Author Topic: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Album in Food Warmer!  (Read 216077 times)

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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1050 on: August 25, 2018, 03:34:12 PM »
Those were examples of very recent studio sessions of both drummers. One stands out as fresh....one stands out as the 'same ol' same ol''

Ok, so you are judging them by some short videos on social media..

It's an 'old and repetitive' criticism of MP because it's an accurate one. Even the albums you mentioned do little to argue against that criticism.

Listen....like I said....I love to listen to MP drum. Similitude of a Dream was a freaking masterpiece IMO and MP's drumming was great in it. Neal does a fantastic job of writing and arranging that music to fit and suite MP's playing.

But you cannot have an honest listen to 'The Astonishing' and listen to the insane things Mangini does on that album then listen to SOAD and tell me that one drummer doesn't stand out against the other. It's less of a knock on MP than it is just an outright compliment to Mangini for always improving himself and keeping his 'chops' up to date and honed.

Being old or repetitive doesn't make something accurate.. The albums I mentioned... have you even listened to any of them?.. Because even if you randomly choose a single song in any of those albums (well, except you choose a ballad) you'll be listening to 5 or 6 different (and unique) fills in that song along.. Does he repeat some fills?.. Yes, he does, as 95% of drummers do.. But -and this right here is what really bothers me- why being unnecessarily cruel to someone that's just playing some music for you to enjoy?.. Even more, when we're talking about a very talented musician with outstanding playing skills?.. I assume we are not discussing here nor having into account his persona.. If we're not, then Idk what else can be said about this..

Again, we weren't discussing MM, but since you keep bringing him up I'll say that while enjoy his playing, regarding "being fresh", he has it way more easier than Portnoy, since he has only played in 3 DT albums so far (which is the territory you should prefer we stay in, otherwise MP would "win" by miles regarding 'same ol' aspects)..

I mean, if we're comparing them to each other, shouldn't we be comparing the current Mangini with the FII's Portnoy?.. Now that would only be fair..
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 03:41:35 PM by ToT-147 »
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Offline pcs90

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1051 on: August 25, 2018, 03:51:51 PM »
I honestly don't see how anyone can tell me, in all sincerity, that MP's playing is not repetitive. Basing this on full albums and songs, not small clips, it is easy to hear that he plays the same few fills over and over again. Yes, he has different combinations, but the majority of his fills are based on some form of rlkkrlkkrlkk (he has even admitted this several times including on at least one of his instructional DVD's.) So there's no need to get offended over it, the man himself admits it and he's also on record as saying he doesn't really practice. His drumming vocabulary never expands. You don't even need to be a drummer or musician to notice it either.
Now, MP is very consistent, and he knows how to entertain a crowd. But if we are only talking about the notes that he plays and nothing else, he's in the stone age compared to many drummers playing today especially if we look at other genres as well. Some absolutely amazing talent out there...

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1052 on: August 25, 2018, 04:33:38 PM »
I'm not telling you nor anyone anything.. I'm just speaking myself; if you're stubborn enough to whether not get what I'm saying or not interested in trying to get it, then that's ok for me..

For you, he is only a "very consistent" drummer and a crowd entertainer guy, but not an amazingly talented guy.. Ok, that's fine.. Well, for me, the thing I admire more about him is precisely his amazing talent.. He's the first drummer I have listened to doing all those diverse and unpredictable but genius stuff with "mere" drums in any band at all... and now you're trying to convince me that he is repetitive?.. I don't care even if he himself has said that (which I doubt).. You don't realize I'm talking about a little of both respect to the musician and understanding of the relativity about this matter.. Meaning: of course if you compare Portnoy to some today's drummers these would be seen as more diverse or not repetitive than him.. But, then again, why comparing a 30+ career years drummer to one that's barely start playing or that has several years less than him with the drumsticks?.. But even if there are other drummers with more variety in their playing, I wouldn't care, because that doesn't take away what he's done (and particularly the inspiration he's given me and many other ppl)..

To put it in other words, you are confusing virtuosity with talent, and thus trying to use that as an argument to say how not talented he is, which is ridiculous in the case of someone just as virtuous as he is.
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Offline RMGadelha

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1053 on: August 25, 2018, 04:47:51 PM »
Boy, oh boy! What a thread derail.

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1054 on: August 25, 2018, 04:49:46 PM »
Boy, oh boy! What a thread derail.

Eh, Gary has been deraling threads for a very long time, and he just keeps using the same few tactics. Everything is generally a variation of kick kick portnoy when he's down. Personally? I'm always entertained by how Gary derails threads, he's just an amazing showman about it. Dude has a lot of personality in his derailing. I know the forum has some new members that derail threads in much more....complicated ways, but I'm just not as into that.
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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1055 on: August 25, 2018, 04:56:13 PM »
Adami, seriously


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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1056 on: August 25, 2018, 05:09:27 PM »
Blame Portnoy for this "thread derail".. He is responsible..

Nah, we all know it was the MP haters again...
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Offline Peter Mc

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1057 on: August 25, 2018, 05:13:18 PM »
They’re both amazing drummers, let’s just leave it at that. The fact is that the band we all love would not exist without Mike Portnoy’s efforts in those early years in particular so, despite the way he acts at times, he deserves a little more love on here.

That being said, I’ve enjoyed what Mangini has done so far and am very much looking forward to hearing what he does on the new record as he seems to have had a big input, even writing lyrics (which usually means vocal melodies as well) and they seem focused on getting a good drum sound this time around. Not that I’ve been too unhappy with his sound previously.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1058 on: August 25, 2018, 05:14:39 PM »
Actually, his Instagram post in classic Portnoy.  DT has done a great job with getting fans excited for their next album with all of their social media updates, and with one sentence on JP's page, he diverted the attention from that to himself and to his comment.  And he has been around long enough to where he knew it would happen. I think he does this stuff on purpose. And then he can play the "I was just being funny, it's not my fault if fans started talking about it" card.  It's like cutting a huge chili-driven fart in the middle of a crowded room at a party and then saying, "It's not my fault people noticed the smell."

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1059 on: August 25, 2018, 05:27:57 PM »
Oh that's it Adami  :curtains:


have you even listened to any of them?..

 :lol   I first heard DT in the summer of 1992 when PMU hit and quickly ran out and bought the cassette. My friends and I were utterly blown away, and I was IMMEDIATELY enthralled by MP. His playing is/was electric (I don't think I've ever said anything other than that on this forum) and I was transfixed by the odd time changes and the amount of notes he could hit. When I saw them the first time at the American Theater in St. Louis on
5/23/1993.....I couldn't take my eyes off of MP. Watching him drum then and even today is such an impressive feat. And, I've listened to EVERY one of MP's projects...all of them. I love to hear the guy play drums. And, that's also why I'm fairly confident in the accuracy of that comment.

I'm not saying he 'sucks' at playing drums. Show me where I've ever said that? My initial comment was in response to these comments that DarkLord posted from the MP fanboys out there digging at JP on JP's own Instagram feed:

"Yeah...MP...the band is not the same without you"
"DT lost its soul with you!"

My point in making the semi-teasing comment about the 'six fills' that MP has is that we 'really' (<<<That's sarcasm FYI) missed out on having (3) more albums of MP mailing it in with his same 'bag of tricks'. Doesn't mean MP's bag of tricks aren't filled with some incredible things....but they are the 'same ol same ol' But as I continued to mention.....that same ol same ol produced a pretty killer product in SOAD so whatever.

I brought up MM for two reasons: one, the comments trashing JP and DT seem to suggest that DT has sucked since MP left and that's not the case......and (B).....the juxtaposition between MP and MM is a fascinating one to me. On one hand you have a guy who is completely content and comfortable riding his natural talent off into the sunset with no qualms or concern about keeping it sharp or improving them at all and the other hand you have a guy who is constantly seeking and searching and practicing to get better and better.

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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1060 on: August 25, 2018, 05:43:55 PM »
Why did MP have to post that?

As one of the more outsppken MM fanboys in this forum, I am really disappointed with MP's post. MM is finaly getting the opportunity to showcase what he could do with him fully integrated in the writing process. And then MP does a joke of him coming back, triggering again his legion of diehards clamoring for him to return.

I am not listening to an MP future project again. I like how he plays, but he asks too much for the spotlight even to the detriment of others. So I won't give him what he craves.

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1061 on: August 25, 2018, 06:29:31 PM »
@gmillerdrake Ok, yeah, I did get why you brought Mangini to the discussion, although I do not share the need to do it.. I mean, yeah, is very obvious that someone in a DT forum would always be comparing MP with MM if we start talking about the former... Now, why even bother to do that everytime, and even more in a new DT album thread?..

About my question, that was sarcasm fyi.. From your second post I assumed -and right- that you were at least an old DT fan and that until some point you liked Portnoy's style; Idk why exactly, maybe for the way you think or write?.. Also, I never said that you said "he 'sucks' at playing drums".. Show me where *I* have ever said that.. ;)

But anyways, I'll now ask you a real question: why are you throwing out all of this here, when judging by what you're saying you were responding to the instagram MP fanboys?.. No one here said what they said over there.. That's the (other) part I don't get..

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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1062 on: August 25, 2018, 06:51:54 PM »
It's because you called his claim that MP has become repetitive as bullshit.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 07:02:50 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1063 on: August 25, 2018, 08:12:58 PM »
Nope, that was after his comment, right?...
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1064 on: August 25, 2018, 09:45:56 PM »
Yes, but are you asking him why he should respond to MP's comment on JP's instagram that derailed DT's so far positive buildup for their new album?

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1065 on: August 25, 2018, 09:52:55 PM »
Exactly..
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1066 on: August 25, 2018, 10:42:59 PM »
Blame Portnoy for this "thread derail".. He is responsible..

He’s responsible after all... when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help. He wants his hand to be there.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline pcs90

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1067 on: August 25, 2018, 10:45:36 PM »
I'm not telling you nor anyone anything.. I'm just speaking myself; if you're stubborn enough to whether not get what I'm saying or not interested in trying to get it, then that's ok for me..
We don't have to agree. I just don't get how people don't hear what I and others are hearing. It's not subtle. His drumming is so easy to predict nowadays. Back in the 90s through SDOIT he seemed to put more thought into his parts, and after that album it seemed, to me, that he lost some of the "spark," you could say. I'm not basing my comments on him as a person, or his other endeavors in DT and elsewhere. It's all based on his playing.

I don't care even if he himself has said that (which I doubt)..
Liquid Drum Theater DVD...go watch it for yourself if you don't believe me...

But, then again, why comparing a 30+ career years drummer to one that's barely start playing or that has several years less than him with the drumsticks?..
I'm not comparing him to people who have "barely started playing..." I'm comparing him to drummers who I think are more creative, musical, and dynamic. No matter what I base this on, playing-wise, MP gets beat by a bunch of other drummers for me. Groove, chops, independence, control of dynamics, overall musicality, speed, whatever you want your criteria to be...MP is just nowhere near the top. But to go along with what you say, if I was comparing MP to people who have barely started playing, and those people are already ahead of his playing ability, then they'd clearly be more talented playing-wise. So either way that falls flat.

To put it in other words, you are confusing virtuosity with talent, and thus trying to use that as an argument to say how not talented he is, which is ridiculous in the case of someone just as virtuous as he is.
No, I'm looking at the whole picture as it relates to playing, as stated above. For example, some drummers out there have amazing speed, but when it's time for them to chill out and play a simple laid back groove, they can't...or it takes a lot of effort for them to make it feel good. I enjoy drummers who are diverse and unpredictable. I don't want to listen to a knew album and already have a basic idea of what MP's going to do before he even does it. That's what happened with SoA, for example. Where's the fun in that?

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1068 on: August 25, 2018, 10:50:02 PM »
But anyways, I'll now ask you a real question: why are you throwing out all of this here, when judging by what you're saying you were responding to the instagram MP fanboys?.. No one here said what they said over there.. That's the (other) part I don't get..

But it WAS mentioned......which prompted my dig at MP

Yeah, I managed to see it. Mixed feelings. I get MP's posture on posting a ""friendly"" comment, but it's just nuts the way some people reacted in JP's post.

"Yeah...MP...the band is not the same without you"
"DT lost its soul with you!"

That cannot be healthy in any way to JP or MP, I think. Oh well, I guess he knows his social media.



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Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1069 on: August 25, 2018, 10:51:10 PM »
Blame Portnoy for this "thread derail".. He is responsible..

He’s responsible after all... when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help. He wants his hand to be there.

 :lol

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1070 on: August 25, 2018, 11:11:55 PM »
Actually, his Instagram post in classic Portnoy.  DT has done a great job with getting fans excited for their next album with all of their social media updates, and with one sentence on JP's page, he diverted the attention from that to himself and to his comment.  And he has been around long enough to where he knew it would happen. I think he does this stuff on purpose. And then he can play the "I was just being funny, it's not my fault if fans started talking about it" card.  It's like cutting a huge chili-driven fart in the middle of a crowded room at a party and then saying, "It's not my fault people noticed the smell."

Yep.  Absolutely his standard m.o.  Sad.

Offline NoseofNicko

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1071 on: August 25, 2018, 11:25:48 PM »
"Back to DT!!!! Oh wait.... 😄"

I guess I might be mentally disabled or something since I have no idea what that means.

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1072 on: August 25, 2018, 11:32:27 PM »
"Back to DT!!!! Oh wait.... 😄"

I guess I might be mentally disabled or something since I have no idea what that means.

I thought the same thing. I still don't get it. Then realized the bigger point people like KevShmev are making is that we have spent the last two pages of this thread talking about MP instead of DT's progress on their forthcoming album.
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1073 on: August 25, 2018, 11:41:19 PM »
@gzarruk Exactly.. :lol

@gmillerdrake Yes, it was mentioned here, but no one here said that, so what you did is poitnless... except your goal was to tease people on this thread who were only reading news and opinions about the new album.. See: one doesn't have to be a MP "fanboy", "troll" or whatever to don't agree with your mocking comments..

@pcs90 What I'm saying is that you don't understand my opinion; I'm not complaining about we don't agree because that's obvious and I really don't care for that.. Opinion would be: I don't find his drumming to be "predictable"; there are parts (mostly since 2008) when I feel that he might be doing something in a certain way and he kind of does it although a little different, but they're very insignificant if we're considering his playing as a whole; I agree that his techniques haven't evolve much in the past 10 years (I do find a lot of improvment and fresh/new stuff in ToT, 8V and SC)... but then again, I don't know any drummer that I like as I like MP's style that has evolve over the years either, so...

And did Portnoy said he became repetitive since ToT?.. Wow.. I don't own that DVD, but surely wouldn't watch it if I did only to be sure he said that.. Still, if I'd had the man himself telling me that in my face I'd keep thinking the same: his repetitiveness is only relative, and I do prefer his so predictable fills and whole drumming style over any other's virtuosist drummer out there (and I do know lots of them btw)... About younger drummers, what you're saying makes no sense at all; of course is easier for them to be better regarding variety, because they're just beginning their careers, so they have a world of combinations yet to make... MP and drummers of his age, simply don't, neither have they the obligation to do so..

I hope my posture is clear now.. Ok, moving on..
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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1074 on: August 25, 2018, 11:42:09 PM »
I think, as a guy that doesn't know or care about MP's instagram post and want to see more DT's updates in this thread, I'm just going to say the following plain and simple.  WHY DOES THIS MATTER AT ALL?

Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1075 on: August 25, 2018, 11:51:16 PM »
If you don't care, then simply don't read the discussion.. Also, as much as you want DT14-related updates, and I guess that we all here in this thread want that, if there aren't, then there aren't..

In case any of you missed it, this vid is the latest we got about the album: https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/532840363804427/
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Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1076 on: August 25, 2018, 11:54:28 PM »
I was really hoping for another snippet on the latest video. Oh well.. It was nice to see JM more animated and talkative...well, as talkative as he can get.
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Offline Sebastián Pratesi

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1077 on: August 26, 2018, 12:54:19 AM »
I was really hoping for another snippet on the latest video. Oh well.. It was nice to see JM more animated and talkative...well, as talkative as he can get.
Indeed! I like it that JM is so happy with the album. :) And the multiple lyricists aspect.  :)

And this: https://www.facebook.com/jordanrudessofficial/videos/314881035952672. :)

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1078 on: August 26, 2018, 02:49:35 AM »
"Back to DT!!!! Oh wait.... 😄"

I guess I might be mentally disabled or something since I have no idea what that means.

Same here.  Is he making a joke that he is rejoining the band?  Was he joking that was finishing guitars for something else and now needed to get back working on DT stuff? 

Whatever it was, it was a pretty awkward thing to do. 

Offline fadetoblackdude7

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1079 on: August 26, 2018, 02:54:28 AM »
"Back to DT!!!! Oh wait.... 😄"

I guess I might be mentally disabled or something since I have no idea what that means.

Same here.  Is he making a joke that he is rejoining the band?  Was he joking that was finishing guitars for something else and now needed to get back working on DT stuff? 

Whatever it was, it was a pretty awkward thing to do.

I think what he was getting at was that there shouldn’t (in his opinion) be a DT without him, but in reality there is.

Offline Bertielee

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1080 on: August 26, 2018, 03:26:43 AM »
I was really hoping for another snippet on the latest video. Oh well.. It was nice to see JM more animated and talkative...well, as talkative as he can get.
Indeed! I like it that JM is so happy with the album. :) And the multiple lyricists aspect.  :)

And this: https://www.facebook.com/jordanrudessofficial/videos/314881035952672. :)

That video is fantastic! We all know by now JLB's and JM's capacities as lyricists but I'm very intrigued at what MM will bring to the table.

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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1081 on: August 26, 2018, 03:37:51 AM »
My guess would be that his lyrics will be intelligent (because he just is), about mathematics, logic or brains or something
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Offline Bertielee

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1082 on: August 26, 2018, 03:40:21 AM »
My guess would be that his lyrics will be intelligent (because he just is), about mathematics, logic or brains or something

I know you said that in jest, but I think the other way round. For me, it will be very emotional, that is being there where no one is expecting him.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1083 on: August 26, 2018, 03:51:10 AM »
"Back to DT!!!! Oh wait.... 😄"

I guess I might be mentally disabled or something since I have no idea what that means.

Same here.  Is he making a joke that he is rejoining the band?  Was he joking that was finishing guitars for something else and now needed to get back working on DT stuff? 

Whatever it was, it was a pretty awkward thing to do.

Whatever it was, it is the usual make this thing about me post. Everybody's getting excited about thr new album with contributions from all, especially MM, but no, he just had to make a post that would call attention to himself.

I think, as a guy that doesn't know or care about MP's instagram post and want to see more DT's updates in this thread, I'm just going to say the following plain and simple.  WHY DOES THIS MATTER AT ALL?

For me, it matters because MP posted not on his Instagram but on JP's Instagram where there is an album update. Why did he post that in the update of a band that already moved on from him?

I'm not telling you nor anyone anything.. I'm just speaking myself; if you're stubborn enough to whether not get what I'm saying or not interested in trying to get it, then that's ok for me..
We don't have to agree. I just don't get how people don't hear what I and others are hearing. It's not subtle. His drumming is so easy to predict nowadays. Back in the 90s through SDOIT he seemed to put more thought into his parts, and after that album it seemed, to me, that he lost some of the "spark," you could say. I'm not basing my comments on him as a person, or his other endeavors in DT and elsewhere. It's all based on his playing.

Based on how I hear and play it, his entire playing vocabulary is in Metropolis Pt. 1, The Mirror, Peruvian Skies, Trial of Tears, and The Glass Prison. Study all the techniques in those songs and you pretty much can feel the familiarity in the other songs. It's not bad, that is already an amazing drum vocabulary and there are so many variations MP did, but it is also true that the vocabulary never expanded much after SDOIT.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2018, 03:59:18 AM by erwinrafael »

Offline Mladen

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Re: Dream Theater going into the studio in 2 weeks
« Reply #1084 on: August 26, 2018, 03:53:51 AM »
If you don't care, then simply don't read the discussion.. Also, as much as you want DT14-related updates, and I guess that we all here in this thread want that, if there aren't, then there aren't..

In case any of you missed it, this vid is the latest we got about the album: https://www.facebook.com/dreamtheater/videos/532840363804427/
I saw this two days ago at work, cranked the volume all the way up and STILL had trouble hearing JM.  :lol