Author Topic: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2018, 09:24:18 AM »
It's very interesting how an album such as And Justice for All by Metallica that had a bad production, lack of bass and chugga chugga heaviness, has sold over 8 million copies in the US, while Overkill by Motorhead hasn't achieved even Gold in sales.
How could be And Justice for All a way more appealing album to the masses of American listeners than any Motorhead album is beyond me really.
Well, I know that everything is relative, and art and art appreciation are subjective.

But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally.  Are there problems with the album?  Of course.  But the songs are gold.  Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.  And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.

But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead.  Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.

If you like Motorhead, great.  There's nothing wrong with liking what you like.  I like some pretty weird shit myself.  But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it. 

*shrugs*
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Offline TAC

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2018, 09:29:17 AM »
Hef, that is actually a great post.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2018, 09:45:11 AM »


But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally.  Are there problems with the album?  Of course.  But the songs are gold.  Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.  And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.

But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead.  Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.

If you like Motorhead, great.  There's nothing wrong with liking what you like.  I like some pretty weird shit myself.  But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it. 

*shrugs*

OK. That's your view. But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.

And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2018, 09:52:43 AM »
I didn't overlook anything.  I just don't care.  I know that Metallica liked Motorhead.  They liked a lot of other stuff that never hit big here either.  That's fine. 

Not sure what you want to hear.  You love Motorhead, and they are bigger in other places than they are here in the U.S.  I like Mr. Big, but they've also always been more popular overseas than here.  It happens.

For me personally, I have tried Motorhead on multiple occasions, but none of their stuff ever appealed to me. 

But again, I'm glad that you like them.
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Offline pg1067

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2018, 10:10:33 AM »
But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.

And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.

Maybe you don't understand the difference between opinion and fact, but of course it's an opinion.  It's also an irrelevant opinion (and I'm not even going to go down the road of "needing" to appreciate a band's influences to truly appreciate that band -- a subject that has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere).  As far as appreciating Motorhead's "place in metal history" (and keeping in mind that Lemmy himself frequently declared Motorhead not to be a "metal" band), I can do that without buying their stuff.  I once owned Orgasmatron, but only because someone bought it for me for Christmas.  I seem to recall also owning No Remorse.  I didn't replace either when I ditched my vinyl records in favor of CDs.

Also, Kill 'Em All didn't sell for shit until Metallica became well-established with AJFA and the Black Album and people went back and bought the back catalog.  And I'd bet big money that a significant percentage of folks who dug AJFA and the Black Album and went back and bought KEA barely ever listen to it because it's nothing like those two or the subsequent crap Metallica put out.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2018, 10:10:57 AM »


But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally.  Are there problems with the album?  Of course.  But the songs are gold.  Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.  And for thrash metal, production was never one of the driving factors of success anyway.

But there is just nothing appealing to me (or, apparently, to Americans in general) about Motorhead.  Lemmy was a shitty singer, and the songs don't stand out as being anything special.

If you like Motorhead, great.  There's nothing wrong with liking what you like.  I like some pretty weird shit myself.  But I don't have any illusions that it's not weird, or wonder why more people don't like it. 

*shrugs*

OK. That's your view. But Metallica would barely exist (as a thrash metal band) if not for Motorhead and that's not an opinion, it's a fact that you overlooked here. If you are a hard rock and metal fan, you don't have to be a Motorhead fan, but you should APPRECIATE their place in metal history. Although Lemmy generally has a "cool guy" image I think his band is really UNDERAPPRECIATED by Americans.

And when it comes to shitty vocals, James Hetfield's vocals on Kill'em All sounded shitty to me. And that debut album went 3 Platinum in the USA. So what. Is everything about vocals? I think not.

So?  REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire".  Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time? 

I you're missing the point a little bit.  It's not JUST about vocals.   It's a general package.  They weren't innovative in rock history, let alone in their period niche, the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal.   "Cool" isn't really enough, and honestly, having been there at the time (I was in high school at the time, and remember buying Number Of The Beast upon release, and saw them as an opening band) Motorhead didn't have that reputation at that time.  Lemmy wasn't the icon that he is now; if anything he was sort of a... not a fuckup exactly, but a fringe player.   Eddie Clarke left in, what, 1982, which was early days in the metal surge in America (Iron Maiden was an opening act in '82, as was Def Leppard).  In fact, I saw Eddie Clarke as a member of Fastway in '83 opening for Maiden on THEIR first North American tour.   

Honestly, rather than being any indictment of America or American audiences, it was as much timing and bad decision-making as anything else.   Plus, that sort of very British metal never really caught on here in general; the Maiden and the Priest that headlined arenas was NOT the same Maiden and Priest that played clubs in Britain.  The Maiden of the first album is NOT the Maiden of "Powerslave", and same with Priest and Screaming.   

EDIT:  To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head.  They are the Shark Island of thrash metal. 

Online cramx3

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2018, 11:40:06 AM »
I, I on the other hand, often wondered why they had any success at all?  :lol j/k but only slightly since I really did never understand the appeal of them

Offline Art

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2018, 11:52:38 AM »
because their songs are all the same?

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2018, 11:57:57 AM »

EDIT:  To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head.  They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.

Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2018, 12:04:55 PM »
because their songs are all the same?

AC/DC ??


Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #45 on: November 27, 2018, 12:08:08 PM »

EDIT:  To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head.  They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.

Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.

I think the question is about breaking through in the U.S.

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #46 on: November 27, 2018, 12:10:20 PM »

So?  REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire".  Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time? 


Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.

Offline Art

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #47 on: November 27, 2018, 12:13:41 PM »
because their songs are all the same?

AC/DC ??

All due respect to Lemmy,but he was incapable of writing anything remotely as catchy as AC/DC. It wasn't his intent, i know, but it makes a huge difference when talking about record sales.

Offline Indiscipline

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #48 on: November 27, 2018, 12:15:04 PM »
WildRanger, I have a very honest question for you. Changing the perspective, have you ever considered what an actually wonderful thing is the way appreciation fluctuates depending on cultures, areas, and eras?

Where's the fun in discussing rock'n'roll if everything succeeded (or blowed) the same way everywhere in any time?

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #49 on: November 27, 2018, 12:41:34 PM »
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.
It was certainly released here in the U.S.  I have seen and heard it.  And it features Child in Time, which kicks ass.  Not really sure what you're talking about here.  And I'm not even much of a fan of Deep Purple.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2018, 12:51:06 PM »

So?  REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire".  Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time? 


Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.

Which, in the States, could easily apply to Motorhead. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2018, 12:52:20 PM »
WildRanger, I have a very honest question for you. Changing the perspective, have you ever considered what an actually wonderful thing is the way appreciation fluctuates depending on cultures, areas, and eras?

Where's the fun in discussing rock'n'roll if everything succeeded (or blowed) the same way everywhere in any time?

Heck, that even happens here WITHIN the U.S.   Ask Sammy Hagar.  Or Twisted Sister. 

Offline pg1067

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2018, 01:45:09 PM »

EDIT:  To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head.  They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.

Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.
Most American rock fans also never heard an album "Deep Purple in Rock" in their life, although that album has a huge impact on anything hard rock and heavy metal.

Out of curiosity, WildRanger, what makes you think you have the slightest clue what "most American rock fans" have and haven't heard of?  You're obviously not American and, if I had to guess, probably aren't more than 25-30 years old at the most, so I really wonder what possesses you to make statements of this sort (which you do with great regularity).

I can assure you that just about everyone in the U.S. who was into rock/heavy rock/metal in the 1970s and 1980s has at least heard of and heard some or all of In Rock.
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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2018, 04:12:10 PM »

EDIT:  To Hef's point, Diamond Head was a far bigger influence on Metallica on Day One than Motorhead, and I venture to say that outside of Metallica fans who own Garage Days, most metal fans have never even HEARD of Diamond Head.  They are the Shark Island of thrash metal.

Well, it depends on where are you from. If you are a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain it's nearly impossible that you've never heard of Diamond Head. But if you are from the US, it's a different thing. I get it.

Wait...what?! I am a metal kid who has been growing up in Britain (along with most of my friends) and trust me, the ONLY reason I've heard of Diamond Head is because of my Metallica obsession and the Garage Days album. Stadler is spot on! I can probably name one metalhead friend I know (I'm not entirely convinced he'd know them), and I have a lot of friends who are well versed in metal bands, who would have the slightest clue who Diamond Head are.

Offline TAC

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2018, 06:10:12 PM »
WildRanger, if you don't mind, could you let is know how old you are and where you are in the world. I apologize if that's too forward, but I'm trying to reconcile some statements in this thread, and I would like to appreciate your POV. But to appreciate it, I think I need a little more background.

I'll go first. I'm 50 and I'm from Boston.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2018, 07:02:31 PM »
WildRanger, if you don't mind, could you let is know how old you are and where you are in the world. I apologize if that's too forward, but I'm trying to reconcile some statements in this thread, and I would like to appreciate your POV. But to appreciate it, I think I need a little more background.

I'll go first. I'm 50 and I'm from Boston.

51 and from Hartford (which is about an hour and a half southwest of Boston).

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2018, 07:04:36 PM »
Stadler is spot on!

Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2018, 07:05:29 PM »
Stadler is spot on!

Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.

Mwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!   

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2018, 07:18:20 PM »

So?  REM wouldn't exist without the band "Wire".  Does that mean that Wire should now be regarded as one of the greats of all time? 


Wire was much more of underground than mainstream band, but they were influential and critically very acclaimed.

Why does it matter if they were critically acclaimed?

Hint: it doesn't.

Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #59 on: November 28, 2018, 12:35:47 AM »
Stadler is spot on!

Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.

Oh I'm well aware. I think I've only been in this position  once before, it really makes me question myself  :lol

Offline Cruithne

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2018, 03:26:15 AM »
I have a Motorhead playlist on Spotify. It has all of 9 songs on it but man are those 9 songs good. It'd have 10 if Inferno was on Spotify...

...I would sum Motorhead up as being a band I like more in theory than I do in practice.

Quote
They weren't innovative in rock history, let alone in their period niche, the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal.   

The double kick in Overkill was innovative. Like Eddie Van Halen being far from the first person to ever tap a fretboard with his right hand Phil Taylor was far from the first person to ever use two kick drums but he was the first person to do it quite like that, or at least is generally credited as being so.

Offline Ruba

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2018, 03:26:43 AM »
It's very interesting how an album such as And Justice for All by Metallica that had a bad production, lack of bass and chugga chugga heaviness, has sold over 8 million copies in the US, while Overkill by Motorhead hasn't achieved even Gold in sales.
How could be And Justice for All a way more appealing album to the masses of American listeners than any Motorhead album is beyond me really.

You'll have to take into account that after Metallica released The Black Album, they really broke through and the demand for their earlier records also increased substantially. I tried quickly looking for how much ...AJFA initially sold, but didn't find anything. Also, ...AJFA had the first Metallica single to chart in US (One #35 on Billboard Hot 100), which probably earned the band a whole heap of new fans.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2018, 07:27:41 AM »


...I would sum Motorhead up as being a band I like more in theory than I do in practice.

That's kind of me, too.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2018, 07:30:58 AM »
Stadler is spot on!

Woah woah woah, them be dangerous words pal! Those words lead to darkness.

Oh I'm well aware. I think I've only been in this position  once before, it really makes me question myself  :lol

You know how Chris Squire (Yes) and Jon Lord (Deep Purple) and Ben Orr (The Cars) didn't get to see their induction into the RnRHoF?   That's going to be me in this forum.   You guys are going to look back and say "Wow, that dude Stadler... that m-----f----- had it right more often than not.  He was good looking, too." 

Okay, I just threw that last part in there, but you get my point.   :)  :)  :)  :)  :) 

Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2018, 09:47:36 AM »

But AJFA is a moment in time capturing a band that is largely regarded as the greatest metal band of all time at the height of their powers, both playing and compositionally.  Are there problems with the album?  Of course.  But the songs are gold.  Frankly, IMO if the album had the production of the Black Album, it would be one of the greatest of all time.

Would you explain me this? I know that 80's Metallica is widely considered as ONE OF the greatest metal bands. I can't deny it. But the greatest? Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden and Judas Priest beg to differ.




Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2018, 10:04:16 AM »
Nah, if you look at album sales, ticket sales and their success (within the genre and in the mainstream) then Metallica are where it's at.

I'd imagine Metallica have made more money, though album sales and live shows, than any other metal band. I wouldn't even think it's close. Also The Black Album is probably considered THE crossover metal album. That might just be my opinion but it's one that a lot of others would share.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2018, 10:07:25 AM »
Maiden is in the conversation, for sure.  But whether we are talking "THE biggest band" or "one of a VERY small handful of the biggest bands" doesn't really matter.  That's beside the point and doesn't really have ANYTHING to do with what is being discussed here about Motorhead.
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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2018, 10:12:36 AM »
Discussing something to death, that is irrelevant to the thread, is what this great forum is built on  :lol

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2018, 10:14:09 AM »
Why does it matter that Motorhead didn't make it huge? You like them, what else matters?

Pain of Salvation is my favorite band. Do I care, at all, that almost no one in America knows who they are? Nah. I like them. I don't need more than that.
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Offline WildRanger

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Re: Why Motorhead haven't achieved any commercial success in the USA?
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2018, 10:18:21 AM »
Nah, if you look at album sales, ticket sales and their success (within the genre and in the mainstream) then Metallica are where it's at.

I'd imagine Metallica have made more money, though album sales and live shows, than any other metal band. I wouldn't even think it's close. Also The Black Album is probably considered THE crossover metal album. That might just be my opinion but it's one that a lot of others would share.

It depends on what "the greatest metal band" means. It could mean the biggest (the most popular) or the best.