Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album

[gzarruk]

I still love this album. I was going through hard times around the time it was released and listened to it A LOT. Very underrated album.

[spw5150]

still love the album,  Surrender to Reason and The Bigger Picture are highlights as well as Illumination Theory.  Production wise then drums are dull ( Especially compared to Distance over Time)

[Drinktheater]

still love the album,  Surrender to Reason and The Bigger Picture are highlights as well as Illumination Theory.  Production wise then drums are dull ( Especially compared to Distance over Time)

And I feel Johns rhythm guitar tone sounds so harsh and to over powering. I like heavy music and all but eh sometimes there is just so much wall of sound that is grating to the ears, the bigger picture could use a better mix along with Surrender to Reason

[Jay T]

One of my complaints for this album is the overall production, particularly John’s guitar tone. His rhythm crunch tone is very muddy, and not nearly as tight and articulate as it is on other albums. The drums sound slightly off to me, and I am typically not a fan of low tuned snares. Keys seem a little buried in the mix, although the bass does sound awesome, I have to admit. Favorite track off the album is Surrender to Reason.

[adamack]

Probably my second to least favorite. I still love Surrender To Reason, and I actually really like the Enemy Inside a lot. The Bigger Picture and Behind The Veil are also really good.

But I hate Along for the Ride, I HATE The Looking Glass, The Enigma Machine is easily their worst instrumental IMO, False Awakening Suite is eh, and Illumination Theory is my least favorite of their epics.

Also, the  album may have aged a touch better with a proper drum mix

[Trav86]

It's actually aged very well for me. I would say it's my second favorite of the New Era, right behind Distance Over Time.

[goo-goo]

For me, it hasn't aged well. The production kills it for me. My favorite song off the S/T is The Bigger Picture

I would put it dead bottom

1- d/t
2- ADTOE
3- TA
4- S/T

[1neeto]

Loved it at first, but as the years went by it has lost its charm. IT and TEI stand out, and I enjoy TBP, especially the solo.

[TheGreatPretender]

When it first came out, I was pretty stoked on it. I called it my 4th favorite, behind SFAM, Images & Words, and Systematic Chaos. Not sure I'd rank it quite as high now, but I still listen to it regularly and still very much enjoy it. I'd say it's one of their more consistently good albums, overall, so it still tops the majority of their discography for me. It probably helps that I exclusively listen to the HD Tracks version, but even just in terms of sheer composition, I think it's excellent.

[The Letter M]

In retrospect, it's pretty okay-to-good. I just listened to the HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12 a couple of weeks ago in my car during my daily commutes, and when I got to DT12, I found myself humming to the melodies, remembering some words and what not, but outside of that, I didn't feel very much of a connection to most of the material. Like, it's good, but it just hasn't settled in the way the other 3 aforementioned albums have. I remember liking it a lot when it came out, but on recent listen, it's more OK than Good or Great.

Other than AFTR, I really only enjoy the songs after Enigma Machine, but maybe that's because the band were really channeling Rush-vibes in many of those songs (as well as The Looking Glass). There's a lot of Rush-ness across the album, and I think it helps AND hurts the album, but as a Rush fan, I can't be TOO mad at them for asking "What Would Rush Do"?

I also still have mixed feelings about "Illumination Theory" - there are parts of it that are awesome, gorgeous and beautiful, but parts of it are just "meh" or cringey to my ears all these years later. I don't really like the part after the the orchestral break, which sounds so derivative of Rush's "The Necromancer" (musically) and "Didacts And Narpets" (lyrically). Like, I get it Petrucci, you love Rush and Caress Of Steel...

Anyways - TL:DR, it's mid-tier DT, and I find the 3 albums prior to it better by comparison, though given what came after it, I'd rather like to DT12 over TA any day.

-Marc.

Going back and reading my response to this thread from last June, I still feel kind of the same. I just listened to the album a couple weeks ago in my car, again on a run of the HD Tracks versions of SC, BC&SL, ADTOE, and DT12, and I think I like it a bit more than I remember, but as I said above, I really only like the second half of the album, except some of IT. After EM, the album really picks up for me, with a killer three-song-run of TBP/BTV/STR.

If the album had been the following track list, it would've made for a killer single LP (with roughly 27 minute sides, which is stretching the limits of a side of vinyl):
Side A
The Enemy Inside
The Bigger Picture
Behind The Veil
Surrender To Reason

Side B
Along For The Ride
Illumination Theory

Maybe in a few more years, I'll finally come around to enjoying the whole album, but compared to ADTOE and d/t (and not counting TA), it's easily my least favorite of the MM-era albums. I just enjoy ADTOE and d/t more, and I get that the band were trying new things with DT12, but some of it just doesn't stick the landing for me still.

-Marc.

[ytserush]

Liked it then.

Still like it now although The Enemy Inside and Behind The Veil are just OK.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Hasn't aged as well as I would have hoped. Still a decent record, but nothing too special from the band. Production is of course pretty bad.

I really enjoy the concise approach to songwriting on here though (seriously, there are several tracks on ADTOE and BC&SL that don't need to be 10+ minutes long), I just wish it were more memorable. Standout songs for me are TEI, BTV, and IT.

[Herrick]

I'm surprised the production turns so many of you off. Other than the drums, I think the production is ok. Maybe that's because I'm used to listening to older Thrash & Death Metal, & some Black Metal that didn't have the best production.

[ThatOneGuy2112]

Production styles typically found in those genres though are used to amplify the aggressive nature of the music. Yeah, DT can be aggressive but not nearly as much as Mayhem for example.

My biggest problem with DT12's production is how shrill it sounds overall, the snares sound awful and JLB's vocals are stripped of all natural warmth with all of the reverb and unnecessary effects used on it.

[Volante99]

To me it’s overproduced, and sterilized.

There’s this glossy, digital, veneer over everything. Especially the drums and vocals. Nothing sounds “real” or live. Like DT brought to you by the same people who brought you Celine Dion.

TA had similar problems but at least the drum sound was a bit better.

I’d love to hear DT do one stripped down album (not too unlike ToT or even LTE), especially with Mangini.

[Drinktheater]

To me it’s overproduced, and sterilized.

There’s this glossy, digital, veneer over everything. Especially the drums and vocals. Nothing sounds “real” or live. Like DT brought to you by the same people who brought you Celine Dion.

TA had similar problems but at least the drum sound was a bit better.

I’d love to hear DT do one stripped down album (not too unlike ToT or even LTE), especially with Mangini.

Yeah like others said it sounds shrilled and over produced over processed in some parts the guitars are too distorted and over the top.

Songs like the Bigger picture and Surrender to reason may benefit from a more softer guitar sound the piece it self is not really "Super Metal oriented but the sound and tone is so like "Nu metal" it just does not fit in my opinion you can't hear the keyboard orchestration clearly.

[the_silent_man]

This album is a strange one for me.
When I think about it in my head, I feel it's unremarkable and 'DT by numbers', however when I actually listen to it, I enjoy it quite a bit.

The Enemy Inside is a REALLY great single and great metal song, Enigma Machine is fun as hell and Illumination Theory is awesome all the way through (even if the most unique bit about it isn't even played by DT.) Enjoy the intro track too, that was especially fun live with the animation.
The bigger picture is awesome after the first 2-3 minutes - I found the start of the song a bit unremarkable. The ending from "you look but cannot see" is probably my favourite part of the album.
Beneath the Veil is great but I'm not a fan of the chorus.

As for the others:
I always enjoy Surrender to reason but I can never remember anything about it after the song is over :/
Looking glass is just ok and a bit cheesy for me. Along for the ride is overty sugary and 'anthemic' for my liking, really not a fan of it and one of my least fav. ballads of theirs.

[hefdaddy42]

I still think it's fantastic.  I love this album.  Not quite top-tier for me, but definitely in the upper half of DT's output.

Illumination Theory is absolutely one of my favorite DT songs.

[gzarruk]

I still think it's fantastic.  I love this album.  Not quite top-tier for me, but definitely in the upper half of DT's output.

Illumination Theory is absolutely one of my favorite DT songs.

This!

[evilasiojr]

Not a remarkable album for at all.

But TBP is one of DT tracks ever, I don't know, I feel like I have a personal connection with the song. Just love it!

And TEI has aged really well for me actually. It has this great vibe, and it was a victim of the single factor for me back to the release time. I listened to it sooooo much before the album that when it came out I didn't care about the song. But now I really dig it.

[erwinrafael]

After seeing this thread resurface last night, I created a We Are Dream Theater playlist combining the DT and D/T albums, shuffling the songs to make it a proper double album. I love it.

[gzarruk]

After seeing this thread resurface last night, I created a We Are Dream Theater playlist combining the DT and D/T albums, shuffling the songs to make it a proper double album. I love it.

Where’s the link?

[erwinrafael]

After seeing this thread resurface last night, I created a We Are Dream Theater playlist combining the DT and D/T albums, shuffling the songs to make it a proper double album. I love it.

Where’s the link?

We Are Dream Theater

"Disc 2" starts with Viper King.

[SeRoX]

This is my Spotify list which includes songs length above 9 min.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4coYws2J9IyFXI3vrlBbsf

[Podaar]

This is my Spotify list which includes songs length above 9 8 min.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4coYws2J9IyFXI3vrlBbsf

[JediKnight1969]

I give it a try every now and then, but it's useless: I don't like it.

[Dublagent66]

Behind The Veil, The Looking Glass and The Enemy Inside are still pretty good.  I listen to those songs regularly.

[gzarruk]

After seeing this thread resurface last night, I created a We Are Dream Theater playlist combining the DT and D/T albums, shuffling the songs to make it a proper double album. I love it.

Where’s the link?

We Are Dream Theater

"Disc 2" starts with Viper King.

Great!

[Drinktheater]

Aside from DT12 I think another good nickname for this album should be "Illumination theory"

Or maybe "Surrender"

As the concept of Surrender is mentioned in three of its songs, Surrender to reason,Along for the ride and illumination theory.

 And somewhat part of the message in The bigger picture.

[Max Kuehnau]

Still my second (or "other") favourite DT album along with ADTOE musically and from a drumming perspective (I just don't need the pathos that is unneccessarily exhibited on both these records, and MM could have played even more notes, but it's nice as it is)

[gzarruk]

Aside from DT12 I think another good nickname for this album should be "Illumination theory"

Or maybe "Surrender"

As the concept of Surrender is mentioned in three of its songs, Surrender to reason,Along for the ride and illumination theory.

 And somewhat part of the message in The bigger picture.

I remember JP said around that time that they wanted to name it Illumination Theory before they decided making it a self-titled.

[Drinktheater]

Aside from DT12 I think another good nickname for this album should be "Illumination theory"

Or maybe "Surrender"

As the concept of Surrender is mentioned in three of its songs, Surrender to reason,Along for the ride and illumination theory.

 And somewhat part of the message in The bigger picture.

Oh I see it makes sense as it is the strongest piece in that album imho.

 
I remember JP said around that time that they wanted to name it Illumination Theory before they decided making it a self-titled.

[Max Kuehnau]

Aside from DT12 I think another good nickname for this album should be "Illumination theory"

Or maybe "Surrender"

As the concept of Surrender is mentioned in three of its songs, Surrender to reason,Along for the ride and illumination theory.

 And somewhat part of the message in The bigger picture.

I remember JP said around that time that they wanted to name it Illumination Theory before they decided making it a self-titled.

which would have been a title I would have liked quite a bit to be honest

[gzarruk]

Aside from DT12 I think another good nickname for this album should be "Illumination theory"

Or maybe "Surrender"

As the concept of Surrender is mentioned in three of its songs, Surrender to reason,Along for the ride and illumination theory.

 And somewhat part of the message in The bigger picture.

I remember JP said around that time that they wanted to name it Illumination Theory before they decided making it a self-titled.

which would have been a title I would have liked quite a bit to be honest

Definitely! It fits the cover art quite nicely, same as ADTOE/Bridges in the Sky.

[Thoughtspart3]

I like many of the songs o this album but the snare sound and the production really drag it down for me.  I would love to get a remastered version. Behind the Veil is probably my favorite.  Overall though I don't have much desire to listen to it unfortunately. I hate saying that about a DT album.