Author Topic: Return to Budokan?  (Read 1590 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline aglenn01

  • Posts: 13
Return to Budokan?
« on: July 04, 2018, 06:02:47 PM »
Apologize if I'm late to the party, but WTF on this live footage from Japan on last year's I&W tour. I've just discovered on YT. Some of the best, if not the best, live footage I've ever seen from the band. Audio on point, video esp on point (actually focusing on JP during guitar parts, JR during keys, MM during drum parts, and JM! during bass runs.) Why are the band not "officially" releasing this, and pumping it to high heaven?? Fantastic set and performances! Obviously pro-shot for release, I just don't get it. Would be the benchmark in my mind for DT live releases. Am I taking crazy pills?? Thoughts?

Online Kattelox

  • Cart Corral Crusader
  • Posts: 4569
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2018, 06:17:39 PM »
Bruh, there's a thread for this just a few threads down.  :tup

Summary: it was pro shot for Japanese television.
RYM || Last.FM
"No Christ, God, nor religion gave me the answers I was looking for" - Timo Tolkki

Offline aglenn01

  • Posts: 13
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2018, 06:37:57 PM »
No disrespect, but I'm a few pages into that thread, and the talk is all about he Astonishing and Rick C. production,..Nothing about the awesome live footage I was referring to. Not to discount you in any way, as it seems virtually impossible that I would be the first to ask about this awesome footage. Just point me in the right direction. Just wondering personally as I am a big fan (obv..why else would I be on this board?) and was on row 2 for the show in Austin last Dec...why is this not officially talked about/for release/sale, etc..?

Offline SystematicThought

  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4525
  • Gender: Male
  • Carpe Diem-2018
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2018, 06:50:20 PM »
Itís like the last few pages of that thread
"Keep your stick on the ice. I'm pulling for ya. Remember we're all in this together."
-Red Green

Offline aglenn01

  • Posts: 13
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2018, 07:26:25 PM »
OK, found the conversation way back at the end of that thread. Thanks for the direction. I do agree that whoever the film/production co. is needs to shoot all live releases from this day forward!! Regarding the main issue with James' vocals on the recording....aahhhÖ whatever. My opinion--MY OPINION only....the main issue with DT for the last 20 years is "JLB vocals". Bottom line for me is that this is some of the best live footage of the band playing some of our favorite songs from the band ever recorded. I would not deny the fan base that, as any JLB vocal issues certainly wont be exacerbated or resolved with this footage, but most of us would love to have this recording, either way!

Offline noxon

  • Fan Club Professional
  • Posts: 1060
  • Gender: Male
    • DTNorway
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2018, 02:57:01 AM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.
There will be a reckoning.

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1238
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2018, 06:00:08 AM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.

James re-recording his vocals? :P

Offline Bertielee

  • Posts: 2091
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP, Dad (1935-2017)
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2018, 06:04:15 AM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.

James re-recording his vocals? :P

Hey nikatapi, you seem to be a "bash JLB" campaign lately. 3 posts I read of you, 3 posts where you complain how bad his recent vocals are / were. Does that hurt so much?

B.Lee
'Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music.' Sergei Rachmaninov
"Life is divided into two sets of people : people who have lost and people who haven't yet." George Michael

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1238
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2018, 06:29:42 AM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.

James re-recording his vocals? :P

Hey nikatapi, you seem to be a "bash JLB" campaign lately. 3 posts I read of you, 3 posts where you complain how bad his recent vocals are / were. Does that hurt so much?

B.Lee

Actually yeah it hurts to see James' vocals in this condition. I am disappointed. And i'm hoping that he rests his voice after this extensive (and very demanding) touring schedule.

Offline Bertielee

  • Posts: 2091
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP, Dad (1935-2017)
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2018, 01:47:13 PM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.

James re-recording his vocals? :P

Hey nikatapi, you seem to be a "bash JLB" campaign lately. 3 posts I read of you, 3 posts where you complain how bad his recent vocals are / were. Does that hurt so much?

B.Lee

Actually yeah it hurts to see James' vocals in this condition. I am disappointed. And i'm hoping that he rests his voice after this extensive (and very demanding) touring schedule.

Yeah, I get it, simply I'm not the kind of guy who thought JLB's voice would remain the same all over the years (I don't imply you are that kind of guy), so maybe it is less painful to me. And frankly, I don't go to concerts anymore and watch DVDs only once. I'm more into the studio stuff, so it's all good for me.

B.Lee
'Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music.' Sergei Rachmaninov
"Life is divided into two sets of people : people who have lost and people who haven't yet." George Michael

Offline nikatapi

  • Posts: 1238
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2018, 04:18:03 AM »
It's coming. Can't say when. There's some rights issues that needs to be cleared.

James re-recording his vocals? :P

Hey nikatapi, you seem to be a "bash JLB" campaign lately. 3 posts I read of you, 3 posts where you complain how bad his recent vocals are / were. Does that hurt so much?

B.Lee

Actually yeah it hurts to see James' vocals in this condition. I am disappointed. And i'm hoping that he rests his voice after this extensive (and very demanding) touring schedule.

Yeah, I get it, simply I'm not the kind of guy who thought JLB's voice would remain the same all over the years (I don't imply you are that kind of guy), so maybe it is less painful to me. And frankly, I don't go to concerts anymore and watch DVDs only once. I'm more into the studio stuff, so it's all good for me.

B.Lee

For sure i understand your point of view.
It's just personal frustration since James is one of my favorite singers. Let's hope he rests and i'm pretty sure he will be great in the studio (as always).

Offline YtseJamittaja

  • Yub Nub
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 2037
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 05:24:16 AM »
Wow, bass is REALLY audible in this  :o
Do you even whahŪbrido pickingant?

M Y  L A S T. F M  P R O F I L E

Online ErHaO

  • Posts: 919
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2018, 02:55:14 AM »
Wow, bass is REALLY audible in this  :o

Yes, this is really cool.

And I agree with the criticism on JLB's vocals, I think it is a very weak performance in that regard. And that unfortunately makes it a performance not really suitable for my enjoyment overall.

Offline noxon

  • Fan Club Professional
  • Posts: 1060
  • Gender: Male
    • DTNorway
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2018, 05:32:23 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if the actual release would be remixed and possibly fixed up more than the TV show. The TV show was done quickly to meet a deadline for airing, so it may be that they're taking the opportunity to polish the audio more. As the vocal track was ruined by a recording mishap as well, it wouldn't surprise me if its rerecorded.
There will be a reckoning.

Offline Evai

  • Posts: 400
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2018, 06:01:31 AM »
I don't think I'd buy another DT DVD unless it was The Astonishing. Maybe if the next album was REALLY good and the DVD mostly featured songs from it
You are acting very strange!

Nervous and on edge!

Offline dtrocker25

  • Posts: 41
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2018, 02:28:18 PM »
Seen them live every year they have come thru Dallas and Oklahoma for the last 20 years..never disappointed..Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

  • I make music. I also do other stuff sometimes.
  • Posts: 1349
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Edward Bozoian, my best friend. 1989 - 2009
    • Link to my solo album
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 03:43:29 PM »
Seen them live every year they have come thru Dallas and Oklahoma for the last 20 years..never disappointed..Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT
I like your attitude dtrocker.  ;)

Offline Lethean

  • Posts: 1676
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 07:05:05 PM »
Seen them live every year they have come thru Dallas and Oklahoma for the last 20 years..never disappointed..Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT
I like your attitude dtrocker.  ;)
+1

Offline Stewie

  • Evil Baby
  • Posts: 109
  • Gender: Male
  • Football for a head
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 08:11:27 PM »
Seen them live every year they have come thru Dallas and Oklahoma for the last 20 years..never disappointed..Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT

I agree with you, but at the same time, I donít unconditionally love everything the band does (not saying you do). I think itís important to remember that a lot of DT fans are musicians themselves, some who compose and record as well, so they have strong opinions regarding the quality of a performance, the production of an album, etc. The criticism doesnít necessarily come from a bad place, itís just the way a lot of fans are. We seem to have very particular tastes, and a lot of times approach things with a ďthatís not what I wouldíve doneĒ attitude. Granted, some fans like to bash just for the sake of doing so...not sure if those kinds of fans are truly ďfansĒ, or if they just like getting a rise out of other fans. But yes, I agree with you - it does get old when you hear the same old criticisms.
Trapped inside this sit-com-va-ri-um!

Offline TAC

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 29522
  • Gender: Male
  • Just a decent, normal metal-head fellow
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 08:16:24 PM »
Some fans need to sit back and enjoy. It is what it is.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline geeeemo

  • Posts: 54
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 09:08:18 PM »
Seen them live every year they have come thru Dallas and Oklahoma for the last 20 years..never disappointed..Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT

I agree with you, but at the same time, I donít unconditionally love everything the band does (not saying you do). I think itís important to remember that a lot of DT fans are musicians themselves, some who compose and record as well, so they have strong opinions regarding the quality of a performance, the production of an album, etc. The criticism doesnít necessarily come from a bad place, itís just the way a lot of fans are. We seem to have very particular tastes, and a lot of times approach things with a ďthatís not what I wouldíve doneĒ attitude. Granted, some fans like to bash just for the sake of doing so...not sure if those kinds of fans are truly ďfansĒ, or if they just like getting a rise out of other fans. But yes, I agree with you - it does get old when you hear the same old criticisms.

I am totally on board with Dtrockr25 :yarr  And I really wouldn't consider myself a musician, although I studied piano for 7-8 yrs as a young girl and I know a few chords on the guitar lol! So for me, it is just about listening to music I love. Sure, some songs take a minute to grow, but I have to say there are only about 3 I really don't like, including all their live stuff. Give it all to me - I'll take it :metal

Offline Setlist Scotty

  • Posts: 2108
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 09:37:54 PM »
Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT
While I will agree that the bashing can get tiresome, especially if those doing the bashing do so without detailing the issues they have or do so in a completely obnoxious manner (like Mr.DreamTheater2), what is wrong with critiquing the band (which has been going on since the days of Awake)? Or quite frankly, why can't we (according to you) judge JL by videos that are posted on YouTube?

Sure, if it's simply one show where he was having a rough night, I agree. But if JL's having problems repeatedly as documented on videos from numerous shows, then I think it's fair to question and discuss his performances. Honestly, I can't help but think of the fact that Neil Peart retired because he felt he would not be able to continue to perform to the high standards he set for himself. Now I'm not saying that JL should be fired or that he should willingly step down, but I think it's fair topic for debate.

And as Stewie brought up, the same thing could be said for the mix/production on an album. In fact, it's funny how one of the issues most fans have had since MM came aboard was the clinical/mechanical way the drums sound - something MM has hinted at being disappointed with. Lo and behold, this was brought up in the recent Facebook Q&A where the band said his drums would sound much more natural on this upcoming album. So I would argue that our discussions and critiques can actually be beneficial, as long as it is relatively balanced. I think it would be just about as bad to constantly heap praise on them and turn a blind eye to flaws as it would be to nitpick every teeny tiny flaw in a completely obnoxious and offensive manner.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 1651
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 10:37:13 PM »
Bashing James is getting old..Bashing MM because he ainít MP is getting old...you canít judge James from bootlegs and you canít judge MM because he is more technical and precise..whatever they come out with I will buy because there isnít anything like DT..copycats yes...wanna be likes yes..but not DT
While I will agree that the bashing can get tiresome, especially if those doing the bashing do so without detailing the issues they have or do so in a completely obnoxious manner (like Mr.DreamTheater2), what is wrong with critiquing the band (which has been going on since the days of Awake)? Or quite frankly, why can't we (according to you) judge JL by videos that are posted on YouTube?

Sure, if it's simply one show where he was having a rough night, I agree. But if JL's having problems repeatedly as documented on videos from numerous shows, then I think it's fair to question and discuss his performances. Honestly, I can't help but think of the fact that Neil Peart retired because he felt he would not be able to continue to perform to the high standards he set for himself. Now I'm not saying that JL should be fired or that he should willingly step down, but I think it's fair topic for debate.

And as Stewie brought up, the same thing could be said for the mix/production on an album. In fact, it's funny how one of the issues most fans have had since MM came aboard was the clinical/mechanical way the drums sound - something MM has hinted at being disappointed with. Lo and behold, this was brought up in the recent Facebook Q&A where the band said his drums would sound much more natural on this upcoming album. So I would argue that our discussions and critiques can actually be beneficial, as long as it is relatively balanced. I think it would be just about as bad to constantly heap praise on them and turn a blind eye to flaws as it would be to nitpick every teeny tiny flaw in a completely obnoxious and offensive manner.

Great post, man, I agree. We, as fans and supporters of the band, should be able to express our opinions to them, but in a constructive way. The problem starts when someone thinks the band SHOULD do what they want just because they have a strong opinion about it, and, at the end of the day, it's up to them to decide what they want to do, even if it isn't perceived as the best call by some fans.

In my opinion, some flaws can be ignored and we can still enjoy the music. DT12, for example. I love the record and don't mind the raw production or different snare sound. But something like James having a hard time singing the DT sets on most of the shows can be a big problem and it's honestly something that concerns me for the future of the band. I love James, but I'm starting to feel like the band could be better with someone else. Still, I'm not going to stop supporting them just because I don't like the way he sings at the live shows, it's my favorite band after all.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline dparrott

  • Posts: 1760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2018, 11:28:31 PM »
Some fans need to sit back and enjoy. It is what it is.

I don't usually have strong feelings against the band or their music or performances, but it was hard for me to enjoy the bootleg I downloaded from Budokan.  Like I said before, he's trying to hit notes he can't hit anymore and it's kinda painful to hear.  It's unrealistic to try to hit the same high notes 25 years later.
"I don't know nuttin about nuttin" - Marshawn Lynch

The very soul of what was once real music is now lost in a digital quagmire of emotionless sonic madness.

Offline dtrocker25

  • Posts: 41
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 03:45:20 PM »
Good comments everyone..I have this feeling that when the new disc comes out we will be blown away..I think the band wants to quiet the critics and prove they are the best progressive metal band bar none..Iím stoked for the new music and tour.

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 1651
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2018, 08:32:58 PM »
Good comments everyone..I have this feeling that when the new disc comes out we will be blown away..I think the band wants to quiet the critics and prove they are the best progressive metal band bar none..Iím stoked for the new music and tour.

I have the same feeling. Canít wait for this album :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Bertielee

  • Posts: 2091
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP, Dad (1935-2017)
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2018, 12:36:59 AM »
Good comments everyone..I have this feeling that when the new disc comes out we will be blown away..I think the band wants to quiet the critics and prove they are the best progressive metal band bar none..Iím stoked for the new music and tour.

I have the same feeling. Canít wait for this album :metal

You know what guys? I'm pumped and all for the new songs but I'm even more eager to hear the sound they have.

B.Lee
'Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music.' Sergei Rachmaninov
"Life is divided into two sets of people : people who have lost and people who haven't yet." George Michael

Online gzarruk

  • Posts: 1651
  • Gender: Male
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2018, 07:51:22 AM »
Good comments everyone..I have this feeling that when the new disc comes out we will be blown away..I think the band wants to quiet the critics and prove they are the best progressive metal band bar none..Iím stoked for the new music and tour.

I have the same feeling. Canít wait for this album :metal

You know what guys? I'm pumped and all for the new songs but I'm even more eager to hear the sound they have.

B.Lee

Weíll have a better idea of that once they announce whoís engineering and mixing the album. Nothing against Chycki, but I really want someone else to do it this time.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Bertielee

  • Posts: 2091
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP, Dad (1935-2017)
Re: Return to Budokan?
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2018, 01:40:26 PM »
Good comments everyone..I have this feeling that when the new disc comes out we will be blown away..I think the band wants to quiet the critics and prove they are the best progressive metal band bar none..Iím stoked for the new music and tour.

I have the same feeling. Canít wait for this album :metal

You know what guys? I'm pumped and all for the new songs but I'm even more eager to hear the sound they have.

B.Lee

Weíll have a better idea of that once they announce whoís engineering and mixing the album. Nothing against Chycki, but I really want someone else to do it this time.

Frankly, if I have the sound of the drummer documentary, I'm a happy man.

B.Lee
'Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music.' Sergei Rachmaninov
"Life is divided into two sets of people : people who have lost and people who haven't yet." George Michael