Author Topic: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents - frenzy and feast  (Read 91566 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1715 on: June 22, 2019, 01:16:24 PM »
Subban trades to New Jersey.....details of trade still unknown but it’s done.

Wow! So glad won’t have to see him play that much anymore. Not because he’s good but because of ‘how’ he plays.

Kind of like how you post in hockey threads.  ;D

Only difference is I’m usually right.
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Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1716 on: June 22, 2019, 02:47:51 PM »
Sounds like Kaspanen is getting 3 years @3.2ish. Seems like a reasonable signing for the Leafs.  Thoughts Jingle?

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1717 on: June 22, 2019, 02:49:07 PM »
Subban is still elite,  so im sure Jersey will tolerate his antics. They'll certainly be an improved team next season just from the moves the last 24 hours. And if the TSN report is correct,  NJ gave up peanuts to get subban.

What they did is take his full cap hit. It's a good move, because they'll unload that money right in the year they need to sign Hughes out of his entry contract.

Carolina did the same for Toronto. Marleau AND a cond'l 1st rounder for a 6th round pick. The ultimate value to Toronto is taking the 6.25M cap hit.

This won't be the last of what I'm calling "Cap trades"

That's a win for the Leafs to get Kapanen at that price. Rumour is Johnsson is signing in the same range.
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Offline axeman90210

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1718 on: June 22, 2019, 04:39:12 PM »
Gotta say I'm pretty damn happy with how the last 24 hours has gone. Jack Hughes + PK Subban is a major talent injection. And the Devils still have more than 20mm in cap space to play around with in free agency and/or the trade market.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1719 on: June 22, 2019, 04:44:31 PM »
Gotta say I'm pretty damn happy with how the last 24 hours has gone. Jack Hughes + PK Subban is a major talent injection. And the Devils still have more than 20mm in cap space to play around with in free agency and/or the trade market.

You should be happy. Devils gonna be good this year. They WILL make the playoffs.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1720 on: June 22, 2019, 04:45:29 PM »
The "bold prediction" was in response to Chad's post above mine.

 :lol

Got it!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1721 on: June 23, 2019, 03:09:40 PM »
William Karlsson re-signs with Vegas...8@ just under $48m. Seems team friendly.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1722 on: June 23, 2019, 07:27:56 PM »
I find it funny that Leafs fans have turned on Marner. Now obviously, I don't know that much about the situation, only that he produced 94 points, kinda disappeared in the playoffs, has played two full seasons back to back and will probably be able to replicate those numbers again. What I gather is he wants what Matthews and Tavares are getting paid, but the Leafs don't have the cap space to do it.

Did they really need to go out and get Tavares last year? That seems to be what is messing them up.

It's just funny to me, from an outside perspective, he deserves to be paid what he's asking for or at least pretty close to it. Why does that make him greedy? Sure, his agent and dad are being dicks, but that shouldn't make Mitch one. There's plenty of other teams that would take 94 points...

Fill me in though on why Marner is wrong in this situation.

Also, the Nylander signing was a dumb move.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1723 on: June 24, 2019, 06:13:13 AM »
As a winger, he's asking for 11% of cap space.  That's far above the going rate.  He (or his agent) is over-valuing himself - vis-a-vis not only the market, but the team.  Matthews and Tavares, as goal-scoring centremen, are more valuable commodities than a play-making winger.  Fans are turning a little sour, because his asks are jeopardizing the teams chances of putting together an improved product on the ice.  Asking for money that would mean the team holds almost 50% of their cap in 4 players, have 3 of the top 5 salaries in the league, and have never made it out of the 1st round.

Based on his stats, the market would value him at a high-9M, low 10M AAV.  He wants to call Matthews as his comparable, but it's apples and oranges.  I honestly believe if Dubas caves and gives him $11M plus, the team will take a step back, and end up a wildcard playoff spot at best.  Look at the Atlantic.  Tampa and Boston aren't going to be getting any worse, and Florida is going to improve bigly.  I don't see that Tavares' contract is screwing things up, Nylander's (he should've been mid-6M) and Marner's asks are doing it.  That's about $1.5M in cap space over-allocated to the two of them.  Pretty valuable when the team needs a reliable backup goalie, and only have 4 of their D under contract at the moment (one of whom wants out).

I said it before, but the market is shifting (because of all these super-talented 21-year old RFAs) to paying younger talent the kind of money that had been reserved for the 28 or 30-year old A-list.  The young players expect to be paid for future/potential performance, while the older ones expect to be paid on past AND potential performance.  They can't have it both ways. The Leafs got caught right in the middle of it - paying $11M for JT, and now staring down the barrel of that for two 21-year olds.  These kids are performing very well, very fast, and want to be compensated for being cheap / entry-level labour for 3 years, and over-delivering.  Well, go thank your union for that.  That's the way things got structured, so suck it the fuck up.  Now, without arbitration rights, they're only card is 'pay me what I want, or I'll hold out'.  It's gonna take one GM with brass balls to sit someone for a year, or this is gonna continue to escalate.

Was Marner's performance better than the $2.5M he was paid - sure it was.  But that's the deal for entry level.  And later in your career, you'll be over-paid for your performance.  Is PK Subban a $9M player?  Will Erik Karlsson be an $11M player when he's 35?  Hell no to both.  As I said, the tide is shifting, and the players want it both ways.  The economics simply don't work for both ends.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1724 on: June 25, 2019, 04:20:27 PM »
A fairly underwhelming HOF class.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1725 on: June 25, 2019, 05:31:30 PM »
A fairly underwhelming HOF class.

I thought the same thing.

Hayley Wickenheiser is a no-brainer.

Serei Zubov?  Meh....

Guy Carbonneau?  He was about halfway through his career when I started following hockey, so I missed his best years.  However, he's been retired for nearly two decades.  If he didn't get in before now, what changed?

Jim Rutherford?  I know who he is, but can't say I know much about him.

Never heard of the other two guys.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1726 on: June 25, 2019, 05:41:47 PM »
Jerry York is the longtime coach at Boston College, I think he's the winningest coach in college hockey history. I think he has 4 or 5 championships and countless Frozen Four appearances. I think he's coached well over 40 years. He's a legit candidate.


I though Guy Carbonneau was excellent, but like you said. What gives now?

But this is the year of "no one else to pick from"..
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1727 on: June 25, 2019, 07:03:26 PM »
I am glad Roenick did not make it again. #Bluesfan :coolio :hat

I think he will eventually, but I will continue to enjoy him missing out...

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1728 on: June 25, 2019, 07:04:56 PM »
Roenick was awesome when he played for Chicago, but I don't see him as a HOFer.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1729 on: June 25, 2019, 07:11:21 PM »
No Cups, no awards.  Seems like in hockey you almost have to have ridiculous stats if your name was never on the Cup and you never won any awards. 

Case in point: Curtis Joseph. He was a great goalie, but he never won a Cup and never won a Vezina (thanks to playing in the same era as the three best goalies ever, plus Belfour), so he will likely never make it.

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1730 on: June 25, 2019, 07:13:55 PM »
I feel like if I had to choose between CuJo and JR, I'd go with CuJo.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1731 on: June 25, 2019, 10:44:59 PM »
I feel like if I had to choose between CuJo and JR, I'd go with CuJo.

That's a no brainer. #5 all time in wins, he should be there. @Kev... who are you including as the 3rd best ever? Hasek?
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Offline romdrums

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1732 on: June 26, 2019, 01:28:16 PM »
I feel like if I had to choose between CuJo and JR, I'd go with CuJo.

That's a no brainer. #5 all time in wins, he should be there. @Kev... who are you including as the 3rd best ever? Hasek?

Roman Turek. ;) ;D
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Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1733 on: June 26, 2019, 01:31:20 PM »
As a winger, he's asking for 11% of cap space.  That's far above the going rate.  He (or his agent) is over-valuing himself - vis-a-vis not only the market, but the team.  Matthews and Tavares, as goal-scoring centremen, are more valuable commodities than a play-making winger.  Fans are turning a little sour, because his asks are jeopardizing the teams chances of putting together an improved product on the ice.  Asking for money that would mean the team holds almost 50% of their cap in 4 players, have 3 of the top 5 salaries in the league, and have never made it out of the 1st round.

Based on his stats, the market would value him at a high-9M, low 10M AAV.  He wants to call Matthews as his comparable, but it's apples and oranges.  I honestly believe if Dubas caves and gives him $11M plus, the team will take a step back, and end up a wildcard playoff spot at best.  Look at the Atlantic.  Tampa and Boston aren't going to be getting any worse, and Florida is going to improve bigly.  I don't see that Tavares' contract is screwing things up, Nylander's (he should've been mid-6M) and Marner's asks are doing it.  That's about $1.5M in cap space over-allocated to the two of them.  Pretty valuable when the team needs a reliable backup goalie, and only have 4 of their D under contract at the moment (one of whom wants out).

I said it before, but the market is shifting (because of all these super-talented 21-year old RFAs) to paying younger talent the kind of money that had been reserved for the 28 or 30-year old A-list.  The young players expect to be paid for future/potential performance, while the older ones expect to be paid on past AND potential performance.  They can't have it both ways. The Leafs got caught right in the middle of it - paying $11M for JT, and now staring down the barrel of that for two 21-year olds.  These kids are performing very well, very fast, and want to be compensated for being cheap / entry-level labour for 3 years, and over-delivering.  Well, go thank your union for that.  That's the way things got structured, so suck it the fuck up.  Now, without arbitration rights, they're only card is 'pay me what I want, or I'll hold out'.  It's gonna take one GM with brass balls to sit someone for a year, or this is gonna continue to escalate.

Was Marner's performance better than the $2.5M he was paid - sure it was.  But that's the deal for entry level.  And later in your career, you'll be over-paid for your performance.  Is PK Subban a $9M player?  Will Erik Karlsson be an $11M player when he's 35?  Hell no to both.  As I said, the tide is shifting, and the players want it both ways.  The economics simply don't work for both ends.
It's an interesting situation, that's for sure. Thanks for the thorough explanation. I'd say his comparable would be someone like Mark Stone, who I think is 9.5 million? Marner has way more points, but both are playmakers. I understand Marner's POV, but maybe too many people are getting into his head? I'm interested to see what happens Monday onward, I have a feeling this will be drawn out for awhile.

And you're right. That Atlantic isn't getting worse, Florida is going to be scary soon (especially if the CBJ duo end up going there). Hopefully in three years or so Ottawa is competitive again, Tampa will probably start regressing eventually and Detroit will be on the up and up as well. Aren't the Marlies really good too? So they'll want to start calling up players as well.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1734 on: June 26, 2019, 01:32:42 PM »
I feel like if I had to choose between CuJo and JR, I'd go with CuJo.

That's a no brainer. #5 all time in wins, he should be there. @Kev... who are you including as the 3rd best ever? Hasek?

If it's not this guy, then the answer is wrong.

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1736 on: June 26, 2019, 02:14:23 PM »
Luongo retires, giving Van a $3M cap hit for the next three years. Ouch.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1737 on: June 26, 2019, 03:32:47 PM »
https://youtu.be/JLco0k3kYBY

The interesting thing about this (at least for me and only in retrospect) is that, despite Cloutier's suckitude, the Kings thought signing him in 2006 was a good idea.  Then, during the Kings' Cup run in 2012, Jonathan Quick gave up a very similar goal to Derek Morris of Phoenix in game 1 of the WCF.  Of course the difference is that the Kings won that game and that series and the Cup and Quick won the Conn Smythe.  But one always makes me think of the other.


Luongo retires, giving Van a $3M cap hit for the next three years. Ouch.

He's the gift that keeps on giving!

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1738 on: June 26, 2019, 03:33:47 PM »
  @Kev... who are you including as the 3rd best ever? Hasek?

Yes.  Roy, Brodeur and Hasek.  And not necessarily in that order.

Offline SchecterShredder

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Hughes goes 1st overall.
« Reply #1739 on: June 26, 2019, 03:53:03 PM »
  @Kev... who are you including as the 3rd best ever? Hasek?

Yes.  Roy, Brodeur and Hasek.  And not necessarily in that order.

All from the same era lol. I guess the 90s was the golden age of tenders in the NHL. Hard to argue with those guys being the top 3 all time.

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1740 on: June 26, 2019, 04:52:37 PM »
Brodeur and Roy are easy 1-2.  Hasek suffers from a lack of longevity imo.  I could go back in time and put guys like Hall/Plante/Sawchuk ahead of Hasek.  I might also put Belfour ahead of him.  Six Vezina's is great, but only took home one cup - after jumping to a tier-1 / loaded team.  Kinda like the Durant thing - couldn't win until he got to an already A-list team.
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I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1741 on: June 26, 2019, 05:02:18 PM »
Dominik Hašek would be my #3.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1742 on: June 26, 2019, 05:37:26 PM »
Brodeur and Roy are easy 1-2.  Hasek suffers from a lack of longevity imo.  I could go back in time and put guys like Hall/Plante/Sawchuk ahead of Hasek.  I might also put Belfour ahead of him.  Six Vezina's is great, but only took home one cup - after jumping to a tier-1 / loaded team.  Kinda like the Durant thing - couldn't win until he got to an already A-list team.

While that might be true about his only Cup, I don't hold that against him.  He was to goalies in his heyday what Dan Marino was to quarterbacks in the 80's head and shoulders above everyone else, but never had the time around him to win a title.  Hockey is the ultimate team sport and so many things have to go your way to win the Cup.  I am not taking anything away from Brodeur, but put Hasek on those Devils teams back in the day and he'd have just as many rings as Brodeur if not more.

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1743 on: June 26, 2019, 05:38:46 PM »
Because i hate the Canucks so much,  I've really enjoyed reading about Luongo's retirement today.  The Canucks take a $3M hit to their cap for the next 3 years for signing him to that ludicrous 12 year contract. Serves them right

Offline pg1067

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1744 on: June 26, 2019, 05:48:56 PM »
Brodeur and Roy are easy 1-2.  Hasek suffers from a lack of longevity imo.  I could go back in time and put guys like Hall/Plante/Sawchuk ahead of Hasek.  I might also put Belfour ahead of him.  Six Vezina's is great, but only took home one cup - after jumping to a tier-1 / loaded team.  Kinda like the Durant thing - couldn't win until he got to an already A-list team.

While that might be true about his only Cup, I don't hold that against him.  He was to goalies in his heyday what Dan Marino was to quarterbacks in the 80's head and shoulders above everyone else, but never had the time around him to win a title.  Hockey is the ultimate team sport and so many things have to go your way to win the Cup.  I am not taking anything away from Brodeur, but put Hasek on those Devils teams back in the day and he'd have just as many rings as Brodeur if not more.

Yup.  Hasek's career might have been more impressive because he almost never had the sort of team in front of him that Roy and Brodeur had just about every year.  All three of them (and others) also benefited greatly from the prevailing style of play in the mid- to late 90s and early 2000s.
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1745 on: June 26, 2019, 05:50:33 PM »
Brodeur and Roy are easy 1-2.  Hasek suffers from a lack of longevity imo.  I could go back in time and put guys like Hall/Plante/Sawchuk ahead of Hasek.  I might also put Belfour ahead of him.  Six Vezina's is great, but only took home one cup - after jumping to a tier-1 / loaded team.  Kinda like the Durant thing - couldn't win until he got to an already A-list team.

While that might be true about his only Cup, I don't hold that against him.  He was to goalies in his heyday what Dan Marino was to quarterbacks in the 80's head and shoulders above everyone else, but never had the time around him to win a title.  Hockey is the ultimate team sport and so many things have to go your way to win the Cup.  I am not taking anything away from Brodeur, but put Hasek on those Devils teams back in the day and he'd have just as many rings as Brodeur if not more.

Oh, the "If Aaron Rogers Played For The Patriots" argument.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1746 on: June 26, 2019, 07:16:25 PM »
Is this where we pretend that teammates don't matter when it comes to winning championships?

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1747 on: June 26, 2019, 07:18:17 PM »
Teammates definitely do. I mean, Hasek went to the Finals with the Sabres. The fucking Sabres!


I personally hate grading athletes based on Championships.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1748 on: June 26, 2019, 07:21:36 PM »
That is why Hasek is one of the three best, despite having only one championship.  You could easily argue that he is the best goalie ever. 

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Re: Official 2018-2019 NHL Thread - v. Free agents are open for business
« Reply #1749 on: June 26, 2019, 08:02:29 PM »
That is why Hasek is one of the three best, despite having only one championship.  You could easily argue that he is the best goalie ever.

I won't argue that on talent, he is arguably the GOAT.  But lets not pretend we're talking about talent only when pulling out the 'greatest' rankings.  In NFL, there is the constant argument that championships matter - was Marino more talented than Montana and/or Brady?  Would you put Marino ahead of either of them for GOAT?  It's impossible to normalize for coaches, team-mates, eras etc, so we often go on stats and awards.  Plante has 7 Vezina's and 6 cups.  I'd personally rate him ahead of Hasek.  I might even have a case to put Dryden ahead of him.
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