Author Topic: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams  (Read 430 times)

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Online Stadler

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2018, 08:25:53 AM »
UConn Basketball.  Look it up.   For about a decade under Calhoun, they had both the largest out-of-state press contingent at games (yes, more than Duke) and one of the largest traveling contingents of any team in the NCAA.    Plus, back in...I want to say it's 2000 or so, I was in Zurich, Switzerland, and walking past a sports apparel store, and in the front display window was a complete set of UConn basketball gear.  Having the greatest basketball coach in the history of the game (yes, I said that) as their women's coach doesn't hurt either.   Just throwing it out there. 

Offline orcus116

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2018, 08:53:03 AM »
You are including Dizzy Dean as a Cub? :lol :lol   That is not the way it works, otherwise I can call Wayne Gretzky a Blues legend and Michael Jordan a Washington Wizards legend. There is a big difference between being x-team's legend and being a legend that just happened to play for x-team for a while.  Albert Pujols is a Cardinals legend, but will not go down as an Angels legend despite playing there for many years now.  That is the difference. 

So Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds, both of whom were mentioned immediately above this, are immune to this rule?

The Cardinals have almost twice as many retired numbers as the Cubs (not counting managers or owners).

Retired numbers don't mean anything. Look at the Yankees and their absurd amount of retired numbers. Yes they have a rich history but at least half of those numbers belong to players with good to mediocre stats.

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #37 on: July 06, 2018, 09:56:45 AM »
Yeah, I don't see the Cardinals making it even close to a list like this... In terms of MLB teams, I'd say the Yankees, Cubs, and Red Soxs make sense. No other MLB team makes sense to be in a top 10 list.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2018, 10:06:13 AM »
You are including Dizzy Dean as a Cub? :lol :lol   That is not the way it works, otherwise I can call Wayne Gretzky a Blues legend and Michael Jordan a Washington Wizards legend. There is a big difference between being x-team's legend and being a legend that just happened to play for x-team for a while.  Albert Pujols is a Cardinals legend, but will not go down as an Angels legend despite playing there for many years now.  That is the difference. 

So Scott Rolen and Jim Edmonds, both of whom were mentioned immediately above this, are immune to this rule?

Rolen and (especially) Edmonds has their peak/best years as a St Louis Cardinal.

Offline pg1067

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #39 on: July 06, 2018, 10:32:28 AM »
As a Dodgers fan, I had quite enough of Wainwright in the late 2000s/early 2010s, thanks.

If you normalize their stats (because Wainwright has been around longer), Wainwright and Arrieta are relatively comparable.

Edmonds and Rolen played more than half their careers elsewhere, so by your own reasoning, they don't count (and neither is getting into Cooperstown without a ticket, so it doesn't really matter).

Ultimately, the Yankees are the only MLB team that unquestionably makes a "list of America's teams."  IMO, the Red Sox and Cubs also do (or are very close).  The Cards don't even come close, and that's despite the Cards having won 2 of the last 14 World Series and having lost 2 others in the same time span.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #40 on: July 06, 2018, 05:23:24 PM »


If you normalize their stats (because Wainwright has been around longer), Wainwright and Arrieta are relatively comparable.

Not really.  Arrieta was a flash in the pan, while Wainwright was a legit number 1 (or 1b) starter in MLB for mostly a decade.

Edmonds and Rolen played more than half their careers elsewhere, so by your own reasoning, they don't count (and neither is getting into Cooperstown without a ticket, so it doesn't really matter).

Their peaks were as Cardinals, which is what I was talking about earlier with the Hornsby, Dean, etc. examples.

Granted, Rolen only played 6 of his 17 seasons in St. Louis, but he won 4 of his 8 Gold Gloves here and appeared in 5 of his 7 All-Star games as a Cardinal.

Edmonds played 8 of his 17 seasons in St. Louis, winning 6 of his 8 Gold Gloves as a Cardinal and appearing in 3 of his 4 All-Star games as a Cardinal.

Neither will make the Hall, but that's only because the baseball writers who vote are idiots (I have said this for years).  Rolen and Edmonds were good offensive players and elite defensive players, which rarely gets you in anymore.  Had either been an elite offensive player and merely good defensively, they'd be in.  Voters rarely care about defense, except in rare cases like Ozzie Smith.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2018, 05:30:31 PM »
And since some had wondered what being a part of an America's Team discussion means, I would say it means being iconic across multiple generations and eras.

Recent media history has skewed various things certain ways, however, since a) baseball and hockey don't get talked about nearly as much as football and basketball nowadays, and b) the biggest major cities will always get talked about the most (NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, etc.).

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #42 on: July 06, 2018, 05:36:16 PM »
I never thought it was that important.   I tend to look domination over a long period of time.  Those are the teams I remember.   


I will say I've always admired how St. Louis was so playoff steady with a mid range payroll.
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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2018, 08:26:23 AM »
I think it's more than just "dominance over time", though.  There's an intangible that goes into being an "America's Team".   Notre Dame; they are an independent school (or were) and had a national TV contract all by their lonesome.  They are an "America's Team".  it's beyond any one player, it's beyond any one generation, it's beyond any one period in their history. 

I'm not saying that it's ONLY this, but these things factor in. 

Offline orcus116

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2018, 08:28:19 AM »
That makes sense. It's almost a question of when you walk into any random sports wear store what teams logos are you likely to see?

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2018, 08:38:51 AM »
That's not a bad way to look at it, but that could be a generational thing, or even a shiny new car thing.  For example, 20 years ago you would have seen Chicago Bulls gear everywhere, but now not so much.  Or when the San Jose Sharks first hit the scene, it seemed like people everywhere were wearing Sharks gear because they loved the colors. I remember seeing their gear for sale everywhere here in St. Louis of all places.  There're just so many ways to look at it. Makes for a fun little debate. :hat

Online Stadler

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Re: Cowherd's Top 10 America's Teams
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2018, 09:01:00 AM »
And that's the point; the Bulls are not, in my humble opinion.

My first wife was a widow when I met her.  Her husband?  Had like four ND sweatshirts, and had the leprechaun tattooed on his arm.  That was over 25 years ago, now.    My step daughter today has an ND sweatshirt with the leprechaun.  Transcends generations, and isn't tied to one player.   Yankees are like that.  Dallas is like that.