Van Halen opened for Bon Jovi in Europe in 1995?

[WildRanger]

As someone who is from Europe I have to say it was a shame for Van Halen.
I think this reflects a bad fact that Bon Jovi managed to be a much more famous band in Europe than VH, who is a way better band than them. It seems that VH has never put much effort to conquer Europe and the world in general. Unlike VH, Bon Jovi has been a very commercial band and very well promoted worldwide and that was a reason of their big success.

Your thoughts?



 

[MirrorMask]

I've seen worse, such as Judas Priest playing before Avenged Sevenfold in an italian festival. Ozzy was the headliner and I can take Ozzy before Judas Priest, but Avenged Sevenfold in the middle as second billed? bleah.

[Train of Naught]

Van Halen opened for Bon Jovi in Europe in 1995?

Yes

[bosk1]

It's not really surprising.  Van Halen was huge in the '80s, but began a slow and steady decline in the '90s.  Bon Jovi were megastars and arguably still rising during that timeframe.  If a promoter in 1995 felt that Bon Jovi would sell more tickets, that is hardly surprising.

We could argue about which band was more talented, but that is ultimately irrelevant.  But if you think it is a "shame" for ANY band to have to take an opening spot to a band that, at that time, had six platinum albums which sold 74 million copies worldwide, you really do not have a realistic world view.  There's no "shame" in that at all.

But then again, since you never actually participate in the discussions you start, I have no idea why I am wasting my time providing a detailed response.

[Elite]

As someone who is from Europe I have to say it was a shame for Van Halen.

OKay.

I think this reflects a bad fact that Bon Jovi managed to be a much more famous band in Europe than VH, who is a way better band than them.

What?

 

It seems that VH has never put much effort to conquer Europe and the world in general. Unlike VH, Bon Jovi has been a very commercial band and very well promoted worldwide and that was a reason of their big success.

Could very well be so.

Your thoughts?

None on this subject, but I would like to know what your favourite album from 1976 is!

[El Barto]

But then again, since you never actually participate in the discussions you start, I have no idea why I am wasting my time providing a detailed response.

Because other people do participate.

It's not really surprising.  Van Halen was huge in the '80s, but began a slow and steady decline in the '90s.  Bon Jovi were megastars and arguably still rising during that timeframe.  If a promoter in 1995 felt that Bon Jovi would sell more tickets, that is hardly surprising.

That might be treu, but not by much. VH had just put out Balance, which wasn't particularly well received, and they were 3 years after FUCK which was huge. Bonjovi had just put out something called These Days, and I don't recognize a single song off of it, and they were three years off of Keep the Faith, which was huge. Both had live/GHs the year before. Obviously the promoters felt better about BJ, but that still seems odd to me. I think it has to be a regional thing. I don't think that would have happened over here. In fact, I might have seen BJ open for VH at one of the Texxas Jams, albeit a few years prior.

[King Postwhore]

Bon Jovi was just beginning it's decline.  It's funny but some bands are more famous on either side of the pond.  For example, In the 80's  Saga opened for Loverboy in the States.  Just the opposite in Europe where Loverboy opened. Why?  Their popularity at those regions.  No big whoop.

[pg1067]

This reminds me of some ads I saw sometime in the 1984-87 time frame.  Prior to the release of Slide It In, Whitesnake was not particularly well known in the U.S.  "Slide It In," "Slow and Easy" and "Love Ain't No Stranger" were minor hits, but Whitesnake was still an opening band (for the likes of Quiet Riot and Dio).  If I recall correctly, the ads were promoting Slide It In and a couple of the earlier albums.  The gist of the ads was something like the following:  "In Europe, bands like Dio and Quiet Riot open for Whitesnake, not the other way around, so you should check out Whitesnake's back catalog."

The point:  shit be different in the U.S. and Europe.

As far as VH "never [having] put much effort to conquer Europe and the world in general," readily available concert statistics seem to bear that out, so it probably shouldn't come as too much of a surprise that, by 1995, when VH's popularity even in the U.S. was waning, VH was an opening act in Europe.  Therefore, I don't imagine they regarded it as a "shame."

[Stadler]

But then again, since you never actually participate in the discussions you start, I have no idea why I am wasting my time providing a detailed response.

Because other people do participate.

It's not really surprising.  Van Halen was huge in the '80s, but began a slow and steady decline in the '90s.  Bon Jovi were megastars and arguably still rising during that timeframe.  If a promoter in 1995 felt that Bon Jovi would sell more tickets, that is hardly surprising.

That might be treu, but not by much. VH had just put out Balance, which wasn't particularly well received, and they were 3 years after FUCK which was huge. Bonjovi had just put out something called These Days, and I don't recognize a single song off of it, and they were three years off of Keep the Faith, which was huge. Both had live/GHs the year before. Obviously the promoters felt better about BJ, but that still seems odd to me. I think it has to be a regional thing. I don't think that would have happened over here. In fact, I might have seen BJ open for VH at one of the Texxas Jams, albeit a few years prior.

There might be contractual aspects as well. 

Bon Jovi: "We won't play if we're not the headliner".   "$50K?  That's it?  The only way we play for $50K is if we headline."
Van Halen:  "We'll play for anyone, at any time."   "$1,000,000?   We'll open the fucking festival if need be.  Sure."

Ironically, one of the best examples of this is Sam Hagar.  During his Geffen years, he would headline arenas in some places - Midwest, West Coast - and was barely an opening act in the Northeast.   I can remember wanting to see him (I LOVE those Geffen albums, especially Standing Hampton and Three Lock Box) and tours he was on elsewhere, he got subbed out here (in Connecticut).   Sammy talks about this candidly at times, including several times on Eddie Trunk's show.  I can see him being involved in discussions like that in Europe. 

[Train of Naught]

I've seen worse, such as Judas Priest playing before Avenged Sevenfold in an italian festival. Ozzy was the headliner and I can take Ozzy before Judas Priest, but Avenged Sevenfold in the middle as second billed? bleah.

What?? Avenged Sevenfold is a bigger band in this day and age than Judas Priest, they always (well, at least they try to) slot headliners and bigger acts after the smaller ones, what's not to get about that?

[Stadler]

I've seen worse, such as Judas Priest playing before Avenged Sevenfold in an italian festival. Ozzy was the headliner and I can take Ozzy before Judas Priest, but Avenged Sevenfold in the middle as second billed? bleah.

What?? Avenged Sevenfold is a bigger band in this day and age than Judas Priest, they always (well, at least they try to) slot headliners and bigger acts after the smaller ones, what's not to get about that?

I think, respectfully, the question isn't about "slotting bigger acts after the smaller ones", it's about what constitutes "bigger" and "smaller".   

[TAC]

it's about what constitutes "bigger" and "smaller".

Isn't this the crux of everything in the world!

[Train of Naught]

Without turning it into some philosophical debate, I think venue sizes of their recent gigs are a fair indicator, though not waterproof. You could also argue record sales/streams but then the 'generation factor' comes in and skews the outcome

I think this discussion already came up one time where we were discussing if there will be any arena-sized bands after the likes of Iron Maiden / Metallica etc. die out

[Anguyen92]

I've seen worse, such as Judas Priest playing before Avenged Sevenfold in an italian festival. Ozzy was the headliner and I can take Ozzy before Judas Priest, but Avenged Sevenfold in the middle as second billed? bleah.

There comes a time for a band to step down in their position and a rising hot band to move up.  That's just how it is, I feel.  I do believe that Judas Priest just does not have the big definitive headlining pull in festivals nowadays, even with their legendary careers intact, as A7X (a modern band that attracts the younger demographics in addition to metalheads and the likes).

[bosk1]

It's not really surprising.  Van Halen was huge in the '80s, but began a slow and steady decline in the '90s.  Bon Jovi were megastars and arguably still rising during that timeframe.  If a promoter in 1995 felt that Bon Jovi would sell more tickets, that is hardly surprising.

That might be treu, but not by much. VH had just put out Balance, which wasn't particularly well received, and they were 3 years after FUCK which was huge. Bonjovi had just put out something called These Days, and I don't recognize a single song off of it, and they were three years off of Keep the Faith, which was huge. Both had live/GHs the year before. Obviously the promoters felt better about BJ, but that still seems odd to me. I think it has to be a regional thing. I don't think that would have happened over here. In fact, I might have seen BJ open for VH at one of the Texxas Jams, albeit a few years prior.

Yes, but the "not by much" is my whole point.  Heck, the promoters may even have been dead wrong.  But it's not as if their decision is so off base that it warrants automatic criticism.  It's a close call, so you use your best judgment.  That's all I'm saying. 

[cramx3]

Europe has a different taste for metal than the US, simply that IMO.  Sure the timing probably plays some role as well and potentially other negotiations.  Would have been a cool tour to catch

[TAC]

Looking at the dates, they are mostly festival dates with VH playing 90 minute sets.

As someone who is from Europe I have to say it was a shame for Van Halen.
I think this reflects a bad fact that Bon Jovi managed to be a much more famous band in Europe than VH, who is a way better band than them. It seems that VH has never put much effort to conquer Europe and the world in general. Unlike VH, Bon Jovi has been a very commercial band and very well promoted worldwide and that was a reason of their big success.

Your thoughts?

Dude, 1995 VH was basically cooked, no? I mean I like Balance and all but...

Not for anything, but Bon Jovi was a pretty good band, at least through New Jersey. I saw Bon Jovi a number of times between 1984 and 1993 and they were amazing live. Honestly, they were better live than Van Hagar.

[MirrorMask]

I've seen worse, such as Judas Priest playing before Avenged Sevenfold in an italian festival. Ozzy was the headliner and I can take Ozzy before Judas Priest, but Avenged Sevenfold in the middle as second billed? bleah.

There comes a time for a band to step down in their position and a rising hot band to move up.  That's just how it is, I feel.  I do believe that Judas Priest just does not have the big definitive headlining pull in festivals nowadays, even with their legendary careers intact, as A7X (a modern band that attracts the younger demographics in addition to metalheads and the likes).

Well, of course I know that in the end money and sales it's all that matters, it's not that I'm naive, it's just that I felt that Judas Priest had enough history to still headline or be second after legends such as Ozzy. Deep Purple nowadays are not the arena sensations Maiden or Metallica are, but I would never even imagine to have them play before a way younger band such as A7X to make another example.

But uh well, I'm just a sentimental dude I guess.

[Dave_Manchester]

I was a child of the 80s who grew up in England and I honestly never heard a single song of Van Halen other than Jump, whereas Bon Jovi were absolutely huge in the late 80s and early to mid 90s. That's the 'answer' to this thread, I think. It's not about who was 'better' or 'worse' (which is entirely subjective), it's just about the market of that time. Van Halen were nowhere near the huge band in Europe that they were in the US, whereas Bon Jovi tapped into that cheesy anthemic stadium rock sound (not a criticism, I love Bon Jovi) that 80s European bands such as Scorpions and Def Leppard did so well.

[ZirconBlue]

THere was a point in the 80s where Bon Jovi opened for Ratt in the US, then Ratt opened for Bon Jovi in Europe.  Clearly BJ was the bigger act in Europe.

That might be treu, but not by much. VH had just put out Balance, which wasn't particularly well received, and they were 3 years after FUCK which was huge. Bonjovi had just put out something called These Days, and I don't recognize a single song off of it, and they were three years off of Keep the Faith, which was huge.

These Days is the best Bon Jovi album, IMO.

[TAC]

THere was a point in the 80s where Bon Jovi opened for Ratt in the US,

I remember the tour, and would've considered going if it was the other way around. I hated Ratt. Saw Bon Jovi a year earlier in an opening slot for Scorpions and I thought they were awesome.

[El Barto]

Yeah, I saw the Bon Jovi/Ratt tour in '85. Had really good seats, for some reason. Whole lot of nice tail, as I recall. BJ put on a good show, but I've never been a fan of their music. Ratt was Ratt.

[King Postwhore]

THere was a point in the 80s where Bon Jovi opened for Ratt in the US,

I remember the tour, and would've considered going if it was the other way around. I hated Ratt. Saw Bon Jovi a year earlier in an opening slot for Scorpions and I thought they were awesome.

84. Love At First Sting/ Bon Jovi Self titled tour.

2 days before finals sophomore year.  Mom told me, "If I knew it was 2 days before finals I wouldn't have let you go".

Yeah, I held back information.   Lol

[TAC]

Hah!

Yeah, we've talked about this before. Saw This Is Spinal Tap in the theater on Friday night. Saw Scorps on Saturday night.

I thought Bon Jovi was great. I still remember them playing Get Ready.
Not sure if you remember but I bought this sleeveless sweatshirt style Bon Jovi shirt. Also went out on Sunday and picked up the Bon Jovi cassette.

[King Postwhore]

I remember Roulette and loving that song.

[KevShmev]

84. Love At First Sting/ Bon Jovi Self titled tour.

2 days before finals sophomore year.  Mom told me, "If I knew it was 2 days before finals I wouldn't have let you go".

Yeah, I held back information.   Lol

"You fargin' sneaky bastage!!"

[King Postwhore]

 

Fargin Icehole!!!

[jammindude]

I still think it's so weird how big Bon Jovi is in the rest of the world.   

In the US, he has maybe 4 or 5 hits tops.   

Runaway
You Give Love a Bad Name
Livin on a Prayer
Wanted Dead or Alive
Bad Medicine

And 3 of those are off *ONE ALBUM*.   

I know a few others because I have the older albums...but they are seriously a footnote in the hair metal scheme of things in the states.   Ya, maybe in the top 10 hair metal bands.....you might put them at the bottom of the top 5 if you were biased.   

[KevShmev]

Eh? 

Slippery When Wet had 3 monster hits and New Jersey had 4.  And that is not even counting Runaway, which, while being their breakthrough hit, wasn't that big of a hit, at least compared to the monsters on the aforementioned albums.

[jammindude]

Eh? 

Slippery When Wet had 3 monster hits and New Jersey had 4.  And that is not even counting Runaway, which, while being their breakthrough hit, wasn't that big of a hit, at least compared to the monsters on the aforementioned albums.

New Jersey had another hit besides Bad Medicine?   I always thought New Jersey was the swan song that was never quite as good (or well received) as Slippery When Wet, which was obviously massive.   I even watched MTV constantly, and I never saw anything besides Bad Medicine. 

If I were to walk into any bar full of people from my area that grew up in the 80s and mentioned Bon Jovi, the end of that conversation would ultimately end up with "I wonder what ever happened to them....are they still around?"

You wouldn't get that answer with Def Leppard, or Van Halen, or the Scorpions, or even Motley Crue...  Personally, I would put Bon Jovi on equal footing with someone like Poison. 

[Dave_Manchester]

^^ Their ballads 'Always' and 'Bed of Roses' were massive hits in Britain when I was a kid. Non-stop radio play.

[KevShmev]

I am calling bull shit on that, jammindude.

MTV played the living crap out of not just Bad Medicine, but I'll Be There for You (number 1 on the pop charts), Born to Be My Baby (number 3 on the pop charts) and Lay Your Hands on Me (number 7 on the pop charts).  There was no way for an MTV viewer to miss any of those songs.

Sure, nowadays, the average person remembers Wanted Dead or Alive and Livin' on a Prayer the most, but they had 7 monster hits from those two albums (SWW and NJ).

And I am not even much of a fan.

[King Postwhore]

Jesus Jammin.  Were you on acid? Bon Jovi owned the world!! Too many hits from those 2 albums.

Wait! Maybe you were in a coma?!

[jammindude]

Ok....I legitimately forgot about I'll Be There For You....yep.  That was big. HUGE in fact.   Can't believe I forgot that one.  My bad.

The other two I vaguely remember.   Didn't even know they were hits at all. 

[Dave_Manchester]

In These Arms, that was another massive hit in Britain. They basically owned the early 90s, at least where I grew up.