Household finances

[jingle.boy]

I suppose if a mod so desires, they can feel free to bring over all posts in the 'irritated' thread on this matter and drop them here.

Mrs.jingle and I seem to be a mix of a few of the other comments made.  She's been a stay-at-home-mom since the jingle.kids were born, and (except for a 2-year period when they were 8 years old), has not had an income producing career.  So, technically it's all MY money.    In reality, I treat it like it's all OUR money.  As far as I'm concerned (and no dis to anyone else - to each their own), the union of our marriage includes the union of our finances.  It's just how I see it.  I'm 100% responsible for all the finances - income, savings, bill payments, etc...  I don't know if she would even know how to pill the utility bills!

Ultimately, we have 2 bank accounts ... they are both joint accounts, but one is 'hers' and one is 'mine' - simply because my paycheque is deposited into 'mine', along with all of the regular big-ticket monthly payments/expenses.

As for investments, we have combinations of long-term and short-term vehicles, some are joint, and for tax purposes, other investments that are in my name and others that are in hers.

But at the end of it all, I don't view any separation of what's mine vs what's hers.  All of our assets (and liabilities) are both of ours.

I know that we are EXTREMELY fortunate for the financial position we're in - I've done well enough in my career and financial planning that we've never had to worry about whether we can or can't / should or shouldn't make any given purchase - big or small.  We're both pretty responsible on what we spend, so (as Gary mentioned), there's never any new assholes being ripped for any spending we do, but there's the odd 'did you really need that?' from both of us to the other.

[ReaperKK]

I personally think that everyone has their own way of dealing with financies. My situation with my gf is thet we keep everything separate and split the housing costs (we own a house together). We both make around the same amount of money but I feel like if we shared financies she would talk about how much I go out to eat and I would probably complain about how much she shops. We all meet our retirement and savings goals and don’t hide anything but it’s much simpler in our case to keep things separate.

I know one couple that goes to the extreme and tracks every purschase made and then will pay the difference to each other at the end of the month. That’s a little extreme.

[Cool Chris]

I can't say much more here than I said in the other thread, but someone (sorry I can't recall who) talked about their financial goals. If you and your spouse have the same short term and long term financial goals, then I think how you work toward achieving those goals is not that important.

I am more focused long term than Mrs. Cool Chris, but she 1) Loves her job and doesn't have any desire to retire early and 2) Will have a nice pension when she does retire. My job is more tenuous, with no 401k plan or pension, so I am more concerned about our IRAs, college funds, and long term planning.

Interestingly, she came up to me just yesterday and asked to see her bank account info - she could have logged in to her account herself, but that would entail spending 5 unsuccessful minutes trying to find her login/password, at which point she would just ask me for them anyway - because she thought she was in her words "spending too much money" (meaning from her personal account on clothes and such). I would have agreed with her, but it wasn't necessarily my place to do so.

[gmillerdrake]

the union of our marriage includes the union of our finances. 

Despite having separate accounts we both know that the money/finances that we have is 'our' money. It just works better for us to have the separate accounts. It was easier to keep our separate accounts after we got married and just add one another to them.

did you really need that?'

I get this questions WAY more than she gets it from me.    F'n late night AMAZON shopping....gets me every time. But I've enjoyed the (8) pack of silly putty I just had to have 

I actually have forced my wife to go spend money on herself. She just doesn't like to spend money if she doesn't have to....but, I personally think that getting yourself something nice (clothes/new computer/whatever??) every now and then is a healthy thing to do. It doesn't ALL have to be about pinching pennies and saving cash. You have to live life a little as well. My Grandmother....who was VERY good with finances.... always told me that from each paycheck 'never forget to pay yourself'. Meaning, pay your bills....put some $$$ aside in savings but also take some $$$ out for yourself and do what you will with it. So from the time I started working (15 1/2 years old) I've never had an issue 'paying myself' all the while still managing to learn to be responsible with $$$

[Cool Chris]

I have made some bad decisions when it comes to jobs, and coupled with a few other poor choices in my 20s, I have lived most of my adult life being very careful with my finances. I've always had money to pay my bills and have a little extra for fun, but I was always conscious that going broke was always a possibility, and without a couple instances where my parents jumped in to help, I could have been in a very bad spot. Now that I have a family I am even more careful, for lack of a better word, and am conscious of every expenditure. I don't necessarily like it but it's just how I've always been.

[jingle.boy]

did you really need that?'

I get this questions WAY more than she gets it from me.   

Ditto my man.  I don't even want to imagine the shit-storm that would ensue if I was to ever question 'did you really need that?'.   

I agree on the topic of getting fun/non-essential things just because.  It's critical to set aside for retirement, sure.  Kids' post-secondary?  Abso-fucking-lutely.  It's wise to have an emergency/rainy day fund.  But what if it doesn't rain that much?  You can't take it with you when you 'go', and it's important to enjoy life, not always be setting aside for something in the future.  We've taken lots of vacations (used to be at least once a year), drive nice vehicles, have lots of gadgets and toys, go out for dinner and theatre regularly etc...  If we penny pinched all of that, it would make for a more comfortable retirement (and likely an earlier one), but a slightly less enjoyable standard of living in our 30s/40s.

One of the best things I did in my early 20s was read The Wealthy Barber.  Very basic and easy to understand financial management topics, told in the form of a fictional story.  I think it is essential for anyone to ingrain themselves with some basic financial planning/management knowledge EARLY in their life, and started with the jingle.kids when they were about 8 - I literally printed off ledgers for them to track their allowance and gift money, and what they were spending it on.  I've taught them to use Quicken to track things now, so when they get into more complicated financial scenarios as they get older, they'll already have some of the basic fundamental knowledge.

[Nick]

I know some people will see this as tedious or unloving or whatever, but I've instituted what I have thought is a fair and nice system we've used for our finances since we bought our first home together two years ago. I'm going to change some numbers for simplicity, and note that we both work and have no kids or any plans for any.

Let's say total recurring monthly expenses (mortgage, utilities, etc) comes out to $2,000 a month. Based on our incomes we agreed that I would pay 60% of the bills, and her 40%. At the end of the day I pay all bills, so she would essentially owe me $800/month towards those expenses. But of course there are regular things we buy for the household, especially groceries and random large one time purchases and such expenses that need to be taking into account. So instead of her giving me a check for $800/month and us exchanging money whenever something is bought we just keep a monthly Google Sheet.

It just starts at $800 owed to me, and if she buys groceries she enters the amount and it automatically deducts 60% of that amount (the portion I'd owe towards the groceries) from the $800. If I take the cats to the vet I put that $100 in my column and it adds $40 (40%) back on to what she owes me. There is also a column for full adjustments, so if I'm out and she asks me to pick up like a gift card for a coworkers birthday, I just buy it and put it in that column and it adjusts for the full amount instead of her paying me back immediately for it. And then at the end of the month she just writes me a check for whatever balance is left and it resets to $800.

And during times when things were a little tighter for her we adjusted the percentages 70/30 in her favor to help out. Coming up she'll be getting a BCBA certification in the fall and once she gets a new job with that things might end up closer to 50/50. So at the end of the day she can do with her excess money as she sees fit and I do with mine as I like.

And this all ties in with the house because our overall percentage payment is tied to the equity in the house. If we were to split I'd get first option of paying her for about 35% of the homes equity (because at times she was paying 30% and others 40%, the actual math would have to be done to determine and exact %) to keep it. If I don't want to do that she would have the option of paying me 65% of the homes equity to keep it. If neither of those things happen or are possible we sell and I keep 65% of proceed and she gets 35%.

[jingle.boy]

That's a very pragmatic and unemotional way to handle things.  I say that with complete neutrality... if anything, I admire that approach way more than I would scorn it.  Money itself is unemotional, so I completely see the value in making the management of it unemotional as well.

[Dublagent66]

Household finances are between me, myself and I.  Doesn't get any simpler than that. 

[Grappler]

My wife and I agree on our finances - before we were married, we kept separate accounts and she paid me rent.  We combined our accounts after we got married just to simplify things.  When she was working, we were always in the black, paid off every loan we had (cars, student loans), with the exception of our mortage, which we paid extra on every month, and could still afford to buy what we wanted and take vacations.

Last fall, she quit working to be a stay at home mom, and it's been really tough on one income (we lost 40% of our total income when she quit).  We had some big purchases for the house, I invested some money in an e-trade account just to try and get a little bit of growth on it, and every month just seems to come up a bit short and we're moving money from savings to cover things (we knew the first year would be tough with lots of diapers and baby formula and grew our savings by $6,000 to help mitigate this).  We recognize this and are trying to cut even further where we can - we have real life proof of what happens with financial mismanagement:

Her dad is 67 and has Crohns and is a very old-school dad - you don't ever talk about finances or show emotion.  So 2 years ago, he was in the hospital for 2 months straight due to his crohns and we took over paying his bills, only to discover that he was paying 14 different credit card bills every month.  I totaled everything up and matched it on a credit report for him - he was hiding being $40,000 in credit card debt.  He's very stubborn and lazy and won't do anything to better his life unless someone does it for him.  He would just work and max out overtime to try and pay his bills, using his retirement account to cover his mortgage.  So we signed him up for Social Security and hired a bankruptcy lawyer so he could just wipe it clean and start over.  Since then, he's retired, but stubbornly refuses to downsize his precious house (he hates renting and thinks it's a waste of money, yet he is quickly draining his retirement account on a house that's too big for him and hard for him to maintain).

So we have seen first hand what happens with poor financial judgment and know what pitfalls are there if we don't avoid them.  It's just scary to live paycheck to paycheck when we never did before and it's taking a while to figure it out.  I recently reduced my 401K contribution to get some extra money in my paychecks to try and help make ends meet until I can eventually bump it back up a bit in the future. 

[cramx3]

I'd say that seems like a lot of work, but if it works, it works.  The fact you two aren't married makes sense too.  When I was engaged and we broke up, I lost a lot of money in that process because similar to Nick, I paid more or most of the expenses but during the break we split things evenly because otherwise she was making my life hell and it's not like I could prove any reasonable way that "I was paying for all the food and hence deserve more equity in the house" and it honestly wasn't worth it at that point for us anyway, but having documented records would have helped.  I got to keep the house, but she kept all my money essentially (which so far is working better for me in the long term as property value rises, so ha! take that! (and yes I am still bitter about this)).  But that experience has made me very weary of future money situations with someone I love.

[King Postwhore]

No separate accounts for us.  Savings/Checking both our checks get deposited.  I'm the guy that takes care of the finances.  Both can go on at any time to look.  Ours is ours.  I find that much easier.

[mike099]

No separate accounts for us.  Savings/Checking both our checks get deposited.  I'm the guy that takes care of the finances.  Both can go on at any time to look.  Ours is ours.  I find that much easier.

We are the same and has worked for 32 years, but I can see how couples would want separate accounts. 

[King Postwhore]

No separate accounts for us.  Savings/Checking both our checks get deposited.  I'm the guy that takes care of the finances.  Both can go on at any time to look.  Ours is ours.  I find that much easier.

We are the same and has worked for 32 years, but I can see how couples would want separate accounts.

I get it.  I just find it so much easier.  It lessens the money talk.

"You need to put this much in because of "a".

Less stress on the relationship.

[lordxizor]

No separate accounts for us.  Savings/Checking both our checks get deposited.  I'm the guy that takes care of the finances.  Both can go on at any time to look.  Ours is ours.  I find that much easier.

We are the same and has worked for 32 years, but I can see how couples would want separate accounts.

I get it.  I just find it so much easier.  It lessens the money talk.

"You need to put this much in because of "a".

Less stress on the relationship.

I'm in agreement with you guys. I won't rehash what I said in the other thread. Of course for my wife and me now, it's really easy because I make virtually 100% of our income with her staying home with the kids.

[jingle.boy]

Nothing that anyone has posted is more right or wrong than anything else.  Whatever works best for each couple is the right answer.  I just thought it was an interesting topic.  No debate or judgment necessary.

At least until Stadler gets his hands on this thread.   \

jk Bill. Love you like an enema... er, enemy.   

[King Postwhore]

 

[New World Rushman]

We basically have a one pot system; everything goes into one pot, and everything comes out of that pot.
It's worked for 31 years of marriage...

[jingle.boy]

Does anyone else read that handle as "New World Russian"?

[King Postwhore]

Does anyone else read that handle as "New World Russian"?

You're so old, you're in the wrong thread sucka!

[ReaperKK]

So I have a question for you guys. Did you sit down with your s/o and talk about how finances should be handled or did it just play out organically.

I was thinking back on my relationship and it just sort of happened were we split everything and that just carried on until now.

[Cool Chris]

We had the discussion, though I cannot recall when it happened. It was pretty simple and straightforward. Happily we have had very few negative discussions about finances.

[jingle.boy]

Just kinda happened.  She'd lived at home all her life until we moved in together, so never had to worry about any bills other than a credit card.  The one vehicle she owned, she'd saved enough and paid cash for it.

When we moved in together for the first time, we split the rent.  I was making better money than her, and during the time we got married, we were house-sitting for my SIL's parents, living rent free for 6 months.  So we just piled everything we both could into savings for a down payment.  Once we bought our first home, I just ended up as the one managing all the finances, and it all came into (and went out of) one big pot.

[Podaar]

Mrs. P is my sugar-momma. She has all the degrees, makes all the money, pays all the bills, has the big pension, and arranges all the vacations. I trim the hedgerow and she says it looks real nice. She is my retirement plan.

She has her account, I have mine, and we have one together.  I keep enough in my account for booze and tobacco and pretty much transfer the rest into the joint account.

[jingle.boy]

I trim the hedgerow and she says it looks real nice.

[Indiscipline]

Did the "everything in common" thing with Wife#1, it cost me a house eventually.

With Wife#2 - big advantage: we're partners at work and do 50% freelance stuff together anyway - it's separate accounts, I own and pay for the city house, she owns and pays for the country one.

The only thing we had to spend more than 5 minutes working out is her daughter's financial management. Wife pays for her uni, I pay for her car, everything related to music and personally buy ammo to threaten candidate boyfriends.

[gmillerdrake]

So I have a question for you guys. Did you sit down with your s/o and talk about how finances should be handled or did it just play out organically.

Very early in our dating we talked about finances. My wife did not/does not like to have to worry about taking care of them and I....was (still am to an extent) a complete control freak when it came to paying bills. Long story short I grew up in a household where on any given day someone would show up to shut off our water or electric, or cable because my mother (stay at home mom who my dad trusted to pay the bills with his $$) would choose to gamble his money away or whatever else instead of paying bills with it.

so there was constant stress and worry in our household. When I moved out I got neurotic about paying bills. When one showed up it was paid...always paid ahead of schedule etc etc.

So when my wife and I talked 'responsibilities' for our marriage I happily insisted that I take care of the finances. It's worked out pretty well. My wife basically covers all the groceries, doctor co-pays/bills, all the kid associated $$$ needs for school/sports etc....and if/when we dine out. I take care of all the 'household' and vehicle bills. It is pretty 'even' when it comes down to looking at the #'s. Especially now that our three sons are eating us out of house and home 

[Tick]

I suppose if a mod so desires, they can feel free to bring over all posts in the 'irritated' thread on this matter and drop them here.

Mrs.jingle and I seem to be a mix of a few of the other comments made.  She's been a stay-at-home-mom since the jingle.kids were born, and (except for a 2-year period when they were 8 years old), has not had an income producing career.  So, technically it's all MY money.    In reality, I treat it like it's all OUR money.  As far as I'm concerned (and no dis to anyone else - to each their own), the union of our marriage includes the union of our finances.  It's just how I see it.  I'm 100% responsible for all the finances - income, savings, bill payments, etc...  I don't know if she would even know how to pill the utility bills!

Ultimately, we have 2 bank accounts ... they are both joint accounts, but one is 'hers' and one is 'mine' - simply because my paycheque is deposited into 'mine', along with all of the regular big-ticket monthly payments/expenses.

As for investments, we have combinations of long-term and short-term vehicles, some are joint, and for tax purposes, other investments that are in my name and others that are in hers.

But at the end of it all, I don't view any separation of what's mine vs what's hers.  All of our assets (and liabilities) are both of ours.

All I will say is if your wife stayed home and raised the children right she earned the right to say its "our" money. Being a parent is easy. Being a quality parent is a whole other ball of wax.

[King Postwhore]

Rich, in this day and age, having a parent as a stay home is so worth it.  In a world of a 2 family income, morals are out the window more than not for the average family.

[Cool Chris]

Rich, in this day and age, having a parent as a stay home is so worth it.  In a world of a 2 family income, morals are out the window more than not for the average family.

No doubt. Except the problem isn't one vs two family incomes, it is one parent families!

[King Postwhore]

The cost of living has forced most to have a 2 income family.  Unfortunately.

[Phoenix87x]

Rich, in this day and age, having a parent as a stay home is so worth it.  In a world of a 2 family income, morals are out the window more than not for the average family.

I definitely agree. If I were to have a kid with someone I would want her to stay home with our child. My mom was NO WHERE to be found when I was growing up and it led to me doing whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. Whether it was smoking, drinking in the woods. Hanging out with a nasty group of kids, getting in trouble with the cops, stealing, you name it. I was a latchkey kid all the way and luckily I was able to turn it around.

And where was my dad in all this? Working full time? No, he was gone before I was born so I came home to an empty house almost everyday and I would like for my child to experience something different.

[King Postwhore]

Now though, change for future.  You make your own path.

[jingle.boy]

<snip>

All I will say is if your wife stayed home and raised the children right she earned the right to say its "our" money.

[Podaar]

Rich, in this day and age, having a parent as a stay home is so worth it.  In a world of a 2 family income, morals are out the window more than not for the average family.

No doubt. Except the problem isn't one vs two family incomes, it is one parent families!

As a single father (who raised two upstanding and outstanding adults) who married a single mother (who provide for them while for five years while getting two college degrees and being PTA president at the same time) I have to say you two don't know shit!