Author Topic: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion  (Read 5449 times)

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Offline AngelBack

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #70 on: June 06, 2018, 08:05:40 AM »
I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

Great point.  JP could crank out AC/DC songs all day but that is not what he is about.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #71 on: June 06, 2018, 08:22:08 AM »
The re-entrance on IT is one of the coolest riffs ever written period. That whole section with the piano arpeggio riff is killer too.

Totally, on both.  As to the bolded, that is easily my favorite moment on the entire album and one of my all-time favorite DT moments ever.

I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

Agreed.  That killer riff is Ravenskill is a prime example.  It completely changes the mood of the song and is one of my favorite JP riffs of all time.  BUT IT'S JUST SO SHORT!  I sent JP a long email rant about it once.  He laughed and said something along the lines of, "Maybe I'll have to revisit that one then on The Astonishing 2."  :lol
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2018, 09:05:48 AM »
I think the other thing to keep in mind, a lot of bands will get a cool riff and base the whole song around it, that kinda makes the riff more memorable for a lot of people because of the repetition. Think about a song like Sad But True by Metallica - crushing riff and they sit on it for the majority of the song. DT doesn't do that. JP has written so many great riffs that pop up once in a complex DT song and last for 30 seconds of a ten + minute song and is surrounded by 20 other parts or sections.

This. Is much easier to come up with one cool riff and thatís it, you got a song. With DT you get much more complex song structures and lots of riff/idea changes.

Btw, something I miss from JPís playing is his classic acoustic guitar solos, like in LTL before the big F# part, the very cool solo on Solitary Shell or the one on LTEís Another Dimension. Theyíre so good, I wish he did more of that.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #73 on: June 06, 2018, 09:07:07 AM »
Agreed.  That killer riff is Ravenskill is a prime example.  It completely changes the mood of the song and is one of my favorite JP riffs of all time.  BUT IT'S JUST SO SHORT!  I sent JP a long email rant about it once.  He laughed and said something along the lines of, "Maybe I'll have to revisit that one then on The Astonishing 2."  :lol

Hah! That's definitely a perfect example. Killer riff  :metal

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #74 on: June 06, 2018, 04:16:10 PM »
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #75 on: June 06, 2018, 08:43:02 PM »
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...

Yes, Jordan said that, specifically talking about TA, sometimes it isnít as obvious as ďheavy riffs came from JPĒ and ďsofter piano parts came from JordanĒ.
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2018, 07:12:13 AM »
I also seem to remember Jordan saying sometimes he is the one who comes up with riffs, not JP. I have no idea how common that is or who is responsible for each one, but that may be something to keep in mind too...

Yes, Jordan said that, specifically talking about TA, sometimes it isnít as obvious as ďheavy riffs came from JPĒ and ďsofter piano parts came from JordanĒ.

Right, I remember him saying that. I believe that in context, he was discussing the fact that he brings heavy stuff to the table a lot and JP sometimes brings mellow stuff to the table. I think, over the last couple records in particular, sections and riffs are probably a good mix of JP or JR or both.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2018, 09:26:37 AM »
There is that riff aspect in the twelve steps suite, as a DT fan, when the glass prison riffs is in the last part, or when the root of all evil repeats in the following song :)
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2018, 12:54:22 PM »
I remember being a huge Metallica fan back in the day. Then I heard Dream Theater. The difference in guitar-playing quality was so apparent, and I'm not even talking about solos specifically. For some reason, I immediately noticed how a lot of Metallica choruses are basically just a few basic power chords that ring out while Hetfield sings, whereas Dream Theater choruses have a lot more going on. I'm not a musician by trade, so I'm probably botching the explanation, but I think the moral of the story is: Petrucci is not just a great shredder, but a great rhythm player as well.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2018, 06:43:32 PM »
I will say this about JP, I think he is a great riff writer and a great soloist but I don't think he can write good solo material. I know there is only one JP solo album out but it wasn't what I was expecting. I feel he writes better when he is writing for a band.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2018, 06:52:33 AM »
I will say this about JP, I think he is a great riff writer and a great soloist but I don't think he can write good solo material. I know there is only one JP solo album out but it wasn't what I was expecting. I feel he writes better when he is writing for a band.

While I agree with your overall point (JP writes better in a band context), I'd have to respectful disagree about his solo record. I find myself going back to SA a lot, and it's become one of my favorite instrumental records over the years, easily. There's some killer stuff on there.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2018, 08:13:03 AM »
Same here.  But I am also very late to the party with that album.  I only just got it during this last G3 tour, so I hadn't gotten into it early.  But lots to like, even though I am generally not an instrumental music guy.  I just wish he would record Wrath of the Amazons.  :metal

Aside from Mikey's comment, I was going to come and post in the thread this morning anyway.  I was thinking about this discussion as I was driving in and listening to The Astonishing pretty loudly in my car.  The solo in A Better Life really hit me.  I've always really liked the shreddy, noodly stuff in the first half of that solo.  It is just so clean and awesome.  But what really hit me was the more soaring second half.  It's really cool how JP can go from shred to capturing that emotional, soaring vibe of a Gilmore or Schon in a heartbeat, sometimes juxtaposing the two in interesting ways.  This solo does that really well.  And it also nicely sets the table for the awesome Evangeline bridge that follows.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2018, 08:17:03 AM »
Same here.  But I am also very late to the party with that album.  I only just got it during this last G3 tour, so I hadn't gotten into it early.  But lots to like, even though I am generally not an instrumental music guy.  I just wish he would record Wrath of the Amazons.  :metal

Aside from Mikey's comment, I was going to come and post in the thread this morning anyway.  I was thinking about this discussion as I was driving in and listening to The Astonishing pretty loudly in my car.  The solo in A Better Life really hit me.  I've always really liked the shreddy, noodly stuff in the first half of that solo.  It is just so clean and awesome.  But what really hit me was the more soaring second half.  It's really cool how JP can go from shred to capturing that emotional, soaring vibe of a Gilmore or Schon in a heartbeat, sometimes juxtaposing the two in interesting ways.  This solo does that really well.  And it also nicely sets the table for the awesome Evangeline bridge that follows.

Yeah, that solo does a great job of blending the shred and the melody. Speaking of solos that show his diversity as a player and speaking of his solo record - I was just listening to his solo in Jaws of Life and it's literally a journey. He touches on shred, bluesy stuff, melodic stuff, different modes, etc... Killer showcase for him as a player.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2018, 01:36:42 PM »
The A Better Life solo is one of my favorite JP solos honestly. It's short, but so well done. It still blows my mind when people say TA has no memorable Petrucci solos.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2018, 01:38:10 PM »
The solo in When Your Time Has Come is pretty spectacular as well.  I know people tend to zero in on the ending solo in A New Beginning, but TA actually has quite a few really solid, memorable solos.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2018, 01:40:38 PM »
Yes, good call on WYTHC.

There is so much Dream Theater goodness throughout TA.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2018, 02:27:20 PM »
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2018, 02:39:37 PM »
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2018, 02:48:49 PM »
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?

Yeah, I've heard it. I really need to buy a copy one of these days. I really enjoy it, although there are many moments where there's too much Jordan-ing around, too much flashiness, too... um... too many notes.  :lol
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2018, 02:51:49 PM »
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. 

This, to me, was the one thing truly missing from DT's catalog. I have always said, I hope they have piano and more James. The Astonishing gave me that in spades.

And with this being a JP thread, he plays so many different styles on this one album. I mean, the entire band is showing off very discreetly.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2018, 02:54:39 PM »
My favorite Astonishing moments are the ones with just piano and James. Like The Answer. Throw a little gentle guitar in there too and I melt. Between original album releases I would kill to hear an acoustic/unplugged Dream Theater album.
Not exactly the same, but I assume you've heard Jordan's solo piano album where he covers DT songs?

Yeah, I've heard it. I really need to buy a copy one of these days. I really enjoy it, although there are many moments where there's too much Jordan-ing around, too much flashiness, too... um... too many notes.  :lol

Yeah, a few tracks are just too over the top. There's another video of him playing TSCO with someone else on strings behind him that is fantastic though. Probably one of those Korg or Sweetwater presentation videos...

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2018, 04:41:39 PM »
Apologies if there's another thread somewhere...

But I wanted to talk about John Petrucci, and where most people rank him all time and such...

I mean I expect most of us here rank him right near the top, but where would you put him among what are considered the classic greats. Certainly Dream Theater's discography stacks up against anyone's.



What got me thinking was the Thin Lizzy thread in GMD. Which always leads me to a Gary Moore binge. Now I've been a Dream Theater fan for a looooong time, and I have never heard JP cite Gary Moore as an influence. Yet he is the one guitarist that I constantly hear in JP's playing. I mean the chops and the speed, the emotion, and the technical ability. I consider Gary Moore the greatest guitarist I've ever heard, but frankly, I put John Petrucci right up there.

JP plays some Rush like passages for sure, but I'm not sure what other influences really come out in JP's playing. Does anyone have any thoughts on that? He cites Steve Morse as an influence, but personally, I don't know enough of Morse's work to hear it in JP. To the better educated, is Morse present in JP's playing?

If you had to describe JP's style to a friend, how would you do it?
Can anyone else vouch for the Gary Moore influence?

For myself, I rank JP in the top 10.  I don't know if he could go top 5, but he'd be pretty close.  I can hear subtle hints of what you are talking about in relation to Gary Moore Tim, and I don't actually know how much of a fan JP is of GM.  JP gets criticised sometimes of being too technical and a bit mechanical and I can see that sometimes in his shred.  The only thing about JP sometimes is that in his improv, some of his faster shred seems a little awkward and out of place, or a bit clunky.

That's only a minor gripe but when JP comes to mastering a solo, he's one of the best and can create some of the most emotionally intense and meaningful solos I've ever heard.  This puts him in a category above most.  I do hear a lot more Gilmour in his style than Moore honestly.  Solos like TSCO, ACOS, GK, BAI is where it's at for JP.  Those type of solos he easily one of the best, and he makes you cry with him with those solos.  On the other hand, UAGM, Lie, BTV, Home etc. he can make a memorable creative, kick ass shred fest sound like everything is meant to be there.  A lot of his solos are like mini songs within a song.  They aren't just solos, they are pieces within pieces.

It's not only his solos but a lot of his melodies too, like Overture 1928 is one of my fav JP moments, due to the two really melodic guitar lead lines in there, they are perfect.

Thinking about Gary Moore though, I do hear that in some of his faster picking stuff.  Like there's a tremelo picked section that's fast as hell that I'm thinking of in ITNOG that really actually reminds me of Moore's thing he does where he picks as fast as he can down a semitone interval apart working down a chromatic scale.  I can see a link there actually.  So I guess thinking about both, I can actually hear more influence in the faster playing over the emotional Loner, SGTB type songs.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2018, 04:54:25 PM »
Iím really not sure where you guys are hearing the Gary Moore influence...as far as alternate picking is concerned, Steve Morse and Al Di Meola are his top two influences. Heís also mentioned Yngwie a few times, but I donít ever recall hearing (or reading) him mention Gary Moore as an influence. I mean, sure, Gary Moore did some fast picking here and there, but there are so many other players that would come to mind first as influences for him. The main blues guitarist he mentioned to me as being a big influence on him was Stevie Ray Vaughan, and I can totally hear it. Stylistically, I donít really hear any similarities. Technique wise, again...thereís about five or six other players that would come to mind first.

Having said all that, Gary Moore is awesome, and I love his playing/music. I just donít really hear it in JPís playing. Also, itís worth mentioning that Di Meola didnít just influence him as far as alternate picking... the guitar/keyboard unison lines that DT is known for... we have Di Meola to thank for that, as well as Yes, of course.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2018, 05:45:10 PM »
 Hey Stew, thanks for your post. Truth be told, I'm a huge Gary Moore fan. Couldn't tell you the first thing about Morse or DiMeola.
I have never listened to JP and thought of Yngwie.

That said, there are plenty of times when I'm listening to Dream Theater when I stop and think, Oh man, that totally reminds me of Gary Moore. Like when JP holds those long deep single notes which emit so much feeling. Total Moore. As Kade mentioned ITNOG. Thinking The Razor's Edge section of 8V.

I don't know anything about alternate picking or technique or anything like that. But my ears always make the connection. To me, Gary Moore is the best I've ever heard, and I consider JP the Gary Moore of his generation. Like Moore, he is able to translate his virtuosity into musicality.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2018, 11:57:20 AM »
Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasnít ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. Iím just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesnít necessarily mean he doesnít like his playing, or hasnít been influenced by him. Iím sure heís at least aware of him. All Iím saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #95 on: June 10, 2018, 06:32:54 AM »
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #96 on: June 10, 2018, 07:07:10 AM »
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.

 :lol



Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasn’t ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. I’m just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t like his playing, or hasn’t been influenced by him. I’m sure he’s at least aware of him. All I’m saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.

Not sure when I'll ever come across Morse or DiMeola, tbh.

I'm not saying that I even want to make the connection. I just do, because they each effect me similarly.



And I didn't make this thread to pimp Gary Moore  ;D , but I was thinking of JP in terms of where he is in the pantheon of guitarists. Surely in his generation, he stands out.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #97 on: June 11, 2018, 05:15:44 AM »
I love JP, his style and sound. Great inspiration that started years ago with "Rock Discipline". I have 3 JP EBMM guitars, recreated his sound and tricks in the Axe-Fx... damn, I even use his picks.

That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #98 on: June 11, 2018, 06:55:51 AM »
Stewie,

That's just TAC. I recommend nodding, smiling and patting him on the head...unless he's napping. He startles easily.

 :lol



Maybe you should listen to some Steve Morse and Al Di Meola then! The influence is undeniably strong. Every time John gets asked about his influences, those two guys always get mentioned. To my knowledge, he hasnít ever mentioned Gary Moore as an influence. If Gary Moore is your favorite, then it makes sense for you to want to make that connection, for sure. Iím just saying, as far as what John himself has said over the years, Gary Moore has never been mentioned. Now, that doesnít necessarily mean he doesnít like his playing, or hasnít been influenced by him. Iím sure heís at least aware of him. All Iím saying is from a technique standpoint, as well as stylistically, they have very little in common. Totally different types of guitar player.

Not sure when I'll ever come across Morse or DiMeola, tbh.

I'm not saying that I even want to make the connection. I just do, because they each effect me similarly.



And I didn't make this thread to pimp Gary Moore  ;D , but I was thinking of JP in terms of where he is in the pantheon of guitarists. Surely in his generation, he stands out.

Check out 'Sometimes I Feel Like Screaming' from Deep Purple for a great Steve Morse track in terms of his more melodic playing.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #99 on: June 11, 2018, 09:06:43 AM »
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #100 on: June 11, 2018, 07:04:28 PM »
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #101 on: June 11, 2018, 07:26:16 PM »


Check out 'Sometimes I Feel Like Screaming' from Deep Purple for a great Steve Morse track in terms of his more melodic playing.

Just did, a live version. A very nice solo.
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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #102 on: June 12, 2018, 06:54:54 AM »
Cool, glad you enjoyed it, not sure which live version you heard but studio version is awesome on it's own.  Not a fan of a lot of his stuff with Deep Purple as a lot of his solos are a bit less tuneful and more technical and jagged at times, he has a very distinctive style.  Just wanted to give you some idea of what he sounded like in more Petrucci mode.  Always felt he was a significant influence and I think JP has cited him as his favourite player in the past although I may be wrong in that.

Gary Moore was an awesome player as well although I was more of a fan of his hard rock/metal era than when he reinvented himself as a blues guitarist.  Not heard enough of either era to properly judge though.

Online mikeyd23

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #103 on: June 12, 2018, 07:24:24 AM »
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

It might be partially a tone thing, he has changed his tone a good bit over the years.

Offline bosk1

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Re: John Petrucci, The Guitarist Discussion
« Reply #104 on: June 12, 2018, 08:36:37 AM »
That being said I wanna share a controversial opinion. I think he lost a bit of his technical skills recently. Listening to footage from recent G3 tour back to back with e.g. G3 2001, it's not as tight and effortless. I guess 6DOIT/ToT era was his peak.

I don't know if that will be super controversial around here - I think with age he is a little less "fluid" of a player. I'd agree that his peak was probably that SDOIT through ToT era - the touring they did to support those records has given us some great sets and some great JP moments.

I agree with this. It might not be age, who knows maybe he practices differently, or less. It could also be his tone, it's changed a lot since ToT

Really?  I think he is much more fluid now.  I was listening to the Old Bridge bootleg recently, and his playing nowadays is MUCH more smooth than back then.
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