Author Topic: What if MP and Derek both came back?  (Read 2054 times)

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Offline darkshade

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What if MP and Derek both came back?
« on: May 28, 2018, 12:49:41 PM »
Like next album cycle down the road, the band decides they're looking for something different, maybe amends are made with MP, and instead of canning MM, going the double drummer route, and MP agrees to it, but insisting on bringing Derek back on board. Not sure how the fan base would react to all of it, though I think it would be a very positive development. It'd be pretty prog of them too. Too bad I sense the band has become Dream Theater feat. John Petrucci.

Offline TAC

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2018, 01:00:30 PM »
Might be time to lay off the  :hat , dude.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2018, 01:00:37 PM »
No.

Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year. 

And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).

Offline darkshade

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2018, 01:12:27 PM »
No.

Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year. 

And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).

Rudess would stay.

Sherinian would bring a much needed grounded, jazzy, sound. His most recent solo album "Oceana" was the best one he's released.

Please, don't take social media so serious. Modern DT has become too much of The John Petrucci Band.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2018, 01:15:14 PM »
Dream Theater doesn't need two keyboard players.

People usually show their true selves on social media. Sherinian showed everyone his true self. I will leave it at that.

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2018, 01:21:44 PM »
I'm not a Rudess boy and to be honest I believe Sherinian would bring progressive elements that DT lost (IMO) since SDOIT -TOT era. On the other hand I'm not fond of Sherinian personality much so overall Rudess is the best option.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 01:22:25 PM »
Dream Theater doesn't need two keyboard players.

People usually show their true selves on social media. Sherinian showed everyone his true self. I will leave it at that.

Exactly.  There is nothing Derek brings to the table that DT "needs."  And bringing him back would make the music suffer to such a degree that I'm not sure they could recover from the inevitably huge hit to their fanbase that would be caused by such a move.
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Offline darkshade

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2018, 01:32:25 PM »
None (most?) of us know the guys personally, I find social media posts are like posting cartoon versions of yourself, or mini-press releases, unless intended to be bigger. What really shows someone's true personality is a secret camera/mic filming/recording interactions behind closed doors. Social media still has a filter to it, and from what I recall, wasn't a lot of Derek's posts (don't even remember what they were about) sort of tongue in cheek?

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2018, 01:34:01 PM »
Definitely not. The only way Portnoy should come back is if Mangini leaves on his own accord (and he would have a lot of work to do in terms of mending his relationships with the guys, especially James), and Derek shouldn’t come back ever. Dream Theater has always been a band that celebrates the past but don’t repeat it (cue ADToE/IaW jokes), and bringing either guy back would honestly be a step backwards.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2018, 01:37:39 PM »
What if MP and Derek both came back?

I would stop listening to DT inmediately :biggrin: Thank God that's never going to happen ;)

Seriously, I still think that there might be a small chance of MP returning someday in the future if Mangini decides to leave or something, and if Portnoy is done with his 80 current bands, but both Mike and Derek? Why? To make DT sound like SOA? No, thank you. He's taken a lot of shots at them recently, and, frankly, if Jordan ever left, I'd rather have Diego Tejeida there than Derek "my keyboard sounds like a guitar" Sherinian. Like Kev said, it would be the most regressive thing to do :tdwn
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2018, 01:37:56 PM »
Sherinian would bring a much needed grounded, jazzy, sound.

No rock/metal band in the history of music has needed "jazzy" sound.

The whole reason Planet X existed was because it was a big middle finger to DT.

Considering how "big" Planet X was, I would say that it was a very small middle finger.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2018, 01:45:54 PM »
The only ex member thas a - very slightly and tiny and nigh impossible at that - chance of returning is Portnoy. Sherinian coming back is likely as Dominici coming back.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2018, 02:04:37 PM »
Nope. I really hope MP and DS keep Sons of Apollo together and make more albums. They have something really good going on and I'd like to see it take off.  SOA is a good home for them and the band has a great chemistry, their live show is amazing and JSS is a excellent frontman.
 Dream Theater is just fine the way they are..
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Offline Nekov

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2018, 02:16:43 PM »
Lol no. MP maybe and I can't really see that happening. And before bringing Derek back I would aim to bring Kevin Moore since he could add something different and far more interesting than Derek could.
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Offline 7enderbender

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2018, 08:53:14 PM »
I wouldn’t like the double drummer idea. That only works for Adam Ant. And this is not to say that I don’t like Mangini’s drumming. It’s the other driving elements that were lost with Portnoy’s departure. Now it’s the Petrucci show and that is only partially good, sometimes outright bad.
And I’d love to see Derek come back. I think he sounded better. Never was fully on board with what Rudess brought to the band. DS is one of the most solid keyboard players in the industry. Rudess is a pianist with a tech company and it shows.
So yeah, I like parts of the idea but it’s unlikely. The band will probably just fizzle out like these things tend to go.

Offline 7enderbender

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2018, 08:56:57 PM »
No.

Going from Rudess to Sherinian alone would be too much of a step back. Not to mention that there is no need to bring back a guy they fired 19 years ago who took repeated shots at them on social media last year. 

And it would be regressive, not prog(ressive).

Yes, the blabbering about the old stuff was a bad idea (though understandable). But musically I think he always would’ve been the better choice.

Offline PetFish

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2018, 11:53:16 PM »
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Offline RoeDent

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2018, 02:05:21 AM »
Both should never be allowed anywhere near Dream Theater after their disgraceful antics during the Sons of Apollo prerelease. Tbh, I'm surprised Derek even teamed up with Mike again after the way he was dismissed from DT in the late 90s.

Also, I vastly prefer it being The Petrucci Show to The Portnoy Show. The music is a ton better for it. None of that "EVERYONESURVIVEDBLAAARGH" rubbish.
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Offline noxon

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2018, 04:17:36 AM »
As a one off I could totally see this happening. But I dont see how it would work as a permanent solution. Much for the same reason you'll never see a second guitarist with DT ;) The ego clashes would be too great. There was a band that tried to do this - Yes, with the Union album and tour. The album was a mess, and the tour ended with three of the members leaving again.

The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2018, 08:40:41 AM »
Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2018, 08:45:35 AM »
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.

I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.
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Offline Kattoelox

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2018, 08:49:10 AM »
Derek especially, but even MP too, neither of them deserve to be back in DT. Keep Derek, at the least, far away from anything DT (and for all his talk about gadgets and bashing DT, he should stfu and stop playing their songs live, the tryhard 'king of keys' should play his own masterful compositions from his own extensive catalog of prog wankery).

Offline DT2003

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2018, 10:17:32 AM »
The only reason DT should bring MP and Derek back into the band would be so they could kick them out! The disrespect those two (especially Derek) have given to DT have eliminated any chance of them getting back in the band IMO. I used to hope Mike would return to DT eventually, but I don’t feel that way anymore.

Offline pg1067

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2018, 10:44:00 AM »
In a band as "busy" (in a musical sense) as DT, having two drummers and two keyboard players would be absolutely ridiculous.

Seems to me that the whole point of this thread is that the OP is less than satisfied with the level of control that JP has had over the band since MP left.


The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.

I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.

Well...what would it mean to "accept MP back" into the band?  Whether or not the fans, individually or collectively, like something only matters as it relates to album sales and concert attendance.  Lots of folks didn't "accept" MP leaving and being replaced by MM.  Would some fans stop listening to DT if MP came back?  Probably, but I think at least an equal number of fans who stopped listening after he left the band would start listening again.  I think that, for the fan base as a whole (as opposed to the small sample that post here), acceptance will depend on the quality of the musical output.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2018, 11:19:19 AM »
In a band as "busy" (in a musical sense) as DT, having two drummers and two keyboard players would be absolutely ridiculous.

Seems to me that the whole point of this thread is that the OP is less than satisfied with the level of control that JP has had over the band since MP left.


The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.

I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.

Well...what would it mean to "accept MP back" into the band?  Whether or not the fans, individually or collectively, like something only matters as it relates to album sales and concert attendance.  Lots of folks didn't "accept" MP leaving and being replaced by MM.  Would some fans stop listening to DT if MP came back?  Probably, but I think at least an equal number of fans who stopped listening after he left the band would start listening again.  I think that, for the fan base as a whole (as opposed to the small sample that post here), acceptance will depend on the quality of the musical output.

I pretty much agree with all of that.  And as to the bolded part, that is largely my point with regard to Derek specifically.  In the grand scheme of things, I don't think there are a statistically significant number of fans that would write off DT out of awareness of and reaction to Derek's social media conduct.  But, while I'm not taking away from Derek's ability as a player or songwriter, he just isn't as strong in either category as Jordan, and I think fans would likely notice a dropoff in quality that would cause album sales to suffer, just as they did with FII.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2018, 12:55:14 PM »
Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?

Diego Tejeida from Haken would be a perfect fit. He already did the Shattered Fortress tour with MP and nailed it perfectly.

The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time.

I am not so certain of this generalization. I know it's a super small sample but nothing in this thread shows me this is true.

I would definitely not be happy with MP returning if they kick Mangini out for it to happen. If MM decides to leave by his own choice, I'd be ok with it, as long as they don't become MP backing vocals/growls fest again. However, I'd rather have DT with someone like Bobby Jarzombek, for example, as opposed to another stint with Portnoy.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline PetFish

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2018, 12:08:09 AM »
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).

Um, no.  Not even a little.  Hard pass.

Offline Bertielee

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2018, 02:37:29 AM »
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).

Um, no.  Not even a little.  Hard pass.

No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't  be the only one.

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Offline Peter Mc

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2018, 07:13:59 AM »
In reply to the original post, MP and DS are already in a band together so maybe you should listen to Sons Of Apollo if you crave hearing what they produce.  Not sure DT need any help from them when you consider how SOA are doing in comparison.  I do quite like their album as it happens but it's not on DT's level for me at least.

As for fans accepting them back, I think it's completely different for Mike than it is for Derek.  Mike is a founder member and is intrinsically linked with the band for most of their existence.  I think fans will largely welcome him back and be excited to see what happened, not every single person of course, but most will like to see as close to the classic line-up as possible.  Clearly though, the music would still have to be good. 

I'm not sure even the biggest Sherinian fanboy out there can claim that he is part of the classic line-up.  He did one classic EP, largely written before he arrived, and one album with a fairly mixed reception. Not too many people are pining for Derek to come back irrespective of his hilarious banter and I for one think he is nowhere near the level of Jordan Rudess or Kevin Moore as a musician or composer.  He was let go for a reason whether Mike wants to re-write history regarding his part in it or not.  I'm not saying that I would stop listening to DT if Derek came back, just that I would not be remotely excited or even intrigued if he did and I think it would be a step backwards.

Offline AngelBack

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2018, 07:22:36 AM »
Will DT and MP play again together?  Most certainly at some sort of reunion show, most likely in NYC when DT nears the end of their career.  Will MP rejoin?  Never.  JP (like it or not) is the sole captain and he isn't going to disrupt the trajectory they are on.

And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join.  So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning.  I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2018, 02:52:54 PM »
To answer the OP, I can't ever imagine DT going the double drummer/double keyboard route. I think the comparison to Yes' Union lineup is a good one.

And at this point in time, I can't imagine MP ever coming back on a permanent basis. A lot of things would have to happen before that could ever be a possibility, starting with MM choosing to leave the band on his own. Not an impossibility, but highly unlikely. And DS coming back is even more improbable, although not out of the complete realm of possibility. Given that they are playing together in a band that's sort of prog-metal, I don't see it happening in any case.
 
 
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no.  Not even a little.  Hard pass.
No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't  be the only one.
No, saying "the" fan base implies most of the fans. It goes without saying that every single individual that is a part of the fan base is never going to agree with everything that happens. It's why there are those still upset over MP leaving and MM being DT's drummer, as well as those who welcome MM and are glad MP is gone. It's why everybody's ranking of DT's albums is different. And noxon knew that when he made his post.
 
 
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join.  So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning.  I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
Ummmmm....no. In Lifting Shadows, MP states that JP and JM approached him in the lunch room, and they decided to get together and jam. He even said "We never even officially said 'Hey, let's get together and form a band.'" Further, JP stated "As far as I was concerned, we had a band before we went [to Berklee]. It was me, John and Kevin and we had different drummers we were playing with. When we went there, in a way it was like breaking up the band because Kevin didn't go there. So I don't think in my mind I was thinking about going there to form a band."

It's clear that JP and JM did not have intentions of forming a band, nor had they done so before meeting MP. So please stop with the pointless, misleading and unnecessary comments.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline pcs90

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2018, 03:20:18 PM »
Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk

Offline Dublagent66

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2018, 03:25:48 PM »
Um....Kevin Moore.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2018, 03:33:26 PM »
Who would be a candidate to replace JR assuming he decides to retire?
Keyboardist in this band sounds just like JR in places, particularly the solo at the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F65IQmP7lCk

Those guys all look way too happy for any of them to be in a metal band!  :D :metal :D :metal


And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join.  So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning.  I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....

That's splitting hairs that have already been split.  Even if it was correct that "John and John had already decided to start a band" when they met MP, "decid[ing] to start a band" and actually having started a band are two very different things.  To play on the "his baby" metaphor, it's like saying that the father of an actual baby wasn't really "there from the beginning" because the mother "had already decided to" have a child.
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Offline AngelBack

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Re: What if MP and Derek both came back?
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2018, 03:34:09 PM »
To answer the OP, I can't ever imagine DT going the double drummer/double keyboard route. I think the comparison to Yes' Union lineup is a good one.

And at this point in time, I can't imagine MP ever coming back on a permanent basis. A lot of things would have to happen before that could ever be a possibility, starting with MM choosing to leave the band on his own. Not an impossibility, but highly unlikely. And DS coming back is even more improbable, although not out of the complete realm of possibility. Given that they are playing together in a band that's sort of prog-metal, I don't see it happening in any case.
 
 
The fan base would gladly accept MP back any time. DS I'm a bit more uncertain of, seeing as a lot of people had no love for him during the time he was in DT (and after).
Um, no.  Not even a little.  Hard pass.
No as well. Because saying "the" fan base implies that the whole fan base would. I, for one, would not and I'm sure I wouldn't  be the only one.
No, saying "the" fan base implies most of the fans. It goes without saying that every single individual that is a part of the fan base is never going to agree with everything that happens. It's why there are those still upset over MP leaving and MM being DT's drummer, as well as those who welcome MM and are glad MP is gone. It's why everybody's ranking of DT's albums is different. And noxon knew that when he made his post.
 
 
And this may be splitting hairs, but John and John had already decided to start a band when they walked by that practice room at Berklee and heard MP playing and asked him to join.  So, technically, MP was not there from the beginning.  I only point that out because I get tired of hearing MP say it was his baby, blah blah.....
Ummmmm....no. In Lifting Shadows, MP states that JP and JM approached him in the lunch room, and they decided to get together and jam. He even said "We never even officially said 'Hey, let's get together and form a band.'" Further, JP stated "As far as I was concerned, we had a band before we went [to Berklee]. It was me, John and Kevin and we had different drummers we were playing with. When we went there, in a way it was like breaking up the band because Kevin didn't go there. So I don't think in my mind I was thinking about going there to form a band."

It's clear that JP and JM did not have intentions of forming a band, nor had they done so before meeting MP. So please stop with the pointless, misleading and unnecessary comments.

From the Berklee website alumni page:

In 1985, Dream Theater began as Majesty after longtime bandmates Petrucci and Myung arrived at Berklee in search of a drummer who was into progressive rock and metal. They heard Portnoy in a practice room and soon began jamming together. The trio would become the core of one of rock's most virtuosic and heavy bands. After leaving Berklee, the group added a vocalist and keyboard player and changed its name to Dream Theater. Current vocalist LaBrie is the band's third singer and the best fit. His agile voice snarls on the metal tune "The Dark Eternal Night" and then soars sweet and high on the power ballad "The Ministry of Lost Souls" (both from Systematic Chaos). The fleet-fingered Rudess, who joined in 1999 and replaced Berklee alumnus Derek Sherinian '84, is the band's third keyboard player (for more on Sherinian, see "Prepared to Handle Anything," page 13).

I guess you know best, you read a book and this could be wrong, but I was not misleading anyone. I truly always thought this was the actual history and that JP was in fact the mother of DT.
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