love to actually see it in person.  Same with LFAGA (but of the two, I would more prefer SS because it is shorter and easier to work into a set).

NM: James hates the song, so it won't get played.

I could be wrong, but I think "hates" is overstating it.  I think he doesn't particularly care for it, but does not actively dislike it.  But I could be wrong.  Honestly, I guess I wouldn't be heartbroken if they didn't play it again, since I have seen it in person, and we have a great version of the album arrangement on L@B and the incredible CIANM on LSFNY.

TAMP: I love it, but they haven't played it since the FII tour. It seems they just don't want to play it anymore.

I don't think it is an issue of "want."  I mean, I haven't spoken to them about it, so I'm speculating a bit.  But if I had to guess, I think JP is quite fond of it and would play it if given a chance.  And I think Jordan would happily go along with that as well.  I think (and, again, I'm guessing just a bit) that they don't play it simply because (1) there is only so much time in a given set that they want to dedicate to "ballads" or softer songs, and they usually have a couple on whatever their most recent album is, so those newer ones get favored, and (2) it isn't one that probably gets a strong audience reaction.  But I really do hope they give this song a last go-around.  It's a great song and deserves to be played.  I would love to see it in person.  And, to me, it is VASTLY superior to any "ballad" they have ever done in the Portnoy era of the band other than Vacant and Disappear.

TDS: This one would take too much time on the setlist and it's not one of their best songs/fan favorites (opposed to TGP, for example).

Yeah, both are fair points.  But as to the song length, it is long, but I don't think it is prohibitively so.  They have regularly played songs with that approximate running time.  I don't think that would be an issue in and of itself.  And as to "fan favorites," while they do take that into consideration, it has never kept them from playing something unless they felt that the fan base actively disliked or was really indifferent to a song.  I remember it getting a pretty good reaction on the TOT tour.  And the band likes playing their heavier songs.  I could actually see this making an appearance in the future.  And while it is far from one of my favorites, I would love to see it again live because it is really quite good in a live setting.
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Re: What if the next tour is Mangini-era heavy?
« Reply #34 on: September 25, 2018, 11:30:55 AM »
As much as I love the "evening with" format, it seems to be SO hard on James.  I suspect we could get more consistently good performances if they went back to having an opener.

This. For James' vocal sake, shorter sets are the way to go.

They could also add more instrumentals into the setlist.
I'm voting for Stream of consciousness, James would have a terrific break.  :lol