Author Topic: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Album in Food Warmer!  (Read 108863 times)

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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1785 on: October 11, 2018, 10:56:25 AM »
Couldn't that be a honest question?

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1786 on: October 11, 2018, 10:57:29 AM »
Couldn't that be a honest question?

I think the answer was just a bit odd. Like if the person doesn't know what a half-diminished chord is, I doubt they'll know what a mn7 5b chord is.

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Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1787 on: October 11, 2018, 11:00:13 AM »
Got it, thanks.

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1788 on: October 11, 2018, 11:03:54 AM »
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1789 on: October 11, 2018, 11:06:45 AM »
I don't have a honourable way out of this, do I?   :lol

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1790 on: October 11, 2018, 11:29:34 AM »
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1791 on: October 11, 2018, 11:54:34 AM »
I'm at a point now where I'll gratefully accept everything they do. (Mike M is one reason but also their general attitude post-Portnoy) I'm sure I'll love it. Bring it on.

This is how I feel since DT12.. Won't actually care if they do only one song I like.. There's so much music they've already done that's excellent... but, having said that, I think there's much more excellence to come..

I wonder who has written the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, maybe James?

I would be surprise if any vocal melody at all not written by JP comes from anyone but JP himself and/or JR..

James might change some lines to adjust what's necessary/more comfortable for him, but I think every DT song's vocal melodies has been created by JP, the keyboardist on duty and (unfortunately :lol) MP..

But I could be wrong..
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1792 on: October 11, 2018, 12:19:41 PM »
James has come up with a lot of vocal melodies.  But I cannot say how much he has worked on vocal melodies for JM lyrics.  No idea there.
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1793 on: October 11, 2018, 12:33:59 PM »
Ok, then I was wrong..

Good to hear that he came up with vocal melodies, at least in lyrics penned by him.. Also, I assume these vocal melodies he created are all from the ballads (Anna Lee, Vacant and Far From Heaven)... I'd be really surprised hearing that, e.g., Blind Faith's vocal melodies have been composed by JLB..

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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1794 on: October 11, 2018, 12:36:12 PM »
I wonder who has written the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, maybe James?
I would be surprise if any vocal melody at all not written by JP comes from anyone but JP himself and/or JR..

James might change some lines to adjust what's necessary/more comfortable for him, but I think every DT song's vocal melodies has been created by JP, the keyboardist on duty and (unfortunately :lol) MP..
The rule that they always had was whoever wrote the lyrics was responsible for writing the vocal melodies. The only exception to that rule was JM, who had always submitted his lyrics in poem form and someone else had to help reformat them into lyric form. Presumably whoever assisted JM in doing so was the one who also wrote the vocal melodies. I'd imagine that it was likely JP who did so, but I could imagine MP doing it too.

As for who wrote the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, unless the rules have changed, I would imagine it would be MM. Given that the man is working on his own solo album, it stands to reason he has a sense of melody and could come up with something on his own.
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1795 on: October 11, 2018, 12:37:15 PM »
I hope they've used more half-diminished chords!   :metal :metal :metal

What is a half-diminished chord?

Indiscipline provided the technical answer.  The non-technical answer is that it's a sort of evil/spooky sounding chord (the chord that is hit when the villain walks on screen), and I was making a cheeky reference to a discussion that occurs on the band commentary track on the LSFNY DVD.  Jesus Jones doesn't use half-diminished chords, but Dream Theater does!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1796 on: October 11, 2018, 12:50:55 PM »
I wonder who has written the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, maybe James?
I would be surprise if any vocal melody at all not written by JP comes from anyone but JP himself and/or JR..

James might change some lines to adjust what's necessary/more comfortable for him, but I think every DT song's vocal melodies has been created by JP, the keyboardist on duty and (unfortunately :lol) MP..
The rule that they always had was whoever wrote the lyrics was responsible for writing the vocal melodies. The only exception to that rule was JM, who had always submitted his lyrics in poem form and someone else had to help reformat them into lyric form. Presumably whoever assisted JM in doing so was the one who also wrote the vocal melodies. I'd imagine that it was likely JP who did so, but I could imagine MP doing it too.

As for who wrote the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, unless the rules have changed, I would imagine it would be MM. Given that the man is working on his own solo album, it stands to reason he has a sense of melody and could come up with something on his own.

Regarding the "rule," here's my two cents:  From the way the band, and mainly Mike Portnoy, discussed it, it seemed like there was a bit of frustration on behalf of more than just MP over having to come up with a vocal melody and fit JM's lyrics into it, but that it was mainly MP's frustration.  And it seemed like the "rule" was primarily driven by him.  That said, as I have said in the past, I don't get the sense that it was meant in any way to be punitive or to discourage JM from writing.  It was just an effort to try to make it easier on the rest of the band.  And along with that, I also felt that JP viewed it as less than a "rule" than a "general guideline."  The above is just my somewhat-educated guess and feelings based on what was said, and I could be wrong.  But if that is generally correct, then I would suspect that with MP no longer in the band, the "rule" has been loosened up considerably. 

Applying the above to MM lyrics, again if my assumptions are somewhat correct, I would not necessarily conclude that he had to write all vocal melodies for his lyrics himself.  That said, I am sure he is entirely capable.  And I'm not advocating a position that he either did or did not--just saying that I would not necessarily assume that one end of the spectrum or the other has to be 100% true.  We just don't know.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1797 on: October 11, 2018, 01:21:21 PM »
Regarding the "rule," here's my two cents:  From the way the band, and mainly Mike Portnoy, discussed it, it seemed like there was a bit of frustration on behalf of more than just MP over having to come up with a vocal melody and fit JM's lyrics into it, but that it was mainly MP's frustration.  And it seemed like the "rule" was primarily driven by him.
While it is true that MP was the most open about discussing the matter, I wouldn't rule out JP being equally or perhaps even more frustrated (even if he would mask that from the public view) being that he's the one who cares far more about lyric writing than MP ever did. The reality is, just like the rest of what you're saying, is that we don't know, and I don't think it's entirely fair to imply that most of the blame lay at MP's feet.
 
 
That said, as I have said in the past, I don't get the sense that it was meant in any way to be punitive or to discourage JM from writing.  It was just an effort to try to make it easier on the rest of the band.
Absolutely. In fact numerous times MP tried to encourage JM to write lyrics again while he was in the band.
 
 
And along with that, I also felt that JP viewed it as less than a "rule" than a "general guideline."  The above is just my somewhat-educated guess and feelings based on what was said, and I could be wrong.  But if that is generally correct, then I would suspect that with MP no longer in the band, the "rule" has been loosened up considerably. 
That is quite possible as a lot changed once MP left the band. But until officially stated otherwise, it's equally logical that they'd continue using the same basic rule that they had previously. Given that JP already writes the bulk of the lyrics, especially with MP gone now, it's easy to imagine what little lyric writing he doesn't do he probably leaves up to the others to write the vocal melodies.
 
 
Applying the above to MM lyrics, again if my assumptions are somewhat correct, I would not necessarily conclude that he had to write all vocal melodies for his lyrics himself.  That said, I am sure he is entirely capable.  And I'm not advocating a position that he either did or did not--just saying that I would not necessarily assume that one end of the spectrum or the other has to be 100% true.  We just don't know.
What you're saying is quite possible - I never meant what I posted to be taken as a hard definitive fact. And given that this is the first album MM's writing lyrics for, it wouldn't be surprising if JP has at least some involvement in the vocal melodies until he's confident in MM's ability to do so on his own.

Definitely an interesting discussion, and something worth asking next time someone does an interview with one of the band members!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1798 on: October 11, 2018, 01:31:49 PM »
Regarding the "rule," here's my two cents:  From the way the band, and mainly Mike Portnoy, discussed it, it seemed like there was a bit of frustration on behalf of more than just MP over having to come up with a vocal melody and fit JM's lyrics into it, but that it was mainly MP's frustration.  And it seemed like the "rule" was primarily driven by him.
While it is true that MP was the most open about discussing the matter, I wouldn't rule out JP being equally or perhaps even more frustrated (even if he would mask that from the public view) being that he's the one who cares far more about lyric writing than MP ever did. The reality is, just like the rest of what you're saying, is that we don't know, and I don't think it's entirely fair to imply that most of the blame lay at MP's feet.

But my whole point about that, and as I tried to say in the next part that you quoted, is that I don't view it as a "blame" issue.  My sense is (and, again, I could be totally mistaken) that MP was the biggest proponent of the "rule."  But even if true, I don't see it as anything blameworthy.  It's just how they decided to function.  I think it is just one more of those things that Mike disclosed that fans took and ran with and blew a bit out of proportion into something it probably was never intended to be.  I've tried to be fair and say that my take on the rule is somewhat speculative.  But even if it turns out that it is 100% accurate, it isn't something to "blame" Mike or anybody else for. 

Definitely an interesting discussion, and something worth asking next time someone does an interview with one of the band members!

For sure.  As I was typing my earlier response, I was already mentally adding it to my list of things I want to talk to them about at some point in the future.
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1799 on: October 11, 2018, 01:38:22 PM »
Just out of curiousity, generally how long does it take to mix and master albums as complex as those Dream Theater produce?

And no, I'm not getting impatient waiting on DT14. It arrives precisely when it means to.  :lol
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1800 on: October 11, 2018, 09:40:30 PM »
I wonder who has written the vocal melodies for MM's lyrics, maybe James?
I would be surprise if any vocal melody at all not written by JP comes from anyone but JP himself and/or JR..

James might change some lines to adjust what's necessary/more comfortable for him, but I think every DT song's vocal melodies has been created by JP, the keyboardist on duty and MP..
The rule that they always had was whoever wrote the lyrics was responsible for writing the vocal melodies.

Yeah, I totally forgot about that.. But, there's also another rule that JP once said, that 99% of the times the music comes first, and then the lyrics... So, given the fact that LaBrie does not contribute in the musical composition, what I wonder is how exactly does he write his lyrics and vocal melodies.. My guess remains the same (lol), that vocal melodies of songs penned by James are at least very guided by JP and/or JR.. Because there's something you're both missing (at least in your recents posts), and that is that there's several ways of creating the pair vocal melodies/lyrics, even if we consider the "99%" rule:

          -you can write the lyric, then add to it some form of melody and only then pick the song to insert it;
          -you can write the lyric already knowing in which song it will fit, thus the melody becomes somehow 'easier' to make;
          -you can write a melody first, then write the lyric and then look for a song for it;
          -you can write the melody and then the lyric already knowing the song for it;
          -you can write a vocal melody and, based on this create, or begin to create, the whole song (this still fits the "99%" rule because the lyric itself would come at the end anyway)
-etc

So, what I'm saying is that I don't see James working in any of the last three ways.. For me, even the first option would be a total surprise..

Definitely an interesting discussion, and something worth asking next time someone does an interview with one of the band members!

For sure.  As I was typing my earlier response, I was already mentally adding it to my list of things I want to talk to them about at some point in the future.

Absolutely!.. That would be something great to know about, and I guess they would find the question to be fresh and interesting too.. I personally like when someone asks me how do we compose songs and things like that.. It's a great question, and very useful to fans that are also musicians..
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 11:27:21 PM by ToT-147 »
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1801 on: October 11, 2018, 10:27:31 PM »
But, there's also another rule that JP once said, that 99% of the times the music comes first, and then the lyrics... So, given the fact that LaBrie does not contribute in the musical composition, what I wonder is how exactly does he write his lyrics and vocal melodies.. My guess remains the same (lol), that vocal melodies of songs penned by James are at least very guided by JP and/or JR.. Because there's something you're both missing (at least in your recents posts), and that is that there's several ways of creating the pair vocal melodies/lyrics, even if we consider the "99%" rule:

          -you can write the lyric as a poem, then add to it some form of melody and only then pick the song to insert it;
          -you can write the poem already knowing in which song it will fit, thus the melody becomes somehow 'easier' to make;
          -you can write a melody first, then write the lyric and then look for a song for it;
          -you can write the melody and then the lyric already knowing the song for it;
          -you can write a vocal melody and, based on this create, or begin to create, the whole song (this still fits the "99%" rule because the lyric itself would come at the end anyway)
-etc

So, what I'm saying is that I don't see James working in any of the last three ways.. For me, even the first option would be a total surprise..
I could be wrong on this, but actually I imagine that option #4 is probably closest to the way it works. Not sure exactly how they go about determining who will write lyrics for a specific song, but I've always been of the opinion that each band member is given certain songs to write lyrics for ahead of time. I think it would be pretty difficult to write lyrics without having an intended home for them (unless you had an arrangement like Rush did).

And JM is the only one that was ever said to write lyrics in poem form. JL could do so too, and then reformat them into lyrics, but I just don't see that happening.
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1802 on: October 11, 2018, 11:26:44 PM »
And JM is the only one that was ever said to write lyrics in poem form. JL could do so too, and then reformat them into lyrics, but I just don't see that happening.

Yeah, I don't know why I wrote "poem" in there.. (I was referring to the cases were the lyrics are written without any melody.. Ok, fixed..)
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1803 on: October 12, 2018, 01:08:58 AM »
But, there's also another rule that JP once said, that 99% of the times the music comes first, and then the lyrics... So, given the fact that LaBrie does not contribute in the musical composition, what I wonder is how exactly does he write his lyrics and vocal melodies.. My guess remains the same (lol), that vocal melodies of songs penned by James are at least very guided by JP and/or JR.. Because there's something you're both missing (at least in your recents posts), and that is that there's several ways of creating the pair vocal melodies/lyrics, even if we consider the "99%" rule:

          -you can write the lyric as a poem, then add to it some form of melody and only then pick the song to insert it;
          -you can write the poem already knowing in which song it will fit, thus the melody becomes somehow 'easier' to make;
          -you can write a melody first, then write the lyric and then look for a song for it;
          -you can write the melody and then the lyric already knowing the song for it;
          -you can write a vocal melody and, based on this create, or begin to create, the whole song (this still fits the "99%" rule because the lyric itself would come at the end anyway)
-etc

So, what I'm saying is that I don't see James working in any of the last three ways.. For me, even the first option would be a total surprise..
I could be wrong on this, but actually I imagine that option #4 is probably closest to the way it works. Not sure exactly how they go about determining who will write lyrics for a specific song, but I've always been of the opinion that each band member is given certain songs to write lyrics for ahead of time. I think it would be pretty difficult to write lyrics without having an intended home for them (unless you had an arrangement like Rush did).

And JM is the only one that was ever said to write lyrics in poem form. JL could do so too, and then reformat them into lyrics, but I just don't see that happening.

I think the way these things work is probably that during the writing process of the music a musician will say something like:  'I'm getting a certain vibe off of this, I think I might be able to come up with some lyrics for this'. Then he'll go away and write the lyric and the rest will determine if it works with the song. Seems to be the most organic way to go about this.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1804 on: October 12, 2018, 01:59:35 AM »
^ I think you're onto something there because in the case of JM, all the songs that he wrote lyrics for are almost exactly those with the best bass playing in the DT catalogue.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1805 on: October 12, 2018, 08:05:38 AM »
Best is subjective, but IMHO these are the ones with very distinct bass lines.

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1806 on: October 12, 2018, 10:27:15 AM »
I think the way these things work is probably that during the writing process of the music a musician will say something like:  'I'm getting a certain vibe off of this, I think I might be able to come up with some lyrics for this'. Then he'll go away and write the lyric and the rest will determine if it works with the song. Seems to be the most organic way to go about this.

Yeah, I'd assume they work that way too.. However, we weren't talking about how they come up with the content of a lyric, but about when in the lyric-writing process they come up with the vocal melodies for the lyric..

FWIW, the options raised above are not random ideas that I came up with yesterday, but the different ways we've been working with my band.. With DT, though, I have no idea how it is, and who does which task within the certain way, although I have my guesses, as I described before..
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1807 on: October 12, 2018, 12:46:15 PM »
Anyway, we just learnt today Avantasia's tracklist AND cover artwork, the album is being released in the beginning of February, just like DT14, day more or day less.

On one hand, it's apples and oranges - different band, different label etc - , but on the other hand, the general promotion machine has the same way to work, so it is too far fetched to assume that, if a band that releases an album on the 1st of February announced today the details, DT who are due for end of January / beginning of February could be not weeks, but days away from a major announcement?
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1808 on: October 12, 2018, 01:28:19 PM »
Anyway, we just learnt today Avantasia's tracklist AND cover artwork, the album is being released in the beginning of February, just like DT14, day more or day less.

On one hand, it's apples and oranges - different band, different label etc - , but on the other hand, the general promotion machine has the same way to work, so it is too far fetched to assume that, if a band that releases an album on the 1st of February announced today the details, DT who are due for end of January / beginning of February could be not weeks, but days away from a major announcement?

I really hope you’re right and we get info very soon :metal
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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1809 on: October 12, 2018, 01:30:28 PM »
In 2015, cover artwork and tour dates were published on November 2nd, and a complete tracklist after November 20th

Offline bosk1

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1810 on: October 12, 2018, 01:38:18 PM »
They are working out some necessary logistics right now.  An announcement should be forthcoming once they get that worked out. 
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Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1811 on: October 12, 2018, 01:51:39 PM »
They should call FedEx for that then (no just joking)

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1812 on: October 12, 2018, 02:03:43 PM »
^ I think you're onto something there because in the case of JM, all the songs that he wrote lyrics for are almost exactly those with the best bass playing in the DT catalogue.

I love that we have metric system and all but I really hate how we spell words:  centre, litre, colour, catalogue, programme, dialogue, metre, theatre, etc.  Squiggly red lines everywhere (actually, "dialogue" doesn't have one for some reason but "catalogue" does) and mocking Dream Theatre fans (meh, that one is kind of fun)... but, I digress.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1813 on: October 12, 2018, 02:24:57 PM »
They are working out some necessary logistics right now.  An announcement should be forthcoming once they get that worked out.

“But I already put out my press release” :biggrin:
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1814 on: October 12, 2018, 03:00:32 PM »
They are working out some necessary logistics right now.  An announcement should be forthcoming once they get that worked out.

:soon:
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Max Kuehnau

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1815 on: October 12, 2018, 03:07:23 PM »
What do Roadrunner have to do with this?

Online TAC

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1816 on: October 12, 2018, 03:14:27 PM »
It was like following a treasure hunt without the clues.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Orbert

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1817 on: October 12, 2018, 03:41:42 PM »
What do Roadrunner have to do with this?
That's a DTF inside joke of sort.  Quote the post to see what the secret code is.

Offline Another_Won

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1818 on: October 12, 2018, 04:58:47 PM »
What do Roadrunner have to do with this?
That's a DTF inside joke of sort.  Quote the post to see what the secret code is.
I forgot about that  :lol What release were we waiting on?

Offline TheLordOfTheStrings

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Re: Dream Theater Finishes Smoking Barbecue!! - Recording Done!
« Reply #1819 on: October 12, 2018, 07:41:32 PM »
What do Roadrunner have to do with this?
That's a DTF inside joke of sort.  Quote the post to see what the secret code is.
I forgot about that  :lol What release were we waiting on?
Pretty sure it was DT12