Author Topic: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album  (Read 9063 times)

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Offline dparrott

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #175 on: September 08, 2018, 02:10:36 PM »
I haven't listened to the album since then, but I still wear the shirt with the cover on it!
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #176 on: September 09, 2018, 07:35:35 AM »
All this Surrender to Reason talk has me happy, killer song. Underrated IMO.

Absolutely.  The more I listen to it, the more I think it has to be in the "best songs of the Mangini era" discussion. :hat

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #177 on: September 09, 2018, 04:55:40 PM »
Without a doubt.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #178 on: February 21, 2019, 11:47:40 AM »

Listened to it again and I appreciate it more now.

And  Surrender,Trust and Passion make me more emotional now.


Online Zydar

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #179 on: February 21, 2019, 11:51:06 AM »
Still my favourite album from the MM era. Let's see if D/T can take its place.

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #180 on: February 21, 2019, 11:54:28 AM »
Still my least favorite of the MM Era.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Online Zydar

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #181 on: February 21, 2019, 11:56:20 AM »
For me that honor will always belong to TA :P

Offline bosk1

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #182 on: February 21, 2019, 11:57:06 AM »
"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Offline CirclesSquared

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #183 on: February 21, 2019, 12:01:21 PM »
Surrender to Reason is fantastic. I also like The Looking Glass, Enigma Machine and a good part of Illumination Theory. The opening suite is really decent, too, very pompous in a good way. The rest I just cannot connect with.

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #184 on: February 21, 2019, 12:02:01 PM »
Hah!

It's honestly an album where I have no idea what they were going for.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #185 on: February 21, 2019, 01:05:46 PM »
I can do without Along for the Ride, but otherwise I still enjoy everything on this record a lot.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #186 on: February 21, 2019, 01:07:11 PM »
Funny, I am just listening to that song as we speak.  Still one of my faves.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #187 on: February 21, 2019, 02:06:28 PM »
I am hoping that they plan 'Surrender to Reason' in the opening set of the tour. Such an awesome song. I don't believe they've played it live yet.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #188 on: February 21, 2019, 02:09:00 PM »
I am hoping that they plan 'Surrender to Reason' in the opening set of the tour. Such an awesome song. I don't believe they've played it live yet.

They haven't, and I agree, this song NEEDS to be played :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #189 on: February 21, 2019, 02:51:05 PM »
I'd be surprised if it's not in the set.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #190 on: February 21, 2019, 03:50:35 PM »
100% with TAC on the self titled. I only revisit the album's first and final tracks anymore.
I'm slightly worried since a lot of people have been likening D/T to it but we'll see, there's more positive vibe than negative.
And as far as the set for the next tour, I'd make an easy bet that False Awakening is all we're gonna see from the self titled.
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Offline CirclesSquared

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #191 on: February 21, 2019, 03:57:46 PM »
I'm slightly worried since a lot of people have been likening D/T to it but we'll see, there's more positive vibe than negative.

I don't get that at all. To me D/T doesn't sound or feel anything like self-titled.
Perhaps they mean that it's all s/t aspired to be but fell short. Though I'm not sure many people made that link in the first place.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #192 on: February 21, 2019, 03:59:49 PM »
Good deal!
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline rab7

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #193 on: February 21, 2019, 04:01:28 PM »

Perhaps they mean that it's all s/t aspired to be but fell short. Though I'm not sure many people made that link in the first place.

Yes I think this is what they mean.

If I had to guess it's because John Petrucci described the S/t as having all of DT's elements, and being what DT is today.

And those who have heard the album say that D/T has exactly that.

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #194 on: February 21, 2019, 04:04:40 PM »
I'm slightly worried since a lot of people have been likening D/T to it but we'll see, there's more positive vibe than negative.

I don't get that at all. To me D/T doesn't sound or feel anything like self-titled.
Perhaps they mean that it's all s/t aspired to be but fell short. Though I'm not sure many people made that link in the first place.

I feel like D/T ties the three previous albums together.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline CirclesSquared

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #195 on: February 21, 2019, 04:10:59 PM »
I'm slightly worried since a lot of people have been likening D/T to it but we'll see, there's more positive vibe than negative.

I don't get that at all. To me D/T doesn't sound or feel anything like self-titled.
Perhaps they mean that it's all s/t aspired to be but fell short. Though I'm not sure many people made that link in the first place.

I feel like D/T ties the three previous albums together.

That may be, but D/T does more than just that, it cuts deeper and goes way back further than those three.

But I digress, let us stay on topic here. :)

Offline (nothing)

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #196 on: February 21, 2019, 04:34:07 PM »
I don't think it's one of their strongest albums, but I still like most of it and I think the approach they took after ADTOE was interesting. What I mean by that is that they played it safe with ADTOE in my opinion (which made sense, given the circumstances), then in DT12 they took some controlled risks with going for more concise songs, as far as structure at least because there are still lots of layers in terms of instrumentation.

Production-wise, the drums and in particular the snare... let's just say it's not for me.

In my mind, I have the tracks separated in tiers:

Tier 1 - Excellent
Illumination Theory
The Bigger Picture

Tier 2 - Very Good
The Enemy Inside
The Looking Glass

Tier 3 - Good
Enigma Machine
Behind The Veil
Surrender To Reason

Tier 4 - Meh
False Awakening Suite
Along For The Ride

Overall I think it's definitely in the lower half of their discography. I haven't listened to the new one yet and it will be a while before I form an opinion anyway but out of their first 13 I would put those in the Top 6:

I&W, Awake, SFAM, SDOIT, ToT, 8V

and although I'm not sure about #7, DT12 wouldn't be a strong contender so there's that. At that point it would be a die roll between FII, The Astonishing and ADTOE I think. I have WDADU the lowest by far so DT12 is somewhere in that tier with BC&SL and SC. All these albums have many things I like and some things I don't like... but mostly things I like.

Offline adamack

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #197 on: February 21, 2019, 06:02:25 PM »
One of my least favs. Really enjoyed it when it came out, but it has not aged well at all to me.

Really not a fan of the album's mix, particularly the way MM is mixed. His snare is sounding SO much better in the DoT song's I've heard so far might I add. Hell, his whole kit is sounding worlds better!

As for the songs on DT12, I actively dislike AFtR, TLG, EM, and FAS. Illumination Theory isn't as bad as those other 4, but it's their worst epic IMO and I never listen to it.

I love TEI and STR, and TBP and BTV are good.

For a DT album, I'd give it around a 6.7.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #198 on: February 21, 2019, 06:05:52 PM »
I only listen to The Bigger Picture, Surrender to Reason and Illumination Theory. It's not a bad album by any means, but hey. I think DoT is what this album tried to be, just better lol.

I loved this tour, tho. That show was so incredible.
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Offline jayvee3

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #199 on: February 21, 2019, 08:05:30 PM »
I really love a large portion of it, but definitely think the mix is actually an issue. For instance, I think MM’s drums in TLG are fucking amazing, but think it lacked appreciation due to them being buried in the mix.

The other issue I have with this one as well, is I can’t help but feel a few songs through the middle of the album - STR and BTV in particular - have these great moments and killer openings, but then feel somewhat “unfinished” and kinda go nowhere if that makes any sense? STR from that opening could have been an all time fave, but it’s barely repeated until the very closing moments which are the two best moments of the song. The middle kind of meanders a bit I feel. I actually also have this criticism of A Life Left Behind from TA to put it into context.

However, I also really like IT, TEI, TLG, AFTR and think EM is a heavily underrated instrumental. So a heck of a lot to like in there.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 08:10:37 PM by jayvee3 »

Offline Volante99

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #200 on: February 21, 2019, 11:42:37 PM »
DT12 - some of DT’s best material (The Bigger Picture, Surrender to Reason, The Looking Glass) more or less ruined by a limp production. What were they thinking on those drums sounds?! Oof

Illumination Theory has some great moments but really has no business being that long. Along For the Ride is also one of their cringiest songs.

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #201 on: February 22, 2019, 05:47:01 AM »
I love most of this album.

Illumination theory is one of my favorite DT songs in a long time.
Through the looking glass rocks and has a great flow
I LOVE surrender to reason
Bigger picture and Behind the veil sound decent as well

I just don't like Enigma machine which feels a little disjointed, and not well constructed. Just listen to The dance of eternity immediately after and you can hear a difference.

I also don't like the enemy inside, but Besides those minor nit picks, I love this album

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #202 on: February 22, 2019, 08:32:51 AM »
I am always a little surprised at how many weren't wild about Enigma Machine; I think it is great.  That evil riff that JP plays after the opening keyboard part, and then again at the end, is so awesome.

Offline TAC

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #203 on: February 22, 2019, 08:44:09 AM »
I am always a little surprised at how many weren't wild about Enigma Machine; I think it is great.  That evil riff that JP plays after the opening keyboard part, and then again at the end, is so awesome.

It's much better live. The studio version really has never jumped out at me.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #204 on: February 22, 2019, 05:25:24 PM »
Played a bunch of it today after a second listen of D/T. Still a great album.

Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #205 on: February 23, 2019, 07:31:49 AM »
Surrender to Reason is fantastic. I also like The Looking Glass, Enigma Machine and a good part of Illumination Theory. The opening suite is really decent, too, very pompous in a good way. The rest I just cannot connect with.

I love the illumination theory Musically specially the orchestral part and lyrically the Finale, But the pursuit of truth just feels lazy, along for the ride seems shallow and cliche to be honest atleast lyrically

Surrender to reason in terms of song writing is superb.

I like the bigger picture too it connects to me.

Offline lovethedrake

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #206 on: February 23, 2019, 07:56:06 AM »
I think its James' best vocals since SDOIT so I love it.  The songs are a bit generic but they are generally well written.

I VERY rarely put on False Awakening and I never liked The Enemy Inside so I usually start with the looking glass. 

I think its a pretty great album starting from the Looking Glass with the Enigma Machine the only occasional skipper.

I also think Behind the Veil is one of the most underrated DT songs.   Killer opening, great versus, one of the best modern JP solo's and a catchy chorus.

I place the album 8th on my album rankings for DT.

Offline SleeperAwake

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #207 on: March 10, 2019, 06:06:02 PM »
My least favourite DT album, mostly because of the production. But the songs are pretty weak as well.

The Bigger Picture, Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason are the highlights. I seem to remember that there are a couple of worthwhile minutes in Illumination Theory. Along for the Ride is also on this album.

I have no need to listen to the rest of the album ever again.

Offline DT1138

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #208 on: March 12, 2019, 07:34:10 PM »
I am always a little surprised at how many weren't wild about Enigma Machine; I think it is great.  That evil riff that JP plays after the opening keyboard part, and then again at the end, is so awesome.

+1

My favorite track on the album.  That riff is awesome.

I also love the part where JP plays that slow solo section starting at 3:37, the first time I heard it it gave me goosebumps.

Other tracks I like are The Enemy Inside and Illumination Theory.  The rest are just OK to me.

D/T is a new favorite by comparison.

Offline Jay T

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #209 on: March 12, 2019, 08:43:01 PM »
Of the four Mangini era albums, it’s my least favorite. But, it has grown on me quite a bit since being released into the wild.
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