Van Halen for the rest of your life

[Stadler]

5150 is so up and down for me (ironic, huh, from the guy that likes Diver Down!).  I love the ballads, but the rockers... they were missing something for me.   I'm a big Sammy fan - his early 80's Geffen records are essential for me - but I missed the tongue-in-cheek-ness of Dave; some of his songs missed the humor and were a little more dark and lascivious, and that didn't work for me.

On 5150?

Good Enough, Get Up, Summer Nights, Best of Both Worlds, 5150?  Not sure what I'm missing there.

Thought the exact same thing

Well, the only ones that REALLY apply are Good Enough and Get Up.  I don't think of Summer Nights and 5150 as "rockers" in that sense of the word, but Good Enough, Get Up and 5150 sort of embody that Sammy "boxer down for the count" point of view he uses a lot, as compared to Roth's more "Master Of Ceremonies" role.  Think Roth:  The Yankee Rose video, and Hagar: the boxer in the corner on his greatest hits record.

Summer Nights is one of, if not the best song on the record. 

[hefdaddy42]

Hmm.  Apart from Roth being physically unable to sing those songs, I don't feel that any of them would have been out of place on the earlier albums (although there are certainly song on later Hagar VH albums that I would think would be).  There's certainly nothing dark about them, and "lascivious" is not a word I would really use for any of VH's songs, but if I did, I don't feel that the Hagar songs are extremely more so than Roth's.

Just my two cents.

[Trav86]

5150 was the first VH album I owned. If I was was forced to choose just one, that would be it. It probably has more memories and nostalgia attached to it than any album (by any artist) in my life.

[Dublagent66]

FW and 1984 are the 2 best VH albums ever.  2nd option easily.

[Stadler]

Hmm.  Apart from Roth being physically unable to sing those songs, I don't feel that any of them would have been out of place on the earlier albums (although there are certainly song on later Hagar VH albums that I would think would be).  There's certainly nothing dark about them, and "lascivious" is not a word I would really use for any of VH's songs, but if I did, I don't feel that the Hagar songs are extremely more so than Roth's.

Just my two cents.

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

Diver Down - a pun, a diving term, but with sexual innuendo buried under the surface - versus, say, "F.U.C.K.", which is about as blunt as you can get, or "OU812" - Oh, You Ate One Too! - which isn't really innuendo, since there's no real straight or alternate meaning to it.  Bottom's Up - C'mo-mo-mo-mo-mon baby, bottom's up! versus, say, Amsterdam - wham, bam, oh Amsterdam!.  I'll try to find the interview, but in the wake of the first Hagar breakup, even Eddie noted the lack of subtlety in the Amsterdam lyrics.   I just find it to be a shade heavy handed, is all.   

EDIT: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/van-halen-amsterdam-song/

[jammindude]

My understanding is that OU812 came directly from EVH as a response to DLR’s Eat Em and Smile.

[bosk1]

Hmm.  Apart from Roth being physically unable to sing those songs, I don't feel that any of them would have been out of place on the earlier albums (although there are certainly song on later Hagar VH albums that I would think would be).  There's certainly nothing dark about them, and "lascivious" is not a word I would really use for any of VH's songs, but if I did, I don't feel that the Hagar songs are extremely more so than Roth's.

Just my two cents.

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

Diver Down - a pun, a diving term, but with sexual innuendo buried under the surface - versus, say, "F.U.C.K.", which is about as blunt as you can get, or "OU812" - Oh, You Ate One Too! - which isn't really innuendo, since there's no real straight or alternate meaning to it.  Bottom's Up - C'mo-mo-mo-mo-mon baby, bottom's up! versus, say, Amsterdam - wham, bam, oh Amsterdam!.  I'll try to find the interview, but in the wake of the first Hagar breakup, even Eddie noted the lack of subtlety in the Amsterdam lyrics.   I just find it to be a shade heavy handed, is all.   

EDIT: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/van-halen-amsterdam-song/

I don't get the distinction you are trying to make.

[Stadler]

My understanding is that OU812 came directly from EVH as a response to DLR’s Eat Em and Smile.

Not a lot of subtlety there; even look where the spindle hole is.

[hefdaddy42]

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

OK, but neither Black and Blue nor Poundcake are on 5150, which is what we were talking about.

Diver Down - a pun, a diving term, but with sexual innuendo buried under the surface - versus, say, "F.U.C.K.", which is about as blunt as you can get, or "OU812" - Oh, You Ate One Too! - which isn't really innuendo, since there's no real straight or alternate meaning to it.  Bottom's Up - C'mo-mo-mo-mo-mon baby, bottom's up! versus, say, Amsterdam - wham, bam, oh Amsterdam!.  I'll try to find the interview, but in the wake of the first Hagar breakup, even Eddie noted the lack of subtlety in the Amsterdam lyrics.   I just find it to be a shade heavy handed, is all.   

EDIT: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/van-halen-amsterdam-song/

My understanding is that OU812 came directly from EVH as a response to DLR’s Eat Em and Smile.

Exactly.

EDIT:  On that image of the disc, that hand symbol that was often displayed by both fans and band members at VH shows, well before OU812 was released.  It has nothing to do with eating whatever you think they are talking about eating (certainly not what I think you're talking about eating).

[Stadler]

Hmm.  Apart from Roth being physically unable to sing those songs, I don't feel that any of them would have been out of place on the earlier albums (although there are certainly song on later Hagar VH albums that I would think would be).  There's certainly nothing dark about them, and "lascivious" is not a word I would really use for any of VH's songs, but if I did, I don't feel that the Hagar songs are extremely more so than Roth's.

Just my two cents.

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

Diver Down - a pun, a diving term, but with sexual innuendo buried under the surface - versus, say, "F.U.C.K.", which is about as blunt as you can get, or "OU812" - Oh, You Ate One Too! - which isn't really innuendo, since there's no real straight or alternate meaning to it.  Bottom's Up - C'mo-mo-mo-mo-mon baby, bottom's up! versus, say, Amsterdam - wham, bam, oh Amsterdam!.  I'll try to find the interview, but in the wake of the first Hagar breakup, even Eddie noted the lack of subtlety in the Amsterdam lyrics.   I just find it to be a shade heavy handed, is all.   

EDIT: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/van-halen-amsterdam-song/

I don't get the distinction you are trying to make.

I just think there's a humorous, tongue-in-cheek aspect to the Roth lyrics, I think the Hagar lyrics are a bit more, direct and dirty, let's say.   That's pretty much it.

EDIT:  I do this by accident sometimes; I accidentally embed my response in the middle.

[bosk1]

  Ok...you quoted me, so...? 

[TAC]

  Ok...you quoted me, so...? 

[hefdaddy42]

Glad I'm not the only one confused by that.

[Stadler]

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

OK, but neither Black and Blue nor Poundcake are on 5150, which is what we were talking about.

Ugh.  I tried to express the feeling using 5150 songs and that didn't work, so I expanded it to songs in general.  I didn't say those were on 5150, BUT I still get the same FEELING from some of the songs on 5150.  I don't know what to tell you.  I thought Roth had more swag and implicit humor than Hagar.   I LIKE Sammy, so it's not a knock, just a difference in styles.   I like the Roth hanging from the rafters with a boombox and sunglasses vibe of Van Halen more than I like the less subtle version that came later.  When even the BAND MEMBERS say this, I'm not THAT far off base even if you disagree (which is fine).

My understanding is that OU812 came directly from EVH as a response to DLR’s Eat Em and Smile.

Exactly.

EDIT:  On that image of the disc, that hand symbol that was often displayed by both fans and band members at VH shows, well before OU812 was released.  It has nothing to do with eating whatever you think they are talking about eating (certainly not what I think you're talking about eating).

Whether it was before, during and after, what, then, is it supposed to symbolize?  (Each half is I love you in sign language, isn't it?)

[TAC]

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

OK, but neither Black and Blue nor Poundcake are on 5150, which is what we were talking about.

Ugh.  I tried to express the feeling using 5150 songs and that didn't work, so I expanded it to songs in general.  I didn't say those were on 5150, BUT I still get the same FEELING from some of the songs on 5150. 

 

Stadler!!

[bosk1]

Hmm.  Apart from Roth being physically unable to sing those songs, I don't feel that any of them would have been out of place on the earlier albums (although there are certainly song on later Hagar VH albums that I would think would be).  There's certainly nothing dark about them, and "lascivious" is not a word I would really use for any of VH's songs, but if I did, I don't feel that the Hagar songs are extremely more so than Roth's.

Just my two cents.

Not arguing, just explaining.    Everybody Wants Some! versus, say, Black and Blue.  Panama versus, say, Poundcake.  The darkest Roth got was Fair Warning, like Sinner's Swing.

Diver Down - a pun, a diving term, but with sexual innuendo buried under the surface - versus, say, "F.U.C.K.", which is about as blunt as you can get, or "OU812" - Oh, You Ate One Too! - which isn't really innuendo, since there's no real straight or alternate meaning to it.  Bottom's Up - C'mo-mo-mo-mo-mon baby, bottom's up! versus, say, Amsterdam - wham, bam, oh Amsterdam!.  I'll try to find the interview, but in the wake of the first Hagar breakup, even Eddie noted the lack of subtlety in the Amsterdam lyrics.   I just find it to be a shade heavy handed, is all.   

EDIT: https://ultimateclassicrock.com/van-halen-amsterdam-song/

I don't get the distinction you are trying to make.

I just think there's a humorous, tongue-in-cheek aspect to the Roth lyrics, I think the Hagar lyrics are a bit more, direct and dirty, let's say.   That's pretty much it.

EDIT:  I do this by accident sometimes; I accidentally embed my response in the middle.

You mean Sammy's lyrics are more direct and dirty than, say, "reach down between my legs...ease the seat back...," for example?  Okay...  Again, I'm not seeing a significant distinction. 

[Stadler]

That's fine; I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but to me, that's vaudeville.  Schtick.  Dave being Dave, tongue in cheek.   Same with the "line on the back of the stocking", "look I'll pay you for it, WTF" stuff.   With Sammy, to me, it doesn't come off that way.  He's said in interviews that Black and Blue was a true experience, where they both ended up black and blue.  That's fine, I'm no prude, but that IS a different vibe.

[TAC]

That's fine; I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but to me, that's vaudeville.  Schtick.  Dave being Dave, tongue in cheek.   Same with the "line on the back of the stocking", "look I'll pay you for it, WTF" stuff.   With Sammy, to me, it doesn't come off that way.  He's said in interviews that Black and Blue was a true experience, where they both ended up black and blue.  That's fine, I'm no prude, but that IS a different vibe.

Bill, I haven't read every word uttered on this page, but I know exactly what you mean. Dave was an entertainer.

Honestly, lyrically, I don't think there's a ton of difference between the two eras when it comes to talking about sex, but Dave just presented it in a way that you could laugh it off.

[bosk1]

Whether Sammy was singing about actual experiences or not (Dave wasn't?), I still don't see any meaningful distinction.  But maybe that's the "benefit" of coming at this from the perspective that both were inappropriately far over the line.  #prettyproudprude

[KevShmev]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

[bosk1]

...that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

  It is?

[Trav86]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

“I don’t feel tardy..” has always been my favorite.

[cramx3]

Option 1, VH1 and 5150 is what makes it the winner

[jammindude]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

I never thought it was a masturbation pun. Combined with the line “teacher needs to see me after school” I thought he was insinuating that “homework” was banging his teacher.

[TAC]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

I never thought it was a masturbation pun. Combined with the line “teacher needs to see me after school” I thought he was insinuating that “homework” was banging his teacher.

Yeah, same here.

J-dude, for me and you it was clear. For Kev, it was clearly about masturbation. 

[KevShmev]

I think it could be interpreted either way.

[jammindude]

I think it could be interpreted either way.

….if you weren’t banging your teacher.

[TAC]

I think it could be interpreted either way.

….if you weren’t banging your teacher.

...and masturbating.

[Stadler]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

I never thought it was a masturbation pun. Combined with the line “teacher needs to see me after school” I thought he was insinuating that “homework” was banging his teacher.

Yeah, same here.

J-dude, for me and you it was clear. For Kev, it was clearly about masturbation. 

There's a joke in there somewhere! 

I'm with TAC and Jammin; he was making a party out of banging his teacher, and for me, that's what made Dave special. 

[Stadler]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

“I don’t feel tardy..” has always been my favorite.

Mine too. 

[Stadler]

Whether Sammy was singing about actual experiences or not (Dave wasn't?), I still don't see any meaningful distinction.  But maybe that's the "benefit" of coming at this from the perspective that both were inappropriately far over the line.  #prettyproudprude

That's not an unfair statement.  If you didn't find the humor in Dave's words, then there ISN'T much difference.

[cramx3]

"But then my homework was never quite like this" has to be one of the greatest VH lyrics ever (which is a pretty low bar to clear, to be honest).  Kids like me had no idea at the time that it was (IMO) a subtle masturbation pun.

I never thought it was a masturbation pun. Combined with the line “teacher needs to see me after school” I thought he was insinuating that “homework” was banging his teacher.

Yeah, same here.

J-dude, for me and you it was clear. For Kev, it was clearly about masturbation. 

There's a joke in there somewhere! 

I'm with TAC and Jammin; he was making a party out of banging his teacher, and for me, that's what made Dave special.

Add me in, I always thought the line meant he was banging the teacher.

[hefdaddy42]

EDIT:  On that image of the disc, that hand symbol that was often displayed by both fans and band members at VH shows, well before OU812 was released.  It has nothing to do with eating whatever you think they are talking about eating (certainly not what I think you're talking about eating).

Whether it was before, during and after, what, then, is it supposed to symbolize?  (Each half is I love you in sign language, isn't it?)

I think it's a stylized combination of V and H.  Or at least, that's the idea.  Something fun for the fans.

[WildRanger]

Voted for the second group.
VH 1 > II
Women and Children First < Fair Warning
Diver Down < 1984

Don't care for Hagar albums.