Author Topic: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Raptors are Champs  (Read 78365 times)

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1015 on: June 08, 2019, 06:23:22 AM »
If Toronto wins this series and Durant leaves Golden St., the dynasty might very well be ending.  Not that the Warriors wouldn't still be a top contender with as good a chance as any, but their days of being the clear favorite will be over.  Somewhere Kevin Durant is smiling, as he has to know how good what is happening is for his legacy.  I have said since his arrival that he was more of a luxury than a need, but it is becoming clear that they need him in order to win it all (unless in cases like 2015 where the team they are playing loses their 2nd and 3rd best players).

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1016 on: June 08, 2019, 09:48:26 AM »
OMG! We can’t have a championship go to those war-mongering, gun-lovin Canadians! Next thing we know they will invade us with Tim Hortons popping up at every street corner...  :lol

Ok, in all seriousness, I agreed with jingle.boy on all dynasties must fall one day, yet I think the Warriors will still remain as a title contender next year even without KD. Maybe they are just like the 80's Lakers / Celtics that don't win it all every year, but we will definitely see them around. With them staying competitive along with teams like Houston and maybe the Nuggets, while teams in the East get stronger with great chance of winning it all; is good for the league.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1017 on: June 08, 2019, 11:55:02 AM »
If Toronto wins this series and Durant leaves Golden St., the dynasty might very well be ending.  Not that the Warriors wouldn't still be a top contender with as good a chance as any, but their days of being the clear favorite will be over.  Somewhere Kevin Durant is smiling, as he has to know how good what is happening is for his legacy.  I have said since his arrival that he was more of a luxury than a need, but it is becoming clear that they need him in order to win it all (unless in cases like 2015 where the team they are playing loses their 2nd and 3rd best players).

If the Warriors lose without Durant, I think it helps him dodge the "Durant is just an insurance policy" bullet, but I don't think it changes what already happened these past few years. There are a lot of other players who could have won championships with the Warriors in 2017 and 2018. Assuming the Warriors are indeed eliminated, I'm dreading the inevitable onslaught of "Durant is vindicated!" stories. At the end of the day, I think that Durant is a phenomenal player who was underrated before going to Golden State, but has probably become a bit overrated since then.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1018 on: June 08, 2019, 03:05:44 PM »
If Toronto wins this series and Durant leaves Golden St., the dynasty might very well be ending.  Not that the Warriors wouldn't still be a top contender with as good a chance as any, but their days of being the clear favorite will be over.  Somewhere Kevin Durant is smiling, as he has to know how good what is happening is for his legacy.  I have said since his arrival that he was more of a luxury than a need, but it is becoming clear that they need him in order to win it all (unless in cases like 2015 where the team they are playing loses their 2nd and 3rd best players).

Well, the Durant gamble payed off, that's for sure. But bringing him into the team also meant not having a good bench. Now that he is out injured, we can see how that is affecting this team. If Durant walks, the Warriors can retool and go back to the days when they had good rotation and the backup guys could actually help Steph and Klay. I wouldn't kill the dynasty just yet.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1019 on: June 08, 2019, 11:01:12 PM »
If Toronto wins this series and Durant leaves Golden St., the dynasty might very well be ending.  Not that the Warriors wouldn't still be a top contender with as good a chance as any, but their days of being the clear favorite will be over.  Somewhere Kevin Durant is smiling, as he has to know how good what is happening is for his legacy.  I have said since his arrival that he was more of a luxury than a need, but it is becoming clear that they need him in order to win it all (unless in cases like 2015 where the team they are playing loses their 2nd and 3rd best players).

If the Warriors lose without Durant, I think it helps him dodge the "Durant is just an insurance policy" bullet, but I don't think it changes what already happened these past few years. There are a lot of other players who could have won championships with the Warriors in 2017 and 2018. Assuming the Warriors are indeed eliminated, I'm dreading the inevitable onslaught of "Durant is vindicated!" stories. At the end of the day, I think that Durant is a phenomenal player who was underrated before going to Golden State, but has probably become a bit overrated since then.

Underrated?? For a few years he was consider second in the league only to Lebron, and some even said Durant was #1 specially after his MVP season.  wouldn’t call that underrated.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1020 on: June 09, 2019, 01:13:41 PM »
Toronto just looks like that team of destiny, doesn't it? It's been an exciting series. Losing Durant is huge. This stage is why the Warriors got him. And at 7 feet, he sees over everyone. The defenders don't bother him. That said, even WITH Durant, watching the Raptors, it may not even have mattered. You can just feel how much more it means to them. We'll see if they can pull it off. It has been a wild ride.

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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1021 on: June 09, 2019, 01:16:40 PM »
The Raptors have been knocking on the door to break through in the East for as number of years now. I thought the Ibaka pick up at the deadline a couple years ago was huge and Siakim has really blossomed.

But let's face it. This is ALL about Kawhi Leonard.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1022 on: June 09, 2019, 06:54:14 PM »
KD maybe cleared to play in Game 5... so he can lose together with the rest of the team... ahh... what team spirit, lol  :lol
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1023 on: June 09, 2019, 06:57:08 PM »
So the Knicks said it was OK for him to play?? ;D
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1024 on: June 10, 2019, 06:30:20 AM »
The Raptors have been knocking on the door to break through in the East for as number of years now. I thought the Ibaka pick up at the deadline a couple years ago was huge and Siakim has really blossomed.

But let's face it. This is ALL about Kawhi Leonard.


I'm actually going to disagree with you a bit on this one, TAC. Kawhi has been a beast, no doubt. He might be the best player in the league. He deserves a lot of credit. But we have an incredible defense that goes way beyond him, and we get All-Star production on offense from at least one other player per game. I really can't say enough about this team from top to bottom.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1025 on: June 10, 2019, 08:14:12 AM »
That's true TOX, but in Leonard, the Raps have a player that can end offensive runs when the defense gets soft.  You have a guy that can silence the opposing crowd, and a guy that gives the rest of the team better offensive chances because of the attention he draws.  Cousins has been largely invisible this series because Kerr can't afford to have him out on the floor for too long forhe hampers the entire GSW defensive schemes.

Yes, this is an elite defense - every team they've faced this post season scored demonstrably worse than their regular season and post season averages.  But it's his talent on both ends of the court that drive the Raps engine.
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1026 on: June 10, 2019, 08:19:09 AM »
That's true TOX, but in Leonard, the Raps have a player that can end offensive runs when the defense gets soft.  You have a guy that can silence the opposing crowd, and a guy that gives the rest of the team better offensive chances because of the attention he draws.  Cousins has been largely invisible this series because Kerr can't afford to have him out on the floor for too long forhe hampers the entire GSW defensive schemes.

Yes, this is an elite defense - every team they've faced this post season scored demonstrably worse than their regular season and post season averages.  But it's his talent on both ends of the court that drive the Raps engine.

Agreed! I just don't think it's all about him. You need a driver (Kawhi) but you need an engine (supporting cast) too.
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Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1027 on: June 10, 2019, 09:27:30 AM »
The Raptors have been knocking on the door to break through in the East for as number of years now. I thought the Ibaka pick up at the deadline a couple years ago was huge and Siakim has really blossomed.

But let's face it. This is ALL about Kawhi Leonard.


I'm actually going to disagree with you a bit on this one, TAC. Kawhi has been a beast, no doubt. He might be the best player in the league. He deserves a lot of credit. But we have an incredible defense that goes way beyond him, and we get All-Star production on offense from at least one other player per game. I really can't say enough about this team from top to bottom.


No Kawhi, no finals. Not sure if Derozen gets them there. I’m not trying to take anything away from Toronto. They were my preseason pick to come out of the East.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1028 on: June 10, 2019, 09:50:48 AM »
The Raptors have been knocking on the door to break through in the East for as number of years now. I thought the Ibaka pick up at the deadline a couple years ago was huge and Siakim has really blossomed.

But let's face it. This is ALL about Kawhi Leonard.


I'm actually going to disagree with you a bit on this one, TAC. Kawhi has been a beast, no doubt. He might be the best player in the league. He deserves a lot of credit. But we have an incredible defense that goes way beyond him, and we get All-Star production on offense from at least one other player per game. I really can't say enough about this team from top to bottom.


No Kawhi, no finals. Not sure if Derozen gets them there. I’m not trying to take anything away from Toronto. They were my preseason pick to come out of the East.

Bingo.  He is the difference maker.  Take away ANY other part of that team, and there could be a replacement player to backfill what they provide.  EG... they may have still make the finals with JV vs Gasol.  Maybe Embiid gets the best of him and the 76rs get by, maybe not.  No matter the example, Leonard is the only player they couldn't get by without.  Yes, they were 17-5 without Leonard during the season, but 13 of those games were against non-playoff teams.  So, 4-5 against playoff teams - without Kawhi (or even if they had last year's roster), they likely don't get past the 2nd round, and certainly not the Bucks.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1029 on: June 10, 2019, 10:10:44 AM »
Not disagreeing, but the original statement was that it was "all" about Kawhi. If you remove Gasol and Pascal, do the Raptors even get past the 76ers? I doubt it. All I'm saying is that basketball is a team sport, and one player does not deserve all the credit or the blame.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1030 on: June 10, 2019, 12:35:13 PM »
Well, tonight Kwahi will probably get his second finals MVP.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1031 on: June 10, 2019, 12:58:20 PM »
Lots of indications that KD is medically cleared, and may actually suit up tonight.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1032 on: June 10, 2019, 01:35:40 PM »
Yeah, I've read he's good to go tonight. I imagine he won't play his normal minutes. Guessing 20. Be an amazing story if his play carried the Warriors back from a 3-1 hole to win it. But I don't see it happening. It would be an incredible ride though.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1033 on: June 10, 2019, 08:24:26 PM »
Hate to see a player go down, but I KNEW KD was not going to make it thru the entire game.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1034 on: June 10, 2019, 08:26:26 PM »
Hate to see a player go down, but I KNEW KD was not going to make it thru the entire game.

Going out like that just sucks... I think it is over for the Warriors... can't see them holding on and force a Game 6.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1035 on: June 10, 2019, 08:30:33 PM »
Not disagreeing, but the original statement was that it was "all" about Kawhi. If you remove Gasol and Pascal, do the Raptors even get past the 76ers? I doubt it. All I'm saying is that basketball is a team sport, and one player does not deserve all the credit or the blame.

I know. the Raptors have been a really good team for the past half decade or so. Seems they have been knocking on the door. Well, it was Kawhi that opened the door. That's all I'm saying. You can talk Gasol and Pascal all you want, but in the end, this team will get as far as Kawhi will take them.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1036 on: June 10, 2019, 08:32:53 PM »
Exactly.   Teams need the top 5 to win the big one.  Of course you need 15 through 30th best as a 2 or 3 but without Kawhi,  this team is out in the 1st or 2nd round.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1037 on: June 10, 2019, 09:34:18 PM »
The Raptors coach might be the dumbest person ever.  Up 6 with all of the momentum and the crowd going nuts and the ball, and he calls a timeout!!  And then the Warriors rip off 9 straight.  Wow. :lol :lol :lol

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1038 on: June 10, 2019, 09:39:02 PM »
Toronto's idiot coach might have just cost the city and the fans a championship.  Unreal.

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1039 on: June 10, 2019, 09:42:48 PM »
Toronto's idiot coach might have just cost the city and the fans a championship.  Unreal.

Wow! Didn't even see that coming... I thought the Warriors were DONE by the 3-minute mark...
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1040 on: June 10, 2019, 09:44:37 PM »
Yeah, I thought that was weird. And then NOT to call the last timeout to draw up a play?  Bad shot selection for that last attempt.

Toronto’s 3-point shooting was what cost them. And The Dubs setting a record with 20 3s
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1041 on: June 11, 2019, 06:29:23 AM »
The Raptors coach might be the dumbest person ever.  Up 6 with all of the momentum and the crowd going nuts and the ball, and he calls a timeout!!  And then the Warriors rip off 9 straight.  Wow. :lol :lol :lol

His explanation for it was bizarre.  Certainly a boneheaded move, but to call him the dumbest "coach" ever is harsh.  Dumbest "call" ever?  Not even close - anyone involved in putting KD on the floor last night gets that award.  Anyone catch the presser with Bob Myers explaining it?  Holy crocodile tears - I've seen better acting in a kindergarten production of Grease.

It sucks to see that one slip away, but the way I see it... GSW shot 20-42 from three; the Splash Bros had 57 pts (54% of the offence); KD drilled 11 in 12 minutes; they shot 46% from the floor; Boogie was dominant for a period and chipped in 14.

Kawhi went silent in 3Q with a single point; they shot 25% from three; missed a handful of easy looks (especially Siakim); shot 77% from the free-throw line (88% for the series).

All that said, and the Dubs were still held below their offensive average, and still only won by a single point - with Green's fingernails possibly saving the game/series/title (for now).

Both GSW victories were easily winnable for the Raps.  Not sure the same can be said for GSW's losses.  Maybe that's a homer statement, but the eyetest says the Raps victories were a quite a bit more comfortable than the Dubs' victories.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1042 on: June 11, 2019, 07:15:19 AM »
Both GSW victories were easily winnable for the Raps.  Not sure the same can be said for GSW's losses.  Maybe that's a homer statement, but the eyetest says the Raps victories were a quite a bit more comfortable than the Dubs' victories.

No arguing that, its the truth. I am honestly surprised that the warriors are struggling this hard. It might be all the injuries, it might be burnouts, who knows. Curry himself is shooting a lot worse than his regular season self.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Canada on the verge!!
« Reply #1043 on: June 11, 2019, 08:21:51 AM »
Hate to see a player go down, but I KNEW KD was not going to make it thru the entire game.

Anyone who has had a calf/achilles injury knows the incredible pain there is with it. THere was no way he should have been playing. All the doctors on the Warriors staff should be fired. All of them. To a person.

I almost blew out my achilles a couple years ago. I was doing some new training, scaling vertical walls (like you see in that American Ninja Warrior stuff), and I planted and pushed up, and felt my calf roll. Immense pain. I hung there at the top of the wall, unable to use my left leg. Pulled myself up (my arms hurt for days, lol), slid down the poll (landed on my right leg) and went straight to the doctor, partially torn calf muscle, achilles was compromised. Rest and rehab. Its still not 100, and it was more than a year ago. I have to really stretch well to play basketball, or it starts shooting pain immediately when I lift to shoot. So, I can only imagine what KD was experiencing when he hurt his calf, and now, achilles. The guy risked his career for the Warriors, on the trust of his doctors. And now look.

HUGE loss for the NBA, not just the Warriors. Here's hoping KD has a full and speedy recovery.

But can I say something? I know its not all Raptors fans, but the conduct when KD went down was reprehensible. Absolutely uncalled for.
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1044 on: June 11, 2019, 08:49:02 AM »
But can I say something? I know its not all Raptors fans, but the conduct when KD went down was reprehensible. Absolutely uncalled for.

I can't disagree.  I know that my instant reaction was "HA... I knew he wasn't ready to play", and felt a momentary twinge of excitement that the odds for the Raps just went up.  That lasted about 1/2 a second and then I saw how bad it was.  Multiply that by about 18,000, and I suspect that is what happened in the arena.  But the time KD got across the court, the arena realized what was happening, and were chanting his name.

The initial reaction is inexcusable, if not understandable - certainly by anyone from Philly or Oakland area football fans.   :lol ;)
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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1045 on: June 11, 2019, 09:30:45 AM »
I get it. But see, in the arena, after it happened and KD stood up and hobbled, they KEPT cheering. Even after being told to stop by the Raptors players. That's disgraceful.

I absolutely understand the excitement of wanting to win a title. As a Wolves fan, I can only imagine how excited I'll be when they eventually get there (hopefully in my lifetime). But that all stops when someone goes down in pain. Not casting any shame on you at all, personally. Obviously, you saw what it was, and realized. I just think as a whole, the Raptors' fan base in the arena that night should be ashamed of itself.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1046 on: June 11, 2019, 03:05:37 PM »
There are a-holes in every city with no class who would cheer an injury; that is not exclusive to Toronto, Boston or even Philly.  I think taking Toronto to task for cheering for an injury that they couldn't have possibly known was as bad as it appears to be is a big much.  They did, after all, quickly cheer for KD when he got up to leave the court and started chanting his name (in acronym form :P).

The real travesty last night is still Nick Nurse.  It still boggles the mind what he did, especially if you watch the replays and then hear his boneheaded explanation.  The Warriors looked totally gassed on defense when he called the timeout!!  There is no doubt in my mind that the Warriors are going to come back and win this series, and Nick Nurse will have to live with the shame forever.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1047 on: June 11, 2019, 03:28:36 PM »
There is no doubt in my mind that the Warriors are going to come back and win this series, and Nick Nurse will have to live with the shame forever.

I'm not sure whether you and I have been watching the same series.  It's certainly possible, but over the course of these 5 games, you're going to bank on one ill-timed decision by Nurse as the point that convinces you the Dubs can beat the Raptors 2 more times?

Okey dokey then.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1048 on: June 11, 2019, 03:31:00 PM »
Let's put it this way: I will be stunned if the Raptors beat the Warriors a 3rd time in Golden St, especially with it being the last game at Oracle.  And if it goes to a Game 7, I will take the shooting and experience of the Warriors over a Raptors team that might be playing a little tight in fear of blowing the championship after having had a 3 games to 1 lead.  If the Raptors win the series, I will give them full props, but I think last night was their best shot and they blew it thanks to their dim-witted coach.

Offline TAC

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Re: NBA thread 2018-2019 v. Warriors saved by the dumbest coach ever
« Reply #1049 on: June 11, 2019, 03:31:37 PM »
I'm not sure whether you and I have been watching the same series.

 :lol
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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