Author Topic: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs  (Read 19060 times)

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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #490 on: January 06, 2019, 05:46:10 PM »
Minnesota fires Thibs.

Samsara, thoughts?

You won't hear from Samsara anytime soon. Sources tell me he is in Minneapolis interviewing for the position.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #491 on: January 06, 2019, 06:01:39 PM »
Typically winning (beating the Lakers) saves jobs, guess Glen Taylor just wanted to throw Thibs a big F-U regardless.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #492 on: January 06, 2019, 08:30:05 PM »
Holy hell that was a pretty impressive back-to-back pair of victories by the Dinos - the bench couldn't sink a golf ball in the net last night, and the starters had to carry the team ... ending the Bucks' 5-game win streak.  Three players over 20 points.  Tonight... with Kawhi benched (as he has been all season on night 2 of b2b games), total team effort with 8 players in double digits - ending the Pacers 6-game win-streak.
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Online axeman90210

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #493 on: January 06, 2019, 08:39:20 PM »
Even though I still maintain that basketball is my least favorite of the major sports, have to say I had fun going to the Brooklyn Nets game a few nights ago. Seems like they're finally coming out of the darkness from the team imploding after that ill fated trade with Boston. Curious to see if they'll be able to attract any major free agents this coming off-season.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #494 on: January 06, 2019, 08:52:21 PM »
Holy hell that was a pretty impressive back-to-back pair of victories by the Dinos - the bench couldn't sink a golf ball in the net last night, and the starters had to carry the team ... ending the Bucks' 5-game win streak.  Three players over 20 points.  Tonight... with Kawhi benched (as he has been all season on night 2 of b2b games), total team effort with 8 players in double digits - ending the Pacers 6-game win-streak.

I take solace in the fact the Bucks still have won two of three against the Raps and in the game on Saturday, Giannis was the only guy who showed up and it was still close.

Playoffs are going to be fun.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 09:26:09 PM by T-ski »
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #495 on: January 07, 2019, 05:07:58 AM »
Holy hell that was a pretty impressive back-to-back pair of victories by the Dinos - the bench couldn't sink a golf ball in the net last night, and the starters had to carry the team ... ending the Bucks' 5-game win streak.  Three players over 20 points.  Tonight... with Kawhi benched (as he has been all season on night 2 of b2b games), total team effort with 8 players in double digits - ending the Pacers 6-game win-streak.

I take solace in the fact the Bucks still have won two of three against the Raps and in the game on Saturday, Giannis was the only guy who showed up and it was still close.

Playoffs are going to be fun.

And I take solace in the fact 2 starters (Lowry and JV) weren't in the game.  ;)  The top of the East is looking damn tough this year.  And if the 76rs and Celtics can get their act together, it'll be downright scary.  I can see the top 5 all finishing within 3 or 4 games of one another. 
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #496 on: January 07, 2019, 08:45:57 AM »
Called Thibs firing in November, with the Butler fiasco...even called Ryan Saunders being elevated to interim. But man, what weird timing. Yeah, the Wolves ridiculously lost to Phoenix and the Hawks, but they were 15-12 post-Butler. A respectable record in the West. A Saunders-coached team is going to have losses they shouldn't have too, so I think owner Glen Taylor just didn't want to come out and say what we all knew -- this was planned for a long, long time.

In truth, I think this will be good for the Wolves. Saunders is the son of Flip Saunders, the late, beloved coach/president of the Wolves before passing from cancer. The players who played under him still on the team (Towns, Wiggins, and Tyus Jones, I believe), loved the man. Thibs' personality is the polar opposite of Saunders. I think in today's NBA, that "tough love" approach by Thibs just doesn't work. Ultimately, players will fight hard for Saunders, who, despite his young age (32) is a hoops junkie and a brilliant basketball mind, according to those that know him.

What I hope will improve are the rotations. Wiggins playing 16 straight minutes to start the game and the second half is a lot. I see Saunders being a lot quicker to sub, and keep guys fresher throughout each game, while still playing starter-quality minutes (36-ish).

I also think we'll see less reliance on half-court sets, and a more wide open offense that takes advantage of Towns' playmaking ability, along with an emphasis of getting shots up earlier. They just play too slow.

So, good move, suspect timing, and I hope it helps get the Wolves into the playoffs. But with a rookie head coach, you just don't know. 15-12 post-Butler is a good record, and I'm not sure the Wolves are going to have any better of a record, percentage-wise, with Saunders at the helm. I hope so, but its a toss up.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #497 on: January 07, 2019, 09:15:00 AM »
What I really hope is that D-Rose can still thrive under Saunders since he has been one of the best stories if not the best this season.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #498 on: January 07, 2019, 10:24:46 AM »
What I really hope is that D-Rose can still thrive under Saunders since he has been one of the best stories if not the best this season.

I think he'll be fine. THey all love him on the coaching staff. What you'll see is D.Rose getitng more like 20-24 minutes a night, instead of the 35 he was playing under Thibs.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #499 on: January 09, 2019, 03:36:28 PM »
The Nerlens Noel fall last night was scary. Wigs went up for a massive dunk and caught Noel's head with his left forearm, sent him crashing to the floor where he slammed his head. HOpe the guy is OK. It was brutal.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #500 on: January 17, 2019, 09:59:39 AM »
This streak Harden has been on is incredible. I took a quick look at PPG career season leaders, and if the season ended today, Hardern's PPG average this season puts only behind a few seasons from Wilt and Jordan. CRAZY.

I'm no fan of the way Harden draws fouls, but the fact this guy has NO HELP, and he's just carrying the team...incredible.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #501 on: January 17, 2019, 10:02:23 AM »
He also regularly gets away with traveling because the refs are too busy looking at his upper body for the defensive foul and not looking at his feet.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #502 on: January 17, 2019, 10:03:46 AM »
He also regularly gets away with traveling because the refs are too busy looking at his upper body for the defensive foul and not looking at his feet.

He does, but everyone in the NBA does these days. Its ridiculous. I'm not a Harden fan, but its hard to deny how well he is playing.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #503 on: January 18, 2019, 09:02:41 AM »
Going back to the point raised a little while back about Draymond Green being overrated and a "liability" to the Warriors, I found a nice piece that emphasizes some of what is unique about him and why he is such an invaluable part of what makes the Warriors great.  Is he overrated?  Maybe.  But does he still add a TON of value to what makes this team great?  Yeah.  Here's how Zach Lowe put it:

Quote
I recognize this Draymond Green
When Green is on, he simmers with the impatience of someone whose mind is ahead of visual reality. He snarls and gestures at everyone who can't see what he sees -- everyone who isn't where Green already knows they should be.

The moment an opponent shot goes up, he downloads the geometry of the floor and understands immediately where the Warriors have an advantage -- if only everyone would hurry the hell up.

Green was in such a frenzy to grab one rebound against New Orleans on Wednesday that he jumped too early -- when the ball was bouncing toward the top of the backboard. He landed and jumped again when it was still at rim level. In his rush, Green almost fumbled the ball before gathering it, bounding up the floor, and directing Kevon Looney with an unsubtle tilt of the head to cut backdoor for a dunk.

This Green is Golden State's engine -- a Defensive Player of the Year candidate who propels them into a rare state of basketball ecstasy. We have seen more of that Green over the last two-plus weeks, and especially in dishing 27 combined assists in the Warriors' last two wins.

This Green knows what to do when defenses don't guard him. The tactic isn't new, and the solution usually isn't to jack more 3s -- not on this roster. When Green catches the ball wide-open on the perimeter, he flicks it to Stephen Curry, Klay Thompson or Kevin Durant, and in one motion sprints toward them for an impromptu screen. If no one is on Green, that means no defender will meet his star teammate on the other side of that pick. And that is death.

Green is rampaging into those dish-and-picks with such ferocity, he damn near arrives before his own pass.

He's not all the way back. He is still forfeiting chances to attack driving lanes when defenses ignore him. His defense at the point of attack hasn't been airtight.

But the soul of a dynasty is roaring again.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/25787638/10-things-like-including-draymond-green-kawhi-leonard-lonzo-ball-nba
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #504 on: January 18, 2019, 09:12:12 AM »
Draymond Green would be a rotation player in most NBA lineups. That's about it. Gifted passer, good defender. Below average offensively. He could not carry the load as a 1 or 2 option offensively. He's simply a good role player. Valuable to the Warriors? Sure. A defensive asset to most teams? Absolutely. A player worth anything close to a max deal? Not in the slightest.

He's a good fourth offensive option and defensive role player...on a team with three Hall of Famers.

If that team is him and Steph Curry as the two top players (meaning if Durant and Thompson leave, and GS doesn't import other assets)...GS wouldn't sniff the playoffs.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #505 on: January 18, 2019, 09:39:37 AM »
Eh, I think they'd still make the playoffs, since Curry is so good, but I agree with just about everything else you said there. 

Zach Lowe is out of his mind calling Green the soul of the dynasty.  Steph Curry is the heart and soul of that dynasty, plain and simple.

Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #506 on: January 18, 2019, 10:01:41 AM »
Look, I get that you don't like the guy.  But a bunch of what you wrote is just flat-out wrong.

Draymond Green would be a rotation player in most NBA lineups. That's about it.

Well, whenever we get into what he "would" be, it's hard to say since we're obviously talking hypotheticals that have never happened.  But as for what I think you are trying to get at, I don't think so.  And here's why:  The Warriors offense and defense are often run by and through Green when he is on the floor.  He runs, coordinates, and drives what happens on the floor.  That is something that doesn't show up in the stats and may not be apparent to the casual observer.  But the Warriors run pretty sophisticated and very kinetic offensive and defensive schemes, and there just aren't tons of players out there that can run something like that, and even fewer who can run it as well as Green has.  That isn't what a "rotation player" does.

Gifted passer, good defender. Below average offensively. He could not carry the load as a 1 or 2 option offensively.

As to the first two points, yes, but those both miss the point of the main thing he does.  He doesn't just pass.  Again, he often runs the offense.  His gift as an exceptional passer is one of the things that allows him to do that.  But it's just one piece of the puzzle.  Similar on defense.  The common "below average offensively" also misses the mark.  In terms of scoring, yes.  But (1) his scoring (and other offensive stats) are down this season.  A lot of that is attributable to missing a lot of time due to the two injuries and playing hurt when he has been playing.  Obviously, if his stats stay down, that's a different story.  But his offensive stats this season aren't reflective of his value.  And (2) being a primary scorer isn't his role.  And it shouldn't be on a team with Curry, Klay, and KD.  And while you are right that he wouldn't be a 1 or a 2 offensively on most teams (in terms of scoring), again, that isn't his role and it isn't where he brings value.  He absolutely would have higher point totals on another team where you don't have 3 of the best scorers in the league on the same team.  But regardless, putting up points himself is not where he brings value. 

He's simply a good role player.

Role player?  Yes.  "Good" role player?  I think "exceptional" role player is a better description and more accurately backed up by what he does.

He's a good fourth offensive option and defensive role player...on a team with three Hall of Famers.

Offensively, yeah, he's the "fourth option" in terms of scoring.  Again, that misses the point.

Defensively, I'm not sure what "fourth option" means.  At any given time, he is easily the #1 or #2 best defender the Warriors have on the floor.  And his injuries and missed time this season go a long way in explaining why there has been such a noticeable dropoff in their defense this season from what they have done the past 5 seasons with him at or nearer to full strength.

Really, your comment that he is the "fourth option . . . on a team with three Hall of Famers" makes the point for me--of course he's going to be looked at as the #4 player overall when you have Curry, Klay, and KD on a team.  Nobody other than a handful of players in the entire NBA would be ranked any higher than that.  And quite a few of those guys don't play Green's position anyway.

Honestly, I think your assessment of Green is entirely clouded by your bias against him and your lack of knowledge of what he actually does for the team.  And as to the latter, that isn't a dig at all.  He's just one of those guys whose primary value may not be as obvious to someone who does not actively follow the team and understand how they function and why.

Zach Lowe is out of his mind calling Green the soul of the dynasty.  Steph Curry is the heart and soul of that dynasty, plain and simple.

No, I think they both are.  But just in much different ways.  And it's hard to quantify with much precision which is more "valuable."  Take away either player and replace him with an average player in that position, and do they have the success they have had over the past 5 season?  Probably not.  Take away Curry, and do they win 3 of the last 4 titles?  Nope.  But interestingly enough, during the first two of those four years, his playoff stats were way below what he usually offers up, due to injuries and other factors.  By the same token, take away Green, and do they win 3 of the last 4?  I think you still have the same answer.  But as far as how to quantify that, it's highly debatable and entirely speculative.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 10:12:45 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #507 on: January 18, 2019, 10:18:36 AM »
Honestly, I think your assessment of Green is entirely clouded by your bias against him and your lack of knowledge of what he actually does for the team.  And as to the latter, that isn't a dig at all.  He's just one of those guys whose primary value may not be as obvious to someone who does not actively follow the team and understand how they function and why.

Guys, I dislike Green as much as the next guy, but Bosk is right this time. The guy is a great defender, one of the best in the league given how he can switch on almost anyone. He is also a great passer and can sometimes play as the point guard of the team. He plays hard, goes for rebounds, is not afraid of contact and can get under people's skin. He can shoot the 3, not a top shooter, but he is still a menace from out there and helps spread the defense. He's not a superstar, not even an all star, but he's a guy that would be a starter in almost every team in the league because he has a combination of skills that very few other players in this league have.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #508 on: January 18, 2019, 10:27:16 AM »
Two thoughts:

1) Even as someone who does not enjoy Harden's playing style, I have to give credit where credit is due. The guys is having one of the most unbelievable seasons I have ever seen. I will be anxiously tuning into more Rockets games going forward.

2) I don't know about this year, because I've heard that Green is struggling, but he has been incredibly important to the Warriors success. There are a lot of ways to demonstrate it, but one of the clearest ways is through analytics. As an example, he was 8th, 2nd, 4th, and 18th overall in Real Plus-Minus from 2015 to 2018. The guy is a phenomenal passer, was a reliable shooter for a time, and is a transformational defensive player. He is a classic "ceiling raiser" - He probably can't lift a crap team to respectability by himself, but stick him on a team with good players, and he will take you from good to great.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #509 on: January 18, 2019, 10:30:57 AM »
Look, I get that you don't like the guy.  But a bunch of what you wrote is just flat-out wrong.


No, it's not. And yes, I do not like the guy. But unlike you, who is a hardcore Warriors fan and rooting in a homer-ish way for your team (not meant in a mean way, we all do it with our teams), I am looking at him objectively.

Quote

The Warriors offense and defense are often run by and through Green when he is on the floor.  He runs, coordinates, and drives what happens on the floor.  That is something that doesn't show up in the stats and may not be apparent to the casual observer.  But the Warriors run pretty sophisticated and very kinetic offensive and defensive schemes, and there just aren't tons of players out there that can run something like that, and even fewer who can run it as well as Green has.  That isn't what a "rotation player" does.

I said he'd be a rotation player on any other NBA team. YES, for the WARRIORS, that is his role. He essentially acts as a point-forward. Luka Doncic does it for the Mavericks. Lebron does it for the Lakers. But unlike those two guys (who are two of many) who have great two-way ability, Green is very limited offensively, and would be exposed if he was a No. 2 option on a team. Therefore, while an elite defender, and good passer, he wouldn't be a "star" for anyone else. He's a "star" because he's surrounded by three HOF players that help hide Green's shortcomings as a player.

Quote
  He doesn't just pass.  Again, he often runs the offense.  His gift as an exceptional passer is one of the things that allows him to do that.  But it's just one piece of the puzzle.  Similar on defense.  The common "below average offensively" also misses the mark.  In terms of scoring, yes.  But (1) his scoring (and other offensive stats) are down this season.  A lot of that is attributable to missing a lot of time due to the two injuries and playing hurt when he has been playing.  Obviously, if his stats stay down, that's a different story.  But his offensive stats this season aren't reflective of his value.  And (2) being a primary scorer isn't his role.  And it shouldn't be on a team with Curry, Klay, and KD.  And while you are right that he wouldn't be a 1 or a 2 offensively on most teams (in terms of scoring), again, that isn't his role and it isn't where he brings value.  He absolutely would have higher point totals on another team where you don't have 3 of the best scorers in the league on the same team.  But regardless, putting up points himself is not where he brings value. 

Bosk -- he can't shoot. Never could. He gets a ton of open looks, and for the last three years, his shooting has been terrible. Imagine what would happen if he didn't get those open looks (which would happen if he played on most other teams)? CLANG. CLANG.

And again I say - yes, he's a point forward and runs the offense. A LOT of guys do it, and do it as well, or better. Giannis does it in Milwaukee too. So this point you are hammering home like Green is this unique player is a load of bologna. He does what he does for THE WARRIORS very well. But he's nothing special except for defensively.

Quote

Role player?  Yes.  "Good" role player?  I think "exceptional" role player is a better description and more accurately backed up by what he does.

See above. Yes, a good role player. A guy along the lines of...hmm. In past eras, I'd call him Anthony Mason. A defensive PF who runs the floor and directs the offense, but can be a liability offensively. That's what Green is. He just does it on an iconic team, so Green is held in high regard by fans of that team. Anyone looking at him objectively, again, sees a great defensive player with good passing skills, that would be exposed offensively on just about any other team in the league.

Quote
Offensively, yeah, he's the "fourth option" in terms of scoring.  Again, that misses the point.

No, it doesn't. I see that point. He's the fourth best player (I'd say FIFTH now, with Cousins) on a team.

Quote
Defensively, I'm not sure what "fourth option" means.  At any given time, he is easily the #1 or #2 best defender the Warriors have on the floor.  And his injuries and missed time this season go a long way in explaining why there has been such a noticeable dropoff in their defense this season from what they have done the past 5 seasons with him at or nearer to full strength.

Excuses. He's fat and out of shape, and now finally getting himself right. He's not the fourth option on defense. He's clearly the team's best defender. I would never deny Green's importance, defensively. But he's a liability on offense. Period.


Quote
Honestly, I think your assessment of Green is entirely clouded by your bias against him and your lack of knowledge of what he actually does for the team.  And as to the latter, that isn't a dig at all.  He's just one of those guys whose primary value may not be as obvious to someone who does not actively follow the team and understand how they function and why.

Bosk - MY assessment of Green is clouded? You're the fan, the homer for him. I have likely seen more Warriors games than you this year, because I'm a hoops junkie who watches games every night. I've seen probably 25-30 Warriors games, in-full, this season. I know what Green does and the role he plays. I've also played and coached at the college level. I'm just not blinded like a Warriors fan. Green is a great defender. NO DOUBT. But he's not a max player (like he thinks he is), and he would be woefully incapable of leading a team that didn't have the shooting talent GS does. Without that, Green is a rotational piece that is an elite defender and good passer that can play point-forward. Take the ball out of his hands, and he's a liability, completely, on the offense.

You are losing this oral argument counselor.  :lol

p.s. Nekov, I've said countless times Green is a beast of a defender and good passer. But put him on a team like...Memphis. Or even a team like Detroit. A team without three great shooters. Watch what happens when they close out on Green on the offensive end. Particularly if Green is not running point. Green can't shoot, and his lack of offensive moves is extremely glaring. A great, great defender, whose shortcomings would be exposed outside of Golden State.

And I want to be clear - AT NO TIME DID I SAY THAT GREEN IS A BAD PLAYER. I said he's an ELITE DEFENDER and GOOD PASSER that orchestrates the offense. But as TheOutlawXanadu just said:

Quote
He probably can't lift a crap team to respectability by himself, but stick him on a team with good players, and he will take you from good to great.He probably can't lift a crap team to respectability by himself, but stick him on a team with good players, and he will take you from good to great.

Exactly this. But I'd swap out "good players" with "good SHOOTERS." He needs people around him that can shoot, otherwise his inability on the offensive end will hurt you. That's all masked in Golden STate because of the level of shooters he plays with (now getting even better with Boogie).
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #510 on: January 18, 2019, 10:36:22 AM »
Sam - Please, please correct me if I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are saying that players who lift crap teams - "floor raisers" - are as important or maybe even more important than ceiling raisers. That may be my main point of disagreement with you. I would much rather have someone like Green than, say, Demar Derozan, even though Demar is basically guaranteed to get you around .500 whereas Green is not.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #511 on: January 18, 2019, 10:37:50 AM »
p.s. bosk - I'm pretty passionate about my hoops, so if I came off as aggressive, that's all it is. Nothing personal, you know that. We're all homer fans for our teams to some degree (ask me if I think the Wolves can beat most teams, I'll say they can, and argue it, and most folks would laugh. Ha ha.). But I just love the heated hoops debates. Nothing personal ever intended bud.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #512 on: January 18, 2019, 10:42:39 AM »
Sam - Please, please correct me if I am wrong here, but it sounds like you are saying that players who lift crap teams - "floor raisers" - are as important or maybe even more important than ceiling raisers. That may be my main point of disagreement with you. I would much rather have someone like Green than, say, Demar Derozan, even though Demar is basically guaranteed to get you around .500 whereas Green is not.

TOX - I'm not sure what you mean. I was talking specifically about Green, and admitting his talents, but making the argument that he'd be much more pedestrian on a lower level team because of his liabilities. I mean, sure, you put Green on...lets say the Celtics, and give him the ball, he'll raise their play. But put him on the Knicks, he's going to struggle.

And my overall point with Green is that while he IS valuable, he's not AS valuable, in terms of contract size. He wants a max deal. He's not worth that. AT ALL. Say he walks, and say some team with space (for shits and giggles, say the Knicks) gives it to him. Even with Knox and Porzingis, he's not going to be worth anywhere near that max deal, because the Knicks lack shooters that would mask his offensive liabilities.

As a PLAYER, I like Green's defense, hustle, and passing. I just don't think, on a lower team, its value makes up for the extreme liability he is as a shooter and offensive player. Am I being clearer?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #513 on: January 18, 2019, 10:45:03 AM »
But unlike you, who is a hardcore Warriors fan...

Well, see, again, you aren't paying attention.  As I've made quite clear, I'm NOT a "hardcore Warriors fan" at all.  I have no problem admitting I am a bandwagon fan when it comes to the NBA, and I root for players I like.  Before this current era of the Warriors (starting with Jackson), I have NEVER been a Warriors fan.  But this team is a whole lot of fun to watch, and yes, I have been rooting for them. 

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm not biased.  I am, because it is a team I root for.  But not nearly as biased as you seem to think.

...I am looking at him objectively.

Well, no, you aren't though.  And that's the point.  And, as you said, I'm not saying that in a mean way.  But you are ignoring the actual facts and basing your argument on speculation about what might happen if he were somewhere else.  Conveniently, at this present time, we'll never know because he isn't somewhere else.  So we can speculate about what "might" happen somewhere else.  But in terms of what his role and value currently are to the Warriors, again, you are ignoring the actual facts, which are supported by those analysts who actually follow the team and understand what Green does.  TOX and Nekov get it.  As do countless others.  So, yeah, removing speculation about what "might" happen in some alternative universe where he isn't on the Warriors, I'm quite comfortable that Lowe's assessment is correct.

p.s. bosk - I'm pretty passionate about my hoops, so if I came off as aggressive, that's all it is. Nothing personal, you know that. We're all homer fans for our teams to some degree (ask me if I think the Wolves can beat most teams, I'll say they can, and argue it, and most folks would laugh. Ha ha.). But I just love the heated hoops debates. Nothing personal ever intended bud.

No worries there.  Yeah, I think you are dead wrong.  And I think you are being aggressive.  And it pisses me off.  But it's a sports thread, so I don't take it personally, and I welcome it.  :lol  I hope that feeling is reciprocal.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #514 on: January 18, 2019, 10:48:21 AM »
 :rollin :rollin

Hahhaha. Love you too bud.  :metal

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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #515 on: January 18, 2019, 11:00:01 AM »
But if we really wanted to go at it, I'd only have one thing to say:  Come at me, bro.  :bringiton:
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #516 on: January 18, 2019, 12:07:16 PM »
So what do people think of the whole Kyrie calling Lebron thing? Angle to get back with him and to the Lakers? Kyrie is funny to me. The guy seems like a legit dude who cares, but he does some weird stuff. I mean, why would you tell anyone you called Lebron. It was supposed to be about getting advice to help you be a better team leader. After that win (after the call), all he should have done was say "I took a look at myself, and tried to do my best to help everyone on the team be successful. It worked tonight, and we'll keep plugging away the rest of the season."

Instead, he felt compelled to tell everyone who he talked to (knowing it would blow up), and getting all this attention, instead of just directing the attention to how well the team played. Dude is just an enigma.

My best guess is, he'll end up a free agent, and perhaps he will sign with the Suns. they need a PG, and with Booker and Ayton, he has pieces. Bring along Butler, and boom, instant playoff team. If Butler doesn't run them all off too, like he did in Minny, and is doing in Philly.  :lol
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #517 on: January 18, 2019, 12:22:24 PM »
I think the NBA needs drama and journalism and fans just look for things to talk about instead of the actual game. The guy realized he wasn't being a good leader and that taking a team on his shoulders, the thing he left Cleveland for, wasn't as easy as he thought it would be. So he decided to call the one guy he knew could help him achieve his goal, and in the process he apologized because of the disrespectful way he left the Cavs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Why did he tell that to the media? Because that's what players do nowadays. Their are TV and social media stars, being a basketball player is not enough for them anymore. They are questioned by everything they do and say so they feel the need to over-explain everything and try to please everyone. It's what it is.
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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #518 on: January 18, 2019, 04:25:26 PM »
So what do people think of the whole Kyrie calling Lebron thing? Angle to get back with him and to the Lakers? Kyrie is funny to me. The guy seems like a legit dude who cares, but he does some weird stuff. I mean, why would you tell anyone you called Lebron. It was supposed to be about getting advice to help you be a better team leader.

I think Kyrie is a decent dude, but he talks to much about the stuff he feels. When he said he called "Bron" to apologize for being a PITA, he basically publicly called Brown, Rozier, etc PITAs.  :lol  I honestly don't think that was what he was trying to do. I think he wanted to tell people that he's a grown up now. :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Vmadera00

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #519 on: January 19, 2019, 04:13:23 PM »
OKC-PHI...good ending! Philly always seems to have bad defense at the end of games. Even after so many years of Westbrook being Westbrook, I still don’t like his style.

Offline Vmadera00

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #520 on: January 21, 2019, 06:17:37 PM »
Carmelo traded to the Bulls. Probably will be waived by the bulls (I’m guessing). Crazy how quickly this guy’s career collapsed.

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #521 on: January 21, 2019, 07:36:06 PM »
Carmelo traded to the Bulls. Probably will be waived by the bulls (I’m guessing). Crazy how quickly this guy’s career collapsed.

The Bulls saved about $900,000... are they that much over the cap? Or were they in luxury tax territory?  :justjen
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #522 on: January 22, 2019, 07:43:57 AM »
Carmelo traded to the Bulls. Probably will be waived by the bulls (I’m guessing). Crazy how quickly this guy’s career collapsed.

The Bulls saved about $900,000... are they that much over the cap? Or were they in luxury tax territory?  :justjen

No idea. Been wondering why they would even agree to do it. NBA Radio reported the trade was for "cash considerations." So why in the hell do it? Did the Paxon owe Daryl Morey a favor? Strange. They (NBA Radio's Frank Isola) reported that Melo will be released and be a free agent after Feb. 7 or 8 (I forget which).
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #523 on: January 22, 2019, 08:02:36 AM »
Actually, according to what I've been reading it's Melo + cash cosiderations for draft rights to some international player. Chicago gets money and Houston gets the roster spot they needed to sign Faried.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Cavs 2-game winning streak!
« Reply #524 on: January 22, 2019, 08:05:43 AM »
Rockets actually had to waive a different player to acquire Faried because the league offices weren't open to finalize the trade due to MLK Day.
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