NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs

[Samsara]

The Supermax was half a good idea before the Cap spiked. After that it just doesn't makes sense anymore. Players on a regular max still get to make a shitload of money. Plus, the supermax depends on people, players and journalists voting you into the all star game, which is completely ludicrous. The league and the owners should come up with better ways to make smaller markets more enticing.

Completely agree. The All Star stuff is a joke at this point.

As T-ski points out, NOLA didn't do a good job putting a good enough team around him. It's harder for a small market to do so, but look at how good Oklahoma has been, even having to let go of Durant and Harden. It can be done if the front office does things the right way, which in today's NBA seems to be less and less likely.

NOLA did a great thing by getting Cousins, and then having Holiday. But it fell apart once Cousins was let go. Had they kept Cousins, this might be different.

Davis signed a 5 year extension, he didn't have to, but he did.

I am aware, but hey, people change their minds all the time, and as I said before, I ultimately do not have a problem with a player trying to dictate where he works, and it goes without saying that teams will do whatever they can to break a contract (releasing or trading someone) as well, so the door swings both ways.

I agree with T-Ski. You sign a contract, and your work is work by contract, you honor that contract. That's something I have had a problem with from the get-go with players. YOU signed to be there. YOU get paid a lot of money to play a game for a living. Just because your work environment has made a turn for what you consider to be the worst, or you desire to leave, that's not your employer's problem. Not in a contract-based environment. I can understand players wanting to leave. But you signed a contract, you knew what was in it when you signed it, you honor it. Plain and simple. You can privately tell that employer that you'd like to be moved, but I completely disagree with how today's players take everything public.

NOLA drafted AD. AD could at least do them the courtesy of acting professionally regarding his desire to play elsewhere.

[KevShmev]

Yes, they sign a contract, but rookies basically have no choice but to sign a contract with the team that drafts that, or else they can sit out, not play and make no money.   

[Samsara]

Yes, they sign a contract, but rookies basically have no choice but to sign a contract with the team that drafts that, or else they can sit out, not play and make no money.

Yep, its called a collective bargaining agreement. That's in it. Negotiated and agreed to by the players.

The same thing with what I am complaining about -- the excessive movement. That was agreed to by the owners, whether they like it or not.

That's what those negotiations are for, and I am sure both those points will be on the table the next time the agreement is up for renewal. I can counterpoint you on anything regarding this Kev. Sorta pointless. I was just personally complaining out loud that I think anyone who legally agrees to bind themselves to something for a set period of time should honor that agreement instead of trying to weasel out of it. Its a matter of professionalism.

For me, I'm very curious where the next CBA goes for the NBA. I have a feeling that because all parties involved now make TONS more in revenue, there won't be a work stoppage. But I could see things getting very tense discussing player contracts and restrictions. The tampering is at an all time high and I could see the owners drawing a line in the sand to a degree to get back some control. I hope it doesn't come to that, but its very possible.

A lot of fans can't stand the labor stuff, but I'm glued to it (most likely due to what I do for a living), and find the negotiations fascinating.

[Nekov]

If you want to go with technicalities, the players actually sign a contract with the NBA, regardless of the team that makes the offer which is why any team can trade a player without their consent. One day you are in GSW and have a chance to win a ring, the next you are in Cleveland tanking, in a city that doesn't offer much and with other players that don't want to be there. If a player can be moved around the country without being asked which means sometimes relocating your family, finding a new home and everything else implied then I think it's fair to let them complain about their situation and trying to make the best of it whenever they get the chance.

Regarding this being an agreement, not everything is what people want them to be. A lot of these are compromises to avoid another lockout which hurts the whole product. In recent years the players realized that the game can't be played without them and have made steps towards taking control of the situation. Not all the results are great honestly, (the CAP situation a couple years ago was a result of something they asked for) but I think the game is fairer towards the players now.

[Samsara]

If you want to go with technicalities, the players actually sign a contract with the NBA, regardless of the team that makes the offer which is why any team can trade a player without their consent. One day you are in GSW and have a chance to win a ring, the next you are in Cleveland tanking, in a city that doesn't offer much and with other players that don't want to be there. If a player can be moved around the country without being asked which means sometimes relocating your family, finding a new home and everything else implied then I think it's fair to let them complain about their situation and trying to make the best of it whenever they get the chance.

Actually, that's not quite true, Nekov. For sure, rookies are on a rookie contract. But when you sign your extension, your agent is permit to negotiate the particulars of the extension, including no-trade clauses. Most do NOT, because you lose leverage with the money. Admittedly, its not until the rookie extension is finished (when players) are generally somewhere in their mid-to-late-20s, that players who have achieved a lot can demand more.

I don't have any sympathy for NBA players. The minimum salary for someone with ZERO experience in the league is over $830,000 per season. Those who have spent ANY time on an NBA roster are considered to have one year of experience, and that salary jumps to about $1,350,000 per season. So while there are hoops players have to jump through with their families if they are traded, that comes with the territory, and they are WELL compensated for any inconvenience they may have.

I've got friends who are high level company execs who make $300,000 or $400,000 per year, and are on the road continually, sacrificing a lot of family time to provide an upscale life for their families. NBA players get WAY more than that annually, and very few are actually traded (comparatively speaking). It's a part of the NBA lifestyle. If you're that good, you get drafted, and you're a decent player, that's part of the gig. There's a reason why these guys are now highly compensated. They are taken care of. Completely. Not to mention their pensions. I'm not saying they shouldn't still strive to get paid more -- of course they and their reps should. But if you sign a contract, fulfill it, and if you aren't happy, move on. This whole entitlement thing from guys in their 20s these days is just baffling.

Regarding this being an agreement, not everything is what people want them to be. A lot of these are compromises to avoid another lockout which hurts the whole product. In recent years the players realized that the game can't be played without them and have made steps towards taking control of the situation. Not all the results are great honestly, (the CAP situation a couple years ago was a result of something they asked for) but I think the game is fairer towards the players now.

Oh, I totally agree that something had to be done, and it IS fairer toward players. For sure. And like any labor group, they push for more and more, and the ownership pushes back. Both sides probably regret some of what they agreed to. But that's why there's negotiation and compromise. With the huge streams of revenue the game has brought in, particularly the last 15 years, I don't think there WILL be a work stoppage next time the CBA is up for renewal, but I do think both sides are going to dig their heels in a bit more this time around.

[jingle.boy]

Really not sure where the sympathy for the players is coming from.  The limitations of a players ability to move is prevalent in EVERY sport, and has been for ... ever?  Rookie's in every sport only have the right to sign with the team that drafted them - unless the player is undrafted.  This isn't a surprise to any professional sports athlete.  Cry me a river.  No one - NO ONE - is guaranteed a winning/successful franchise.  Otherwise all the best players would always end up on a very limited set of 'best' teams.  CBA's bring benefit to the league (no matter what sport) as a whole - owners AND players.  It may not always benefit one specific player to their specific wants and desires, but tough shit, AD.

And the CBA dictates the Ts and Cs of what rights players and owners have... as mentioned, AGREED TO BY THE PLAYERS UNION, so suck-it-the-fuck-up (AD), and commit to executing what your Union agreed to.  The more these players shirk their responsibilities in their contracts, the more the owners will use that against the PA for THEIR benefit in a CBA negotiation.

[T-ski]

Raps/Bucks tonight.  If the Bucks win they hold the series tie-breaker for the season.

Fear the Deer.

[Samsara]

Raps/Bucks tonight.  If the Bucks win they hold the series tie-breaker for the season.

Fear the Deer.

Leonard playing for the Raps? If so, will be an incredible game. I'll have to catch the replay.

Hell of a win by the Wolves last night. Down three PGs and their starting SF, they get a big game from 4th stringer Bayless, and a game winner from BIG KAT. I was so pissed off when Bayless hogged the ball at the end of regulation and missed two shots, when he was supposed to give it to KAT. And in OT, they barely scored, but that final shot by KAT, I knew it the moment it hit its apex. Just great rotation.

[jingle.boy]

Raps/Bucks tonight.  If the Bucks win they hold the series tie-breaker for the season.

Fear the Deer.

Leonard playing for the Raps? If so, will be an incredible game. I'll have to catch the replay.

All indications are 

@ T-Ski... the second tie-breaker is the Conference record, is it not?  The Bucks CURRENTLY hold that over the Raps (24-7 for Bucks; 22-9 for Raps), but there's still a few more games left 

[T-ski]

Raps/Bucks tonight.  If the Bucks win they hold the series tie-breaker for the season.

Fear the Deer.

Leonard playing for the Raps? If so, will be an incredible game. I'll have to catch the replay.

All indications are 

@ T-Ski... the second tie-breaker is the Conference record, is it not?  The Bucks CURRENTLY hold that over the Raps (24-7 for Bucks; 22-9 for Raps), but there's still a few more games left 

so a Bucks win separates them even further, I like it.

[Lonk]

Bye-Bye Porzingis  to the Mavs. Don't know how I feel about this trade. Porzingis is too injury-prone, and we are getting DeAndre Jordan. I think the Knicks wont this Trade, but I dont think it will make much of a difference in the long run.

[T-ski]

very interesting trade.

Knicks use Porzingis to unload all their bad contracts to open 2 max slots next summer and get back Dennis Smith Jr.

Mavs get Porzingis, but he says he'll sign his qualifying offer which makes him a FA after next season.

crazy stuff.

[Samsara]

On its face, obviously the Knicks trading the face of their franchise looks bad. But the deal could turn out to be pretty smart. While the Wolves are my #1, and have been, I became a fan of them by watching them play the Knicks in the 1989-90 season. So I've always considered the Knicks my #2 team, and of course, hometown team.

Here is why I think the trade is actually smart:

1. KP was NOT happy with what he saw with the Knicks. He saw all the losing, saw the way Enes Kanter was being phazed out, didn't like lots of little things. He was likely going to walk. The Knicks knew that, and knew that if they wanted to get more from him leaving than a pick (which would be the compensation from KP being a restricted FA instead of an unrestricted FA), they needed to do a deal.

2. The Knicks realized that they simply don't have their PG of the future on the roster. By getting Dennis Smith Jr., who has had a tough sophmore year, but clear was the PG the Knicks SHOULD have drafted, they correct a mistake, and I think DSJr. is going to be really good in New York.

3. You open up TWO max salary slots, because Jordan and Matthews are FAs after this year, and you've ridded yourself of a horrendous deal with Tim Hardaway Jr.

4. With two open max slots, a core of DSJr., Kevin Knox, Alonzo Trier, Mitchell Robinson, in the EAST, you slide in two big name FA (say Durant and Irving).

5. IF that happens, then you have this:

Robinson
Durant
Knox
Dennis Smith Jr. (would have to slide to the 2)
Kyrie Irving

>>>That starting 5, plus Alonzo Trier and some bench depth, gets you in the top-5 in the East.

6. IF the Knicks also end up getting the #1 pick (I think Jordan and Matthews will be bought out and waived), you add Zion Williamson to that mix. Then you have:

C - Robinson
PF - Williamson
SF - Durant
SG - Knox
PG - Irving

6th - DSJr (combo guard)

>>>That could compete for the East title. In as little as a year.

Now, that's a SHIT TON of "ifs." And I don't really think its going to happen that way. Let me repeat that -- I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. Those are best case scenarios. But Porzingis was going to leave, period. So the Knicks maximized what they could get, and set themselves up to be fiscally solid for the future as well, and major players moving forward. I think it was a brilliant move. But the optics of it are TERRIBLE.

The Wolves fan in me hates this. To think if KP resigns with the Mavs, seeing KP and Doncic, five times a year or whatever? Ugh.

But the Knicks, knowing KP was going to likely leave, made the absolute right move, even if it looks horrendous.

[T-ski]

Dallas is sending *2* first round picks to NY as well.

If Porzingis does sign the qualifying offer and becomes a FA, Dallas has nothing.

[Samsara]

Dallas is sending *2* first round picks to NY as well.

If Porzingis does sign the qualifying offer and becomes a FA, Dallas has nothing.

The two picks will be cool. The first is 2021, and unprotected. The second is 2023, and is 1-10 protected.

Porzingis has told Dallas he IS signing the QO.

[jingle.boy]

Weak 2nd quarter killed the Raps. Especially 3-point shooting. Great D by the Bucks ... completely blanketed the starting lineup.

Can't wait to have JV back.

[Nekov]

Dallas is sending *2* first round picks to NY as well.

If Porzingis does sign the qualifying offer and becomes a FA, Dallas has nothing.

The two picks will be cool. The first is 2021, and unprotected. The second is 2023, and is 1-10 protected.

Porzingis has told Dallas he IS signing the QO.

I saw contradicting reports on this. Some say he is going to evaluate the franchise first. He is a big fan of Dirk and is friends with Luka. Luka+KP should be fun

[T-ski]

Weak 2nd quarter killed the Raps. Especially 3-point shooting. Great D by the Bucks ... completely blanketed the starting lineup.

Can't wait to have JV back.

both Giannis and Kwahi had off nights.  Bucks defense was the difference for sure. 

I'm not sure how to handle this success, Bucks haven't been relevant since 2000-2001.

[jingle.boy]

Weak 2nd quarter killed the Raps. Especially 3-point shooting. Great D by the Bucks ... completely blanketed the starting lineup.

Can't wait to have JV back.

both Giannis and Kwahi had off nights.  Bucks defense was the difference for sure. 

I'm not sure how to handle this success, Bucks haven't been relevant since 2000-2001.

Four fouls for GA just 4 minutes into the 3rd Quarter will do that to ya.  All of the starters (save Siakim) looked 'off' for the Raps.  It was their 2nd unit that brought them back to respectability in the 3rd.

Last home loss by the Raps??  Against the Bucks in December.  Hopefully they don't become our new Kryptonite.

[Nekov]

The Sixers traded for Tobias Harris. If they can integrate him with the team in this second half of the season they will be scary good. I think they might be able to challenge the Bucks to get to the finals (Sorry J-boy but we all know the raptors will go all Rex from toy story come playoff time)

[jingle.boy]

The Sixers traded for Tobias Harris. If they can integrate him with the team in this second half of the season they will be scary good. I think they might be able to challenge the Bucks to get to the finals (Sorry J-boy but we all know the raptors will go all Rex from toy story come playoff time)

Perhaps I'm getting a little homer-ish, but I think they've made enough adjustments in personnel and coaching tactics that the culture is different.  This isn't the same team despite the jersey's they wear - plus, no Lebron to give them the yips.  The big question mark at this point is how Lowry's back will hold up.  Leonard will be fine - the team has been managing his workload for him to be playoff ready.  JV coming back tomorrow, so he got a nice 2-month rest. Siakim has made huge strides this year.

One of us will be eating crow come June.  Let's just remember what page this comment is on, and revisit it in 4 months. 

Philly looked god awful last night, except for a couple of brief spurts to start the 3rd and 4th.  No rebounding, terrible turnovers, and mailing in the defence for the 1st half.

[Nekov]

I just read that the raptors are looking to possibly trading Lowry for Connely. That would be interesting

[jingle.boy]

I just read that the raptors are looking to possibly trading Lowry for Connely. That would be interesting

Whatever article you read has it back asswards.  The *Raptors* are not looking to move Lowry or obtain Connely - the prevailing thought is that the rumours (which also included JV and Gasol last night) are from calls floated out by Memphis management to generate some buzz to make SOME kind of deal happen.

Guess we'll know in about 30 hours.

[TAC]

I expect the Raptors to break through with or without Lowry.

[Nekov]

I just read that the raptors are looking to possibly trading Lowry for Connely. That would be interesting

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/02/05/nba-trade-rumors-mike-conley-kyle-lowry-marc-gasol-grizzlies-raptors?utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=thecrossover

[Samsara]

I think the Sixers made a fantastic move. Both for this season, and the future.

For this season, with that big four of Embid, Simmons, Butler, Harris, they have a ton of scoring, solid defense, and you can always have one or two of those guys who will still be on the floor when the reserves come in, to take on a bigger scoring load. Bench-wise, while McConnel isn't a 3 pt threat, Mike Scott certainly is, and combined with JJ Reddick, they can bomb away from deep, despite two main rotation guys not being distance shooters.

The East just got a new favorite, and its the Philadelphia 76ers.

As for next year, this works too. If Butler opts to stay, you pay him his max, and then you pay Harris his max. You're way over the cap, but have your top four players locked in (Simmons will resign when its time, he's not going to decline his rookie extension). If Butler decides to LEAVE, that's OK, because you're still covered with Harris, who has shown himself to be an outstanding scorer and good defender. Elton Brand should be commended for what he's done. Damn good move.

[jingle.boy]

https://www.si.com/nba/2019/02/05/nba-trade-rumors-mike-conley-kyle-lowry-marc-gasol-grizzlies-raptors?utm_medium=social&xid=socialflow_twitter_si&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=thecrossover

Interesting.  The analysts on TSN last night said the exact opposite - that it was Memphis making the calls, not Ujiri.

[T-ski]

Everyone in the top of the East making moves!

[Nekov]

This is way more fun than watching all those blowout games we get lately.

[Samsara]

Philly has to be the favorite coming out of the east...as long as that chemistry is there. They just added that bench depth they needed too in a couple of other trades (Fultz is now with Orlando). Great moves by Elton Brand and company.

Side note - really pleased to see that Caris Levert of the Nets (SG, averages 18+ PPG) is returning Friday for them. He was injured against my TWolves about two months ago. Glad he was able to come back and avoid surgery. Gruesome fall he took.

as for my Wolves...did what I expected...nothing. Smart, because honestly, if they ever got healthy, they'd be deep and pretty good. Hopefully Teague, Rose, Covington and Jones come back soon. Sorta difficult to play when you are missing four of your top nine players, including two starters.

Like the Raptors trade. Gasol is an upgrade. Not a huge one, but very nice. Looks like the East is four deep now, with the Raptors, Bucks, Sixers, and Celtics. I don't see anyone else in the East having a legit shot, except, improbably, the Nets, which wouldn't surprise me if they had a first round upset if they matched up right with the right team.

[jingle.boy]

Gasol's defence better be top shelf, because his offensive minutes are a lot more than JV (as well as his price tag - $9M more than JV), but his stats / game aren't terribly higher.  Wright/Miles gave some decent and dependable rest minutes for the likes of Lowry, Green and Van Fleet, so it'll be interesting to see how they fill those spots out.

[jingle.boy]

Apparently the Raps are offloading Greg Monroe for a 2nd rounder from the Nets.  No need for him if it's gonna be Gasol/Ibaka down the middle.  Hopefully they both stay healthy.  Monroe did some good work to backup Ibaka while JV was out.

[Lonk]

What a shot

[KevShmev]

Great shot.  If the Lakers are lucky, they can go on a run, grab the 8 seed, and get their asses kicked in the 1st round by the Warriors.

[jingle.boy]

With only 9 men dressed, it would've been easy for the Raps to fold up shop (and they basically did in the 1st H giving up 68 to the Hawks) and mail it in. But, helluva 2nd half to take it going away.  Career highs from both Siakim and VanFleet, while holding the Hawks to 33 in 2H (same as what they got in the first QUARTER).

Again, I know... it's just the Hawks.