NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs

[T-ski]

Parker is one of the worst defensive players in the league.

[Samsara]

Parker is one of the worst defensive players in the league.

You would certainly know. 

BIG win by the Wolves last night against the Rockets. After the refs seriously tried to help them win in the first half (I am NOT a homer at all, and it was clear as day the Wolves were getting the shaft by the refs), it was a hell of a halftime adjustment on both ends of the floor, and a great comeback from 19 down. Towns looked aggressive in the paint, and that's what he HAS to do. Wiggins disappeared again in the fourth, offensively, but I've never seen Wiggins play that intensely on the defensive end. Dude had three (3!!!!) blocks. I don't recall him ever having three blocks in a game before.  And I was pleased that on a night that Derrick Rose didn't play well (he was scoreless), the Wolves were still able to generate really good offense.

Stuff looking up for the Pups. As long as they don't look past the Hornets on Wednesday, I'm excited to see what the rest of the season brings. The west is going to be wild. The Nuggets are getting IT back soon (IT has been saying that the last week or so on Twitter), I mean, its going to be a fight to game 82 to get into the playoffs.

[T-ski]

Bucks have been alternating W/L's the last few weeks after their hot start, but a nice win Sunday night in Toronto.  East should be fun this year.

[Nekov]

I know it's still too early in the season, but I can't remember the west being this close, ever. Six games separate Nr. 1 and Nr. 14, that is insane. The east on the other hand still shows an enormous gap between the top 4 or 5 teams and the rest. The fact that Orlando has a chance at the playoffs speaks volumes on how weak that conference has become.

[Samsara]

I know it's still too early in the season, but I can't remember the west being this close, ever. Six games separate Nr. 1 and Nr. 14, that is insane. The east on the other hand still shows an enormous gap between the top 4 or 5 teams and the rest. The fact that Orlando has a chance at the playoffs speaks volumes on how weak that conference has become.

Agreed. I am really in favor of a re-seeding idea once the regular season ends. You are going to lose a few good teams in the west to pathetic crap from the east, and that's not right. For example, while I am not complaining, Denver lost to Minny in the regular season finale, and lost out on the playoffs, but they could have easily beaten the 7 and 8 seeds from the East.

Annoying loss by the Wolves to Portland Saturday night. Hard to win without your best defensive player (Covington was out), along with KAT getting into foul trouble three minutes into the game. Game was down to the wire though. A couple of late 3s by Dame pulled it out for the Blazers. Gotta respect that man's game. Things not looking better for the Wolves tonight, as they are in Oakland against Golden State.

[Samsara]

Pups went into Oakland last night. Not the bloodbath I somewhat expected. The Warriors led 13-0 at the start of the first, and the Wolves came roaring back, ultimately losing the game by 8. As I am sure most teams and their fans feel, it was so frustrating to get the game tied or within a few, and then watch the Warriors do their thing. There's a reason why they are champs.

Refs helped them out a lot, but that's to be expected. Even if they didn't, not sure it would have turned the tide. Fun game to watch from the middle of the 1st quarter until the end.

A couple of observations:

The Warriors' starting five are going to be unstoppable with Demarcus Cousins. As we all know, they look effortless in their greatness, and with him added to the mix, that starting lineup won't be touched.

The Warriors were without Andre Iguodala (and Cook, I think...I don't recall seeing him, so if he was there, he has a forgettable game) last night, but even with Iguodala coming off the pine, their bench is REALLY thin. I don't know the numbers, but the Wolves' bench more than doubled their scoring output (and its not like the Wolves' starters didn't play well -- they did).

The Wolves (namely coach Thibs) are going to run Derrick Rose into the ground. He's playing too much, and when on the floor, he ISOs like he's back in 2011-2012. I know he's healthy, but he's not THAT guy any more. It's hurting the T-Wolves, and Thibs needs to reign him in and go to a 10-man rotation, letting Josh Okogie get some run at the 2, alongside Tyus Jones on the second unit. It's just dumb to run Rose into the ground (he played 32 minutes against Portland, and I didn't check, but he was over 30 again against the Warriors).

Jeff Teague (Wolves starting PG) is passing really well, but if that dude (who can shoot well) keeps passing up open looks, he needs to be benched. Teague has a nice shot, he can score, and while I appreciate the pass-first mentality, we didn't bring him in here to be Ricky Rubio. We had that. Shoot when you're open.

Anyway, bottom line is the Warriors look like the Champs, and the Wolves look like a solid playoff team. But in the Wild West, who knows if they will make it.

p.s. Draymond Green is obnoxious, and a mouth breather. 

[bosk1]

The Warriors were without Andre Iguodala (and Cook, I think...I don't recall seeing him, so if he was there, he has a forgettable game) last night, but even with Iguodala coming off the pine, their bench is REALLY thin. I don't know the numbers, but the Wolves' bench more than doubled their scoring output (and its not like the Wolves' starters didn't play well -- they did).

That is definitely an issue.  Iguodala and Livingston seem to be deferring more to try to develop the younger talent.  They need to be more assertive and actually score.  And, actually, same with the younger talent.  The main problem I see with the bench is that none of them seem to be playing aggressively.  They need to just assert themselves.

[Samsara]

The Warriors were without Andre Iguodala (and Cook, I think...I don't recall seeing him, so if he was there, he has a forgettable game) last night, but even with Iguodala coming off the pine, their bench is REALLY thin. I don't know the numbers, but the Wolves' bench more than doubled their scoring output (and its not like the Wolves' starters didn't play well -- they did).

That is definitely an issue.  Iguodala and Livingston seem to be deferring more to try to develop the younger talent.  They need to be more assertive and actually score.  And, actually, same with the younger talent.  The main problem I see with the bench is that none of them seem to be playing aggressively.  They need to just assert themselves.

What could solve that is Cousins. If they elect to bring him off the bench instead of start him, that second unit immediately becomes a huge threat. An embarrassment of riches for sure, but if you're the Warriors, what the hell do you care, right? They are a great time. I jump back and forth between loving to watch them play, and being tired of them. Sorta like the Bulls of the 90s. The Ws are an all-time team, and while I hate losing to them, I really appreciate what they have. Particularly if both Durant and Thompson bail this year and end the run (which I think will sort of happen -- I think Durant is gone, but there's a better than average chance Thompson stays...it all depends on if he wants to go to the Lakers or not. That's the only team I see him leaving the Ws for).

[bosk1]

I would be legitimately shocked if Thompson left.  I know there is a narrative going around about that.  But it is just that: a sports narrative put out there by the journalists, in no small part because this is a contract year for him.  He doesn't want to go.  And the team ownership doesn't want him to go.  He is part of the core.  I think the only real issue is what they offer him.  If Durant leaves, I think he holds out for a max contract and gets it.  If Durant stays, I think that is the only scenario where Thompson agrees to take a cut so they can keep Durant. 

[Samsara]

In my mind, the only reason any of them should leave is if they are sick of Draymond's antics. Seriously. I mean, there's no incentive to leave. They will continue to win and keep that dynasty going. As long as everyone is paid, and like winning, why would they split up?

The only concern I see is bench play. But I have to imagine they could use the veteran's minimum to pick up quality guys for the rotation.

But Thompson-Curry-Durant are young enough to sign to max deals. I would seriously consider trading Draymond Green, as I think a fourth max is just not doable, and frankly, I think you can get someone who does a lot of what he does for cheaper, without the antics. Not saying AS good, but enough, for significantly cheaper.

[bosk1]

They will cut Durant loose before breaking up the Curry/Thompson/Green core.  And that is what they should do if it comes down to it.  Green is irreplaceable in that lineup.  Durant would be missed.  But they won a championship without him, and were one shot away from winning a second.  They can compensate without him if need be.  And I don't think anyone in that locker room has had any issue with Green other than Durant. 

Durant is a bit of an enigma.  I think you are right that that entire group should want to stay together and keep winning.  But he has always kept his plans close to the vest and is still kind of the "outsider/4th wheel."  Not that he hasn't been embraced.  But still, he's the only part of that core that isn't home grown and doesn't necessarily have an allegiance to what they built in-house.  He should want to stay.  But whether he ultimately does, we'll see.

[TAC]

East Coast update.....


Celtics are 7-3 in their last 10, and winners of 6 straight. Even though they have played the ass of the league, things started to fall in line when Hayward agreed to come off the bench. Trying to get too many guys into games was really a problem. Having a guy out on rest or maybe a little banged up, eases the congestion, and the Celtics, ironically, seem to benefit from it.

Last night, Irving, Hayward, Horford, and Baynes were out. They still easily handled the Pelicans. AD scored 41, but was basically tag teamed by Daniel Theis and rookie Robert Williams, who had 11 boards, and 2 big blocks on AD. This kid is really good.

Raptors on a tough 4 game West Coast swing. Hopefully the top of the East tightens up a bit.

[jingle.boy]

Yeah... and 3 games in 4 days to boot.  With Lowry in a slump.  He's been pretty awful the past couple of weeks.  Losing to the Nets was pretty deplorable.  Better to go thru some adversity and inconsistency now than in April I suppose.

I now know what it's like to have a team capable of winning every night... that becomes the emotional expectation.  No one expects a team to go 75-7, but when a team CAN/COULD win any/every given game, it's a weird feeling to lose a few at a time.

[Samsara]

I am sure it is JUST a slump, but Lowry has looked like all those playoff games have caught up to him. Looks OLD.

He's not, but he looks it, and that's concerning.

[KevShmev]

In my mind, the only reason any of them should leave is if they are sick of Draymond's antics. Seriously. I mean, there's no incentive to leave. They will continue to win and keep that dynasty going. As long as everyone is paid, and like winning, why would they split up?

The only concern I see is bench play. But I have to imagine they could use the veteran's minimum to pick up quality guys for the rotation.

But Thompson-Curry-Durant are young enough to sign to max deals. I would seriously consider trading Draymond Green, as I think a fourth max is just not doable, and frankly, I think you can get someone who does a lot of what he does for cheaper, without the antics. Not saying AS good, but enough, for significantly cheaper.

Agreed. 

There are a lot of guys who can do what Green does (grunt work, get boards, score here and there, annoy opponents with dirty play, etc.).

Good luck finding guys who can score like Durant and shoot like Curry and Thompson.

[jingle.boy]

After seeing what Durant is capable of vs the Raptors a couple weeks back ... yeah.  You don't let go of a top 5 (or top 3) guy in the league.  He was an absolute beast - 3 games in a row with 44+ points, and 40+ minutes.

[Samsara]

In my mind, the only reason any of them should leave is if they are sick of Draymond's antics. Seriously. I mean, there's no incentive to leave. They will continue to win and keep that dynasty going. As long as everyone is paid, and like winning, why would they split up?

The only concern I see is bench play. But I have to imagine they could use the veteran's minimum to pick up quality guys for the rotation.

But Thompson-Curry-Durant are young enough to sign to max deals. I would seriously consider trading Draymond Green, as I think a fourth max is just not doable, and frankly, I think you can get someone who does a lot of what he does for cheaper, without the antics. Not saying AS good, but enough, for significantly cheaper.

Agreed. 

There are a lot of guys who can do what Green does (grunt work, get boards, score here and there, annoy opponents with dirty play, etc.).

Good luck finding guys who can score like Durant and shoot like Curry and Thompson.

EXACTLY. Warriors fans tend to be really sensitive about the Draymond thing. The whole "homegrown," "homer" perspective. But the end of the day, everything Green does can be replaced by someone else who will command by far fewer dollars. And don't think mgmt doesn't know that. If Durant and Thompson re-up with the Warriors this summer on max deals (meaning they are carrying three max contracts), Green will be the odd man out. They may trade him, or may let him walk, but he won't be on the squad. And he won't be nearly as effective not being surrounded by two or three superstars.

With that new arena in San Fran, there's no way they want to be in a new arena, and have to deal with Draymond's BS day in and day out. The Ws fans can be protective and live in denial all they want, but if the Ws owners are told from their GM there's no way they can have all four on max deals, Green would be the first one they kick to the curb.

[bosk1]

All I can say is, we'll just have to wait and see.  But I have to say, I think you two are VASTLY underrating what Green does for this team and his skill set.  Yes, you can probably take most of the things he does well and find plenty of others than can do the same.  But as for his defense, he is elite at his position, and there are few that can match him.  For his passing and on-court vision, same thing.  But you take all his skills and roll them into one player, and I don't think you can find another player in the league that can do all of those things at his level.  He's not a Curry, or a Thompson, or a Durant.  But he brings something those guys don't, and he doesn't need to be them to help the team. 

And I'm not sure what you mean by "have to deal with Draymond's BS day in and day out."  Other than maybe the recent dust-up with Durant (which by all accounts seems to be squarely in the rear view mirror), I can't think of anyone, from the players, to the coaches, to the front office who has given any indication they are tired of having to "deal" with Green.  You either know something I don't, or it sounds like you are reaching for something that isn't there.

All that said, we'll see what happens.  Nobody really knows how ANY of these guys feel deep down, or what is said behind closed doors.  And the fact that we have an unprecedented number of "sports journalists" looking for stories to print only muddies the waters and gives extra rabbit holes to get lost in.  All I know is, this team is SO much fun to watch, Green included.

[Samsara]

All I can say is, we'll just have to wait and see.  But I have to say, I think you two are VASTLY underrating what Green does for this team and his skill set.  Yes, you can probably take most of the things he does well and find plenty of others than can do the same.  But as for his defense, he is elite at his position, and there are few that can match him.  For his passing and on-court vision, same thing.  But you take all his skills and roll them into one player, and I don't think you can find another player in the league that can do all of those things at his level.  He's not a Curry, or a Thompson, or a Durant.  But he brings something those guys don't, and he doesn't need to be them to help the team. 

See bolded part. Like many here, I'm an NBA junkie. Green is highly touted by Warriors fans as some sort of irreplaceable part. But the truth of the matter is -- he's not a superstar. Not by a long shot. I will grant you (as I think most of my fellow NBA junkies would) that Green's skills as an elite defender and an extremely good passer are valuable. But if forced to choose (and the Ws will be) between having the three mentioned above, or having two of those and Green, they'd punt Green to the curb quicker than Westbrook piles up triple-doubles. The league is an offensive league. Green's talents on the defensive end do not dictate a max deal, and Green will want a max deal. And the Ws SHOULD NOT try and give it to him (they won't be able to anyway if they sign Durant and Thompson).

Put Green on any other team, and he'll still be the fourth or fifth best offensive option. He's, frankly, a liability as a shooter, with a basic post game that is predictable. He gets bailed out because he is a really good passer, and he passes to three ELITE offensive players who get open. Take those guys away, Green is nothing but an elite defensive PF. And those guys don't deserve max deals. It'll be tough enough to fill out a roster behind Curry-Durant-Thompson if all three of those guys are max or close to max (I think both Durant and Thompson will have to give slight hometown discounts to make it work). There won't be money for Green, and as Green will find out, his antics are going to cost him. Speaking of that...

And I'm not sure what you mean by "have to deal with Draymond's BS day in and day out."  Other than maybe the recent dust-up with Durant (which by all accounts seems to be squarely in the rear view mirror), I can't think of anyone, from the players, to the coaches, to the front office who has given any indication they are tired of having to "deal" with Green.  You either know something I don't, or it sounds like you are reaching for something that isn't there.

A player's past follows him. I'm thinking of the times he's been suspended, the issues he has had with Kerr, the nudes he sent to a reporter (or someone else) that leaked, his penchant for annoying people, etc. All that stacks up against him. Sure, the players, coaches and front office try to deflect all that, and not talk about it, but they know its there, as does Green. Take him off that team, and the Warriors still win, and they don't have a wild card like Green to keep an eye on. With a new arena on the way next year, watch what happens. Say Durant comes back, and so does Thompson. Green will start trouble all next year about needing to get paid, detracting from the Warriors latest (I assume they will win the title this season) title and new arena celebration. Watch it happen. I guarantee it.

All that said, we'll see what happens.  Nobody really knows how ANY of these guys feel deep down, or what is said behind closed doors.  And the fact that we have an unprecedented number of "sports journalists" looking for stories to print only muddies the waters and gives extra rabbit holes to get lost in.  All I know is, this team is SO much fun to watch, Green included.

You're right, but at the end of the day, if you ask anyone outside of Warriors fans whether they would want Durant-Curry-Thompson, or Green-Curry-Thomposon, all of them will say the latter three, hands-down. Warriors fans have blinders on and this loyalty to Green that I understand, but is misplaced. I am a Wolves diehard, but I am also a Knicks diehard too, as I am from there. When Charles Oakley left, I was upset. But Anthony Mason stepped in, and did exactly what Oak did, with some other skills, for less money. It was understood that Mason would never be the main option. He was an orchestrator and defender - Green before Green, in another era. And he got paid like he was down the totem pole in comparison to the others. But the point is, Oakley and what he brought, was replaced for a cheaper model with more skills. Green is going to fight that, and demand equality. And the Ws would be stupid (if that indeed becomes the case and both Durant and Thompson stay) to try and do that (and I don't think it is fiscally possible anyway).

[bosk1]

OK.  I'll just recap 3 points briefly.

we'll just have to wait and see

reaching

Nobody really knows how ANY of these guys feel deep down, or what is said behind closed doors.

Beyond that, I can't speculate.

[Samsara]

No one is reaching, bosk. You happen to be a Ws fan who thinks really highly of one of your homegrown players. We all do that with our favorite teams. I happen to think Karl-Anthony Towns is irreplaceable. But I think most NBA fans would say that Anthony Davis is superior, and if healthy, Demarcus Cousins. They are probably right, but I'd still take "my guy" over both of them any day of the week.

You're homering for Green. Totally understandable. But your arguments on his behalf (in comparison to having him OR Durant) are very, very thin.

[jingle.boy]

You're right, but at the end of the day, if you ask anyone outside of Warriors fans whether they would want Durant-Curry-Thompson, or Green-Curry-Thomposon, all of them will say the latter three, hands-down.

I'll back this up.  I'd take Durant 8-days a week over Green.  Green reminds me more of a modern day Rodman... in EVERY aspect (except piercings and tats), whereas Durant is more like (but better than) Pippen.

Now... getting off of the Dubs again ...

Good win for the Dino's last night.  Sans Kahwi from a minor injury, Lowry and VanFleet stepped up, leading a very solid team performance.  All the starters got a chance to sit in the fourth, which will hopefully leave them as fresh as possible for the challenge tonight.  Hopefully Kahwi can play thru the pain.  Might have to stay up and watch this one.

[bosk1]

Is Kahwi a go for tonight?

[jingle.boy]

Is Kahwi a go for tonight?

I think it's a game-time decision.  I haven't heard for sure one way or the other.

[Samsara]

Man, I hope he plays. Heard it was a hip contusion. Hopefully that's code for "rest night," and he'll be playing tonight.

[jingle.boy]

Man, I hope he plays. Heard it was a hip contusion. Hopefully that's code for "rest night," and he'll be playing tonight.

Nah... I don't think it was 'code'.  They've been pretty open and transparent to just call it a rest/bench night when he has sat.  I just ready that it will be re-evaluated this afternoon.  The decision was made after the afternoon shoot-around, and it sounds like that'll be the same for today.

[Azyiu]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2810485-suns-owner-robert-sarver-threatening-to-move-team-to-seattle-or-las-vegas

Sarver is the worst owner in the league. The guy is clueless. He can pay for his own arena or go to hell. Let him take the Suns and his bad mojo somewhere else and then fans in AZ can get the Suns again, just like the Browns/Ravens.

[jingle.boy]

It's official ... Leonard is out.

And holy shit .... Kyrie with two killer 3s to nail the coffin on that OT vs the Wizards. That OT was gorgeous.

[TAC]

WE just watched it. Should've never gone to OT.

Robert Williams had another good game. The Celts haven't had a legit athletic big man since Perk. Not that Perk was that athletic.

[King Postwhore]

The kid is still very green (poetic) but I hope he continues to improve.

[TAC]

He has some major league raw talent. If he can get some minutes and learn, he's going to be a force.

[King Postwhore]

His start was very ominous.

[TAC]

Did you know he just had a baby?

Apparently he was even late pulling out.

[King Postwhore]

 

No kidding.

[TAC]

Hoping to see a Raptors loss last night. Apparently not..