NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs

[bosk1]

He is weird.  But I think the Clippers actually makes sense. Part of his oddness (and I think this somewhat applies to Durant as well, but to a lesser degree) is that he HAS TO be the top dog on his team, and I think he ultimately values that more than championships, even if he may not say that out loud.  His team has to really be "his team.". He would not have that dynamic on "LeBron's team."

[KevShmev]

And that is what I found weird about some NBA players.  They are too concerned with being "the man" than anything else.  Heck, some in-the-know have said that one of the reasons Durant left GS is because he knew it would be always be Steph Curry's team, and he couldn't deal with that.  Those alpha males sometimes get their priorities out of whack. 

[Lonk]

It works for some, not for other. Kyrie left Cleveland to be “the man” in Boston and that didn’t work out.

[TAC]

It works for some, not for other. Kyrie left Cleveland to be “the man” in Boston and that didn’t work out.

That's because Kyrie was a douche.

And that is what I found weird about some NBA players.  They are too concerned with being "the man" than anything else.  Heck, some in-the-know have said that one of the reasons Durant left GS is because he knew it would be always be Steph Curry's team, and he couldn't deal with that.  Those alpha males sometimes get their priorities out of whack. 

I feel like Kawhi is different, in that while he is an alpha dog, it may not be in the traditional sense, or in the dickhead sense. I don't know of it was so much playing with Lebron, as it was playing under the "spectacle" of Lebron.

[jingle.boy]

Clippers was always going to be the draw.  I think he wants the challenge of taking a team over the hump.  He's also a pretty reserved guy, so under the spotlight or the Lakers 'aura' wouldn't be his bag.  There's less of that associated with the Clippers.  Even with Kawhi, the Clippers will NEVER be the #1 LA team.  The glitz and glam of the Lakers is something I don't think he'd be up for.  Which is possibly part of the reason that he left the Raptors.  He was 'the man' for a market of 36M people.  Even the Lakers or Knicks couldn't compare to that.

There was a great article on SportsNet about his choice.  I don't think too many Canadian fans are gonna be mad at his decision - sad and disappointed, sure.  But, he was traded here, he never pretended to be anything he wasn't, and he just came and embraced his role/situation, and delivered the goods.  How can anyone be mad at that??

Rumour is that Ujiri might have had an offer from OKC for George and Westbrook, centered around giving back Siakim.  Not sure if it was a real offer or just OKC's way of extracting more out of the Clippers for George.

[KevShmev]

I feel like Kawhi is different, in that while he is an alpha dog, it may not be in the traditional sense, or in the dickhead sense. I don't know of it was so much playing with Lebron, as it was playing under the "spectacle" of Lebron.

Agreed.  As I have opined before, basketball players really worry about getting credit for winning, and it has reached the point where when LBJ's team wins, he gets all the credit, and when his team loses, it is everyone else's fault, and even though that usually was the case, I can see why players don't want to put themselves in a situation where you get little to no credit for winning and a lot of blame for losing.

[dparrott]

Dodgers, Rams, Lakers. Clips...this is going to be a fun year for L.A.

[Samsara]

With all of the Kawhi/George stuff, now it looks like (not surprisingly if he was offered in a trade to Toronto) Westbrook may be on the move. Reports are Detroit and Miami with significant interest. Particularly the latter. Pairing with General Soreness would be good for him.

I heard the "Kawhi will stay in Toronto if Toronto trades for Westbrook and George" rumor was more than a rumor. And that Ujiri turned it down BECAUSE he did not want to part with Siakim. IF that is true, Ujiri is an idiot. You make that trade. I don't care what the cost is. Toronto had a chance to secure its place with a dynasty (again, IF that proposed trade went down), and to not do it because Siakim was the gem that OKC wanted? That would be absolutely asinine to turn down. Again, IF it was true.

Overall, what a crazy last couple of weeks. Memphis just offered Tyus Jones three years, 28 million. I suspect the Wolves will match. If they don't, it means that Gerrson Rosas has a potential trade for another PG in the works. Because you can't enter the season with Jeff Teague, and no other PGs on the roster.

[jingle.boy]

I don't think Ujiri is an idiot at all. Given how much the Clippers gave back OKC for just George, I have to believe that they were asking for about that many picks and additional support players for both RW and PG. And seeing as how both only have 2 years before being FAs, that is mortgaging a very long future for 2 years of potential success. I think Ujiri is playing for long term succcess, and betting on his own ability to rebuild a championship contender when he's got $90M and all his picks after next season. I'm good with that. If they are in no-mans land come Feb, he's got assets in Lowry, Gasol, and Ibaka that could be moved for picks or upcoming talent.

It's not like the deal was Siakim for RW+PG.  How does he afford three max players when he's already got Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry at $23M, $25M, and $33M respectively? 

The Raps will reset this year, and build towards success for 2020 and beyond. Hell, Giannis is an FA

[Samsara]

I don't think Ujiri is an idiot at all. Given how much the Clippers gave back OKC for just George, I have to believe that they were asking for about that many picks and additional support players for both RW and PG. And seeing as how both only have 2 years before being FAs, that is mortgaging a very long future for 2 years of potential success. I think Ujiri is playing for long term succcess, and betting on his own ability to rebuild a championship contender when he's got $90M and all his picks after next season. I'm good with that. If they are in no-mans land come Feb, he's got assets in Lowry, Gasol, and Ibaka that could be moved for picks or upcoming talent.

It's not like the deal was Siakim for RW+PG.  How does he afford three max players when he's already got Ibaka, Gasol, Lowry at $23M, $25M, and $33M respectively? 

The Raps will reset this year, and build towards success for 2020 and beyond. Hell, Giannis is an FA

If he didn't pull the trigger on a deal that would have netted him three top-10 players in the NBA (George is arguably top 10, but I say more top-15), by including in the trade Siakam, then yes, he is an idiot. Yes, long term success, yadda, yadda, yadda. You had a dynasty window that would only get wider if you had KL, RW, PG, and whoever else. My guess is Siakam, along with Lowry, would be on the move to OKC in such a deal, as would picks, and contracts to make it all work.

Mortgaging the future for two more years of success? If you build a winner, particularly in a world class city like Toronto (which I think has been proven), the free agents will come. This potential trade we heard about would cost picks, for sure. But that would be overcome by the amount of star talent that after those two years, would head to Toronto on the strength of its championship pedigree, which would have continued if the scenario above came to fruition.

Sorry man. But IF there was indeed a scenario that the Raptors could have fielded a team with Kawhi Leonard, Russell Westbrook, and Paul George, that should have been done. And if that was all possible, and I think it was, then the absolute wrong move was made by Ujiri.

You can talk about resetting all you want. You need bold moves in today's NBA. The Clippers made those moves, and now they have your NBA Finals MVP, along with another top-15 guy, and a team of good role players. And Toronto has...an aging group with Siakam as its one potential All Star.

I feel for you and other Raptors fans. If this is how you're going to spin it to make yourself feel better, I get it (remember, I'm a Wolves fan, we've had like four decent years in 30). But bottom line, a mistake was made. And the Raptors pretty much are one and done. I don't see them being relevant in the NBA for a long time to come.

[jingle.boy]

Well, you’re free to have your opinion. I’ll trust the guy that built the championship team, and a 5-year winner over your beliefs. I seem to recall kev guaranteeing that Nurse blew the chip with that I’ll timed timeout in game 5.  I personally feel your opinion is as wrong as that statement is. I think Toronto already has the pedigree to attract top talent. We’ll find out next year at this time.

And if we’re still both here in 5-6 years, I’ll bet the Raps are in better shape than the Clippers.

[Samsara]

Well, you’re free to have your opinion. I’ll trust the guy that built the championship team, and a 5-year winner over your beliefs. I seem to recall kev guaranteeing that Nurse blew the chip with that I’ll timed timeout in game 5.  I personally feel your opinion is as wrong as that statement is. I think Toronto already has the pedigree to attract top talent. We’ll find out next year at this time.

And if we’re still both here in 5-6 years, I’ll bet the Raps are in better shape than the Clippers.

Honestly, I hope you ARE right. I've always liked the Raptors. And Kevin was wrong, and I also thought he was wrong, if you remember (turns out, we we right). But I wasn't talking about five-to-six years. Toronto finally won a ring. And in a very Florida/Miami Marlins-like fashion, sold the farm off right after winning in 1997. But unlike the first time, where they rebounded in six years to win another, I don't see the Raptors having the same level of rebound potential. Remember, they got NOTHING in return from Kawhi leaving. At least the Marlins got the farm system stocked when they made their second title run.

[KevShmev]

I can't get on board with any scenario that requires trading for Russell Westbrook and that albatross of a contract, not to mention that his style of play is not conducive to winning playoff basketball with him as the lead dog.

[jingle.boy]

Remember, they got NOTHING in return from Kawhi leaving.

But that was always the risk. Hell, when the trade was made, some were speculating he might not even report to the Raptors. It was always a high stakes move. BIG gamble - high risk, high reward. Fortunately, all the stars aligned to get the prize. Anything beyond won-and-done would have been gravy.  That was always understood - at least around here it was. If they didn't at least make the finals, there was no hope in him returning. Hell, maybe there never ever was any chance. We all knew it was a big gamble by Ujiri.

Depending on what reports you believe, some say there was never any real chance of that rumoured trade ... that OKC was only playing that card for leverage with LAC. I also heard a report that without George, Leonard was ready to sign with the Lakers. So if Ujiri makes the supposed deal, and Kahwi goes to the Lakers, then what?  The Raps might've ended up with 2 players that were the cornerstone of a team that couldn't do shit anyway, and in 2 years they walk, leaving Ujiri with 10lbs of nothing in a 5lb bag. No Siakim, no picks.

LAC made the big gamble this year. Anything less than at least a finals appearance next year will be a disappointment.  And when Clay comes back in 20/21, the West is that much tougher.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Calling Ujiri an idiot based on one decision after years upon years of good decisions is just wrong. So the guy builds an entire career as one of the most respected executives in the league, but is suddenly an idiot because he [1] rejected a trade proposal that may not have even existed and [2] we're just going to assume it was a terrible decision even though Westbrook is on the decline, Paul George just had double-shoulder surgery, Kawhi Leonard has a bum leg, and the financial implications of paying those guys may have been catastrophic.

And who cares if the Raptors got nothing in return from Kawhi leaving? They were a middling playoff team before he came and they'll be a middling playoff team now that he's gone. They won the championship. They became relevant for the first time in 25 years. I don't know why this is even something we're discussing.

[Samsara]

Calling Ujiri an idiot based on one decision after years upon years of good decisions is just wrong. So the guy builds an entire career as one of the most respected executives in the league, but is suddenly an idiot because he [1] rejected a trade proposal that may not have even existed and [2] we're just going to assume it was a terrible decision even though Westbrook is on the decline, Paul George just had double-shoulder surgery, Kawhi Leonard has a bum leg, and the financial implications of paying those guys may have been catastrophic.

And who cares if the Raptors got nothing in return from Kawhi leaving? They were a middling playoff team before he came and they'll be a middling playoff team now that he's gone. They won the championship. They became relevant for the first time in 25 years. I don't know why this is even something we're discussing.

The guy was allegedly presented a deal that would enable him to keep his Finals MVP, AND import both Paul George AND Russell Westbrook. And he turned it down, allegedly, because he wanted to keep a young forward who has shown All Star potential. So you turn down three HOFers, in the primes of their career, and likely a few more straight NBA Finals appearances, and probably another ring, maybe two, because you wanted to keep Siakam. And let's not be dramatic with the injuries. George will be fine. Westbrook had one "down" year, and still averaged a triple double. And he's 31, not 35. Stop. They are in their primes, and the Raptors didn't make it happen, because they wanted to keep a young guy who they developed. They passed on three HOFers, in their prime, including their own Finals MVP, because they wanted to keep some former G-leaguer that they developed who has All Star potential.

Tell me again how that's not idiotic? Trust me, I know idiotic when I see it. My team is the Timberwolves, after all. 

I understand the financial concerns. You basically wrap up 110 million in three guys. I totally get it. But if you want to win in this league, you need to spend. That's just the nature of it. The Warriors spend. The Cavs, with James, spent. And let's be real. The Raptors wouldn't have won this year if the Warriors were fully healthy in the playoffs. No one wants to outright say that, but that's the truth, and deep down, every Raptor fan knows it. Lord knows I don't want the Warriors winning, but the truth is what it is. The teams who spend, and bring in the high profile talent, generally win.

[Azyiu]

Maybe Ujiri is a Clippers fan at heart, and he wanted them to do good?  Hell! His team has just won an improbable title, so what's more there to prove? Lol! 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Calling Ujiri an idiot based on one decision after years upon years of good decisions is just wrong. So the guy builds an entire career as one of the most respected executives in the league, but is suddenly an idiot because he [1] rejected a trade proposal that may not have even existed and [2] we're just going to assume it was a terrible decision even though Westbrook is on the decline, Paul George just had double-shoulder surgery, Kawhi Leonard has a bum leg, and the financial implications of paying those guys may have been catastrophic.

And who cares if the Raptors got nothing in return from Kawhi leaving? They were a middling playoff team before he came and they'll be a middling playoff team now that he's gone. They won the championship. They became relevant for the first time in 25 years. I don't know why this is even something we're discussing.

The guy was allegedly presented a deal that would enable him to keep his Finals MVP, AND import both Paul George AND Russell Westbrook. And he turned it down, allegedly, because he wanted to keep a young forward who has shown All Star potential. So you turn down three HOFers, in the primes of their career, and likely a few more straight NBA Finals appearances, and probably another ring, maybe two, because you wanted to keep Siakam. And let's not be dramatic with the injuries. George will be fine. Westbrook had one "down" year, and still averaged a triple double. And he's 31, not 35. Stop. They are in their primes, and the Raptors didn't make it happen, because they wanted to keep a young guy who they developed. They passed on three HOFers, in their prime, including their own Finals MVP, because they wanted to keep some former G-leaguer that they developed who has All Star potential.

Tell me again how that's not idiotic? Trust me, I know idiotic when I see it. My team is the Timberwolves, after all. 

I understand the financial concerns. You basically wrap up 110 million in three guys. I totally get it. But if you want to win in this league, you need to spend. That's just the nature of it. The Warriors spend. The Cavs, with James, spent. And let's be real. The Raptors wouldn't have won this year if the Warriors were fully healthy in the playoffs. No one wants to outright say that, but that's the truth, and deep down, every Raptor fan knows it. Lord knows I don't want the Warriors winning, but the truth is what it is. The teams who spend, and bring in the high profile talent, generally win.

Even if I grant you that Ujiri made an idiotic decision - which I'm not sold on, but let's just roll with it - that doesn't make him an idiot in general. People make mistakes. What matters is the overall sample of decisions. For example, LeBron James isn't a bad basketball player because he was godawful against Dallas in 2011. You tally up the wins and the losses and if there are more wins than losses, then you get a thumb's up. Ujiri has a long history of making the right moves. A bad call here or there doesn't automatically make him an idiot.

[bosk1]

I can't say it is idiotic.  While I agree that teams in this era generally have to spend to win (although see the Warriors' 2014-2016 seasons), teams need to spend wisely.  I couldn't blame any owner for deeming the price tag associated with Westbrook and George to be unwise when you balance the talent on one hand against the price tag, drama/personality, injury potential, and age, on the other hand. 

[Samsara]

Even if I grant you that Ujiri made an idiotic decision - which I'm not sold on, but let's just roll with it - that doesn't make him an idiot in general. People make mistakes. What matters is the overall sample of decisions. For example, LeBron James isn't a bad basketball player because he was godawful against Dallas in 2011. You tally up the wins and the losses and if there are more wins than losses, then you get a thumb's up. Ujiri has a long history of making the right moves. A bad call here or there doesn't automatically make him an idiot.

I wrote it too literally -- that's what I meant. It was an idiotic decision. One that will bury the Raptors, and frankly, should cost him his job. Agreed, his decisions to this point were fairly sound. He's not a literal idiot. And I think, given how I post here, and what people here should by now understand from me, that should have come across. I've been complimentary (I think) about him in the past. But that was an IDIOTIC decision by him, and one that will haunt the Raptors for at least a decade.

I can't say it is idiotic.  While I agree that teams in this era generally have to spend to win (although see the Warriors' 2014-2016 seasons), teams need to spend wisely.  I couldn't blame any owner for deeming the price tag associated with Westbrook and George to be unwise when you balance the talent on one hand against the price tag, drama/personality, injury potential, and age, on the other hand. 

Don't worry. Your franchise's idiotic call is coming, in the form of Draymond Green, very, very soon. Let's pay a guy career averages of 9.1 ppg. 7.3 rpg, 4.9 apg, a 35 million per year max contract over five years.    And before you get all annoyed, I have a renewed respect for Draymond's game (except for that timeout call where he lost his mind under pressure). But that game is not at all worth (along with his antics) a max contract. But the Warriors will pay it, and if not them, someone will. And that will be an idiotic move. 

[TAC]

The guy was allegedly presented a deal that would enable him to keep his Finals MVP, AND import both Paul George AND Russell Westbrook.

Sam, not to be a dick, but where was that reported? I hadn't heard that other then what you have posted.

[bosk1]

Draymond Green

I believe the topic was Toronto. 

[Samsara]

The guy was allegedly presented a deal that would enable him to keep his Finals MVP, AND import both Paul George AND Russell Westbrook.

Sam, not to be a dick, but where was that reported? I hadn't heard that other then what you have posted.

This is one of many reports. Just google Westbrook, George to Toronto. You'll find it. Remember, I said "allegedly," since the reporting labeled it all rumor.

https://clutchpoints.com/raptors-rumors-thunder-gm-sam-presti-tried-to-trade-paul-george-russell-westbrook-to-toronto-talks-never-gained-traction/

Draymond Green

I believe the topic was Toronto. 

 

[TAC]

Cool, Sam. Thanks. NBA Free Agency has gotten a lot of play here, but I hadn't heard that Westbrook was included.

[Samsara]

Do we have any Clipper fans on here? They must be ecstatic!

And TAC, your Celtics may cycle through bigs this season at a record pace. 

When the dust finally settles this fall, I'm excited to see the rosters teams go into the regular season with. Minnesota isn't done, and I am sure a lot of others aren't done either. Miami is going to find a way to land Westbrook. A lot of people are talking Minnesota, and if they have a package centered around Wiggins and Teague to do that, I'd be fine with it. But I think Westbrook is going to steer himself right to South Beach and Jimmy Butler.

[TAC]

And TAC, your Celtics may cycle through bigs this season at a record pace. 

 

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Even if I grant you that Ujiri made an idiotic decision - which I'm not sold on, but let's just roll with it - that doesn't make him an idiot in general. People make mistakes. What matters is the overall sample of decisions. For example, LeBron James isn't a bad basketball player because he was godawful against Dallas in 2011. You tally up the wins and the losses and if there are more wins than losses, then you get a thumb's up. Ujiri has a long history of making the right moves. A bad call here or there doesn't automatically make him an idiot.

I wrote it too literally -- that's what I meant. It was an idiotic decision. One that will bury the Raptors, and frankly, should cost him his job. Agreed, his decisions to this point were fairly sound. He's not a literal idiot. And I think, given how I post here, and what people here should by now understand from me, that should have come across. I've been complimentary (I think) about him in the past. But that was an IDIOTIC decision by him, and one that will haunt the Raptors for at least a decade.

We should probably just agree to disagree. My mind is blown that that we're even discussing Ujiri losing his job when the guy has proven to be better than almost every other executive in the league over the course of his career. Who is available that would even be a better replacement? This is madness.

[jingle.boy]

@Sam... I admire your convictions in your beliefs, even when they're wrong  .  You sound like an arm-chair fan to lambaste Ujiri the way you have based on your assessment of a rumour.  You don't have all the facts (none of us do), nor do you know all the reasons for the decision (assuming the rumoured scenario is true).  You make a lot of assumptions, boil your argument down to a very simple 'get 3 great players no matter what and it'll guarantee success', and chastise the decision to make it a fireable offense and a decision that will bury the team.  Really not sure how you can ignore Ujiri's recent and long term success to quickly castigate this action/decision without giving the benefit of the doubt that he's an accomplished individual who likely has access to more information than you to make a better decision than you.  He is the President of his team afterall.  You're a dude on a music forum 

Maybe you're right, but I think the basis by which your forming your opinion is very myopic.

[Samsara]

In response to you both, we're all arm-chair fans. None of us, to my knowledge, is employed by a front office staff in professional basketball.

My thoughts or philosophy, at least when it comes to creating a team (something of which none of us truly know about except for fantasy hoops), is that when you have the ability to secure three Hall of Fame caliber players, in the PRIME of their careers (which all three of these guys mentioned, Kawhi, PG 13, and Russ), you DO IT. PARTICULARLY in a market that historically, has had a hard time attracting top level free agents and talent.

I never said my argument is "get 3 great players." I said if you have a chance for THREE HOF-caliber players in their prime. HUGE, HUGE difference.

Toronto has, by Kawhi leading them to a a chip, shown itself to not only be a top-class organization, but also a top-tier NBA city. All because of...Kawhi. Nevermind Vince, T-Mac, Mighty Mouse, DeRozen, etc....The Raptors came of age because of Kawhi Leonard and that title.

And if, again IF the RUMORS being reported by MULTIPLE sources are true, that Ujiri passed on getting those three HOF-caliber players together, because of a hesitancy to part with a G-League guy the team has developed into a promising, future All-Star, that is, at least in my estimation, given the situation regarding those HOF-caliber players' ages, a COLOSSAL error.

The Raptors are now back as a .500 team in the EAST with an aging Lowry, an old roster, and Siakam, who may end up being an All Star on a team that probably will go from NBA champs to missing the playoffs. Why? Because the President of the Raptors ALLEGEDLY passed on retaining/acquiring the HOF talent that would keep them in the limelight, and most likely led to another ring.

To simplify, the Raptors are back in the North, alone, with no real hope of contending again for the foreseeable future. All because ALLEGEDLY, Ujiri wouldn't part with Siakam.

IF all that is true, tell me again how I'm wrong. I'm not.

Now, :

Maybe you're right, but I think the basis by which your forming your opinion is very myopic.

Far from it. I have as much insight into this issue as anyone who is just a fan. Thirty years a fan of two teams (Wolves and Knicks - like I said, I know ineptitude when I see it, ha ha ha), a sportswriter for five years in a major market back in the prehistoric era, and someone who follows the business of the NBA rabidly now.  I can turn around and toss insults at you, jingle (no need to call the basis of my opinion myopic). But I wouldn't do that. You love your team. You should. Hell, your team is a lot more successful than my Wolves have ever been. We're all just fans, on a music forum. With no real "expertise" other than our personal experiences (unless someone on here is holding out and works for a professional sports franchise in a front office).

We should probably just agree to disagree. My mind is blown that that we're even discussing Ujiri losing his job when the guy has proven to be better than almost every other executive in the league over the course of his career. Who is available that would even be a better replacement? This is madness.

I think, based on the alleged stuff above, if that's true, Ujiri made such a huge, huge error. Kawhi not returning is one thing. If the Raptors made their pitch, and Kawhi leaves, that is the risk that was taken. It is what it is. But my heated statements are not on that. They are directly aimed at the reports that Kawhi was not retained BECAUSE Ujiri passed on trading for PG 13 and Russ BECAUSE he didn't want to let go of Siakam. THAT is what I am fired up about. If that's true, as stated above, I think the level of error in that decision was incredibly high, and I would have fired him, yeah. But that's why I'm not a team owner. 

If we disagree, that's totally fine.

And guys, I'm not taking this personally. I hope you all aren't either. I love the NBA free agency, the player movement, the drama, the team building, and all of this banter. I have nothing but respect for all of you. I enjoy the back and forth. I just feel strongly about this particular situation.
 

[jingle.boy]

Hey Bri... I worded parts of my post poorly. I didn’t mean to insult you at all. I’m on my phone, and lengthy detailed posts are difficult. Apologies for coming across that way.

More later when I’m at my PC

[jingle.boy]

In response to you both, we're all arm-chair fans. None of us, to my knowledge, is employed by a front office staff in professional basketball.

I meant to imply you sound like an amateur/uneducated/fly-by-night fan without much knowledge and experience with the sport/league.  Your castigation of Ujiri over this action is rather profound, and unwarranted given his years of demonstrable success - and willingness to do 'whatever it takes'. 

. PARTICULARLY in a market that historically, has had a hard time attracting top level free agents and talent.

I think Ujiri has shown he's more than capable of using all tools at his disposal (trade, draft, develop, FA) to build a winning team.

I never said my argument is "get 3 great players." I said if you have a chance for THREE HOF-caliber players in their prime. HUGE, HUGE difference.

no matter the cost?  No one has even reported what the deal would've looked like.  You haven't qualified your statements with anything - it's 'it's an idiot move for not doing it.'  period.  You don't think Ujiri is smart or qualified enough to make a complete decision taking into account multiple factors?  You boil it down to the fact he bailed ONLY because it involved Siakim.

Toronto has, by Kawhi leading them to a a chip, shown itself to not only be a top-class organization, but also a top-tier NBA city. All because of...Kawhi. Nevermind Vince, T-Mac, Mighty Mouse, DeRozen, etc....The Raptors came of age because of Kawhi Leonard and that title.

You seem to quickly forget all the credit that was given to Ujiri for GETTING (and taking the risk on) Kawhi.  The Raptors came of age this year because of Kawhi, sure.  But do they all of a sudden become a has-been franchise with his departure?  Serious question.  Is that how the rest of the league views the Raptors now?

And if, again IF the RUMORS being reported by MULTIPLE sources are true, that Ujiri passed on getting those three HOF-caliber players together, because of a hesitancy to part with a G-League guy the team has developed into a promising, future All-Star, that is, at least in my estimation, given the situation regarding those HOF-caliber players' ages, a COLOSSAL error.

Again, you're minimizing what the 'give' is - and you're minimizing the potential of Siakim.  When guys like PG himself, Giannis, Olapida, and Butler have won the Most Improved award, it's insulting that you tag Siakim as a 'G-League guy'.

The Raptors are now back as a .500 team in the EAST with an aging Lowry, an old roster, and Siakam, who may end up being an All Star on a team that probably will go from NBA champs to missing the playoffs.

.500 team?  I doubt it.  I say they are mid/high 40-win team.  They still have 7 of the 8 players that were elements of a championship winning team.
And name me the 8 teams ahead of them that make the playoffs.  C'mon man, now you're just being ridiculous.  Det/Orl/Cha all gonna finish higher than the Raptors?  You're smarter than this. 

To simplify, the Raptors are back in the North, alone, with no real hope of contending again for the foreseeable future. All because ALLEGEDLY, Ujiri wouldn't part with Siakam.

see above

IF all that is true, tell me again how I'm wrong. I'm not.

For starters, not all of that is true.  And yes, you are wrong.  As TOX said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Far from it. I have as much insight into this issue as anyone who is just a fan. Thirty years a fan of two teams (Wolves and Knicks - like I said, I know ineptitude when I see it, ha ha ha), a sportswriter for five years in a major market back in the prehistoric era, and someone who follows the business of the NBA rabidly now.

Which is why I'm really frustrated with your stance.  You're displaying zero critical thinking skills in jumping to 'you didn't trade PG + RW for Siakim.  IDIOT!'  If it was that simply, then yes... it's an idiotic move. 

I can turn around and toss insults at you, jingle (no need to call the basis of my opinion myopic).

I didn't mean to be insulting, but I'm seeing a distinct lack of deeper evaluation on your part to recognize that Ujiri's decision making undoubtedly involves information that we don't know.

And guys, I'm not taking this personally. I hope you all aren't either. I love the NBA free agency, the player movement, the drama, the team building, and all of this banter. I have nothing but respect for all of you. I enjoy the back and forth. I just feel strongly about this particular situation.

I'm not taking anything personally, and glad to hear that you aren't.  Just nice and warm banter.   

[TAC]

Hey Bri... I worded parts of my post poorly. I didn’t mean to insult you at all.

I meant to imply you sound like an amateur/uneducated/fly-by-night fan without much knowledge and experience with the sport/league. 

….

...  C'mon man, now you're just being ridiculous.   

...  And yes, you are wrong. 

…. You're displaying zero critical thinking skills ….

 

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, but not in an insulting way.   

I guess that first and fourth line Tim quoted sure didn't sound much better. 

It's late... I'm on day 2 of a crazy 4-day week with my company's annual conference, and a few glasses of wine at dinner didn't help my wording.

[TAC]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kawhi-leonards-requests-to-raptors-reportedly-unreasonable/ar-AAE8hrM?li=BBnb7Kz

[bosk1]

From that article:

One of Lewenberg’s sources describes those requests as “unreasonable,” suggesting that Raptors president of basketball operations Masai Ujiri wouldn’t have been able to meet them all even if he’d wanted to.

The requests caused the Raptors to question whether Leonard was seriously considering them at all, according to Lewenberg. A belief that Kawhi was eyeing the Clippers all along prompted the Raptors to not get too invested in potential trade discussions with the Thunder. Lewenberg suggests that those preliminary talks included Paul George, but not Russell Westbrook, and didn’t even reach the team’s highest-ranking executives.

...

Grange adds that the Raptors’ contact with the Thunder in the hours leading up to Leonard’s announcement “may have been somewhat exaggerated.” Toronto tapped out fairly early once it was evident OKC was using talks with the Raptors as leverage.

So much for obvious idiocy.