Author Topic: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?  (Read 4775 times)

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Offline MirrorMask

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Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« on: September 05, 2018, 08:21:19 AM »
With all the money going around in the world, and exagerate and ludicrous amounts of money in the pockets of multi billionaires, do you think that it could be calculated how much money one could realistically need, or wealth is too much subjective to determine what constitutes "too much" for everyone?

What I mean is: say that I'm a world class footballer of the most paid actor or I invent the new Amazon / Whatsapp and I start to sweat, piss and sh!t money faster than I could count. Once I have the house I want (add a second house at the favorite vacation spot and one for the parents), the car I want, and I travel wherever I want... what more do I need?

I get the sensation that people who are "too much" rich, if such a thing can exist and be calculated, at a certain point have to "throw away" their money, because they don't know what else to do with it.

There are many retired athletes that open shops or restaurants... was that always their childhood dream, derailed because they happen to find out they're good at kicking a ball or swinging a bat, or they're just like "My agent told me to invest my money, I guess a restaurant could be fun, here's some money, now pay some people to run it and bring me back the revenue"?

Even charity feels sometimes as an afterthought. Anyone doing actual charity work is to be praised, but I think that ultra rich people do it just because they can, with a mindset of "Well, I have more money I can spend in two lifetimes... I have already three houses... whatever, I'm not a selfish person, guess I could spare some cash to help troubled kids or something".

There could be an objective way to measure what is affordable if you're rich, and what is simply too much? if you're into movies and you have all the money you need, it's fine to set up in your house a state of the art giant panel and an equally expensive audio system. You enjoy movies and TV series so you watch them with an amazing visual and audio experience. But do you really "need" to build your own cinema as big as the actual theatre where you'd go to see the movies? you like swimming, fine, get a nice pool, do you really "need" the pool to be as long as the Suez canal just because you can? if any of us DT fans become rich beyond belief, couldn't we just buy front row tickets to their shows? wouldn't inviting personally the band at our own private birthday party and pay for the stage setup in our background be just overkill, and a waste of money for the sole reason that said pile of money is there available?
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2018, 08:39:21 AM »
In terms of what my state and local municipality takes from me, yes.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2018, 08:52:03 AM »
Certainly people can have far more money than I think is reasonable or could even begin to imagine spending. And I do think the growing gap between the ultra wealthy and the average Joe is concerning. But I'm not really sure there's anything practical to do about it. People who invent things or start companies deserve all the money their invention or company earns them. Same with athletes or actors, they make gobs of money for their team or studio and deserve a large share of it.

So, yes, I think people can have "too much" money than is probably good for them or for society as a whole. But I really don't think there's anything that can or should be done about it other than making sure they pay their share of taxes.

Offline Chino

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2018, 08:53:52 AM »
This thread is going to get political really fast.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 08:55:33 AM »
I think it depends on whether or not you like your kids. In my case I'd need enough to be comfortable and travel to shows for the next 5-20 years. If I had a wife and 9 kids I'd want a lot more to provide for them. Assholes like Gene Simmons and Andrew Fucking Lloyd Webber, who will give their money to anybody but their kids, are a completely different thing, but I can't really begrudge them earning whatever they want.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2018, 09:01:20 AM »
You talk about "too much" being more than they need. But how much do we need? Not a lot.

So even by that standard, non-billionaires, most of them have "too much" because they don't need multiple homes, etc.

But I don't like that definition of too much cause it reduces everyone to the bare minimums or makes it so subjective that it doesn't exist.

Too much is when it becomes a burden, in my opinion. When the amount of money you have is causing you more problems than it is good things, then I'd say it's too much.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2018, 09:04:13 AM »
It's not for anyone to say except about yourself.   Who am I to say whether Mark Cuban has "too much money"?  If he wants to buy A BMW with cash, maybe.  If he wants to buy BMW with cash, maybe not.

And I'll go there:   the "income gap" is a construct intended to foment discord.  It has no practical application other than to create envy and provide a (false) rationale for certain economic policies.   It's ugly, no doubt, but it's not meaningful.    The income of Americans is not a zero sum game.   Jeff Bezos making $1.00 this year or making $1,000,000 this year does not directly impact the income of even one other American citizen (or world citizen for that matter).   

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2018, 09:27:41 AM »
Yeah, of course if we go the "too much" route, having a roof over the head is already enough for everyone.

I was thinking more along the lines of how you can actually enjoy all the things money can buy. You get a super fancy house overlooking Central Park in NY, but you also love San Francisco and you buy a villa with view over the Golden Gate... well, you still have to live here or there, you have to move around several months per year to actually enjoy the houses you actually own.

Same for cars, sure, you always liked cars, now you're showered with money, fine, get 10 Ferraris and 20 Rolls Royce... you still have to drive them all, and you can drive one car at once only, what's the point in having a Ferrari in your garage at the San Francisco villa if you're spending almost all the year in your penthouse in New York?

That's what I meant also with my example about a nice audio / video system vs owning a theatre. You don't "need" a gigantic Oled screen, but if you're into movies, having a nice big screen in your entertainment room has a practical purpouse, you actually enjoy to the best levels money can buy something that you're into. Having a lifesize replica of the theatre where you usually go to see movies falls into the "Only because you can" scenario for me.

I was not suggesting that there should be a political way to intecept just the "surplus" of money, but only if there could possibly be some objective ways to quantify the point where you start to throw away money, and what could be objectively grouped into the "Only because you can" category.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2018, 10:21:00 AM »
I was thinking more along the lines of how you can actually enjoy all the things money can buy.
If that was your intent, then yes, I certainly think you can have more money than you can enjoy in a practical sense. But everyone is different. It may be meaningful and valuable to multi-billionaire #1 to know he owns 25 different luxury properties around the world. Multi-billionaire #2 may get intense joy out of drinking a crazy expensive scotch while looking out over his massive collection of expensive cars even though he never drives them. It nearly impossible for me as an typical middle class American to understand how a person could enjoy that much money, but I'm sure they have ways.

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2018, 10:37:08 AM »
While I understand that being that rich is something that this person will never spend and I could ever understand, that person earned it.   You have to do some hard work to get to that point.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2018, 10:45:03 AM »
You have to do some hard work to get to that point.

Not true at all. Could have been one of your relatives/ancestors.
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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2018, 11:06:24 AM »
You have to do some hard work to get to that point.

Not true at all. Could have been one of your relatives/ancestors.

So lets pick out the minority not the majority?  Bad argument.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 11:16:11 AM »
Eh, yeah, sorry about that. Just pointing out it isn't an absolute.

Yes if you are amazingly wealthy you probably worked very hard to achieve that (and had a dash or two of good luck sprinkled in). Unless you are a progressive, in which case hard work had nothing to do with it.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 11:23:56 AM »
Eh, yeah, sorry about that. Just pointing out it isn't an absolute.

Yes if you are amazingly wealthy you probably worked very hard to achieve that (and had a dash or two of good luck sprinkled in). Unless you are a progressive, in which case hard work had nothing to do with it.
Bait much?

(That's bait with an I--I don't want to know about the TE variety)
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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 11:36:05 AM »
 :lol

I just think "most" work hard for their money and only a small amount "Cough, President, cough" are born to it.  Do I think they should be taxed more.  Yup.  I'm middle class and I take it on the chin every day.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2018, 11:39:40 AM »
I was thinking more along the lines of how you can actually enjoy all the things money can buy.
If that was your intent, then yes, I certainly think you can have more money than you can enjoy in a practical sense. But everyone is different. It may be meaningful and valuable to multi-billionaire #1 to know he owns 25 different luxury properties around the world. Multi-billionaire #2 may get intense joy out of drinking a crazy expensive scotch while looking out over his massive collection of expensive cars even though he never drives them. It nearly impossible for me as an typical middle class American to understand how a person could enjoy that much money, but I'm sure they have ways.

But some of MirrorMask's premises are not accurate; you don't "move" from NY to SF.  You have houses, furnished, with your shit in both places.  You have breakfast in New York, you see the beautiful sunrise, and you drive your Ferrari to Teterboro, get on your Gulfstream IV, you're in San Francisco in five hours, with time change, in  time for a dinner at the Embarcadero.   If that's how someone wants to live their life, who are we to say otherwise? 

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2018, 11:40:59 AM »
Bait much?

(That's bait with an I--I don't want to know about the TE variety)

Not that often, I hope :)

What does TE mean, other than the football position?

I also believe "they" should be taxed more. But I am equally hesitant about believing the government will use that increase in revenue wisely.
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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2018, 11:53:20 AM »
Of course they won't.  Government already mishandles so much.  I see that in a smaller microcosm at the Wal Mart DC I work at.  I ask specifically for help, the Op's manager send instructions out and one hand doesn't talk to the other and I'm constantly going back to their management asking why isn't what we talked about being implemented?
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2018, 01:03:46 PM »
Bait much?

(That's bait with an I--I don't want to know about the TE variety)

Not that often, I hope :)

What does TE mean, other than the football position?
It was referring to the baTE version of the two homophonic verbs.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2018, 02:21:49 PM »
I think its relative. Two different people could have two very different ideas about what too much is.

For me, I make enough to survive and not worry about living paycheck to paycheck. So In my mind, I have just the right amount of money. But boy oh boy, if you talk to some of the other people in my department, they act like they are broke and starving on the streets. They also are people that go out and buy lavish cars, houses, and expensive handbags/jewelry which they really can't afford, so there you go.
 

Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2018, 02:32:30 PM »
There is rich and there is wealthy. While for the former you could envision a limit to desires and satisfaction, in the latter's case money is a living working travelling entity, strongly involved in the world and the wealth of nations. At that stage how can you determine what is too much?

I don't know whether there's something as too much money, but I'm damn sure there is way too much debt.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2018, 02:34:37 PM »
ANY debt is "too much debt."
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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2018, 02:51:13 PM »
I agree. A honest not polemic dilemma springs to mind though. If any debt is too much debt, is any money made off debt too much money?

That's probably a sophism but I find it fascinating.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2018, 02:52:19 PM »
That's not true. Carrying debt allows us to afford our homes, and more often than not our cars. Having debt - and managing it properly! - is good for our credit score. For many it allows us to obtain a higher level of education.

Most people don't manage their debt well, and extend themselves too far with it.


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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2018, 02:54:15 PM »
And saving up and paying cash for any of those things is FAR superior than going into debt for them.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2018, 03:01:52 PM »
And saving up and paying cash for any of those things is FAR superior than going into debt for them.

True, but most people do not have the means to do that.

Had my wife and I been forced to save "cash" to buy our house outright, we'd still be saving to this day (12 years after we bought it). In this day and age, debt is a way of life, unless you are independently wealthy, or you have inherited some sort of wealth that enables you to "get ahead." But there is a difference between irresponsible debt, and debt taken on to achieve a goal or goals, and the means to repay that debt in a timely and fair manner.

Without my education debt, I couldn't have gone to college and law school (and I'll be paying that until I am 62). Without those degrees, I likely would not have been able to have the job I have, and ultimately purchase a home, which required another debt (mortgage), which will be paid in 19 years (counting every second). As long as debt is taken on responsibly, it is not "bad."

Credit card debt, amassed when people live above their means, is another story entirely. That debt is VERY bad. And with all the stuff today on autopay through a credit card, and bonus points for this and that, people charge everything, and then realize at the end of the month they went over by 500 bucks. Then that 500 becomes a 1000 next month, etc., etc. That's the trap right there. And the only way to avoid it is to not carry a card that allows you to carry a balance, or, simply have the discipline to know how much money you can spend, and stick to it.

And it is ridiculously difficult to do. We do it, and inevitably, there are still six months out of the year we go over what we should, and I need to adjust to make sure we don't carry a balance (I refuse to be in CC debt). But it has gotten harder over the years, with the ease of purchasing.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2018, 03:02:37 PM »
Well yes, but there is a difference between good/bad and better/lesser.

I am in debt to the lender on my house, but I consider it worthwhile as it provides a solid, stable home for my children, one I could never save up for and live in this area (median house price in this county $485,000). I carry the banner for "live where you can afford to live" so by that I should move, but the downside of the mortgage debt is heavily outweighed by my wife's job and our proximity to family.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2018, 03:12:28 PM »
I strongly disagree with both of you, but I'm not going to argue and try to convince you otherwise.  I will just say that there are absolutely ways to accomplish all of those things without debt, other than perhaps the initial house purchase (and even that can be paid off WAY early with some serious effort).
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2018, 03:18:12 PM »
If we can somewhat agree that a home purchase can be disregarded for the purpose of this discussion, I don't think you and I are that far off. It really should be in its own category of "purchases."

Also, working with real estate investors I see the value in leveraging debt to produce profits, provided you have a solid business model (something I am growing unsure of with my employers...)
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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2018, 03:25:31 PM »
And saving up and paying cash for any of those things is FAR superior than going into debt for them.

What do you do as you save that $175,000 for a house?  Pay rent for ten years?  There's no equity being built there; no tax benefits of any kind.   The debt, at reasonable interest rates, is a far better financial decision than paying someone else to make money off you. 

There's nothing inherently wrong with debt; the problem is most people don't adequately handle debt, or don't properly account for it (myself included; I wish I was perfect, but I'm not). 

And we haven't even gone into the discussion about when you're likely to move out after the closing costs are accounted for but before the mortgage is paid off.   There's a point at which homeownership (and less often, less frequently, car ownership) is properly considered "playing with other people's money".  There's a risk component to owning assets like houses and cars that doesn't properly get accounted for when saying that cash purchases are "always" better.

Offline Adami

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #30 on: September 05, 2018, 03:27:35 PM »
I just want to say that if ANYONE feels they have too much money, I would be more than happy to....selflessly, of course....alleviate them of that burden.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2018, 03:33:26 PM »
I just want to say that if ANYONE feels they have too much money, I would be more than happy to....selflessly, of course....alleviate them of that burden.
Dude, you're a psychologist, for fuck's sake! What do you think you've been training to do?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2018, 03:34:47 PM »
I just want to say that if ANYONE feels they have too much money, I would be more than happy to....selflessly, of course....alleviate them of that burden.
Dude, you're a psychologist, for fuck's sake! What do you think you've been training to do?

I meant now! I'm not a psychologist yet. Doctor next year, licensed psychologist the year after (inshallah). So, for the moment, I need all that extra unnecessary money that is hurting other people. I'm just trying to help others.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2018, 03:38:12 PM »
If we can somewhat agree that a home purchase can be disregarded for the purpose of this discussion, I don't think you and I are that far off. It really should be in its own category of "purchases."

No, I think we really ARE kinda far off.  :lol  I wouldn't agree that a home purchase should be "disregarded."  I think going into debt for a home is unequivocally a bad idea.  Unfortunately, the way our economy is structured, it is nearly impossible to make an initial home purchase with cash for the vast majority of us.  But the fact that it is a nearly-necessary evil doesn't make it any less evil.  (and, yeah, we probably actually AREN'T that far apart on that)

Also, working with real estate investors I see the value in leveraging debt to produce profits, provided you have a solid business model (something I am growing unsure of with my employers...)

I don't.  "Leveraging debt" is just as dangerous as other debt "strategies."  Not paying interest to a bank means keeping more of your income in the first place, which enables you to save and invest more.  Which in turn stands to generate a higher net worth than any debt leveraging could.

What do you do as you save that $175,000 for a house? 

Wow, where can you get a house for only $175k?  :lol

There's a risk component to owning assets like houses and cars that doesn't properly get accounted for when saying that cash purchases are "always" better.

The model you are advocating for does not treat either of those as assets.  If you are in debt for them and they are not generating income, they are, by definition, liabilities.  But in any case, that "risk component" is what insurance is for.  And since insurance on both of those items is mandatory in our country, that takes it out of the equation whether you own or are in debt.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Do you think there's something as "too much money"?
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2018, 04:04:28 PM »
If we can somewhat agree that a home purchase can be disregarded for the purpose of this discussion, I don't think you and I are that far off. It really should be in its own category of "purchases."

No, I think we really ARE kinda far off.  :lol  I wouldn't agree that a home purchase should be "disregarded."  I think going into debt for a home is unequivocally a bad idea.  Unfortunately, the way our economy is structured, it is nearly impossible to make an initial home purchase with cash for the vast majority of us.  But the fact that it is a nearly-necessary evil doesn't make it any less evil.  (and, yeah, we probably actually AREN'T that far apart on that)

Fair enough. I need to provide a home for my kids. Locally, I can pay an $x/mo cash to rent a place, or a $y/mo mortgage to own a place that is an asset (even if I don't own it free and clear it still has value and can be sold for gains). I opted for the latter because it makes both financial and pragmatic sense to me. If developers and builders only paid with cash, there wouldn't be any homes, condos, or apartments for people to live in.

"Necessary evil?" Don't like the term, maybe it applies here, will have to think on it.

Also, working with real estate investors I see the value in leveraging debt to produce profits, provided you have a solid business model (something I am growing unsure of with my employers...)

I don't.  "Leveraging debt" is just as dangerous as other debt "strategies."  Not paying interest to a bank means keeping more of your income in the first place, which enables you to save and invest more.  Which in turn stands to generate a higher net worth than any debt leveraging could.

At this point it's a numbers game and not worth the getting in to the minutiae. There is a point where paying interest and leveraging debt to generate profit outweighs whatever gains could be made with cash on hand.

On topic.... yes wealth is too subjective for anyone to determine what is "too much" or who has "too much." And while I may think someone may have "too much" I am not ready to consider it appropriate for anyone else to do anything about someone having "too much."
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