Author Topic: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album  (Read 6239 times)

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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #105 on: July 11, 2018, 07:29:07 PM »
My least favorite DT album, behind their WDADU. I only like Illumination Theory and the intro suite. Otherwise pretty much what Stewie said, especially about Enigma Machine.
I wish we had a BR release from The Astonishing tour instead of this one, although SDV from Breaking Fourth Wall is boss.
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Offline Robo4900

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #106 on: July 11, 2018, 08:14:01 PM »
I love it.

Knew it'd be an instant classic for me when I first heard it, and I've never gone back on that. While Dramatic Turn was an exercise in delivering the most clasically Dream Theater album they could produce, ironically enough the self-titled album went a bit more outside the box, exploring a wider range of sounds, and giving more of a feeling of the band moving forward into new territory.
DT12 isn't exactly the band's most different album(No-where near as much of a lateral move as Astonishing would be, for instance), but it was a breath of fresh air after the somewhat samey(Though still really awesome for what it was) Dramatic Turn album, and honestly, I really like every song on the album. Wouldn't skip a single track, and would be happy to hear any of them come up on shuffle, or just to listen to the whole album.

Really, my only complaint with DT12 is the fact the CD release is too compressed, muddy, and loud. But even through this poor mastering, the songwriting and performances shine through, and I'm very happy with it. Self-titling it was a bold move, but made a statement I can totally understand and get behind.
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Offline LCArenas

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #107 on: July 11, 2018, 09:33:22 PM »
I revisited it a year ago and I found it better than what I expected. It may not be ADTOE, which is a top 5-6 DT album for me, but a year ago I thought it had aged well. I'll revisit again now and post impressions.

Offline Trav86

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #108 on: July 14, 2018, 06:40:21 AM »
A top 5 DT album for me. I think they succeeded in what they set out to do with it.  Along with I&W and ADTOE, it’s one of their most consistent albums.  Every song is solid, and it flows really well. It’s always an enjoyable listen for me!
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #109 on: July 14, 2018, 08:41:07 AM »
A top 5 DT album for me. I think they succeeded in what they set out to do with it.  Along with I&W and ADTOE, it’s one of their most consistent albums.  Every song is solid, and it flows really well. It’s always an enjoyable listen for me!

I agree. Consistent seems to be the right word to use when describing this album. Not their best album, but all of it is very very good.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #110 on: July 16, 2018, 12:38:10 AM »
Listened the other day - still hate the snare sound. I honestly don't know what the fuck any of those guys were thinking with that. Other than that, it still ranks pretty solid for me. I think the ending to TBP is still one of the greatest things DT has ever written. The whole song is fantastic, but that ending is unlike anything they've ever really written (lyrically and vocally). James sounds great on the album. I like everything except the way his voice sounds on the harmonies towards the end of AFTR, and the riffing he doesn't over JP's solo at the end of IT. But that's just due to my own personal taste.

Offline Pettor

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2018, 01:23:48 AM »
Ok so I know nothing technical about drums really. I know I love the SDOIT drum sound and I&W not as much by ear. But can someone explain the snare issue on this album to me? Like an example when the snare sound in DT is good and when it sounds bad on this album. I am not questioning, just really interested to understand what everyone is talking about.

I do remember listening to Enemy Inside (on this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDTYWwqchhQ) and thinking it sounds a LOT better in general. The snares are less "heavy" and more of "imph" instead of "omph". But is that really the big problem? I think the cymbals are what really stands out in that video compared to the album. They sound so clear and dynamic and the general sound i more "lively". I guess that's why I favor listening to the DT album songs on The 4th Wall because they sound alive and awesome :)

Edit: Starting to analyze the album and Youtube video I must say that the drum sound at 4:15 is bad on the album and quite different on the Youtube video. It's hard to understand what's even going on the album at that time because it's all muffled but on the video it's crystal clear.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2018, 01:38:15 AM by Pettor »

Online erwinrafael

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2018, 01:57:16 AM »
The issue with the snare sound is that it is tuned so low. It's becoming some sort of trend nowadays, with Icefish doing it with Virgil Donati's drums, but the snare in the DT album is really low. The problem with it, as noted by Mangini, is that he really can not play ghost notes too much with that tuning, which is why he experimented and transferred many of the ghost notes to his ride sources.

Offline ytserush

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #113 on: July 17, 2018, 03:53:38 PM »
Still think it's pretty solid. Is it Dream Theater by numbers?  Yeah. It's a pretty safe record for them.

They seem to be getting more adventurous more recently, and for me, that's a good thing.

Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #114 on: August 04, 2018, 08:26:46 AM »
I love it and kinda wish I was able to attend the tour for it.

For me it is as better as their classic stuff I prefer it than Asthonishing

Offline RandalGraves

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #115 on: August 04, 2018, 09:48:38 AM »
Some really cool opinions in this thread. I just gave it a quick listen to "refresh" and I actually really love the album (production aside)...up until the latter half. Illumination Theory is great, but the three tracks that really kill it for me are Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride (the former of which is one of my least favorite DT songs). Looks like I'm in the minority on that one, as I've seen BTV and STR show up on a lot of people's 'favorites' lists. While I'm at it, I also really enjoy Enigma Machine, which looks to be a lot of people's least favorite.

Despite the majority of tracks I like, there's just something about the album that doesn't pull me back in like ADTOE or even The Astonishing.


Offline Drinktheater

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2018, 12:16:33 PM »
Some really cool opinions in this thread. I just gave it a quick listen to "refresh" and I actually really love the album (production aside)...up until the latter half. Illumination Theory is great, but the three tracks that really kill it for me are Behind the Veil, Surrender to Reason and Along for the Ride (the former of which is one of my least favorite DT songs). Looks like I'm in the minority on that one, as I've seen BTV and STR show up on a lot of people's 'favorites' lists. While I'm at it, I also really enjoy Enigma Machine, which looks to be a lot of people's least favorite.

Despite the majority of tracks I like, there's just something about the album that doesn't pull me back in like ADTOE or even The Astonishing.

I guess its because the Album is sort of fragmented its like the SDOIT but shorter  while the ADTOE has some grand vibe to it. And offcourse the Astonishing is a huge concept Album. 

My most favorite in DT12 is "Illumination Theory"  the last part literally made me cry when I tried to analyze and feel the Music!  Or maybe I am just crazy and alcoholic  ???

Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #117 on: August 05, 2018, 06:48:42 AM »
My most favorite in DT12 is "Illumination Theory"  the last part literally made me cry when I tried to analyze and feel the Music!  Or maybe I am just crazy and alcoholic  ???

I’m not sure if you’re an alcoholic (though your username is a bit of a giveaway  :lol), but I do agree about the last section of IT. The “To really feel the joy in life” section is very emotional. My only nitpick with it is the ad-libbing on “never know” is just a bit too much for me. It’s in danger of spoiling it.

Offline DarkLord_Lalinc

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2018, 07:35:16 AM »
It's funny because even though I was not this album's greatest fan, I find myself listening to it pretty often (more than other DT albums that I like more than this one).

It's really enjoyable if you just turn off your mind (nugg8t?) and just let it be what it is without constantly thinking of DT's other work and going like "hey, obviously this ISN'T DT's greatest instrumental!".

It's just a fun record. Illumination Theory is incredible, tho.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #119 on: August 05, 2018, 04:09:37 PM »
Yes, it’s very accessible. Very clearly a focus on concise song-writing featuring strong melodies. Because of the song-writing I can tolerate that horrible snare.

Offline Valor

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #120 on: August 05, 2018, 09:14:38 PM »
Most underappreciated DT album.

Offline Dellers

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #121 on: August 06, 2018, 02:49:25 AM »
I don't like this album at all, really. I may listen to Illumination Theory once a year, and that's about it. Surrender To Reason is decent, but not more. The other songs are boring to me, perhaps too Rush-like (I find Rush to be very boring). The production is the weakest I've heard from any band this side of 2000, and the CD version even has severe audio issues like clipping. I had to buy the version available at HDtracks to be able to listen to the record, my ears simply couldn't take the normal version. I love ADTOE (except that there's a couple of ballads too many), so I was surprised that they released something I genuinely don't even like so shortly after.
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Offline Addy

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #122 on: August 06, 2018, 04:20:38 AM »
Decent. I like a couple of songs - TBP is 10/10 great, BTV is cool, so is TLG. The rest... well I don't know, let's say I'm not crazy about it. IT has it's moments, but the middle part is so outta place it's like there's three separate songs in one. Same problem that "Tuscany" had. Nowhere near their older epics. It almost feels like they lacked ideas but really wanted to hit 20:00 mark.

TEI is so below their capabilities, EM lacks something that i.e. SOC had and the rest of the songs sound like fillers.

It's by far the worst sounding DT album though. The loudness and DR are horrible, drums sound like samples, bass is almost inaudible and everything is so overcompressed. And what happened to JP's tone on this one? I loved his sound on BC&SL and ADTOE, but this one and The Astonishing sound muddy and boxy in the guitar department. Yes, I struggle listening to it even in the HDTracks version.

I like Mangini's work on this one. It'd be really enjoyable with the right production.

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #123 on: August 06, 2018, 09:15:07 AM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #124 on: August 06, 2018, 01:34:29 PM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

Has always been audible to me, but then again, my car stereo makes the bass in And Justice for All audible, so it's probably a bad reference point.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #125 on: August 06, 2018, 01:57:08 PM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

Has always been audible to me, but then again, my car stereo makes the bass in And Justice for All audible, so it's probably a bad reference point.

Bass is very audible (and rocking :metal) on DT12.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Adami

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2018, 05:05:13 PM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

Audible? Yes.

Terrible tone? Yes.
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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #127 on: August 07, 2018, 02:33:07 AM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

Audible? Yes.

Terrible tone? Yes.

It is too trebly. But it is audible.

JMX reportedly liked the sound of his bass in this album, calling it aggressive. For me, the tone did work in songs like Surrender to Reason.

Offline Addy

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #128 on: August 07, 2018, 02:36:45 AM »
"Bass is almost inaudible" is the weirdest thing I have read somebody say about the self-titled.

OK, let me rephrase that. You can feel the low end for sure. But can you hear the actual bass parts? It's hidden behind the wall of guitars and also mostly follows JP. I like present bass, but there's very little of it on DT12.

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #129 on: August 07, 2018, 03:00:00 AM »
Is the bass indeed hidden behind the wall of sound and just follows what JP's guitars are doing? It's not what I am hearing in Surrender to Reason. Nor in The Looking Glass (especially in the guitar solo part). Or Enigma Machine (the trebly tone might throw you off but the rhythm part is mostly JMX's bass)? How about the bass playfully playing a counter-melody to the keyboard solo in Along For The Ride? Or the bass playing counterpoints in the instrumental of the Live, Die, Kill section of Illumination Theory? Or the bass line that matches Mangini's wicked odd meter intro to the Pursuit of Truth section of IT?

Offline Addy

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #130 on: August 07, 2018, 04:59:25 AM »
Ok, you mentioned 6 sections of a 70 minute album. I didn't state that he follows guitar the whole time.

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #131 on: August 07, 2018, 06:24:12 AM »
I wish they’d remix and remaster this album.
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Offline Addy

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #132 on: August 07, 2018, 06:48:00 AM »
I wish they’d remix and remaster this album.

Try HDTracks master. It's more dynamic, not limited as much and has higher bitrate. Check this out:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108210

vs

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108208

HD version doesn't solve all the problems, but it's better: http://www.hdtracks.com/dream-theater

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #133 on: August 07, 2018, 07:01:26 AM »
Ok, you mentioned 6 sections of a 70 minute album. I didn't state that he follows guitar the whole time.

Well, thr bass is audible to me the whole album, I just highlighted these parts that clearly contradict your claim that the bass is inaudible in this album.

Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #134 on: August 07, 2018, 07:18:06 AM »
Or the bass line that matches Mangini's wicked odd meter intro to the Pursuit of Truth section of IT?
Isn't it the other way round, though? Doesn't Mangini always look for ways to match what the others are playing?
(That's a great section, anyway!)

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #135 on: August 07, 2018, 04:47:45 PM »
It's because Mangini reportedly is the one who came up with the idea in that part.  :metal

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #136 on: August 08, 2018, 07:50:53 AM »
I wish they’d remix and remaster this album.

Try HDTracks master. It's more dynamic, not limited as much and has higher bitrate. Check this out:

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108210

vs

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/108208

HD version doesn't solve all the problems, but it's better: http://www.hdtracks.com/dream-theater

While there is probably some placebo effect going on, I have always felt that the HD Tracks version sounds significantly better, especially the drums. The sound of the album does not bother me as much.
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #137 on: August 08, 2018, 08:16:07 AM »
Still think it's pretty solid. Is it Dream Theater by numbers?  Yeah. It's a pretty safe record for them.

They seem to be getting more adventurous more recently, and for me, that's a good thing.

And people hated them being adventurous (The Astonishing), so I suspect they're going to revert to DT by numbers for album 14.
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Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #138 on: August 08, 2018, 11:51:13 AM »
It's because Mangini reportedly is the one who came up with the idea in that part.  :metal
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Offline borzo

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Re: Five Years Later: Self-Titled Album
« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2018, 02:33:09 AM »
I still find it bad and can't listen to it. So far the worst they did in my opinion.