Author Topic: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs  (Read 79516 times)

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Offline Azyiu

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The almighty dollar. The hype, the increased ad revenue, etc. It's all about the money. It just so happens that this year it gives KD a longer time to recover and contribute. But its all about the money.

On second thought, while you might be somewhat correct; I think the schedule is created this way to avoid conflicts with the Stanley Cup Finals?
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Offline jingle.boy

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They could both (arena availability dependent) go alternating nights.  But both leagues have dropped additional days in there for no apparent reason.  Every other playoff round is done in a 1-on/1-off manner (regardless of travel), so I'm not sure why the Finals need to be so spread out.
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Offline Samsara

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I think the greater point here is that there are many variables that could have changed and swung the series. For example, FVV not hitting every shot in Games 5-6. But what people always seem to harp on is "Superstar X should have done Y better!" It's not that the observation is wrong, it's just that people focus on that kind of thing with a laser, and usually just when the player loses. If the Bucks won the series and Giannis played exactly the same way, I am sure that some people would still be talking about how bad his jump shot is, but most of the conversation would revolve around how amazing it was that Giannis led the Bucks to the Finals. Basically... What people focus on tends to shift based on winning/losing, and the best players usually get 100% of the blame or 100% of the credit.

I'm talking more generally here. I actually agree with every point you've made thus far! I'm just commenting on... I guess... The way people talk about basketball sometimes.

No, I hear ya. I really do. And yes, people DO harp on the "superstars." But you also have to call it like you see it. The Raptors shut Giannis down. Why? Because they took away his "A" game, and his "B" game was not good enough to sustain them. And Giannis' teammates saw that, so when Giannis deferred to them, they weren't able to deliver. Had the Bucks won, and their role players came through in a big way, yes, people would be focusing less on Giannis. But the Warriors would have seen that, and made it even tougher.

Giannis WILL be the best basketball player on the planet. And it might be next year. But he's not quite developed yet. I think the Bucks had a tremendous season. Going from being ousted in the first round, to losing in the ECF. Next year? Finals. And they may, depending on where the balance of power is, win it all next year. But Giannis' next step is developing that jumper. If I'm him, I take a couple weeks off, and then just start shooting thousands of jumpers a day from distance, with the right coach, and develop that motion.

The old coach in me saw a couple of times how he shot from his palm instead of his fingertips. I am sure he and the coaches all noticed it. But a small tweak could help his consistency. He has the range. He hit a few 3s. It's all about repetition, making sure the form is correct, and just dialing it in over the offseason. Gotta add something every summer. And Giannis will. You can see he's the type to just keep grinding away. The Bucks' future is SO bright with The Freak. Their fans should be elated over a great season. Making good offseason decisions, and the Bucks will be right back at it, with Giannis likely becoming a force on the perimeter. And when that happens, he'll be unstoppable. I see him, if he develops that shot, averaging 30+ next year...on only 18 shots. Close the lane, he pulls up and nails it, move up on him, you'll be dunked on.

p.s. no one here cares, but man, the Wolves just made a great hire with Sachin Gupta as Executive VIP to Gersson Rosas. Wolves' leadership really making huge strides. Can't wait to see how things develop this offseason and into next year.
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Offline bosk1

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Tonight!
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Offline jingle.boy

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Methinks this is going to be a closer game/series than many expect.
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I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline bosk1

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I really don't know what to expect.  Just excited to watch it play out (and hoping I can find a place in Mexico that is airing the games so that I actually CAN watch it all play out).
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Offline Samsara

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No one mentioned the news yesterday about Houston's willingness to dump everyone. Really interesting. Chris Paul and James Harden apparently had a big spat after losing. I can see the Lakers pursuing Chris Paul and uniting him with Lebron like they've both always wanted. I don't believe New Orleans will trade AD to the Lakers. So instead, you give up less to get Chris Paul, and put a portion of the banana boat crew together.

Paul and James both have (I think) three years on their current deals. So you go for a three-year window for the Lakers to win, and then reset. Makes a ton of sense.

Houston though...man, its like they are cleaning house. The Wolves sign away one of their best executives, HC D'Antoni's staff is getting fired, and reports are that they want to part with him too, and now making the roster completely available. CRAZY.
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Offline bosk1

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Yeah, I saw it.  Pretty wild.  But I really dislike that organization, and am a bit happy about seeing it in a shambles.  Looking in from the outside, it seems a bit dumb and shortsighted.  I mean, if you buy into the Warriors being broken up after this season (which I'm not betting on, but it IS the prevailing thought), why not stand pat, shore things up, and come back next year ready to step in as heirs apparent?  Since their stated goal has been "beat the W's and win a title," that seems to make the most sense.
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Offline Samsara

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Yeah, I saw it.  Pretty wild.  But I really dislike that organization, and am a bit happy about seeing it in a shambles.  Looking in from the outside, it seems a bit dumb and shortsighted.  I mean, if you buy into the Warriors being broken up after this season (which I'm not betting on, but it IS the prevailing thought), why not stand pat, shore things up, and come back next year ready to step in as heirs apparent?  Since their stated goal has been "beat the W's and win a title," that seems to make the most sense.

'm no fan of Harden or Paul. I think the organization realizes they can't beat the Warriors as currently constructed. They tried. It didn't work. So now they are resetting, waiting for the Warriors to eventually get a bit older and slower. Honestly, that makes sense to me. Even if the Warriors break up next season (which to me, just means Durant leaving, which I DO think is going to happen), I think Curry, Thompson, and Green will probably all be there, and still be dominant until age catches up. So Houston is dumping now, and biding their time, and I assume they'll get younger and developing so when the Ws are done, they'll be ready.

So I see why they are cleaning house, its just shocking to see it all happen. I think Chris Paul to the Lakers is going to happen. It just makes a ton of sense. But I wonder who might be willing to trade for Harden. I hate that guy, and his checkered past that everyone seems to hide (google Harden, and the night club threat and all that, you'll find it). And I hate his game, which I think the NBA needs to reign in with the rules and competition committee. He's a great player, but he's skirting the spirit of the rules.

Anyway, a lot of drama to look forward to this summer. Will be exciting to see how it all pans out.

Be safe in Mexico bosk. Didn't know you were traveling.
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Offline Lonk

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I expect the warrior to go home with the series 1-1. Win both home games and maybe losing game 5. If they lose game 5, the win the series at home on game 6.
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Offline jammindude

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Methinks this is going to be a closer game/series than many expect.
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Offline Azyiu

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It is first to win 4, and I picked this series to go 6 the Dubs, plus it is on the road, so I guess it is "ok" losing game 1... Still, you want to win game 1 in any series. And the AI injury sucks.

Honestly I prefer the Warriors to 3-peat, but even if they can't, I am fine with Toronto winning a title... It would feel weird, but I am cool with that.
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Offline jingle.boy

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I very much expect a different game tonight.  Game 1 of the last two series', the Raps dominated (shoulda won against the Bucks), and then got trounced in Game 2.  I hope they don't repeat that trend.  Plus, there's a chance that KD might be back, which totally changes the makeup.

Great team effort on offense when Leonard was looking a little off.  Defense won the game for them again.  I have no doubt the Dubs will adjust, but this is the best defense in the league after all.  Good to see them go with more than an 8-man bench - even though Powell and McCaw only saw a few minutes each.
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I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Wonderful effort from the Raps. Game 2 is obviously huge. If they win, then the Warriors need to go 4-1 in order to take the series. They could absolutely do it, but it's a big ask. I remain astounded by the Raptors defense. Please keep it up!
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Offline Samsara

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Pretty cool to see the Raps win game 1. Warriors looked a tick slow, rusty, etc. Expected that, but still thought they'd win. Game 2 is huge for both teams. I suspect, however, that the Warriors will win game 2 in blowout fashion. Hope I'm wrong and the Raps win it.
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Offline Azyiu

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Bleacher Report says KD could return for game 3 and/or 4.
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Offline KevShmev

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I'll be surprised if Durant plays in the finals.  I am sure they know he is hurt too much to play, but are keeping it quiet (as most teams would).

If that is true, the legacy of Steph Curry will be affected by these finals.  He needs to not only lead his team to the title, but he needs to be the MVP.  He is already on pace to be a historically great player (top 15, maybe even top 10), but he needs that finals MVP.  I think he could have gotten it in 2015, but he didn't, and here we are years later and he still doesn't have one.

All-time greats like Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson and Tim Duncan all won the finals MVP in their first finals appearance.

Larry Bird, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon and Kevin Durant all won it in their second finals appearance.

LeBron James and Isiah Thomas won it in their third finals appearance.

This is Curry's fifth finals appearance.  He needs that finals MVP. 

Offline Azyiu

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I'll be surprised if Durant plays in the finals.  I am sure they know he is hurt too much to play, but are keeping it quiet (as most teams would).

If that is true, the legacy of Steph Curry will be affected by these finals.  He needs to not only lead his team to the title, but he needs to be the MVP.  He is already on pace to be a historically great player (top 15, maybe even top 10), but he needs that finals MVP.  I think he could have gotten it in 2015, but he didn't, and here we are years later and he still doesn't have one.

All-time greats like Michael Jordan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Magic Johnson and Tim Duncan all won the finals MVP in their first finals appearance.

Larry Bird, Shaquille O'Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon and Kevin Durant all won it in their second finals appearance.

LeBron James and Isiah Thomas won it in their third finals appearance.

This is Curry's fifth finals appearance.  He needs that finals MVP.

No, he doesn't need that Finals MVP to be considered an All-time great. I bet he himself doesn't care about it either. I mean, I bet he'd rather be collecting championships than worrying about winning at least one damn Finals MVP award.

Besides, are you saying Curry won't be viewed as an All-time great if he never win that stinky award, despite the fact the Warriors have won multiple championships; plus we ALL know they likely wouldn't have won them without Curry in any of those years.
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Offline KevShmev

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No, he doesn't need that Finals MVP to be considered an All-time great. I bet he himself doesn't care about it either. I mean, I bet he'd rather be collecting championships than worrying about winning at least one damn Finals MVP award.

Of course he does (although we can debate how much).  Every great player cares about their legacy once they've reached all-time great status, and Curry is smart enough to know that never winning a finals MVP would be a slight ding on his, especially once he starts getting compared to other all-time greats, when is inevitable.


Besides, are you saying Curry won't be viewed as an All-time great if he never win that stinky award, despite the fact the Warriors have won multiple championships; 

No, I did not say that, and I am not saying that.

plus we ALL know they likely wouldn't have won them without Curry in any of those years.

Well, sure, but that was not the point of my earlier post.  I am talking about legacy.

Kevin Durant is another interesting one as far as legacy goes.  If he does not play in these finals, the result could enhance or diminish the two rings he won in 2017 and 2018.  Many are of the opinion that Durant was a luxury more than a necessity, and if they win this series without him, it will reinforce that "see, they don't need Durant to win" mentality, but if they lose without him, then we can see, "hey look at that, they did need Durant to win it all, after all."

And it affects Curry in that regard as well.  If the Warriors lose this series with Durant not playing, it will take a little bit of the shine off of Curry, since the attitude might be "the Warriors were 2-0 in the finals with Durant, and 1-2 without him."   But if the Warriors win this series without Durant, it will be a reminder to everyone of just how great Curry is (which I think is the likely scenario).  I have maintained for years that Curry is more valuable than Durant, and I suspect that will be even more evident in less than two weeks when the Warriors take this series in 6 with Durant not having played a minute of these finals.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 07:24:18 AM by KevShmev »

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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A Finals MVP will help Curry in the eyes of those who haven't been paying attention, but I think that everyone else already knows how great the guy is. During this five-year Warriors dynasty, Curry has not only been one of the best offensive players in the league, but also of all-time. Since 2015, he has ranked 1, 4, 3, 3, and 3 in terms of ESPN's RPM, which combines advanced plus-minus data with box score data. During that same span, Durant has only cracked the top ten once. Golden State are now 31-2 in their last thirty three games with Curry and without Durant, whereas Durant's record without Curry is closer to .500, I believe.

The biggest issue with Curry's value has always been injuries. In 2016, he was able to play deep into the playoffs, but health hindered his performance. Last year, Curry missed a ton of time, and was again hampered when he returned. Not winning a Finals MVP doesn't really matter to me, especially considering he probably should have won it in 2015.
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Offline Lonk

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1-1 gaining Home Court, I expect 1 game at home to be a blow out win of 20+
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Offline Azyiu

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The Dubs survived game 2... but with so many guys down all of a sudden, not sure how they will perform at home for game 3 & 4... KD may return though.

Also, I can be wrong on this, since I was only watching the game on my phone's small screen with no sound... I thought most of the 50/50 calls seemed to favor Toronto
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Offline jingle.boy

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The Dubs were in the bonus with like 5+ mins to play in the first half, so the whistles were in their favour there, and Cousins was playing pretty physical right from the opening tipoff.  I'd say the Raps were given a lot of leeway in the 2nd half though.  A lot of times I thought they got away with some hacks.  And Clay got away with a blatent goaltend in 1Q (blocking a Siakim dunk from under the mesh).

Dubs offense cranked it up in the 3rd, while the Raps offense fell asleep.  Down the home stretch, the Raps had a lot of good open looks, but couldn't close the gap.  Unforced turnovers didn't help them either.

Not sure why anyone would expect a 20+ point win.  I"m expecting this to go 6 or 7 games.
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Offline Samsara

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Losing Klay is rough. And they kept hinting during the broadcast that Steph Curry is sick. And Durant's not supposed to play until Game 4. Would be interesting if everyone was out, and they had to go old school and funnel the offense through Cousins...
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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I'm trying not to be pessimistic, but that seemed like the kind of game that we needed to win in order to win the series. Curry was sick and didn't start playing well until the second quarter, then Klay got injured and the Warriors basically didn't score until right at the end... Logically, we are still very much in it and it will probably be a long series, but as a fan, I can't help but feel that we missed a golden opportunity. Game 3 will be monstrous!
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Offline jingle.boy

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While I somewhat agree with your assessment, The Raps 'should' have had Game 1 vs the Bucks, and were able to overcome that loss.  So I'm not overly concerned about letting this one slip away.  I'd feel better had they been able to hold on to this one, but other than the Iguodala 3-pointer with 6 seconds left, the Dubs didn't sink a bucket for the last 5.5 minutes.  Whether that was a combination of the factors you listed above, good defense again, or some part of both doesn't really matter.  The 20-0 run, and a couple of missed wide open looks during the 4Q comeback were what did the Raps in.  Again... holding to the Dubs under 110pts shows that the defence is not the issue.  The Dubs bench (other than Cook's three 3s) was largely ineffective.
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Offline Samsara

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Summer free agency. You heard it here first. D'Angelo Russell (and his special Arizona Iced Tea) to Minnesota in a sign and trade that brings Dario Saric, Jeff Teague, and a pick to the Nets.
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If that is true, the nets must have talked to Kyrie or Kemba already. Otherwise getting rid of your all star point guard doesn't make much sense given the return they are getting
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Offline Samsara

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If that is true, the nets must have talked to Kyrie or Kemba already. Otherwise getting rid of your all star point guard doesn't make much sense given the return they are getting

I am betting Kyrie. Kyrie grew up a Nets fan, and just bought property in his hometown in NJ. I think its inevitable. And all that chatter about how Irving and Russell can play together...yes, but no. They are both too similar in how they play on the court. The Nets want to make a splash, and Kyrie is it. Plus with a return of say Saric (PF on cheap contract for two more years) who is a solid complementary piece, Teague (starting caliber guard on an expiring deal), and a first round pick, the Nets get depth, cap relief after next season, and future talent. Makes sense all the way around.

Again, just educated guesswork. But I think something of that nature will happen. D-Lo and Towns are good friends, and D-Lo is the type of PG we need. But the Wolves can't do it unless they shed Teague's 19-million, and Saric's 5 million -- which opens up 24, 25 million per for D-Lo in a sign and trade. We'll see.
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Say what? Holy moly!!

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Didn't David Backes just say the same thing? :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Azyiu

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Say what? Holy moly!!



Woo... someone sounds more bitter than a Guinness Stout  :lol  :loser:
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I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'.” - Bob Newhart
So wait, we're spelling it wrong and king is spelling it right? What is going on here? :lol -- BlobVanDam
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Offline jingle.boy

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I read that article... that quote makes him out to be a douche - which he was not in the article/interview.  He's just being honest to say that without the things that happened - including his sacrifices - over past number of years, the franchise would not have been on the path that led them to this years Finals.  The next line in that interview ... "You just have to sit back and understand, you are the reason so many things was even possible. To their credit, they probably felt like it was time to see what we could get to make that next jump.”
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I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Chad, you just don't say it.  Put the team in your rear view mirror.
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