Author Topic: What if MP and Derek both came back?  (Read 2045 times)

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Offline Herrick

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #70 on: May 31, 2018, 02:45:34 PM »
If JP got Derek involved to any real extent then I think he'd soon be gathering some singers to audition  :)
That applies more to MP than DS, but it's a very real consideration.

And the reason I'd love to see it happen. Indirectly you'd be improving 3 spots and it'd make the band interesting again. While I really do like JR and MM, I've made no bones about preferring the organic playing of Sherinian and the energy of Portnoy, nor my general dislike of JLB.

I wouldn't want this to happen but if it did, I'd be very fucking interested to hear what they come up with.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #71 on: May 31, 2018, 03:23:12 PM »
If they could all just get along (something I really doubt at this point), I'd rather see something like Spock's Beard did for their 20th anniversary, where all (or almost all) the past and current members recorded a big epic for their compilation album. A DT version of that would be very cool, but I don't think we'll ever see anything like that.

BTW, something that hasn't been talked here, though, is that whether or not MP and DS would want to come back. I'm pretty sure Derek wouldn't and I think Mike would, but just because he still feels like it's his place and his band ("his baby") and would probably do it "for the fans" as well. However, I don't think he'd ever be comfortable with the new dynamic in DT, as he was used to call most of the shots on things like the setlists, production, etc.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline KevShmev

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #72 on: May 31, 2018, 07:36:09 PM »
It would be a tough pill to swallow, but I think Portnoy would return to the band even if it was made clear that he would not be in charge like the old days.  I just can't see Petrucci handing the keys back over to him, especially in regards to set lists.

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #73 on: May 31, 2018, 07:43:25 PM »
Why is Derek even part of this scenario?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #74 on: June 01, 2018, 05:02:16 AM »
I have met JP twice, but I don't "know" him.  But he seems like a kind, reasonable person.  I really believe that somewhere, sometime before they hang it up he will invite MP to play at least a song or two for a proper onstage goodbye.  Maybe a song MP chose and then Finally Free would be fitting.  To NOT offer that to MP, regardless of the past, would in my mind be a bit cruel.
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Offline Renzo

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2018, 06:33:20 AM »
My bet is that in DT's farewell tour (which I hope is FAR FAR away from now) all of DT's former memebers will reunite in one big event. But I higly doubt it as we all know what happened with DS and that KM is nowhere to be seen. But, you never know...

Offline BeardedGentlemanHistorian

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2018, 05:58:42 PM »
I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year? I know it isn't their most popular album but since it was the last album Portnoy worked on I'm curious if there is any interest in an anniversary show similar to what they did for Dominici back in 2004 for WDADU's 15th. Maybe use the opportunity to play the entire 12 Step Suite with him?

I know it's probably a long shot. I'm not holding my breath for this one.

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #77 on: June 01, 2018, 06:15:38 PM »
I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year?

I highly doubt it.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #78 on: June 01, 2018, 07:17:28 PM »
My bet is that in DT's farewell tour (which I hope is FAR FAR away from now) all of DT's former memebers will reunite in one big event. But I higly doubt it as we all know what happened with DS and that KM is nowhere to be seen. But, you never know...

I am not sure I would assume there'll be a farewell tour.  What bands have actually done farewell tours (where they didn't end up touring again)?  I am sure there are a few, but I am having trouble thinking of anyone at the moment (The Gathering, maybe?).

Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2018, 08:24:39 PM »
It’d be very cool to have Kevin Moore collaborate with lyrics on a new DT song.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline pg1067

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #80 on: June 04, 2018, 12:33:19 PM »
I wonder if the band or MP have thought arranging anything for the 10th anniversary for BC&SL next year? I know it isn't their most popular album but since it was the last album Portnoy worked on I'm curious if there is any interest in an anniversary show similar to what they did for Dominici back in 2004 for WDADU's 15th. Maybe use the opportunity to play the entire 12 Step Suite with him?

I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.

I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.


I am not sure I would assume there'll be a farewell tour.  What bands have actually done farewell tours (where they didn't end up touring again)?  I am sure there are a few, but I am having trouble thinking of anyone at the moment (The Gathering, maybe?).

Rush (although it wasn't officially billed as a "farewell" tour, everyone knew that's what it was).
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #81 on: June 04, 2018, 01:06:50 PM »
I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.

I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.

Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #82 on: June 04, 2018, 01:17:30 PM »
I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.

I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.

Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration?

Exactly. Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #83 on: June 04, 2018, 01:41:15 PM »
I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.

I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.

Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?


That is his point.  They DIDN'T acknowledge SC's 10th anniversary, so they won't likely acknowledge BCSL's. 
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #84 on: June 04, 2018, 01:59:47 PM »
Of course he did, now that I read it again. I just read it completely wrong the first time.

Do the guys (minus MM) even like BC&SL and SC?  :lol
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #85 on: June 04, 2018, 02:03:18 PM »
Yup, they do.  Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously).  But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2018, 02:06:13 PM »
That was definitely me be snarky. I am not the tourography wizard like some fans are so never keep track mentally of what is played on various tours.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2018, 03:16:33 PM »
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2018, 03:18:49 PM »
Of course he did, now that I read it again. I just read it completely wrong the first time.

Do the guys (minus MM) even like BC&SL and SC?  :lol

Fwiw, MM said his favorite song to perform (of the other Mikes) at a Q&A I was at was Dark Eternal Night. This was about 5 years ago so maybe it's changed

I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\

Indeed  ( to both points)

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #89 on: June 04, 2018, 03:25:06 PM »
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\

My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums  ;D
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Offline Peter Mc

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #90 on: June 04, 2018, 04:05:13 PM »
Yup, they do.  Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously).  But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.

May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #91 on: June 04, 2018, 04:29:46 PM »
Yup, they do.  Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously).  But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.

May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
As far as BCSL, I know they played TCOT on the European leg right after the announcement of Mangini joining before the proper ADTOE tour kicked off.  I want to say they played Wither and ANTR a couple of times on those shows, but I'm not sure and may be misremembering that.  So BCSL is covered on the pre-ADTOE tour.

Then on the ADTOE tour, they played Forsaken and TDEN.

On the AFTR tour, they played TSF.

For the TA tour, they didn't touch either album.

Then for the I&W tour, they did TDEN again.

So, yeah, all Mangini tours other than TA had SC, BCSL, or both.

As far as TOT, 8V, or SDOIT...I know they did ES and AIA after Mangini joining.  I don't believe they've done anything from 8V, but I may not be remembering.  SDOIT...I know they did parts of the title song and they've done TGD.  I don't remember if they've done anything else. 

EDIT:  Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.

Anyone who would like is welcome to search the tour archive in case I missed anything.  :D
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #92 on: June 04, 2018, 04:43:45 PM »
Yup, they do.  Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously).  But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.

May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.

Actually, since MM joined, they've played:

SC: Forsaken (2011 tour before ADTOE), TDEN (ADTOE tour and IWAB tour) and CM (2015 tour)
BC&SL: TCOT (2011 tour before ADTOE), TSF (AFTR tour) and Wither (2015 tour).

EDIT: Bosk beat me to it ;D

EDIT2:

SDOIT: TGD (2011 tour), WIMH and TTTSTA (ADTOE tour), About to Crash (2015 tour).
TOT: AIA (many many times), ES (ADTOE tour).
OVM: These Walls (ADTOE tour), TROAE (ADTOE tour), Panic Attack (2015 tour)
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:52:52 PM by gzarruk »
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #93 on: June 04, 2018, 04:47:59 PM »
You forgot The Root of All Evil, ADTOE tour.
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #94 on: June 04, 2018, 06:07:38 PM »
I think WDaDRu was a lot more about the album's anniversary, and they took that opportunity to have Charlie and Derek guest on a couple songs.

I think they'll probably do about as much for BC&SL's 10th anniversary as they did for the 10th anniversary of Systematic Chaos.
Not meaning to sound snarky, but... why? Why does every album need an anniversary celebration? Scotty or someone more knowledgable can chime in, but without MP would the other 4 have given a crap about the 15th anniversary of WDaDU? Especially enough to invite two guys they canned to perform with them?
I think MP is far more nostalgic than the other guys in the band, especially when it comes to their early history (before they made it "big"), so without MP, they probably would've passed that day by without even remembering that WDaDU was released on March 6th. But it also served as a means for them to finally re-record (albeit live) WDaDU with the then current line-up. So many fans had been wanting WDaDU, but with JL on vocals and remixed. So doing this particular anniversary show was the opportunity for them to do it too.

Given that both CD and DS live in SoCal and the show was happening in LA, it was an easy choice to invite them to join in on the celebration of that anniversary, especially since both songs played during the encore were songs written and performed during some of the latter shows in 1989 before CD was let go.
 
 
Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.
 
 
I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums  ;D
What MirrorMask said.    :tup
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2018, 09:10:19 PM »
Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.

Like Geoff tate celebrating Mindcrime every 5 years or so :facepalm:


I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums  ;D
What MirrorMask said.    :tup

Well, to each their own, but SC is very underrated to me. The album is heavy, progressive, technical and, while it might not be everybody's cup of tea, it feels like it follows a clear direction and vision (a more modern sounding, heavy album with the DT trademark sound). Black Clouds, on the other hand, feels like they weren't quite sure where to go with it, some stuff isn't that good (ROOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRGGHHHHHHHHH) and it can sound stale at times
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2018, 10:03:50 PM »
Well this little discussion inspired me to again check out their performance of Constant Motion from Wacken in 2015.  Man, that was a killer performance.   :metal

Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2018, 10:37:16 PM »
Well this little discussion inspired me to again check out their performance of Constant Motion from Wacken in 2015.  Man, that was a killer performance.   :metal

I recommend you also check this one from the same tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I
It's probably my favorite live version of Panic Attack, and Mangini absolutely kills it in the most amazing way :metal
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2018, 07:17:19 AM »
I recommend you also check this one from the same tour https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZMnjSL129I
It's probably my favorite live version of Panic Attack, and Mangini absolutely kills it in the most amazing way :metal

Killer rendition.  :metal

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2018, 08:41:18 AM »
Some classic albums like IAW and SFAM deserve some recognition, but please no more anniversary tours.
Agreed. The anniversary idea is cool as long as it's something special. When every album gets some sort of anniversary tour, there's nothing special about the idea any more.
Like Geoff tate celebrating Mindcrime every 5 years or so :facepalm:
Or Yes playing a couple of their old albums from front to back for several tours now.


I think SC is much better than most people say it is, don't know why it gets so much hate. Black Clouds, though... not one of their best albums :\
My tastes agree with you.... as long as you switch the names of the albums  ;D
What MirrorMask said.    :tup
Well, to each their own, but SC is very underrated to me. The album is heavy, progressive, technical and, while it might not be everybody's cup of tea, it feels like it follows a clear direction and vision (a more modern sounding, heavy album with the DT trademark sound). Black Clouds, on the other hand, feels like they weren't quite sure where to go with it, some stuff isn't that good (ROOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRGGHHHHHHHHH) and it can sound stale at times
Different strokes for different folks. But I wouldn't say that they weren't quite sure where to go with it, nor that some stuff isn't good (aside from the bebot solo, the roar and some of the lyrics). The vision the band had with BCaSL was to vary the musical styles within individual songs (in reaction to SC, where they felt overall that the songs on that album didn't have much variety within each song), to create songs with non-traditional arrangements, and to do away with the inspiration corner. I'd say they succeeded in their goals.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Peter Mc

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2018, 10:31:48 AM »
Yup, they do.  Songs from both albums have made appearances on every tour after those albums came out (other than the TA tour, obviously).  But they realize those aren't really "landmark" albums.

May be totally wrong on this as am going purely from memory but I can only recall one BC&SL song being played since the actual tour for the album and that was Shattered Fortress on the Along For The Ride Tour can’t remember them touching that album on ADTOE, Astonishing or I&W tours. Also, as far as I can recall, they’ve only ever played TDEN off SC since MM took over, in the shows I’ve seen at least. Not sure that they’ve played too much off TOT, 8V or SDOIT regularly either. They seem to mainly go back to early albums up to Scenes and then jump to Mangini era so I wouldn’t expect any kind of anniversary related stuff for any of the post SFAM albums except maybe The Astonishing in a few years time if they wanted to do some kind of live dvd release.
As far as BCSL, I know they played TCOT on the European leg right after the announcement of Mangini joining before the proper ADTOE tour kicked off.  I want to say they played Wither and ANTR a couple of times on those shows, but I'm not sure and may be misremembering that.  So BCSL is covered on the pre-ADTOE tour.

Then on the ADTOE tour, they played Forsaken and TDEN.

On the AFTR tour, they played TSF.

For the TA tour, they didn't touch either album.

Then for the I&W tour, they did TDEN again.

So, yeah, all Mangini tours other than TA had SC, BCSL, or both.

As far as TOT, 8V, or SDOIT...I know they did ES and AIA after Mangini joining.  I don't believe they've done anything from 8V, but I may not be remembering.  SDOIT...I know they did parts of the title song and they've done TGD.  I don't remember if they've done anything else. 

EDIT:  Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.

Anyone who would like is welcome to search the tour archive in case I missed anything.  :D

Forgot about those in between mini tours. Even so I’d still argue that they haven’t revisited those albums extensively in the last few years. I will caveat that though by saying that the AFTR tour had a big chunk of the show paying tribute to Awake and SFAM, Astonishing tour obviously didn’t feature much else at all and Images tour obviously had the whole album plus ACOS. Will be interesting to see what happens now that they have more of a free rein. Would love to hear The Glass Prison again, seems quite a big fan favourite and JP has commented before how well it went over live but they never play it.

Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2018, 10:45:21 AM »
Yes, but given how many albums they have, it's pretty amazing that they continue to at least play something from each one of them.
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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #102 on: June 06, 2018, 06:46:52 AM »
Different strokes for different folks. But I wouldn't say that they weren't quite sure where to go with it, nor that some stuff isn't good (aside from the bebot solo, the roar and some of the lyrics). The vision the band had with BCaSL was to vary the musical styles within individual songs (in reaction to SC, where they felt overall that the songs on that album didn't have much variety within each song), to create songs with non-traditional arrangements, and to do away with the inspiration corner. I'd say they succeeded in their goals.

The "reaction" path DT has done for many of their albums is not one I'm particularly fond of. And sometimes it's been blatantly obvious. I understand the "need" to have each album be an evolution or a change, but for many albums in a row in the 2000s, the subsequent album was always a reaction to the reception of the previous. ToT was a reaction to the experimental portion of SDOIT, where DT saw that TGP had a much more even reaction from the fanbase than other songs. Combined with the inspiration from going to Pantera shows etc, they created the antithesis to experimental SDOIT - the super heavy ToT. And then the reaction from the fanbase was "too heavy!", and they went to 8V. And then the reaction was "too political, to much real life!", and they went all out on "fictional stories". I know I'm simplifying it a bit now, but I do have interviews that display this very exact notion. It might not have been conscious, but they for sure were asked about it in interviews (I should know, I was responsible for some of the interviews myself! ;)
There will be a reckoning.

Offline sfam2112

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #103 on: June 06, 2018, 07:11:13 AM »
EDIT:  Just remembered they did These Walls on the ADTOE tour, so 8V actually is covered.

and Panic Attack on the 30th Anniversary mini-tour. ;)
My music:
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"I love to rock. I love to rock hard. I love hard rockin'! I LIKE TO ROCK!! I LOVE TO ROCK!!!!" - Colin Mochrie