Author Topic: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album  (Read 6258 times)

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Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #140 on: August 13, 2018, 08:05:40 AM »
I saw this thread, and it made me spin it again. I was immediately impressed with how well it’s aged. I wouldn’t call it a “safe” album...ADTOE was the safe album to me. But this is “comfortable”.

It may not be adventurous, but the individual songs are so strong, well written, and arranged that the end product is extremely strong.

This is easily my favorite Mangini album, and maybe even a top 5 DT album. It’s certainly climbed my ranking list after this spin.
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Online Nekov

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #141 on: August 14, 2018, 09:05:16 AM »
I saw this thread, and it made me spin it again. I was immediately impressed with how well it’s aged. I wouldn’t call it a “safe” album...ADTOE was the safe album to me. But this is “comfortable”.

Same for me on the bolded part. I hadn't listened to the album in a long while and I'm finding myself enjoying it a lot. However I do think it was a safe album, while ADTOE was more experimental. But hey, opinions  :)
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #142 on: August 14, 2018, 09:07:07 AM »
My issue is that I just don't think it really extends DT in any direction.  I actually find ADTOE more diverse.
I mean, I do like it a lot, though.
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Online Nekov

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #143 on: August 14, 2018, 09:09:20 AM »
Still think it's pretty solid. Is it Dream Theater by numbers?  Yeah. It's a pretty safe record for them.

They seem to be getting more adventurous more recently, and for me, that's a good thing.

And people hated them being adventurous (The Astonishing), so I suspect they're going to revert to DT by numbers for album 14.

To me the problem with TA is not that they tried being adventurous, I'm all up for experimenting and looking for new ways to do music. But I felt like it was a bland album. I listen to it and nothing sticks out or catches my attention.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #144 on: August 14, 2018, 09:17:54 AM »
Nekov, I love TA. I understand what you are saying. If anything, they moved the music along too quickly. I mean, there are 30 seconds of just about very track, that is fleshed out a bit longer, would be amazing.


 
When Indiscipline gets around to TA in his Scenes thread, he'll point these out very succinctly.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #145 on: August 14, 2018, 10:27:19 AM »
My issue is that I just don't think it really extends DT in any direction.

For me, at least, the self-titled was the step DT needed to take in order to remove the idea of bloat = progressive that crept into their writing from SDOIT onwards (with BC&SL as the posterboy of that phase).

Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #146 on: August 14, 2018, 10:29:43 AM »
When Indiscipline gets around to TA in his Scenes thread, he'll point these out very succinctly.

Considering I'll be 87, my prostate time-outs will warrant amazing prose brevity.

By the way, TA is my favourite DT album excluding I&W, which is my favourite album.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #147 on: August 14, 2018, 10:57:03 AM »
My issue is that I just don't think it really extends DT in any direction.

For me, at least, the self-titled was the step DT needed to take in order to remove the idea of bloat = progressive that crept into their writing from SDOIT onwards (with BC&SL as the posterboy of that phase).

This may seem like a small point, but I don't think "bloat = progressive" was ever part of the equation.  I think it is more along the lines of, "'progressive' can unintentionally facilitate bloat."  Again, it may seem like a small point, but I don't think it is an insignificant one.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #148 on: August 14, 2018, 11:40:30 AM »
I saw this thread, and it made me spin it again. I was immediately impressed with how well it’s aged. I wouldn’t call it a “safe” album...ADTOE was the safe album to me. But this is “comfortable”.

Same for me on the bolded part. I hadn't listened to the album in a long while and I'm finding myself enjoying it a lot. However I do think it was a safe album, while ADTOE was more experimental. But hey, opinions  :)

My only reasoning on that is the similarities to IAW....which, for the record, I thought was a rather good idea. Let people know we’re still Dream Theater.  It was The Force Awakens that they needed at the time.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #149 on: August 14, 2018, 01:00:02 PM »
It is still my favorite Mangini era album, and it definitely stands in the upper half of the band's discography for me. I personnally think Enigma Machine is one of their best instrumental. I find the main riff just so fun and catchy. The long drum fill that connects Paradoxe de la Lumičre Noire and Live, Die, Kill in Illumination Theory is one of my favorite moment in the band's catalog. With that said I can get the production issues that people frequently bring up. Like I hear that the snare doesn't sound like an usual snare or that the whole album is kind of loud, but fortunately for me it never got to a point where it bothered me at all.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #150 on: August 15, 2018, 11:10:20 PM »
My issue is that I just don't think it really extends DT in any direction.

For me, at least, the self-titled was the step DT needed to take in order to remove the idea of bloat = progressive that crept into their writing from SDOIT onwards (with BC&SL as the posterboy of that phase).

This may seem like a small point, but I don't think "bloat = progressive" was ever part of the equation.  I think it is more along the lines of, "'progressive' can unintentionally facilitate bloat."  Again, it may seem like a small point, but I don't think it is an insignificant one.

Well, I don't mean bloat. I definitely don't mean bloat.  I just mean....I don't know what the right word is..interesting, maybe. Challenging? I mean, I wouldn't want to take for granted what DT does, and it's not that I don't like it, but it just feels a bit too concise for me.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #151 on: September 04, 2018, 01:43:01 AM »
Been wanting to hear again the album after this thread, finally did it yesterday.

I'm still not totally convinced about The Looking Glass.

I still think The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil are the best songs in here.

I didn't remember Surrender to Reason was SO good, damn.

Illumination Theory is quite good but there's some bloat here and there (intro and solo before the final part), not their best big epic but still a good song with a wonderful climax.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #152 on: September 05, 2018, 08:44:03 AM »
Surrender to Reason is definitely super underrated, IMO. I remember it was one of my favorites when it came out back in 2013. I love the melodies and even the dirty guitar solo-ish thing in the middle.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #153 on: September 05, 2018, 10:28:02 AM »
Surrender to Reason is definitely super underrated, IMO. I remember it was one of my favorites when it came out back in 2013. I love the melodies and even the dirty guitar solo-ish thing in the middle.
The dirty guitar solo reminds me of the solo in By-Tor and the Snowdog from Rush's Fly by Night album. 
I also agree MirrorMask that The Bigger Picture and Behind the Veil are the two best tracks on the album besides the epic.
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Offline DP_Gumby

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #154 on: September 05, 2018, 01:28:32 PM »
5 years in, I have no real issues with the album other than the mix, it could perhaps be a tad clearer like on ADTOE. But I'm fine with what we got.
Though I'm still waiting for Behind The Veil to be played live, after 5 years, when DT are playing in Norway.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #155 on: September 05, 2018, 07:42:35 PM »
Surrender to Reason is definitely super underrated, IMO. I remember it was one of my favorites when it came out back in 2013. I love the melodies and even the dirty guitar solo-ish thing in the middle.

My favorite on the album after IT. It's :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #156 on: September 05, 2018, 07:46:36 PM »
The last few weeks, I have not been able to get enough of this album.  The more I'm spinning it, the more I'm enjoying it, and the more it climbs my list.   They wanted to make a statement by calling the album Dream Theater, and I think they achieved that.   It's one of those small handful of releases where there is not even one skip track to me.   

This may have just gone up to #4 on my list.   Not sure anything will ever topple 8V, SFAM, and IAW at this point.    All other albums have a low spot for me.   Awake has Lie, SDOIT has The Great Debate....and don't get me wrong.  Those aren't *BAD* songs at all.  If I hear them once every few years I think they are kindof "neato", but repeated listens just make me "meh".   
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #157 on: September 05, 2018, 07:47:31 PM »
I love Surrender To Reason, but it somehow seems lost on this album. And no, I cannot explain this comment.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #158 on: September 05, 2018, 07:52:20 PM »
The more I'm spinning it, the more I'm enjoying it, and the more it climbs my list.   They wanted to make a statement by calling the album Dream Theater, and I think they achieved that.   It's one of those small handful of releases where there is not even one skip track to me.   

Completely agree, specially the bolded part. Even ADTOE has some songs that I don't like that much (FFH and BMU, BMD  for example), but the self titled is just pure awesomeness from start to finish :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #159 on: September 05, 2018, 08:23:11 PM »
I love Surrender To Reason, but it somehow seems lost on this album. And no, I cannot explain this comment.

It's interesting because this is by far the song that took the longest to grow on me.   The rest of the album has a genuine and beautiful "flow" to it.  But it hits a bit of a bump on that song.   Not in a "not as good" kinda way, but more like a "we had this really kick ass song that didn't really fit the feel of the rest of the album....but we had the space, and the JM lyrics, so...."
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Offline YtseJam

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #160 on: September 05, 2018, 08:47:52 PM »
I'm going to give it a re-listen because of this thread. I've found myself very distant since the departure of Portnoy and not for that reason. Very indifferent on the albums as a whole whereas I seldom skipped tracks prior. I do feel as though this album had the potential to be refined into a masterpiece or maybe it was just on the cusp of having catchy tunes but fell short after it blew it's load.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #161 on: September 05, 2018, 08:52:18 PM »
I'm going to give it a re-listen because of this thread. I've found myself very distant since the departure of Portnoy and not for that reason. Very indifferent on the albums as a whole whereas I seldom skipped tracks prior. I do feel as though this album had the potential to be refined into a masterpiece or maybe it was just on the cusp of having catchy tunes but fell short after it blew it's load.

My personal favorites are Behind the Veil and The Bigger Picture (the *endings* of both those songs in particular are among the most amazing endings I've ever heard from the band).
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #162 on: September 07, 2018, 11:38:03 AM »
I love Surrender To Reason, but it somehow seems lost on this album. And no, I cannot explain this comment.

Wasn't that a "lyrics by Myung" song?

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #163 on: September 07, 2018, 11:39:38 AM »
Yes.

Offline Trav86

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #164 on: September 07, 2018, 01:59:51 PM »
Though I'm still waiting for Behind The Veil to be played live

It was played on the summer 2015 tour.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #165 on: September 07, 2018, 02:10:05 PM »
I love Surrender To Reason, but it somehow seems lost on this album. And no, I cannot explain this comment.

It's interesting because this is by far the song that took the longest to grow on me.   

It could just be a song placement issue.  I was just saying the same thing in the Redemption thread the other day about The Last of Me.  Perfectly fine song.  But being buried in "the middle of side 2" just made me take longer to notice it.  It's so late in the album.  IT is the gratuitous mega-epic to finish the album.  AFTR is the only "ballad," was a "single," and had the tour named after it, so would get noticed for those reasons.  It's hard to immediately notice and pay attention to the third song from the end, no matter how good it might be, if it doesn't have something specially calling attention to it.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #166 on: September 07, 2018, 03:25:40 PM »
I don't want to sound as an elitist who thinks his tastes in music are more sophisticate, but.... isn't song placement something important just for pop / easy music casual fans who need to have all the singles at the beginning of the album? if you have enough attention span to listen to 10 minutes long songs, I guess you'd notice if a particular song is to your liking no matter of its place in the tracklist, or how "big" are the songs near them. Sacrificed Sons gets a lot of praise on Octavarium and it's right before the show stealer (the title track).
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #167 on: September 07, 2018, 03:51:57 PM »
No
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #168 on: September 07, 2018, 06:16:24 PM »
No

This.

There is still such a thing as the “flow” of an album. Imagine if all the songs on Dark Side of the Moon were rearranged in random order. The songs would still be great, but the presentation would suffer tremendously.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #169 on: September 07, 2018, 06:58:17 PM »
Yes, flow is very important.


When I say it seems lost, I'll try and explain. I consider DT12 a somewhat bombastic album. I mean it sounds loud compared to ADTOE, but the songs themselves are very powerful. But Surrender To Reason just doesn't hit as hard, and kind of sneaks up on you. It's an amazing song.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #170 on: September 07, 2018, 07:34:48 PM »
Yes, flow is very important.


When I say it seems lost, I'll try and explain. I consider DT12 a somewhat bombastic album. I mean it sounds loud compared to ADTOE, but the songs themselves are very powerful. But Surrender To Reason just doesn't hit as hard, and kind of sneaks up on you. It's an amazing song.

Yes, it competes with IT as my favorite.

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #171 on: September 08, 2018, 09:04:26 AM »
Though I'm still waiting for Behind The Veil to be played live

It was played on the summer 2015 tour.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. But I have yet to see it performed live besides the summer festivals. And as a side note, I didn't go to any of those shows, therefore I have never heard the song live yet.  ;)
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Offline Trav86

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #172 on: September 08, 2018, 09:14:39 AM »
Though I'm still waiting for Behind The Veil to be played live

It was played on the summer 2015 tour.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. But I have yet to see it performed live besides the summer festivals. And as a side note, I didn't go to any of those shows, therefore I have never heard the song live yet.  ;)

There’s a pro-shot video on YouTube of them playing it at Wacken.  You should check it out. It’s pretty good!
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Offline DP_Gumby

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #173 on: September 08, 2018, 09:16:02 AM »
Though I'm still waiting for Behind The Veil to be played live

It was played on the summer 2015 tour.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. But I have yet to see it performed live besides the summer festivals. And as a side note, I didn't go to any of those shows, therefore I have never heard the song live yet.  ;)

There’s a pro-shot video on YouTube of them playing it at Wacken.  You should check it out. It’s pretty good!

That I might do.  :metal
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #174 on: September 08, 2018, 02:02:35 PM »
All this Surrender to Reason talk has me happy, killer song. Underrated IMO.