W.A.S.P. or Motley Crue?

[WildRanger]

Which band is better to you?

For me WASP by far.

[El Barto]

Easily WASP. I'm not a big fan, but Blackie took pride in what he did and always sought to put out a better product. Crue was never very good and never really tried to be.

[Setlist Scotty]

Despite the lyrics, I easily connected to WASP's music to a far greater degree than I ever could with Motley Crue. So WASP gets the nod from me.

[jjrock88]

I would actually say its pretty even for me.  Maybe the Crue by a notch.

[The Walrus]

Never did like WASP, and although their discography as a whole is horrible, Motley Crue's hits rock - hard - and their '98 Greatest Hits compilation has (almost) everything you need from them, it's only missing a couple songs. So the Crue gets my vote. I just really wish that compilation had Too Young To Fall In Love and Hell On High Heels, but the latter didn't come out until 2000, so, yeah.

[Stadler]

I don't really like either, but like el Barto, I think there is an integrity in Blackie Lawless that Motley lacked.  Plus, Vince Neil.   

[wolfking]

WASP, simply no contest. Never liked MC.

[jingle.boy]

Back in the day, I would've easily answered Crue - somehow W.A.S.P. wasn't on my radar.  Now that I do have some 80s W.A.S.P., I'm not sure.

I don't know jack about anything post-Dr. Feelgood, and I'm not sure I want to!

I'm going with Crue, just cuz I know (proportionately) more of their discog.

[bl5150]

WASP

My most listened to Vince Neil album would probably be the solo album with Steve Stevens.  I could make a great compilation disc of Motley but rarely listen to an album.

[King Puppies and the Acid Guppies]

WASP by a country mile!

[ZirconBlue]

Crue.  They had a lot of sub-standard material, but the good stuff was lightyears ahead of anything I ever heard from WASP. 

[El Barto]

Really surprised by this. I figured WASP would win easily on the popularity of Crimson Idol.

[pg1067]

This is a little like asking who's your favorite Sri Lankan ice hockey player, but I went with Motley Crue simply because I can think of more Crue songs I like than WASP songs.

[jammindude]

Crue is the only band in history to be “the greatest” only because they keep saying so. Never seen a HoF career that was completely based on such overwhelming mediocrity.

WASP should be landsliding this on integrity alone. And ya, they are not without their sellout moments. But Crue’s ENTIRE CAREER was based on pandering to the “image du jour”.

[Setlist Scotty]

Really surprised by this. I figured WASP would win easily on the popularity of Crimson Idol.

I think pg1067 sums it up perfectly - Motley Crue is far more known than WASP ever was, so people are gonna vote based on what they know. Many don't know WASP or very little of it, so Crue automatically gets the vote.

[The Walrus]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

[jingle.boy]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

I think you spelled Kickstart My Heart wrong.

[The Walrus]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

I think you spelled Kickstart My Heart wrong.

I think you misplaced your reading glasses  I love Kickstart My Heart, though. Like I said, that '98 compilation has almost everything you need from the Crue. A couple songs are WTF? like Glitter, but otherwise, yeah, Crue's big songs kick f'ing ass.

[Stadler]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

It's a good song, but I liked Crue slightly better when they ditched the chick singer and hired Vince Neil.   Neil still sucks ass, but  not as much as the girl that sang on the first album.   

[The Walrus]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

It's a good song, but I liked Crue slightly better when they ditched the chick singer and hired Vince Neil.   Neil still sucks ass, but  not as much as the girl that sang on the first album.

  Crue's first album is an abomination. It is really, really bad.

[Lowdz]

I enjoy both. Motley only have three albums I ever listen to (1st, SatD and Dr F).

WASP, I enjoy more albums and the highs are higher too, so went WASP.

[pg1067]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

It's a good song, but I liked Crue slightly better when they ditched the chick singer and hired Vince Neil.   Neil still sucks ass, but  not as much as the girl that sang on the first album.

  Crue's first album is an abomination. It is really, really bad.

I think this is all about perspective and, since Stadler is about my age, I'm a little surprised by his take.  I don't think too many folks outside of Southern California really knew anything about Motley Crue before "Too Young to Fall In Love" broke on MTV.  Although Too Fast for Love was released on Leathür Records in late 1981, it wasn't "widely" released until nearly a year later, and even with that, no one really took notice until "Too Young" broke.  Once that happened, we all went back and bought TFfL and marveled at how raw it was.  Live Wire in particular was HUGE.  In my opinion, the songs on TFfL hold up as well as the SatD songs, but pretty much everything starting with Theatre of Pain was garbage right out of the box.  Theatre was one of the most disappointing album buys for me, and I never even bought anything after that.

Rightly or wrongly, WASP came across as a bit of a Motley Crue copycat band that never reached the same level of success but which followed a similar trajectory.  The debut album (and particularly "I Wanna Be Somebody") was big.  Everyone had heard of "Animal (Fuck Like a Best)," but it was really hard to find a copy.  Last Command did pretty well, and I mostly lost interest after that.

[TAC]

I'm kind of with pg here. I actually don't have an opinion either way TBH.

If I'm drafting the albums, I go:

1. Too Fast For Love
2. Shout At The Devil
3. WASP s/t
4. The Electric Circus
5. The Last Command
6. Dr. Feelgood


There's nothing else from either band that interests me.

[cramx3]

Really surprised by this. I figured WASP would win easily on the popularity of Crimson Idol.

I think pg1067 sums it up perfectly - Motley Crue is far more known than WASP ever was, so people are gonna vote based on what they know. Many don't know WASP or very little of it, so Crue automatically gets the vote.

Probably my case.  I know little of WASP, but on the contrary to most here, I actually really like Motley Crue.  Well, at least their greatest hits album.   It's really awesome IMO.  They've got some really great songs.  I'm not sure WASP could touch that for me.  Maybe, but the Crue are one of my favorites from the 80s.  And sure, they are a bunch of assholes, but that was kind of that era.

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

I think you spelled Kickstart My Heart wrong.

Two amazing songs 

[Lowdz]

I'm kind of with pg here. I actually don't have an opinion either way TBH.

If I'm drafting the albums, I go:

1. Too Fast For Love
2. Shout At The Devil
3. WASP s/t
4. The Electric Circus
5. The Last Command
6. Dr. Feelgood


There's nothing else from either band that interests me.

Have you tried Crimson Idol Tim?

[Stadler]

Crue might be douchey to the max but Too Young To Fall In Love will always be one of the best rock songs ever. 

It's a good song, but I liked Crue slightly better when they ditched the chick singer and hired Vince Neil.   Neil still sucks ass, but  not as much as the girl that sang on the first album.

  Crue's first album is an abomination. It is really, really bad.

I think this is all about perspective and, since Stadler is about my age, I'm a little surprised by his take.  I don't think too many folks outside of Southern California really knew anything about Motley Crue before "Too Young to Fall In Love" broke on MTV.  Although Too Fast for Love was released on Leathür Records in late 1981, it wasn't "widely" released until nearly a year later, and even with that, no one really took notice until "Too Young" broke.  Once that happened, we all went back and bought TFfL and marveled at how raw it was.  Live Wire in particular was HUGE.  In my opinion, the songs on TFfL hold up as well as the SatD songs, but pretty much everything starting with Theatre of Pain was garbage right out of the box.  Theatre was one of the most disappointing album buys for me, and I never even bought anything after that.

Rightly or wrongly, WASP came across as a bit of a Motley Crue copycat band that never reached the same level of success but which followed a similar trajectory.  The debut album (and particularly "I Wanna Be Somebody") was big.  Everyone had heard of "Animal (Fuck Like a Best)," but it was really hard to find a copy.  Last Command did pretty well, and I mostly lost interest after that.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this.  I might push back on Live Wire being "huge", but generally you're spot on.  But to add more perspective - too much fucking perspective! - Crue didn't rock the world like Guns and Roses did.   Twisted Sister had a similar trajectory with Under The Blade - rough, raw album that was re-released later with more polish - on the east coast. 

But remember what came out in and around the Crue debut:  Scorpions Blackout, Rainbow Straight Between The Eyes, Maiden Number of the Beast, Screaming For Vengeance, Back In Black, High 'n' Dry, Rush was coming off Moving Pictures and changing the world with Signals, Thriller was the REAL hot item on MTV, and Ozzy was coming off Diary and dealing with the loss of Randy Rhoads.  Honestly?  On the east coast?   Crue was a novelty.  I know my buddy and I - best friend, concert buddy, band member, etc. - was into relatively obscure stuff:  he bought the new Heaven album, Krokus, Dokken Breaking the Chains, and Crue, and I bought the latest from England, High 'n' Dry, Number of the Beast, Screaming..., and Under The Blade (Twisted was from NY, but famously went to England to break then came back).   

Crue was more than a one hit wonder, but they weren't at the level of the big guns, not then, and for me, not now.   They were the west coast Twisted Sister to me. 

[TAC]

  On the east coast?   Crue was a novelty.  I know my buddy and I - best friend, concert buddy, band member, etc. - was into relatively obscure stuff:  he bought the new Heaven album, Krokus, Dokken Breaking the Chains, and Crue, and I bought the latest from England, High 'n' Dry, Number of the Beast, Screaming..., and Under The Blade (Twisted was from NY, but famously went to England to break then came back).   

Crue was more than a one hit wonder, but they weren't at the level of the big guns, not then, and for me, not now.   They were the west coast Twisted Sister to me.

Honestly, I don't remember you. But you're basically describing me.

I had the Heaven albums. And Krokus definitely.

Have you tried Crimson Idol Tim?

I have. It just doesn't grab me. The only reason I even like the first couple WASP albums is that I was 14/15 when they came out. There is just so much better music out there than WASP.

I had a nice Spotify listen on Golgotha when it came out and I bought it. Haven't listened to it since.

[WildRanger]

But remember what came out in and around the Crue debut:  Scorpions Blackout, Rainbow Straight Between The Eyes, Maiden Number of the Beast, Screaming For Vengeance, Back In Black, High 'n' Dry, Rush was coming off Moving Pictures and changing the world with Signals, Thriller was the REAL hot item on MTV, and Ozzy was coming off Diary and dealing with the loss of Randy Rhoads.  Honestly?  On the east coast?   Crue was a novelty. 

You forgot Van Halen and their great record from 1981 Fair Warning (favorite among VH fans, closely after the debut).

[pg1067]

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this.  I might push back on Live Wire being "huge", but generally you're spot on.  But to add more perspective - too much fucking perspective! - Crue didn't rock the world like Guns and Roses did.   Twisted Sister had a similar trajectory with Under The Blade - rough, raw album that was re-released later with more polish - on the east coast. 

....

Crue was more than a one hit wonder, but they weren't at the level of the big guns, not then, and for me, not now.   They were the west coast Twisted Sister to me.

Twisted Sister is another good example.  Broke big with a video on MTV.  With Crue, it was a song from the second album; with TS, it was a song from the third album.  When those songs broke, everyone bought Shout and Stay Hungry and then went back and "discovered" the earlier albums.  Crue was bigger on the west coast, and I imagine TS was bigger where you grew up.  Interestingly, Too Young to Fall in Love and We're Not Gonna Take It were released three days apart in April 1984 (and I assume the videos premiered in close temporal proximity as well).  Crue was already a bit well known out here because of their performance at the second US Festival (which I assume wasn't really a thing outside of the Pacific time zone cared about).

But remember what came out in and around the Crue debut:  Scorpions Blackout, Rainbow Straight Between The Eyes, Maiden Number of the Beast, Screaming For Vengeance, Back In Black, High 'n' Dry, Rush was coming off Moving Pictures and changing the world with Signals, Thriller was the REAL hot item on MTV, and Ozzy was coming off Diary and dealing with the loss of Randy Rhoads.  Honestly?  On the east coast?   Crue was a novelty.  I know my buddy and I - best friend, concert buddy, band member, etc. - was into relatively obscure stuff:  he bought the new Heaven album, Krokus, Dokken Breaking the Chains, and Crue, and I bought the latest from England, High 'n' Dry, Number of the Beast, Screaming..., and Under The Blade (Twisted was from NY, but famously went to England to break then came back).

I maintain that the period from approximately 1980 through 1984 (starting around the release of Permanent Waves and ending around the time of Powerslave) had more quality and legendary albums released than any other period in modern music history (at least as far as hard rock/metal is concerned

AC/DC - Back in Black and For Those about to Rock
Accept - Restless and Wild and Balls to the Wall
Pat Benatar - Crimes of Passion and Precious Time
Black Sabbath - Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules and Born Again
Deep Purple - Perfect Strangers
Def Leppard - On through the Night, High 'n' Dry and Pyromania
Dio - Holy Diver and Last in Line
Dokken - Breaking the Chains and Tooth and Nail
Iron Maiden - S/T, Killers, TNotB, Piece of Mind and Powerslave
Judas Priest - British Steel, Screaming for Vengeance and Defenders of the Faith
Kiss - Lick It Up
Krokus - Headhunter
Yngwie Malmsteen - Rising Force
Metallica - Kill 'Em All and Ride the Lightning
MSG - MSG
Motley Crue - Too Fast for Love and Shout at the Devil
Motorhead - Ace of Spades, Iron Fist and No Remorse
Ozzy - Blizzard, Diary and Bark
Queensryche - EP and The Warning
Quiet Riot - Metal Health
Ratt - EP and Out of the Cellar
Rainbow - Difficult to Cure, Straight Between the Eyes and Bent out of Shape
Rush - Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and Signals
Scorpions - Animal Magnetism, Blackout and Love at First Sting
Billy Squier - Don't Say No
38 Special - Wild Eyed Southern Boys and Special Forces
Triumph - Allied Forces, Never Surrender and Thunder Seven
Twisted Sister - You Can't Stop Rock 'n' Roll and Stay Hungry
Van Halen - Women and Children First, Fair Warning, Diver Down and 1984
WASP - S/T
Whitesnake - Slide It In

I tried not to be too west coast-centric and didn't include some stuff that maybe should be on the list (and probably forgot a few), but I tried to avoid anything really obscure (e.g., I was big into Grim Reaper, but they were neither great nor legendary).  I also omitted some "lesser" albums by some of the bands listed (including one that's high on some folks' list for the band in question but which Stadler and I don't like).

[TAC]

Well those are my formative years for sure.

I also maintain that 1981 was the greatest year of music ever.

High n Dry
MSG
The Wild The Willing And The Innocent
Renegade
Diary Of A Madman
Earthshaker
Fire Down Under
Intensities In 10 Cities
Maurauder
Mob Rules
For Those About To Rock
Killers
Fair Warning
Deni & Leather
Moving Pictures
Denim And Leather
Breaker
Difficult To Cure
Fire Of Unknown Origin
Allied Forces
Nature Of the Beast

[jingle.boy]

Deni & Leather

Denim And Leather

So good you had to spell it wrong once, then correct it?

[TAC]

Yeah, couldn't leave it hanging. 

[jingle.boy]

Yeah, couldn't leave it hanging. 

That's what she said.

[Stadler]

Well those are my formative years for sure.

I also maintain that 1981 was the greatest year of music ever.

High n Dry
MSG
The Wild The Willing And The Innocent
Renegade
Diary Of A Madman
Earthshaker
Fire Down Under
Intensities In 10 Cities
Maurauder
Mob Rules
For Those About To Rock
Killers
Fair Warning
Deni & Leather
Moving Pictures
Denim And Leather
Breaker
Difficult To Cure
Fire Of Unknown Origin
Allied Forces
Nature Of the Beast

Word.  The list changes, but there are six albums on there that have the potential to be in my top 25 of all time:

Diary (Top five album)
Killers
Fair Warning
For Those About To Rock
Moving Pictures
High And Dry

And one that you didn't mention:
Don't Say No

Plus, if you stretch out beyond metal:
World's Apart (the only Saga album I really like)
Face Value (In The Fucking Air Tonight, probably the biggest song ever of all time).
Paradise Theater
Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar
No Sleep Till Hammersmith
4 (Foreigner, perhaps their biggest album?)
Tattoo You
Point Of Entry (a top three Priest album for me)
Bucks Fizz. (Haha)
Give The People What They Want
Escape (I'll bet EVERY person here that was born before 1970 has made out to at least one song on that record)
Abacab
The Pressure Is On (Far and away my favorite Hank Williams Jr. record)
Ghost In The Machine
Get Lucky
Shake It Up
October
Physical (Olivia Newton-John; just seeing if you're still with me)
I Love Rock and Roll
Music From... The Elder (not a joke; I love that album).

[jammindude]

And as much as everyone tried to demonize them....you know who made this amazing era possible???


THE RECORD COMPANIES!!!!!!!!!

And trust me, I get that there are pros and cons to this argument and I’m drastically diverting the subject....but the fact is, without the record companies screening and streamlining the best bands to us, we would have had a thousand independent bands to choose from instead of a few dozen of “the best of the best” from which we all had a shared experience...and the shared experience of it all made it even bigger.    In the relative anarchy we have now, artists can’t make money, music comes from a thousand different outlets instead of just a few.   And instead of a giant shared experience, we have tiny pockets of fans from which the bands make a few bucks to supplement their day jobs.