Author Topic: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.  (Read 5116 times)

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Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2018, 06:36:36 PM »
The part I found interesting was when I clicked on Petrucci's name and got a list of all songs (mostly DT, obviously) on which he is credited as a writer.  All of the current and former members of DT are members of ASCAP, except for JR and DS.  For songs on which JR or DS has a writing credit, it lists a "percentage controlled by ASCAP," from which you can deduce the percentage assigned to JR or DS (as the only non-ASCAP artist).  The numbers on a couple songs were a little surprising to me.
Didn't pay attention to that when I was looking at the different credits, but I did find it a bit strange that some songs listed the credits differently from what is printed in the album jacket/sleeve. For instance, WFS is KM's song, but JM, JP and MP are also given credit for it. For Vacant, only JM and JR are given credit, despite the fact that JL wrote the lyrics. And FFH has JM in the credits with JP and JR, whereas the album lists it as JL, JP and JR. I mean, I understand for some albums they were probably more democratic in giving every band member a cut of the songwriting, but some of these just seem a bit weird. Nevermind YNM which has 2 separate entries, one listing Desmond Child along with JM, JP, MP and DS, whereas the other lists just Desmond Child and JP - and yet the credit for YoM (the original version of the song) is credited to JM, JP, MP and DS. What gives?  :huh:

I think for business reasons the band occasionally reassigns writing credits.  For instance, Charlie used to receive publishing credit for Bombay Vindaloo, but I'm not sure that is still the case. Perhaps this was a token share to make up for Charlie not being credited on Metropolis, for which Charlie arguably might have made some early contributions. 

It's possible that additional writers were added to Wait For Sleep after the full band accompaniment version debuted live (and was featured in Live in Tokyo '93).  And as a trade-off for adding JP, JM and MP, they could have given KM credit on Cover My Eyes - a song which he obliviously did not write-- this is speculation, but it is also common business practice.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2018, 10:55:06 PM »
Charlie used to receive publishing credit for Bombay Vindaloo

No wonder he went back to selling cars, with those royalties from Bombay Vindaloo no longer coming in.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2018, 06:07:44 AM »
Another very trivial consideration: we're all so used now to think of "James LaBrie" that by now we all have forgotten that he's actually Kevin to his family and closest, longtime friends.

Can we assume that even the guys in the band got used to call him James rather than Kevin? they presented him as such, to avoid confusion they talk about him as James in interviews, do you think they just told from day one "Ok, we'll call you James" or maybe in private they address him by his first name?
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Offline noxon

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2018, 08:35:10 AM »
I've never heard any of them say anything other than James.
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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2018, 09:01:32 AM »
Even James refers to himself as James, not Kevin :lol
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #75 on: October 13, 2018, 09:16:18 AM »
Even James refers to himself as James, not Kevin :lol

I wonder if he would even turn around if someone (at a meet n' greet or in a situation where he's known to be DT's singer) would call him Kevin :D
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Offline noxon

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #76 on: October 13, 2018, 09:38:45 AM »
I did actually have a fun little interaction regarding the "Kevin" thing in my interview with James:

https://youtu.be/6IfuMAzw96s?t=376
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #77 on: October 13, 2018, 10:06:21 AM »
Another fun thing about it is how the reason for his name change stopped to be an issue pretty soon.

DT: "Hey dude, you're great and all, but we have already two Johns in the band. If we have two Kevins, it's gonna be a mess, you should go by your middle name."
Kevin James: "Well, ok, seems reasonable, I'll be James LaBrie then".
[three years later: Kevin Moore leaves]
Kevin James: FFS

Which brings us to another factoid: Kevin 1 and Kevin 2 are the members of DT that spent the least time together in the band. Second would be Derek with the rest of the guys. Mangini has now more time in the band than Derek and with James personally, and if you only count the recording years (1989-1994), has surpassed Kevin Moore's tenure in the band.
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #78 on: October 13, 2018, 10:12:45 AM »
Even James refers to himself as James, not Kevin :lol

I wonder if he would even turn around if someone (at a meet n' greet or in a situation where he's known to be DT's singer) would call him Kevin :D

I think I remember an interview where he said when he's back home people still call him Kevin.  I mean, I think he and his wife have been together since high school so it's not like she's just going to start calling someone James she's known as Kevin for 10 years or however long. 

I remember back in the day watching an MTV thing on Marilyn Manson and it showed him at the airport and the person at the desk was calling him "Mr. Warner." It was odd but I guess that's how it goes.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #79 on: October 13, 2018, 10:33:10 AM »
Yeah, like someone calling out for "Vinnie" and then Alice Cooper turns around :lol
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2018, 12:19:27 PM »
I have a friend who met Alice with her dad and kind of being a smartass he said, "Hey Vinnie!" and Alice laughed and said, "Only my parents call me Vinnie!"

Afterall, his name is legally Alice Cooper and has been since the mid 70s. 

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2018, 09:05:12 PM »
Where did you hear JLB came up with the post-chorus for BMUBMD?

And ya know, even if all he contributed was some vocal melodies here and there for everything post I&W, that is still "writing," and he never ever made it sound like he was the main songwriter for any song.

Go to Mullmuzzler's "Afterlife" at 4:00.. Ok, that's the chorus.. The section after it feels very similar to the one after the chorus in BMUBMD.. The vibe is the same, it repeats the song name and has some time signature changes that are carried with the voice, unlike most of DT regular stuff.. Also, unlike most of DT stuff, it doesn't sound very "musical" (or melodic), or something that JR or JP would do for that matter..

Another completely useless setlist detail: the band has only performed Through My Words once without continuing on to Fatal Tragedy.

And one last one: the Columbia, MD show in 2009 marked the first time since the WDaDU-era that no IaW songs were included in the setlist; it was also the first show to only feature Rudess-era songs.

Great setlist's factoids Scotty!..

I did actually have a fun little interaction regarding the "Kevin" thing in my interview with James:

https://youtu.be/6IfuMAzw96s?t=376

:lol 9:08 (also, I don't remember having watched that video, but judging by my comment there, I did :|)

another factoid: Kevin 1 and Kevin 2 are the members of DT that spent the least time together in the band. Second would be Derek with the rest of the guys. Mangini has now more time in the band than Derek and with James personally, and if you only count the recording years (1989-1994), has surpassed Kevin Moore's tenure in the band.

That's a nice detail too, but you're forgetting about Charlie!.. :lol He'd be second along with DS I guess?.. More or less..
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Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2018, 09:37:38 PM »
Where did you hear JLB came up with the post-chorus for BMUBMD?

And ya know, even if all he contributed was some vocal melodies here and there for everything post I&W, that is still "writing," and he never ever made it sound like he was the main songwriter for any song.

Go to Mullmuzzler's "Afterlife" at 4:00.. Ok, that's the chorus.. The section after it feels very similar to the one after the chorus in BMUBMD.. The vibe is the same, it repeats the song name and has some time signature changes that are carried with the voice, unlike most of DT regular stuff.. Also, unlike most of DT stuff, it doesn't sound very "musical" (or melodic), or something that JR or JP would do for that matter..



That's interesting and I appreciate you pointing that out but is that all you're going off of?  I don't think that necessarily means James came up with the post-chorus on BMUBMD

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2018, 01:09:43 AM »
another factoid: Kevin 1 and Kevin 2 are the members of DT that spent the least time together in the band. Second would be Derek with the rest of the guys. Mangini has now more time in the band than Derek and with James personally, and if you only count the recording years (1989-1994), has surpassed Kevin Moore's tenure in the band.

That's a nice detail too, but you're forgetting about Charlie!.. :lol He'd be second along with DS I guess?.. More or less..

Damn, I totally forgot about Charlie indeed  :facepalm: :D

At least Charlie has a tie with all the other guys of the first lineup. LaBrie and Moore's presence at the same time in the band is indeed the single shortest one without a tie with the other members.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2018, 04:32:19 AM »
So, I got an itch to do this and went and checked properly, tell me if I've done something wrong and I will update the list.

This is how much the band members spent time together in the band, let's cut the guys a break and let's count 1985 as the starting year of the band, since all those anniversaries that followed were based on 1985:

John Petrucci and John Myung = 33 years
John Petrucci, John Myung and James LaBrie = 27 years
Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci and John Myung = 25 years
Jordan Rudess and John Petrucci, John Myung and James LaBrie = 19 years
Mike Portnoy and James LaBrie = 19 years
Mike Portnoy and Jordan Rudess = 11 years
Kevin Moore and John Petrucci, John Myung and Mike Portnoy = 9 years
Mike Mangini and John Petrucci, John Myung, James LaBrie and Jordan Rudess = 7 years
Derek Sherinian and John Petrucci, John Myung, James LaBrie and Mike Portnoy = 4 years
Kevin Moore and James LaBrie = 3 years
Charlie Dominici and John Petrucci, John Myung, Kevin Moore and Mike Portnoy = 2 years
Chris Collins and John Petrucci, John Myung, Kevin Moore and Mike Portnoy = 1 year


Should the band be active in 2024, Jordan Rudess will have spent the same time in the band with Petrucci, Myung and LaBrie that Mike Portnoy spent with original founding members John Petrucci and John Myung. If we count the active years, from 1989 onwards, it's already a tie.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 12:32:42 PM by MirrorMask »
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2018, 05:34:35 AM »
I just had a thought that'd be perfect for this thread, so I went ahead & did it.


DT albums sorted by total word count:
TA - 4586
6DOIT - 3321
Awake - 2950
SC - 2877
FII - 2394
SFAM - 2342
OCT - 2088
BC&SL - 2047
TOT - 2014
I&W - 1936
ADTOE - 1860
WD&DU - 1763
DT12 - 1496

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2018, 05:55:20 AM »
Train of Thought with 7 songs, with one being an instrumental and another one being very shorts, beats 4 albums? wow!

It's obvious why The Astonishing and Six Degrees top off the list. I would have never guessed that Awake would "win" out of the single disc albums.

(Did you count also the samples? 'cause Space Dye Vest alone brings the count way up)
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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2018, 07:34:01 AM »
This might be common knowledge for most of you, but I thought I should point this out:

SDOIT has 6 songs (6th album)
TOT has 7 songs (7th album)
Octavarium has 8 songs (8th album)

They stopped the number album titles with OV, but this wasn’t entirely over:

SC has 7 songs (9th album)
BC&SL has 6 songs (10th album)

They started ascending from 6 to 8, and then descending back to 6 from SDOIT through BC&SL. Black Clouds was the last album with MP and had the same amout of songs as SDOIT, which started this progression. In other words: the story ends where it began.

 :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2018, 12:29:30 PM »
@MirrorMask - I think the only one that's missing in the list is "James LaBrie, John Petrucci and John Myung = 27 years".. Other than that, is correct as far as I can tell..

That's interesting and I appreciate you pointing that out but is that all you're going off of?  I don't think that necessarily means James came up with the post-chorus on BMUBMD

No, obviosuly is an assumption, but since my very first listens of BMUBMD and knowing it was one of the three songs credited to James (the other two being FFH, a ballad where his input is easier to deduce, and LNF, where his input is harder to deduce given the long yet cohesive and DT-ish the song is), and having listened to his solo albums and especially that song, I instantly made the connection..

But I guess this would make another great question for James.. How did he participate in the songs he's credited for in the recent albums?.. How was his role in the compositional aspect before Mangini and how is it now?..
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2018, 12:33:07 PM »
You're right, I forgot about those specific three! edited! :tup
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2018, 01:35:17 PM »
I don't see a listing for the FULL lineup with MP.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2018, 03:09:12 PM »
My list was to try and count how much the single members spent time together in the band, not the full lineups. There happens to be a full line-up for Derek listed because he left the band as he found it (minus the keyboard player of course) so the time Derek spent with any band member together in DT is the same time of all the others. MP has to be counted differently because he spent a different time in DT with JP and JM, with KM, with James and finally with Jordan.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2018, 03:31:24 PM by MirrorMask »
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2018, 03:29:56 PM »
(Did you count also the samples? 'cause Space Dye Vest alone brings the count way up)

Yes I did, which is also probably why SC is so high (because of Repentance).

I should also probably mention that I copied & pasted from DarkLyrics, while taking out the song titles & notes that aren't lyrics (writing credits, sample credits, characters, section markers, etc.).

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2018, 05:34:26 PM »
Ok, somehow this has been mentioned before in this thread, but here's another one, very simple:

There's only three songs out of the studio albums that DT has never played live:

-The Best of Times
-False Awakening Suite
-Surrender to Reason
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2018, 06:29:46 PM »
I have nothing to contribute, but I wanted to say that some of these "stupid" DT factoids are really pretty cool.   :hat

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2018, 06:48:31 PM »
Ok, somehow this has been mentioned before in this thread, but here's another one, very simple:

There's only three songs out of the studio albums that DT has never played live:

-The Best of Times
-False Awakening Suite
-Surrender to Reason
Wasn't FAS played at the beginning of every show during the DT12 tour?

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2018, 07:45:08 PM »
Ok, somehow this has been mentioned before in this thread, but here's another one, very simple:

There's only three songs out of the studio albums that DT has never played live:

-The Best of Times
-False Awakening Suite
-Surrender to Reason
Wasn't FAS played at the beginning of every show during the DT12 tour?

This.

& if that "doesn't count", wouldn't that also apply to the nomac tracks?

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2018, 07:57:18 PM »
Ok, somehow this has been mentioned before in this thread, but here's another one, very simple:

There's only three songs out of the studio albums that DT has never played live:

-The Best of Times
-False Awakening Suite
-Surrender to Reason
Wasn't FAS played at the beginning of every show during the DT12 tour?

This.

& if that "doesn't count", wouldn't that also apply to the nomac tracks?

Yep. Also, not from a DT studio album, but Raw Dog hasn't been played live either. All the other DT songs, including leftover songs, b-sides, etc. have been played at least once live.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2018, 09:12:42 PM »
I wanna play!

And now albums sorted by words per minute (rounded to the nearest minute).

Awake - 2950 / 75 = 39
SC - 2877 / 79 = 36
TA - 4586 / 130 35
WD&DU - 1763 / 51 = 35
6DOIT - 3321 / 96 = 35
I&W - 1936 / 57 = 34
FII - 2394 / 78 = 31
SFAM - 2342 / 77 = 30
TOT - 2014 / 69 = 29
OCT - 2088 / 76 = 27
BC&SL - 2047 / 75 = 27
ADTOE - 1860 / 77 = 24
DT12 - 1496 / 68 = 22
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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2018, 10:57:16 PM »
Ok, somehow this has been mentioned before in this thread, but here's another one, very simple:

There's only three songs out of the studio albums that DT has never played live:

-The Best of Times
-False Awakening Suite
-Surrender to Reason
Wasn't FAS played at the beginning of every show during the DT12 tour?

This.

& if that "doesn't count", wouldn't that also apply to the nomac tracks?

Yeah, I knew someone would say that, and that's why I said the band didn't play it.. It was through a mere tape how it was "played" in those shows; not through the regular way..

And no, it's not the same as the nomacs.. FAS is an actual instrumental track, while the nomacs (like the negative times on 8V, Sacrificed Sons' intro or the backward fragment at the beginning of TDoE) are sound effects, and are meant to be played like that..

OTOH, I know FAS was created to be played through a tape for the intro of every show on the AFtR Tour, but is still a legitimate DT song (or instrumental in this case) that they actually recorded with their hands and instruments, and they can easily play it at some point..

tl/dr: DT doesn't do play-back.. :lol
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #100 on: October 16, 2018, 01:02:58 AM »
If we go along that way, the Overture from Six Degrees has never been played live.... by DT.

The only time it was actually performed live, an orchestra played it, not DT.
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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2018, 02:13:00 AM »
If we go along that way, the Overture from Six Degrees has never been played live.... by DT.

The only time it was actually performed live, an orchestra played it, not DT.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/dream-theater/2002/rodon-club-athens-greece-bd6cde2.html

I found some setlists from the tour supporting Six Degrees, and it seems like the whole suite was performed on that tour!
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2018, 02:21:18 AM »
Yes, but the Overture was played over the PA, DT came in only for About to Crash.
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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2018, 07:29:06 AM »
Yes, but the Overture was played over the PA, DT came in only for About to Crash.

Why would they do that? Is it not possible to play this on stage? Too many instruments/overdubs?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Stupid Dream Theater factoids.
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2018, 07:30:35 AM »
Yes, but the Overture was played over the PA, DT came in only for About to Crash.

Why would they do that? Is it not possible to play this on stage? Too many instruments/overdubs?

Yea, it's hugely layered. It also gives the band a few minutes to rest up.
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